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Mastercash 50p -£1

bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
edited April 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Hey guys hand from my master cash table last night i bad aces in the bb and reraised to £12 evilbingo then reraises me i clicked it back he folded.  To you think there is a case for smooth calling his 4 bet as when i click it back to him it looks so strong?





Randy76
Sit out        
Wayne_B73 Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £202.65
bearlyther Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £100.00
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • A
     
POKEY2011 Fold        
ST220 Call   £1.00 £2.50 £46.85
EvilPingu Raise   £4.00 £6.50 £194.50
Wayne_B73 Fold        
bearlyther Raise   £11.00 £17.50 £89.00
ST220 Fold        
EvilPingu Raise   £24.00 £41.50 £170.50
bearlyther Raise   £32.00 £73.50 £57.00
EvilPingu Fold        
bearlyther Muck        
bearlyther Win   £57.50   £114.50
bearlyther Return   £16.00 £0.00 £130.50
«13

Comments

  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2012
    Yeah, min-5-betting here really turns your hand face up. If you call his 4-bet, he will c-bet most flops when you check it to him so you can get alot more value. I certainly think that's a better line against an aggressive player like EvilPingu. Otherwise you're just hoping that he has the very top of what is a very wide range. He probably folds to your 5-bet with about 90% of his button 4-betting range.

    By the way, EvilPingu is a very good player and a big contributor to the forum. Maybe you should reconsider calling him EvilBingo. He's alot better than that.
  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited April 2012
    Yes i agree with your logic that i get much more value in this spot by smooth calling the 4 bet.  The reason for clicking it back was because i thought evilpingu was really strong here with the 4 bet as he would flat here with a lot of strong hands such as 1010 jj in position
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2012
    He might just call your 3-bet with JJ or TT but he would frequently 4-bet with... well any two cards really. His range is very wide so we need to make a play that exploits a large portion of his range, rather than a small portion of it. Your 5-bet only gets called or re-raised by QQ or better but those hands are only a tiny proportion of his 4-betting range. Against a tight player the 5-bet is fine but not against EvilPingu.

    Also, I hate the size of the 5-bet. If you were 5-betting without the goods you would never make it a min-raise, so this raise size really narrows your range down to probably only AA, KK or QQ.
  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited April 2012
    Yes i agree with what you have said after thinking about my hand is basically turned up with by bet size i was basically just thinking at the time il click it back so he may think i can fold.  Thanks for the advise
  • elldixon18elldixon18 Member Posts: 64
    edited April 2012
    ''He might just call your 3-bet with JJ or TT but he would frequently 4-bet with... well any two cards really. His range is very wide so we need to make a play that exploits a large portion of his range, rather than a small portion of it. Your 5-bet only gets called or re-raised by QQ or better but those hands are only a tiny proportion of his 4-betting range. Against a tight player the 5-bet is fine but not against EvilPingu.

    Also, I hate the size of the 5-bet. If you were 5-betting without the goods you would never make it a min-raise, so this raise size really narrows your range down to probably only AA.''


    FYP ;)

    to O.P...
    How are you playing 100NL?? - this is basics!!!
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited April 2012
    EvilBingo isn't too far off tbh - besides, I've been called worse.

    Might have shoved if I knew the flop was going to be 777, but despite flopping quads, I would've been worried about my 2 kicker. It would've come a 7 on the river ofc and I would've been outkicked... Rigged nonsense innit.

    BTW... how often am I 4-betting then checking the flop?
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2012
    lolz if evilBINGO had a hand then would not be folding once he 4 bet - shame he didn't have a hand )

    flatting the 4 bet would have been nice though if you know oppo is capable of 4 betting with ______________
    check flop and over and collect from the ATM )
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Mastercash 50p -£1:
    'to O.P... How are you playing 100NL?? - this is basics!!!
    Posted by elldixon18
    Open limps and min 5-bets with AA in the same hand... Not bad table selection IMO.

    The hand from my perspective:

    1) I raise to isolate the limper in position, expecting to scoop the pot or take it down with a c-bet against the limper
    2) Bearlyther knows I'll raise to isolate the limper with a wide range, so 3-bets with a wide range
    3) I 4-bet because I'm thinking Bearlyther knows I'll raise to isolate the limper with a wide range and therefore, I get 3-bet by a wide range. I pick up the 3-bet + blinds + limp if I get a fold here.
    4) Min 5-bet turns your hand face-up. I sigh at running into AA/KK and levelling myself

    FWIW, doing this with 98o or whatever I had looks reckless, but at the same time, I get paid off when I have a hand as a result.

