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Ridiculous half-baked expert advice

BigBlusterBigBluster Member Posts: 1,075
edited March 2012 in Poker Chat
I sometimes wonder what planet the 'expert' analysts are on?
Recent example:
Our hero makes an all-in bet of 2000 when the blinds are 10/20. He has AK.

Our 'expert' studio analysts say that it's a definite calll with QQ for an extra 1800.

Anyone who claims that this is a half-decent play is talking out of the back of his head. Yet the 'MTT experts'(including most of the top name players on Sky Poker!) I've just been watching on 865 say that this is 100% the correct play. Complete and utter rubbish.

Most of the 'experts' are cash-game players and generally clueless about MTTs.

BB
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Comments

  • Poker_FailPoker_Fail Member Posts: 1,755
    edited March 2012
    You wouldn't call a 100BB open shove with QQ?
  • goldnballzgoldnballz Member Posts: 2,821
    edited March 2012
    Of course u call with QQ, because its soooooooo unlikely that he is ever doing this with AA/KK, the only 2 hands we dont wana see.
  • DazlerDazler Member Posts: 3,970
    edited March 2012
    seriously its upto the player and who there playing against. How many people shove pre with rubbish on here like a Rag A and beat your pk Ks 9 times out of 10 first hand. If its an MTT and is the start of the torny you may take advantage of the situation and get a quick double up from the donks so nothing wrong with a call or a fold. No right or wrong with this scenario. No guts No Glory.
  • Curt360x27Curt360x27 Member Posts: 490
    edited March 2012
    As above really if someone is shoving that many BB there not really gonna be the greatest player and there gonna turn up with a lot worse than QQ most of the time and if they have you crushed or bink so be it move on to the next tourney. simples.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Ridiculous half-baked expert advice:
    I sometimes wonder what planet the 'expert' analysts are on? Recent example: Our hero makes an all-in bet of 2000 when the blinds are 10/20. He has AK. Our 'expert' studio analysts say that it's a definite calll with QQ for an extra 1800. Anyone who claims that this is a half-decent play is talking out of the back of his head. Yet the 'MTT experts'(including most of the top name players on Sky Poker!) I've just been watching on 865 say that this is 100% the correct play. Complete and utter bollux. Most of the 'experts' are cash-game players and generally clueless about MTTs. BB
    Posted by BigBluster
    I don't usually get upset with people on these forums but if you're going to call the analysts on Sky Poker "half-baked" I think you'd better have the results to back it up... It doesn't take much for even the rank and file members of the forum to discredit your assertion on this so I don't think you have a leg to stand on. If you disagree with something an analyst, or anyone else, has said then make your argument and see if your logic stands up to scrutiny. Don't insult people.
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited March 2012
    1) Admittedly, I agree that it wouldn't be a snap call in the example you provided (IMO, it's pretty marginal). However, disagreeing with the analysts on the channel on one point is nowhere near enough reason to dismiss their advice as "ridiculous" and "half-baked". No two people play the game in the same way, and we're not all going to agree on everything.

    2) Before I watched the Sky Poker channel, all I knew about Poker was hand rankings. I'm now a winning player, and 99% of the stuff I know about Poker is thanks to the Sky Poker channel. So if you ever wanted it, I'm very good evidence that the advice on the channel is actually pretty solid.

    3) If the channel were to start giving out bad advice, then isn't that the greatest thing in the world for you as a Poker Player if a large amount of people on the site are making the same mistakes as a result and could be exploited in the same way? Complaining about bad advice (if that was actually the case) wouldn't be tapping the tank, it'd be smashing the glass with a sledgehammer.
  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan Member Posts: 2,756
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Ridiculous half-baked expert advice:
    I sometimes wonder what planet the 'expert' analysts are on? Recent example: Our hero makes an all-in bet of 2000 when the blinds are 10/20. He has AK. Our 'expert' studio analysts say that it's a definite calll with QQ for an extra 1800. Anyone who claims that this is a half-decent play is talking out of the back of his head. Yet the 'MTT experts'(including most of the top name players on Sky Poker!) I've just been watching on 865 say that this is 100% the correct play. Complete and utter bollux. Most of the 'experts' are cash-game players and generally clueless about MTTs. BB
    Posted by BigBluster
    What was the tournament?

    Assuming it's a standard six-max MTT*, with a 100bb starting stack, I'm calling with QQ in that spot 100% of the time.

    I guarantee the vast majority of tournament pros and "MTT experts" would say the same.


    (* We're not talking about the WSOP Main Event here!  Tournament survival is NOT an issue.)

  • TalonTalon Member Posts: 1,621
    edited March 2012
       Poker is a very strange game and can be played in so many different ways and is so.

      Although there are some things that can be considered wrong and definitely against all the mathematics and common sense availbale. It is still possible however for 4 people to play a hand in 4 different ways and yet they can still all be right. A players opinion on how to play a hand is exactly what it says their opinion.

      To disagree with someones opinion is perfectly fine because that then is your opinion. This however does not automatically make them wrong.Also just because you disagree with someone it does not make you automatically right. It is easily possible for both you and them to be right in this situation. And it does not give anyone the right to criticise another persons opinion just because there exists a difference of opinion.

