In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : I'm understand this is standard but something being standard does not equate to correct. I would state I am in no way trolling Tommy. I understand your points but still disagree with a players power of veto. Regardless this person seems to conduct themselves well and in the grand scheme of things who cares:). This no matter what is said is my opinion and I shall not be changing it (any time soon lol), but it is not the end of the world. Regardless we all think differently so have a good one. Posted by Archangel
I understand your point Archangel, but as I have stated the Player/Mod situation has existed for most of the time that the forum has existed... and it works.
The Mods are here to assist Sky Poker, not to replace them. There is a constant dialog between the Mods and the people at Sky Poker who control the site and the forum. Any decisions regarding an individual's conduct on either the tables or the forum is discussed at length and the final decision , in serious situations, rest firmly in the hands of Sky Poker.
As I said the Mods are here to assist Sky in maintaining the Forum as a place where like minded individuals , with a love of Poker, can discuss any manner of subjects related to the game.
I hope I have put your mind at ease but rest assured if you have any issues with any actions from the Mods, please feel free to PM me or any of the others Mods to discuss
In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : To be clear once more Jock I am not attacking Tommy(nor do you say I am) moreover nor condoling naming or shaming. I just disagree with players as mods that is all. As stated this is not the end of the world. I have seen many mods abuse their power, I am sure said player is the last person on Earth to do so. It's a big world we can all think differently. Monday blues for the win. Anyone entitled to their own opinion can reply but that's it for me on this subject. Be well. Posted by Archangel
No issues at all with your posts Archangel, it was a well structured and reasoned point. It would be an incredibly boring world if we all thought the same way. Healthy debate is a key to the success of any forum, which is exactly what we have here.
In Response to Slowroll thread : Hi TommyD. I was the original poster and would like my right of reply. For a start I was unaware that Naming a person in your thread wasn't allowed, Secondly it was not my intention to 'Shame' the person, it was simply to see what other peoples opinion was. Thirdly how would it be possible to provide proof? Hand history would not help and unless the hand was shown on tv you would not be able to see how long the person concerned took. Also by showing the hand on tv to prove my so called 'Accusation' you would essentially be 'Naming and Shaming'. On your point that the 'Claims' were unsubstantiated, 3 other players from the site posted on the thread almost immediately that the same player has done the same to them and they had it saved in their notes. Finally on your point that it was boring, I didn't know that your opinion on the relevance or your interest in a post was grounds for removal. If that is the case then maybe you should be deleting many more posts. I also think that in a case such as this it would be common courtesy to notify the original poster that their thread has been deleted and the reasoning behind it. It is not as if the thread was offensive or contained foul and abusive language. If I had been notified that I was in the wrong for naming the person I would have ammended my thread to leave the opponent with annonimity. As you can clearly see from this post, I have reffered to the opponent as a person, therefore not giving away their gender let alone their username. Best wishes. Shaun the Villa fan in Bham Posted by shaun84
Hi Shaun
1) The naming and shaming rule is a bit of a blind spot for a lot of forum users. Some forums allow it and other deliver insta-bans for people breaking it. It can also be applied inconsistently as the decision is by it's very nature subjective. It's completely understandable you would not know this rule and I take that point totally.
2) I disagree with your comment that the thread was not an attempt to shame the person. The thread title was '(player name) what's the point?' It was directly an accusation of slow rolling by a specific player and encouragement of other people's experiences with that player, not a start of a discussion on the matter of slow rolling as a whole. This is of course my opinion.
3) It is near impossible to provide proof of such a slowroll. This does not change the fact you had no proof.
4) You quote the other posts agreeing with you. Again they had no proof or evidence. We don't know if the player in question: Heavily cross site/single site multi tables; has a slow connection; is a slow player and double checks their hands before making a decision; is exceptionally cautious to the point of 'nit-rolling.' At no point in your post did you say they did one of the more clear indications of a slowroll, i.e. typing something in the chat box before calling. You are just linking slow call with slow roll without anything else. This is not always the case and no one else brought anything other than this or any argument against the other possible reasons I have detailed above.
5) My boredom comment. Luckily my level of interest is not a significant factor when I make a decision on post deletion. However this forum is meant to be for entertainment and for education. Your thread was pure dogma and added nothing to the forum.
