Are you really so stupid did u even look at how the bord ran out? it was the first level u have to think why i flatted flop in the first place then i min raise turn which completes both flush and straight AA kk is only 1 pair at the end of the day
Or its cus your just pretty much very sad you dont have a clue what your on about and you cant say anything reasonable so youve gotta act a right idiot?
Raising the button with K9 is fine, but at this stage of a tournament, i'd be more inclined to just throw it away. Opening isn't a mistake though, IMO.
Once villain 3bets, it's a pretty easy 4bet or fold with K9 - I'd much prefer a fold, because there's just so many problems with calling with K9 in this spot:
1) We're behind to most, if not all of our opponent's 3bet range.
2) Our opponent is the aggressor, and people very rarely 3bet then check the flop, so we're going to have to fold this so many times when we miss.
3) If we do hit the flop, despite having position, we're going to be dominated by overpairs or only flop middle pair if we hit our 9, or outkicked if we hit our K.
4) We're only ever going to be comfortable if we flop 2 pair or better, which is very rare, and even then there's no guarantee we'll get paid, or that we'll be ahead.
For those reasons, I'm never calling a 3bet with K9.
If we consider 4betting pre - A lot of players will only 4bet when they have a really strong hand, so if you choose to 4bet here, then it will get through as a bluff a lot of the time. This isn't necessarily the worst option in the world, because we have position, so if our opponent peels, he'll be doing that knowing he's OOP for the rest of the hand, so peeling isn't great for our opponent. Therefore, our opponent is going to have quite a lot of hands that he'll 3bet/fold here.
The opponent's other option would be to 5bet. 200bb deep, a 5bet is going to represent such a large amount of his stack that he'll become pot committed, so I think he'll only ever 5bet a monster hand to get stacks in, and that range is literally going to be AA, KK, maybe QQ. I can see a 4bet getting through a lot of the time here, or our opponent peels and we can c-bet certain flops and win the pot. If we do get 5bet, it's a VERY easy fold.
Having said that, if we're going to 4bet here to have some 4bet bluffs in our range, I'd much rather be 4betting a hand like 78s, which still has 22-23% equity against overpairs, and will often flop a draw which makes it easier for us to continue the story of a premium pair with a semi-bluff on later streets. Although I'm not particularly keen on 4betting K9 here, I think it's a better option than just calling the 3bet, so if I'm going any further with this hand, it's always with a 4bet and never with a flat call.
Of course, the best thing we could possibly do here would simply be to click the "Fold" button.
Fold > 4bet > Call.
Flop
I'm going to use bright pink now...
If we're calling a 3bet with K9, then hit this flop, I think we have to call. Once our opponent has 3bet, he's betting that flop almost 100% of the time, whether he's hit or not, so I don't think a call with position is awful, as played. I wouldn't get into that spot in the first place, but if I did, I'd call the flop.
Turn
The turn is an interesting card, and one of the worst in the deck for our opponent - Our call on the flop could be a flush draw. However, you have to ask yourself: If you actually had the flush, are you ever going to click it back on the turn? I would imagine you're either shoving the turn, or calling and shoving the river, so for that reason, I don't really like the click back. It's also the first level of a tournament, so I don't like putting our entire stack at risk by turning third pair into a bluff, and by calling, we're behind almost all of the time here, so although it's a horrible turn card for our opponent, I think it is best to just check/fold.
FWIW: I think our opponent knows where he is once you've min re-raised the turn, it's either the nuts or nowt.
River
Good card ofc, as we've improved. I think we have to shove as played. Your bet size on the river is pointless, if he's going to call that, he'll call an all in, so just shove instead. He's almost certainly got Qx here, and almost always AQ or KQ from 3betting pre, so we're almost certainly going to get paid here.
FWIW: I don't like the villain's shove. Our bet on the turn has polarised our range, we either have the nuts, so we snap call his shove and he loses an extra few hundred chips, or we have nothing and sigh fold with a few hundred chips back when he would've won anyway, so I think the villain's shove is actually a mistake as it achieves absolutely nothing.
im just doing this 2 wind u up its clearly working u obv get tilted alot and u seem rude so i am coming up with simple answers lol Posted by IDONKCALLU
Which is known as trolling and will often result in a moderator grabbing you by the collar and dragging you out of the forum quicker than you can beg for forgiveness Just sayin'.
