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NL200 - Not a scooby where I am
TommyD
Member Posts: 4,389
Player 1 is a very good, extremely aggressive reg. Valid history is they have been saying how many times they've run Kings into Aces in the last couple of days on these Mastercash nl200 tables.
Player 2 has been having a bad session thus far, been very passive and looking to see nearly all flops. They have been reloading on a few occasions and we're confident we are well ahead of their range.
Player 3 has put money into every single pot thus far.
Neither 2 or 3 are not Regs as far as I am aware. I have been raising to Iso 2 and 3 a lot, they are normally coming in together.
The normal critique on all the play is welcomed, what do we do with this flop and what range do we assign player 1?
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| TommyD | Small blind | £1.00 | £1.00 | £442.20 | |
| Player1 | Big blind | £2.00 | £3.00 | £421.82 | |
| Player3 | Big blind | £2.00 | £5.00 | £346.53 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| scotty77 | Fold | ||||
| lJAMESl | Raise | £10.00 | £15.00 | £572.58 | |
| Player3 | Call | £8.00 | £23.00 | £338.53 | |
| Player2 | Call | £10.00 | £33.00 | £65.00 | |
| TommyD | Raise | £38.00 | £71.00 | £404.20 | |
| Player1 | Call | £37.00 | £108.00 | £384.82 | |
| lJAMESl | Fold | ||||
| Player3 | Call | £29.00 | £137.00 | £309.53 | |
| Player2 | All-in | £65.00 | £202.00 | £0.00 | |
| TommyD | Raise | £88.00 | £290.00 | £316.20 | |
| Player1 | Call | £88.00 | £378.00 | £296.82 | |
| Player3 | Fold | ||||
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| TommyD | ? | ||||
Comments
by comment u make can u add kk to his range?
looks a good table for 200nl
Weird spot, i stack but im a fish.
Would be very interested to see what happened.
Alriite Tommy, i was owned by you in H/U yesterday, im glad the Sky did not show those hands lol, you have a great "pay off" style, Ace high looks pretty vs you, so you are dangerous when you have a hand!
Ref hand, Tricky spot, player 1's (is he boonicon?) cold call is either AK, QQ, KK, JJ, (200bb though could be wider?). . . KKs in there because of what you said in OP, i thnk c-betting/shoving never gets called by worse! so you just have to check imo, hope it goes to show down and that your QQ are good, also i would not worry about protecting your hand here either.
Have to check, but not loving it !
don't see how you c/f or b/f !
think ply 1 is very narrow AA/KK/AK
But I think check/call or check/fold if too big a bet. .........but what does an nl4 know?
very interested to see the result of this one (if there is one)
Well above my level but 10's, J's & AK all look feasible possibilities, really don't see any way out of this spot though, not sure I could check fold here.
I don't play cash BUT could I ask why you made it £88? Surely if you wanted to get rid of player 1 it should have been MUCH bigger? I think you're between a rock & a hard place here! Personally, I think a check feigns weakness and If you c/bet (£110/120) it's all going in I suspect?
pad
WIDRR = When in doubt re reaise.
Mostly kidding though as not a huge subscriber to the line
kind of like just flatting the jam pre to keep player3 in and possibly let player1 do something stupid
now were here prob c/cing flop depending on villains bet size
What did you do?
You have to love a hand where you're told your 5bet is both too small and too big.
I posted this at the tail end of a long Sunday session, coming back to it fresh it looks even more of a headache. I will be posting results, you might see it on Top of the Pots, but only a might depending on what else has been running this week, not too many big games this week.
To answer some questions from the responses so far:
It's a 5bet, not a 4bet. If I am correct reading the history (which is tricky here) and from memory it's a min raise + a half from the 4bet shorty jam.
Let's list the action preflop: fold, UTG+1 5Xraise, flat, flat, 3bet, cold call, original UTG+1 raiser folds, call, 4bet short shove, 5bet, flat, fold.