6) It was far too late to ask you to edit the post. You put the player name in the thread title and this filtered into every reply, plus many of the replies had the player name in them. It was beyond editing. Previously some Mods on this forum have deleted posts without an explanation on the forum which often leads to a second thread saying 'what happened to that thread?' I have made this thread to not only allow a budding discussion on slowrolling which was in that thread to continue but to give you and everyone else an explanation as to the reason for deletion. This also gives you a right to reply and you know which Mod deleted it. When I took up the offer to become a mod I decided I would act with complete transparency and offer open communication on things like this. Should I have PMed you as well? Maybe and I will consider that for the future. However I have offered you an explanation in the public domain just as your thread was in the public domain. If you feel I have acted inappropriately please feel free to PM me or post here but let's not over run the forum with a never ending discussion. For this reason if you have detailed points to make solely for me I would rather do it in PMs but I don't mind either way.
You mention common courtesy, did you PM the player who was the subject of your thread about your intention to post it and did you allow them time to respond to you and give you their explanation? Slowrolling is, in my opinion, second only to allegations of cheating when it comes to an accusation's severity. I detest slowrollers and slowrolling. The stigma is so strong that I really believe no one should be accused of it without complete and utter proof, mud sticks and bad names are exceptionally hard to shake. Out of respect and courtesy for that player the thread had to be deleted.
Threads get deleted, people make ill judged posts. I feel your thread was ill judged but it doesn't take away from my opinion of you as a poster and as far as I am concerned the matter is dealt with with no prejudice for the future.
Your posts were very fair and I know no offense was meant and certainly none was taken. Users become Mods on forums the web over and this has been the case on every forum I have been a part of since the web first began. Which is a lot of fourms.
I am the newest Mod to the team and I'm sure I'll find out very soon if I'm any good at it. You bring up a very good point about some Mods letting power go to their head, I've seen this happen on other forums and I am very conscious of not letting that either happen to me or for the perception of that having happened to occur. I'm sure I will find out in the future if I am successful at this.
FWIW as a Mod, Tommy was wholy correct in his decision to delete the original thread, I was actually in the process of PMing the OP and sending emails to the rest of the mods and relevant sky peeps to do exactly the same thing.
One point Tommy raises is that the number of replies quoting the OP made it impossible to edit, i'll also add that as "mods" we have no ability to edit posts other than the OP in a thread, and I think this is where some users think we are being heavy handed at times.
So does anyone remember when this was a thread about slow-rolling?
I can't stand it but with a 15 second clock, it's not really possible. Seen it done on Stars a few times with a 20 second clock and using up 59 seconds of the time bank before calling and showing AA. Never suffered from it live but that might be because I'm 6'2" and probably wouldn't be high on their list of people they want to upset.
So does anyone remember when this was a thread about slow-rolling? I can't stand it but with a 15 second clock, it's not really possible. Seen it done on Stars a few times with a 20 second clock and using up 59 seconds of the time bank before calling and showing AA. Never suffered from it live but that might be because I'm 6'2" and probably wouldn't be high on their list of people they want to upset. Posted by BorinLoner
I agree with everything you say....... and everything you're about to say...... and anything you might have said. Think I've covered my bases there ;o)
I was once slow rolled , live, by a guy who had flopped Quad Kings... In fairness he was drunk... had never played Poker before.... didn't know he had won..... and he shouted Bingo when he put the cards down.... Does this still class as a slow roll :O)
so really a mod is like a community officer (pcso). they get a title, work long hrs for naff all and put up with drunken yobs, but really are wanna be policemen with very little power :-)
My favourite slow-roll story was when I called from the big blind with 10sJs and flopped a straight flush. An uber aggressive player that had been giving me verbal shoved all-in and Posted by bandini
LOL
(Actually went to next page to see if it picked up :P)
so really a mod is like a community officer (pcso). they get a title, work long hrs for naff all and put up with drunken yobs, but really are wanna be policemen with very little power :-) Posted by pod1
In Response to Re: Slowroll thread : We don't even get a uniform or day-glow vests. Posted by Machka
Do you not? thats very unfair,because you do deserve them, all that do gooding and no uniform. I will complain to Customer Services on your behalf, keep up the good work.