      You clearly have your opinion on this scenario and it is one that is worth hearing because all players opinion have merit even if you choose to act differently than they suggest. But i am afraid with this thread you have lost the audience with starting by criticising other players for their opinion instead of just giving a well wordrd and thought out arguement against it.
  • bigal36903bigal36903 Member Posts: 1,011
    edited March 2012
    for me at the start of a tourny, it depends how my day has gone so far, if i am losing flips, then instant fold. i prefer to shove even with QQ..

    if i was running good and my pairs were holding.. then an instant call.... it does depend who it is against and wot notes you have on the player. if lets say Aussie09 instant call, but 18and5times deffo fold..

    the situation depends on who the players is and how u have run (if u have played) before..


    to state that the experts are half baked is not on really. they are cash players and they themselves have ade bad calls and good calls..

    it depends on wot the tourny is and who you are against
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Ridiculous half-baked expert advice:
    I sometimes wonder what planet the 'expert' analysts are on? Recent example: Our hero makes an all-in bet of 2000 when the blinds are 10/20. He has AK. Our 'expert' studio analysts say that it's a definite calll with QQ for an extra 1800. Anyone who claims that this is a half-decent play is talking out of the back of his head. Yet the 'MTT experts'(including most of the top name players on Sky Poker!) I've just been watching on 865 say that this is 100% the correct play. Complete and utter bollux. Most of the 'experts' are cash-game players and generally clueless about MTTs. BB
    Posted by BigBluster
    1. I would think in most tournaments against most players it would be a call

    2. Post action properly, for example did QQ guy open 10x or has it gone bet/3bet or what

    3. Depending on above it might be possible to consider folding. But at least post your reasoning rather than just describing other peoples as "bollux".

    4. I would think this early in most mtts difference between optimal cash and tournament strategy is probably pretty small
  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited March 2012

    Yup constructive criticism is fine, but blatant insults are not Mr Bluster

    If you could do a better job then you would be in the studio.

    As for calling an all in with QQ early in a standard sky mtt, im doing it every day of the week (unless I have sik reads and i somehow find my fold button- rare these days). Whether that is "right" or "wrong" iyo i frankly don't care.

  • jonjo75jonjo75 Member Posts: 999
    edited March 2012
    In a £20 MTT i am never folding QQ in that situation, the chance to double up early and use those extra chips to win more is way to appealing .
    The situation has not been explained though did the guy with QQ open raise to 10xBB and then get shoved on or was there a min raise to 40, then a reraise to 100 then a 4bet to 200 then a 5bet all-in ,makes a difference but still not folding.

    Not many people are agreeing with you here but of course you have youre opinion but why should you be  more right than anyone else.
  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited March 2012
    Snap call obv. 
  • spornybolspornybol Member Posts: 8,212
    edited March 2012
    I BELIEVE I`M QUOTE-ING TIKAY HERE, IF WE ALL PLAYED THE SAME THE GAME WOULD BE BORING.
  • DazlerDazler Member Posts: 3,970
    edited March 2012
    I think you would of had a better argument if you explained the hand more, if you have an all in by one player pre then instant call IMO if it was all in then another all in before you act then prob instant fold. If you yourself gave advice to instant fold pk Qs with only one other player which you are it seems. people may call you half baked and im sure you wouldnt like that would you.

    Give more info about your view before saying if its right or wrong and do it in a constructive way to let people on the forum debate it and the analysts to explain in more detail to you if you ask the question instead of insulting them. What makes you an expert in this anyways are you a PRO!!!? like them!!!

    Also you say they just know about cash and nothing about MTT im sure this is more of an insult than saying they are half baked, im sure if you asked them how they got to be on an analyst on a poker show they didnt just do it by playing cash games and know a lot more about MTTs then you persive they do.

    If you know so much would you enlighten us to your experience of big mtt wins as we have no proof of your skill in this matter.
  • sikassikas Member Posts: 857
    edited March 2012
    if u have a big edge over the field maybe u can find a fold, but if u have little/no edge over the rest of the players take the flip!
  • utopian9utopian9 Member Posts: 27
    edited March 2012


    I do not think it is an obvious call, I don't think anything in poker is?, it may be an obvious call for some/most people,but that does'nt mean it's right.Nothing in poker is ' set in stone ', but when you rant about the experts et al, what you do get is, a ' circling of the wagons ', I wonder if your username has anything to do with it?.
  • DoooobsDoooobs Member Posts: 243
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Ridiculous half-baked expert advice:

    It looks like terrible poker all round.  Have we really 10x'd QQ?  This looks face up to be exploited by the fella with AA.  Fold and open 3x next time. 
  • bigal36903bigal36903 Member Posts: 1,011
    edited March 2012
    In Response to Re: Ridiculous half-baked expert advice:
    In Response to Re: Ridiculous half-baked expert advice : It looks like terrible poker all round.  Have we really 10x'd QQ?  This looks face up to be exploited by the fella with AA.  Fold and open 3x next time. 
    Posted by Doooobs
    well said .. it depends who the player is....
  • Donut64Donut64 Member Posts: 2,666
    edited March 2012
     If I could see their cards face up I would not call for a race!

     As I cant and know they could well have jj 10/10 and lower pairs in some cases at lower levels plus AQ, AJ and again any rag Aces in some cases! If its Dohhhhhhh it well could be 84 off!

     All the odds say Im more likely to be ahead than behind so it looks like a good chance to double up early to me!

     I have also seen on many occasions people push all-in with any 2 suited!
     
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