I kind of want to be flamed for the 5bet, or at least get it right under the microscope. Let's look at our options. If I call I'm taking QQ from the SB into a very likely 4-way pot (albeit with one player all in). The three of us are still relatively deep. I am less than thrilled by this prospect and am reduced to guessing my way through the streets. Equally I hate going bigger which leaves me completely committed to the pot, especially when I'm already suspicious of Player 1. What is he cold calling from the BB a SB 3bet to an UTG+1 5x raise with? The added wrinkle is that I have been isolating Players 2 and 3 a lot so my range is bigger than it normally is in the eyes of both Player 1 and James, and then again I'm still 3betting OOP a 5x open from a player who is both UTG+1 and much better than me.
I think I've gone cross-eyed now just trying to put this together.
The 5bet was an attempt at a secondary isolate raise (I think I'm just making terms up now). If Player 1 folds I am pretty confident that Player 3 is calling, in which case I would be very confident of being ahead and on this flop would be shoveling money into the middle confident of being called by any Jack, any pocket pair and most straight draw/pair and draw (yes, this wide versus Player 3). I am still very suspicious of Player 1's holding and I tried to gauge a bet where I am not committed to a shove but where he can't just call, he'll either be shoving or folding, opening my attention up to Player 3. I obviously got this ghastly wrong, I was really massively surprised when he just called. Maybe I shouldn't have been?
So short answer, it's a 5bet/most likely fold to Player 1, and a 5bet/get it in to player 3. Is this really bad thinking? Feel free to tell me, be as brutal as you like. Is a 5bet/fold ever a good idea, let alone with Queens? I'm not trying to turn Queens into a bluff v Player 1 but I am trying to give the impression of 'Yes I know there are loose players in the pot but I really am big. Yes I know I've been saying that quite a lot but this time it's really true, please go away.'
Some other quick answers, no it's not Boonicon but let's not play the 'guess the regs' game. They are a reg, IMO they are good and aggressive. I have a fair amount of history with them but not as much as some other Regs.
Yes it was a good NL200 game, that's why it was still running at 4am this morning. I'm on my 12th cup of coffee today.
Player 1's call of the 5bet and obviously the cold call of the 3bet do not close the action, in fact the later has three players with action behind.
My 3 bet sizing is directly relative to Player 2's stack and trying not to get snookered by an under-raise shove. He was due to pop at this point and get all the discs over the line in an act of desperation.
plus on the flop, as it's going to showdown anyway is it less likely if you check that oppo makes a play here with worse
I check, he checks behind.
Turn brings a King.
I check/fold to a £90 bet
Player 1 has AKo which has Player 2's A2o drawing dead to scoop the pot.
Looking back I think the critical point is the 5bet. I maintain it is most likely a flat takes us 4 way to the flop and playing the SB I'm pretty much hating that. But maybe my thinking that Player 1 'has to shove or fold.' is skewed. Turning Queens face up versus one player while betting for value with it against another player is, for me, likely to be the equivalent of trying to turn lead into gold. Is my thinking totally out of whack with the 5bet and reasons behind it? All opinions welcome, and I do mean all. A lot of people have said it's 'above their level.' Hogwash, it's all blinds, cards and people, regardless of the stakes and all opinions are relevant.
Looking at it from the AK's spot, that's pretty naughty as well. This deep do they cold 4bet? And as played what do you do facing the 5bet?
Clearing up a few bits, I understand the thinking behind the info bet as suggested by Ryan, but as well as agreeing it feels a bit sickly to do it I also think if I put any more money into the pot I'm pretty pot stuck and drawing to two cards the vast majority of the time. Can I bet/fold £90 on the flop? Seems really bad to me turning Queens into a bluff here, because that's basically what I'm doing.
Sometimes I kinda miss the old me. The one that would say 'I have an over pair, SHOVE SHOVE SHOVE.' He was cute.
not sure anyone suggested to bet on the flop to protect your hand haha, but neither is it a spot where you'd ever have to think you would need to :S
to me, flatting the 3-bet from player 1's point of view is fairenough, but to then call another £88 (with what he must realise is a pot bet on the flop to cover him) and 95 percent of the time hes gonne be facing a bet on every flop (this is in the 5% i guess! ;p).
Is he hoping your gonna stack off with K's/Q's on an ace high flop? (because surely they must now know that your range is purely JJ+ at a minimum and AK) seems a bit crazy to call off £126 (63BB's) (obviously hes never doing it out of a 100BB stack, so thats his only redemption thats hes sitting 210BB's deep but then where would his value come from post flop?
what are your opinions to that out of interest?