Right, okay, where to start with this... Raising the button with K9 is fine, but at this stage of a tournament, i'd be more inclined to just throw it away. Opening isn't a mistake though, IMO. Once villain 3bets, it's a pretty easy 4bet or fold with K9 - I'd much prefer a fold , because there's just so many problems with calling with K9 in this spot: 1) We're behind to most, if not all of our opponent's 3bet range. 2) Our opponent is the aggressor, and people very rarely 3bet then check the flop, so we're going to have to fold this so many times when we miss. 3) If we do hit the flop, despite having position, we're going to be dominated by overpairs or only flop middle pair if we hit our 9, or outkicked if we hit our K. 4) We're only ever going to be comfortable if we flop 2 pair or better, which is very rare, and even then there's no guarantee we'll get paid, or that we'll be ahead. For those reasons, I'm never calling a 3bet with K9 . If we consider 4betting pre - A lot of players will only 4bet when they have a really strong hand, so if you choose to 4bet here, then it will get through as a bluff a lot of the time. This isn't necessarily the worst option in the world, because we have position, so if our opponent peels, he'll be doing that knowing he's OOP for the rest of the hand, so peeling isn't great for our opponent. Therefore, our opponent is going to have quite a lot of hands that he'll 3bet/fold here. The opponent's other option would be to 5bet. 200bb deep, a 5bet is going to represent such a large amount of his stack that he'll become pot committed, so I think he'll only ever 5bet a monster hand to get stacks in, and that range is literally going to be AA, KK, maybe QQ. I can see a 4bet getting through a lot of the time here, or our opponent peels and we can c-bet certain flops and win the pot. If we do get 5bet, it's a VERY easy fold. Having said that, if we're going to 4bet here to have some 4bet bluffs in our range, I'd much rather be 4betting a hand like 78s, which still has 22-23% equity against overpairs, and will often flop a draw which makes it easier for us to continue the story of a premium pair with a semi-bluff on later streets. Although I'm not particularly keen on 4betting K9 here, I think it's a better option than just calling the 3bet, so if I'm going any further with this hand, it's always with a 4bet and never with a flat call. Of course, the best thing we could possibly do here would simply be to click the "Fold" button. Fold /> 4bet /> Call. Flop I'm going to use bright pink now... If we're calling a 3bet with K9, then hit this flop, I think we have to call. Once our opponent has 3bet, he's betting that flop almost 100% of the time, whether he's hit or not, so I don't think a call with position is awful, as played. I wouldn't get into that spot in the first place, but if I did, I'd call the flop. Turn The turn is an interesting card, and one of the worst in the deck for our opponent - Our call on the flop could be a flush draw. However, you have to ask yourself: If you actually had the flush, are you ever going to click it back on the turn? I would imagine you're either shoving the turn, or calling and shoving the river, so for that reason, I don't really like the click back. It's also the first level of a tournament, so I don't like putting our entire stack at risk by turning third pair into a bluff, and by calling, we're behind almost all of the time here, so although it's a horrible turn card for our opponent, I think it is best to just check/fold. FWIW: I think our opponent knows where he is once you've min re-raised the turn, it's either the nuts or nowt. River Good card ofc, as we've improved. I think we have to shove as played. Your bet size on the river is pointless, if he's going to call that, he'll call an all in, so just shove instead. He's almost certainly got Qx here, and almost always AQ or KQ from 3betting pre, so we're almost certainly going to get paid here. FWIW: I don't like the villain's shove. Our bet on the turn has polarised our range, we either have the nuts, so we snap call his shove and he loses an extra few hundred chips, or we have nothing and sigh fold with a few hundred chips back when he would've won anyway, so I think the villain's shove is actually a mistake as it achieves absolutely nothing. Posted by EvilPingu
I really like this post. A lot of sense. And a lot of very good advice given. Good post EvilPingu
kidwiz - if this is a true poker clinic hand then listen to the advice given - peeps have spent a lot of effort to highlight where they think you could have played it differently
if all you wanted it to be was a brag post stick it in bbv and don't waste everyone's time
Was that ment to be some form of sarcism amy? Posted by kidwiz10
Did you post this thread for feedback or for a back pat for playing well? Just wondering as anytime anyone has said anything negative to it you've kind of tried to defend it.
And no I don't think his post is sarcasm, but making the point that either the guy couldn't play well and just was sticking to his tptk, which can happen early stages of an MTT, and why bluffing isn't always wise. Or maybe he had noted you playing to many hands so far? Or had notes on you from some other game etc and was playing against you the player not the board. That is his point, and nothin sarcstic about it.