Hi all I have deleted the thread that has appeared here today accusing someone of slowrolling. 1) This is against forum rules to 'name and shame' 2) You provided no proof other than your accusation. 3) These claims were unsubstantiated. 4) It was very boring. I have set this thread up if people want to continue a discussion on how bad slowrolling is. If anyone names the person accused in the previous thread that post will be snap deleted. And i shall be quite cross. Grrr. Posted by TommyD
I have just read the 'Community Guidelines' and see that no where does it say that you can't name a player that you have played against. It even says that when using a Hand History you can leave the players name in as long as you don't call them names. I treated the opponent with full respect and didn't post any defamatory remarks about them. I assume you have also read these 'Guidelines' and if you still think my post broke the rules I'd like to know which one.
Comments
1) The naming and shaming rule is a bit of a blind spot for a lot of forum users. Some forums allow it and other deliver insta-bans for people breaking it. It can also be applied inconsistently as the decision is by it's very nature subjective. It's completely understandable you would not know this rule and I take that point totally.
2) I disagree with your comment that the thread was not an attempt to shame the person. The thread title was '(player name) what's the point?' It was directly an accusation of slow rolling by a specific player and encouragement of other people's experiences with that player, not a start of a discussion on the matter of slow rolling as a whole. This is of course my opinion.
3) It is near impossible to provide proof of such a slowroll. This does not change the fact you had no proof.
4) You quote the other posts agreeing with you. Again they had no proof or evidence. We don't know if the player in question: Heavily cross site/single site multi tables; has a slow connection; is a slow player and double checks their hands before making a decision; is exceptionally cautious to the point of 'nit-rolling.' At no point in your post did you say they did one of the more clear indications of a slowroll, i.e. typing something in the chat box before calling. You are just linking slow call with slow roll without anything else. This is not always the case and no one else brought anything other than this or any argument against the other possible reasons I have detailed above.
5) My boredom comment. Luckily my level of interest is not a significant factor when I make a decision on post deletion. However this forum is meant to be for entertainment and for education. Your thread was pure dogma and added nothing to the forum.
6) It was far too late to ask you to edit the post. You put the player name in the thread title and this filtered into every reply, plus many of the replies had the player name in them. It was beyond editing. Previously some Mods on this forum have deleted posts without an explanation on the forum which often leads to a second thread saying 'what happened to that thread?' I have made this thread to not only allow a budding discussion on slowrolling which was in that thread to continue but to give you and everyone else an explanation as to the reason for deletion. This also gives you a right to reply and you know which Mod deleted it. When I took up the offer to become a mod I decided I would act with complete transparency and offer open communication on things like this. Should I have PMed you as well? Maybe and I will consider that for the future. However I have offered you an explanation in the public domain just as your thread was in the public domain. If you feel I have acted inappropriately please feel free to PM me or post here but let's not over run the forum with a never ending discussion. For this reason if you have detailed points to make solely for me I would rather do it in PMs but I don't mind either way.
You mention common courtesy, did you PM the player who was the subject of your thread about your intention to post it and did you allow them time to respond to you and give you their explanation? Slowrolling is, in my opinion, second only to allegations of cheating when it comes to an accusation's severity. I detest slowrollers and slowrolling. The stigma is so strong that I really believe no one should be accused of it without complete and utter proof, mud sticks and bad names are exceptionally hard to shake. Out of respect and courtesy for that player the thread had to be deleted.
Threads get deleted, people make ill judged posts. I feel your thread was ill judged but it doesn't take away from my opinion of you as a poster and as far as I am concerned the matter is dealt with with no prejudice for the future.
Your posts were very fair and I know no offense was meant and certainly none was taken. Users become Mods on forums the web over and this has been the case on every forum I have been a part of since the web first began. Which is a lot of fourms.
I am the newest Mod to the team and I'm sure I'll find out very soon if I'm any good at it. You bring up a very good point about some Mods letting power go to their head, I've seen this happen on other forums and I am very conscious of not letting that either happen to me or for the perception of that having happened to occur. I'm sure I will find out in the future if I am successful at this.
None of us want to delete threads.
I can't stand it but with a 15 second clock, it's not really possible. Seen it done on Stars a few times with a 20 second clock and using up 59 seconds of the time bank before calling and showing AA. Never suffered from it live but that might be because I'm 6'2" and probably wouldn't be high on their list of people they want to upset.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iQ2lg7hswM&feature=related
Well worthy of the title of Mod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkajWS65VwY&feature=related
(Actually went to next page to see if it picked up :P)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_%28subculture%29