    Built my image, just need to become a nit now )
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Mastercash 50p -£1:
    In Response to Re: Mastercash 50p -£1 : Open limps and min 5-bets with AA in the same hand... Not bad table selection IMO. The hand from my perspective: 1) I raise to isolate the limper in position, expecting to scoop the pot or take it down with a c-bet against the limper 2) Bearlyther knows I'll raise to isolate the limper with a wide range, so 3-bets with a wide range 3) I 4-bet because I'm thinking Bearlyther knows I'll raise to isolate the limper with a wide range and therefore, I get 3-bet by a wide range. I pick up the 3-bet + blinds + limp if I get a fold here. 4) Min 5-bet turns your hand face-up. I sigh at running into AA/KK and levelling myself FWIW, doing this with 98o or whatever I had looks reckless, but at the same time, I get paid off when I have a hand as a result. Built my image, just need to become a nit now )
    Posted by EvilPingu

    It's fine if you have reads that oppo is capable of 3 betting you wide because of the "he knows that you know stuff"
    Also if oppo is 5 betting you with AA then you need to work on that image )


  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited April 2012
    Shove/ Call here depends on player
  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited April 2012
    Yes evilpingu i think your 4 bet is fine as i may 3 bet light here alot of the time as the raise came from the button i just happened to have a hand that time
  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited April 2012
    dont ever flat here 100bb deep just shove
  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited April 2012
    If you flat pre doesn't that only leave one possible play on the flop?? (Shoving it in) Which is pretty pointless as if Mr Evilpingu hits top pair he isnt callling with it unless he has a big/huge draw with it, which could leave you ahead but likely to be behind by the river. Also he could hold a pocket pair and your letting him see three cards to make his set. Min raise shows your hand face up as AA i would rather see your play with the 89 suited. To sum up ... shove it in :)
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited April 2012
    min 5betting worst option imo

    dont like flatting either, unless Mr Bingo sees you as a fish flatting a 4bet oop 100BB deep should set alarms off, he'll get it in with most hands that continue on the flop. Just shove it in, he calls with everything he 4bet for value, hes not 4b/f TT, AQ etc btn v blind at 100NL I wouldnt think
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Mastercash 50p -£1:
    dont ever flat here 100bb deep just shove
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    Forgive my ignorance but if we are 5 bet shoving we are only getting called by x amount of hands

    If we oop is not flatting a 4 bet and checking flop over a viable alternative versus oppo you feel are cabale of 4 bet with nothing and also carry on the story

    or are we indeed better off shoving and ensuring we get paid from worse and also keep balance ?

    Just wanna suck any information out of your brain that I can lol_raise )

  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Mastercash 50p -£1:
    dont ever flat here 100bb deep just shove
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    EvilPingu's range here is any two cards. Literally any two. Any 5-bet simply ends the hand unless he happens to be sitting there with AA or KK. The only way I can see any extra value is to call and check to him on the flop. He might not fire, but it's EvilPingu... there's every chance that he will.

    If you want to take it down now and make all weaker hands fold, then 5-bet. Since there are no stronger hands than AA, I'd suggest that we try to find more value.
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Mastercash 50p -£1:
    In Response to Re: Mastercash 50p -£1 : EvilPingu's range here is any two cards. Literally any two.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Randy76 Sit out        
    Wayne_B73 Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £202.65
    bearlyther Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £100.00
      Your hole cards
    • 9
    • 7
         
    POKEY2011 Fold        
    ST220 Call   £1.00 £2.50 £46.85
    EvilPingu Raise   £4.00 £6.50 £194.50
    Wayne_B73 Fold        
    bearlyther Raise   £11.00 £17.50 £89.00
    ST220 Fold        
    EvilPingu Raise   £24.00 £41.50 £170.50
    bearlyther Raise   £32.00 £73.50 £57.00
    EvilPingu Fold        
    bearlyther Muck        
    bearlyther Win   £57.50   £114.50
    bearlyther Return   £16.00 £0.00 £130.50
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited April 2012
    I'm sorry EvilPingu, I don't mean to give your game away... but you're often on mastercash anyway so I'm sure most people already know.
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited April 2012
    In Response to Re: Mastercash 50p -£1:
    I'm sorry EvilPingu, I don't mean to give your game away... but you're often on mastercash anyway so I'm sure most people already know.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    It's fine. :p
  • kidwizzz78kidwizzz78 Member Posts: 158
    edited April 2012
    Just abit curious looking at them 2 hands when he 4 bets you youve folded twice? shouldnt you at least call the extra £8 on both occasions with pretty much any 2?

    In both hands also you got position i find this intresting or is it bad to call off the extra few quid?
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