Yea thx for that post pingu nice size to so appreciate the effort there , but i will say one thing tho i didnt call with the k9 to hit 2 pair eg i called to try outplay him might be a bit to early on in the tourny to have gotten myself into that situation but impatience not good lol
Anyway i did think of 4 betting but the problem i have is if he just flats this then the flop hits he could have ak? then with me hitting 2nd pair id be in difficult street so i fancied my chances of hoping the bord runs out as it did and try rep sumit big on this occasion it didnt work and then i got lucky on river but ill take that
Yea you was right about the river bet was pointless i shoulda just jammed as i didnt have relativly much back at that , but if i did have the flush id never jam the turn as in most cases this will fold out big hands A dim .K dim eg , and least buy min raising turn i could get value from it and to be honest id probly play it exactly the same way just jam the river of course
Geldy no offence but how could this ever be a brag post? its 10min into a tourny , and yea i was asking for advise and fabraclass and pingu are the ones who seem to make sense as the rest is to do with fold k9 pre which in my game is not possible as if i raise button then fold to 3 bets all the time im gunna get walked over i wanted advice on my play on the streets eg
And as fab pointed out i was just unlucky to play sum1 who would risk it all so early with 1 pair when most better plays would have layed down much better with the action given and advice you call idiots like idonkcall advice when he slates me for my play with 2nd pair but yet doesnt seem to read the 1st post i wrote about what i had set up yea amazing:)
you do come across a little aggressive if someone says they don't understand your play. Your reply re pingu's comments suggest your are willing to listen to other's ideas, just don't be so quick to castigate those who don't get what you were trying to do.
(Yout put him on aa kk so u raise turn),,,,,,,,,,,,im just trying to wind you up yea thats advice there thats a plonker who shouldnt even comment , and yes that would be as i stated the very 1st post under my hand that what i put him on was big holdings andi called with the k9 to outplay him if it runs out a wet bord so i did put out my plan clearly enough and all i get back is fold k9 pre bla bla which in fact is not advice
Why are you even posting ive seen a few of your lame comments on other posts which are just irrelevent , how is it a brag post i didnt win anything?? its not a massive cash hand is it , its just a hand in the 1st level of a tourny and i asked for advice on my play
And to your question yea i would have posted it if i miss river and lose asking was my play okay and is it good in the long run so theres your answer:D
YOu slate him, but to be honest its just as risky running a bluff on someone early in a tournament with no idea of their play or their holdings. I said before fold pre, but thats only because of the stageof the tournament. I don't have a problem with raising K9 on the BTN when its worth it, but the risk reward at this stage just isn' there for me. And even if playing like Pingu said I don't overly like flatting when I could easy be dominaed by AK, or KQ etc. It's easy to say "I thought I could outplay them", but how the **** can you know that this early in a tournament with no knowledge on him? Sure you got postion and that helps, but he has betting lead, which unless you got a kind board to bluff at its difficult unless he misses and gives up the lead.
Bluffing early in a tournamen with unknown players is about as wise as bluffing at 4nl, as so often you have playersnot even overly thinking about your hand. So no offense meant but you kind of dug your own hole here and got really lucky on a river or you'd have been busted or short stacked on a hand you didn't really need to go to battle with at this stage of a tournament.
To be honest been easier if I'd just done a +1 to pingu's long post as the points are well made there.
Yea thx for that post pingu nice size to so appreciate the effort there , but i will say one thing tho i didnt call with the k9 to hit 2 pair eg i called to try outplay him might be a bit to early on in the tourny to have gotten myself into that situation but impatience not good lol Anyway i did think of 4 betting but the problem i have is if he just flats this then the flop hits he could have ak? then with me hitting 2nd pair id be in difficult street so i fancied my chances of hoping the bord runs out as it did and try rep sumit big on this occasion it didnt work and then i got lucky on river but ill take that Yea you was right about the river bet was pointless i shoulda just jammed as i didnt have relativly much back at that , but if i did have the flush id never jam the turn as in most cases this will fold out big hands A dim .K dim eg , and least buy min raising turn i could get value from it and to be honest id probly play it exactly the same way just jam the river of course Posted by kidwiz10
I think this is going to cause you a lot of problems + cost you a lot of money, and I'm sure you know that as well. Do you multitable? If you're single tabling, then it's very easy to get bored of clicking the fold button all the time, so you play hands that you shouldn't be playing.
How is it ego here when me winning this hand is irrelevant to nothing as i didnt gain anything? ,
No i had a plan to stick to as tikay sais you gotta finish your story ay , and no gambling would have been me pushing pre all in when its 10000% sure hes got Aces
I do multi table and i was at the time also , its the highest buy in mtt ive played in before as i really am not an mtt player i make the same moves in cash all the time and as fabraclass pointed out i should keep it to that , inexperince which obviously showed on the slower structure game , i personally wouldnt say its gunna cost me alot of money as i think against better players itl work now and again and i rarely play mtts guess it was just a bit of fun to to try it and playing this type of tourney is just rare
Btw have you seen the video on Victor bloom where he raise then pushes on a re raise on some guy on a like A A X board with literlly garbage on sum tourny
Never comparing myself to him just balls comes to mind
I do multi table and i was at the time also , its the highest buy in mtt ive played in before as i really am not an mtt player i make the same moves in cash all the time and as fabraclass pointed out i should keep it to that , inexperince which obviously showed on the slower structure game , i personally wouldnt say its gunna cost me alot of money as i think against better players itl work now and again and i rarely play mtts guess it was just a bit of fun to to try it and playing this type of tourney is just rare Btw have you seen the video on Victor bloom where he raise then pushes on a re raise on some guy on a like A A X board with literlly garbage on sum tourny Never comparing myself to him just balls comes to mind Posted by kidwiz10
I think it will work against very good players sometimes. As long a s you haven't been getting out of line too much, you go allin on the river( as long as a fourth flush card doesn't come maybe). and you are extremely deep. I think the two of you were about 200bbs deep.
However I would more often then not, and especially without good information on the opponent,fold pre. I think you show a lot of bravery on the turn. And if a good opponent is betting an overpair or top pair on the turn with or without a flush draw, you put them under alot of pressure this deep. But if you were both around 100bbs or less, I am not a big fan of the move, as the opponent will be more pot committed, and therefore you have far less leverage to force them off big hands.
Comments
If we're calling a 3bet with K9, then hit this flop, I think we have to call. Once our opponent has 3bet, he's betting that flop almost 100% of the time, whether he's hit or not, so I don't think a call with position is awful, as played. I wouldn't get into that spot in the first place, but if I did, I'd call the flop.
And no I don't think his post is sarcasm, but making the point that either the guy couldn't play well and just was sticking to his tptk, which can happen early stages of an MTT, and why bluffing isn't always wise. Or maybe he had noted you playing to many hands so far? Or had notes on you from some other game etc and was playing against you the player not the board. That is his point, and nothin sarcstic about it.
Anyway i did think of 4 betting but the problem i have is if he just flats this then the flop hits he could have ak? then with me hitting 2nd pair id be in difficult street so i fancied my chances of hoping the bord runs out as it did and try rep sumit big on this occasion it didnt work and then i got lucky on river but ill take that
Yea you was right about the river bet was pointless i shoulda just jammed as i didnt have relativly much back at that , but if i did have the flush id never jam the turn as in most cases this will fold out big hands A dim .K dim eg , and least buy min raising turn i could get value from it and to be honest id probly play it exactly the same way just jam the river of course
And as fab pointed out i was just unlucky to play sum1 who would risk it all so early with 1 pair when most better plays would have layed down much better with the action given and advice you call idiots like idonkcall advice when he slates me for my play with 2nd pair but yet doesnt seem to read the 1st post i wrote about what i had set up yea amazing:)
And to your question yea i would have posted it if i miss river and lose asking was my play okay and is it good in the long run so theres your answer:D
YOu slate him, but to be honest its just as risky running a bluff on someone early in a tournament with no idea of their play or their holdings. I said before fold pre, but thats only because of the stageof the tournament. I don't have a problem with raising K9 on the BTN when its worth it, but the risk reward at this stage just isn' there for me. And even if playing like Pingu said I don't overly like flatting when I could easy be dominaed by AK, or KQ etc. It's easy to say "I thought I could outplay them", but how the **** can you know that this early in a tournament with no knowledge on him? Sure you got postion and that helps, but he has betting lead, which unless you got a kind board to bluff at its difficult unless he misses and gives up the lead.
Bluffing early in a tournamen with unknown players is about as wise as bluffing at 4nl, as so often you have playersnot even overly thinking about your hand. So no offense meant but you kind of dug your own hole here and got really lucky on a river or you'd have been busted or short stacked on a hand you didn't really need to go to battle with at this stage of a tournament.
To be honest been easier if I'd just done a +1 to pingu's long post as the points are well made there.
No i had a plan to stick to as tikay sais you gotta finish your story ay , and no gambling would have been me pushing pre all in when its 10000% sure hes got Aces
Btw have you seen the video on Victor bloom where he raise then pushes on a re raise on some guy on a like A A X board with literlly garbage on sum tourny
Never comparing myself to him just balls comes to mind
Timing was off yea but having the guts to go with it i have alot of respect for big time
There all on the table laughing at him but whos the one with the fame the money eg thats a full on omaha move right there mind haha
However I would more often then not, and especially without good information on the opponent,fold pre. I think you show a lot of bravery on the turn. And if a good opponent is betting an overpair or top pair on the turn with or without a flush draw, you put them under alot of pressure this deep. But if you were both around 100bbs or less, I am not a big fan of the move, as the opponent will be more pot committed, and therefore you have far less leverage to force them off big hands.