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When is enough enough

borobabe09borobabe09 Member Posts: 327
edited November 2009 in Poker Chat
The more i understand the game, the less i understand some of its players. I am getting more and more frustrated by the ability of the FISH and wonderin how many times i have to lose perfectly good hands when played properly to those who play rubbish hands and get lucky.
Does there come at time when i should use the "if you cant beat them join them policy" because playing proper poker as it shoud be played is getting me nowhere fast.
I try playing position, i try pre-flop raising using the correct amount of raise X3 and still get called & fished.
Where am i going wrong.....Please help.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,262
    edited November 2009

    You are NOT going wrong. Try to get your money in good, & you will win in the long-term.

    Yes, it's frustrating when "bad calls" hit, but there is only one way to win - get your money in good.

    There are a lot of gung-ho players who mess about with funky starting hands. 90% of them go busto in due course.

    Don't go there - play the game right, & you'll be just fine.
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    paparonpaparon Member Posts: 186
    edited November 2009
    try the 10 seater deepstacks on a 10 seater table not as many players calling with marginal hands theres usually a couple of good hands out nearly every time so they cant play the garbage  position can be used more than on a six handed table the bad beats do still happen but not as often
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    bennydip2bennydip2 Member Posts: 2,093
    edited November 2009
     Borobabe (BB) ..What I'd like to ask is,  who told  you to win at this game is to play properly, who told you those are the rules and above all    .  there are no rules !!! 
    This game is warfare and dont you forget it !!!...There are no rules of war at poker when playing on-line.....   The best kept secret is "Confusion"     Mix up your play..
    Dont follow the sheep in doing what the books say, the "Proper bet size"   .  I guarantee you if you took 10 people who have notes on me and my play...  they'd all be different !!!   "Muppet"  "Donk'  "Rock"  "Lunatic" "Calling station"  "Aggressive" "Primo winner" "Trapper" "Offensive" "Chatty"  ..It will all be there ..the point is this   ..
    If your predictable in what your doing then others will use that to their advantage, on the other hand there's nothing wrong with playing the  "Proper Way", just do it in a way other cant tell.
     
      "Confussion"  and "Timing"  is properly  !!!

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    TalonTalon Member Posts: 1,621
    edited November 2009
      One of the biggest problems that we face is that we do a sensible raise and get called very light. We always remember the times when they hit there miracle cards and beat us but we rarely remember the times that we throw out a c-bet and they fold. The sort of loose play that you are referring to can really hurt us in tournaments as we only have the one life but in cash play this is exactly the play we want because we know we will keeep winning against it provided we have the bankroll to contain the variance.

      In the short term we have to remember that poker is a game about decisions and not results. If we keep making the right decisions and the right plays then we will be a winner in the long term, unfortunately we can easily become phased by the short term and individual hand results.

      Just keep playing the game well and the results will come and you will have all the success your good plays deserve
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    scrumdownscrumdown Member Posts: 1,609
    edited November 2009
    borobabe  not  doing  any thing  wrong  they  just  wont llay  there  str8   and  flush  draws  down no matter  what  the  cost
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    DingdellDingdell Member Posts: 166
    edited November 2009
    I think that people can get used to your game and assume you are playing abc poker and know that they can put you on a hand. Take advantage of your abc image, play like you have the nuts and bluff in a situation where they know they are beat (aces on the flop after your raise) , show the bluff, confound them and they will go back in their box after a while when they can't put you on anything for definite any more.
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    SUPERNOVASUPERNOVA Member Posts: 403
    edited November 2009
    In Response to When is enough enough:
    The more i understand the game, the less i understand some of its players. I am getting more and more frustrated by the ability of the FISH and wonderin how many times i have to lose perfectly good hands when played properly to those who play rubbish hands and get lucky. Does there come at time when i should use the "if you cant beat them join them policy" because playing proper poker as it shoud be played is getting me nowhere fast. I try playing position, i try pre-flop raising using the correct amount of raise X3 and still get called & fished. Where am i going wrong.....Please help. x
    Posted by borobabe09
    As the previous replies have said, no you aren't. Just stick at what you are doing and you'll come good. I've gone through the same thing as have most people probably at some stage and all that happens is that you end up lacking confidence and self belief and losing the good parts of your game. What helped me was chatting to a few fellow players just like you are doing here, I seem to be a bit of a yo yo but have learned to stay calm and grind it out (Mere and Benny will vouch for that). I went through a stage where I wanted to totally change what I was doing and Mere said to me maybe make a few little tweaks but DON'T don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and I've never forgotten that and think of it so many times when playing and I settle down and grind away.....glk.
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    TENOFSPADETENOFSPADE Member Posts: 426
    edited November 2009

    HI BORO ,IVE BEEN HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM IN RECENT WEEKS,IF U RAISE EARLY ON IN A TOURNEY ,YOU GET 38 CALLERS WITCH CAN BE FRUSTRATING ,IVE CHANGED MY GAME NOW ,AND JUST SIT TIGHT, AND LET THESE FISH KNOCK EACH OTHER OUT.......I TEND NOT TO RAISE WITH MY AK AQ AJ HANDS ANYMORE ,I JUST CALL AND SEE A FLOP ,THEN DECIDE IF I WANNA BET {BIT BINGO LIKE REALLY}BUT ITS HELPED ME GET THROUGH THE EARLY STAGES ...AND I SEEM TO B GOING DEEP IN MOST TOURNEYS I PLAY NOW,THE HARDEST  PART OF OF A MTT IN MY OPINION IS THE EARLY STAGES..........GL TEN

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    loonytoonsloonytoons Member Posts: 4,270
    edited November 2009
    Your problem is that you say you are making sensible decisions, and what you forget is most of us are far from sensible. On a serious note, if its low stakes your playing, some players just dont care if they lose, they just reload or enter another tourny, and they will chase the miracle card.
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    borobabe09borobabe09 Member Posts: 327
    edited November 2009

    Just 1 example of how i am getting beat
     A posted a small blind 50.
     B posted a big blind 100.
     C raised for 300.
     borobabe09 raised for 500  Hand KK
     E called for 500.
     F folded
     A folded
     B folded
     C called for 200.
     Dealing the flop (7c,Qd,Kd).
     C bet 300.
     borobabe09 has gone all in for 2,110.
     E folded
     C called for 1,810.
     C showed Td,Js.
     borobabe09 showed Ks,Kh.
    />Dealing the turn (9c).
    />Dealing the river (Ah).
     C won the hand (5,870) with Straight to the Ace (Td,Js,Qd,Kd,Ah)

    Was i fished, or was my all-in call poor?

    Tryin to get my money in got me nowhere?

    Bennydip2, i am playing different styles of poker, but seem to be on a losing streak no matter what.
    I played the slow game earlier and got had??
    I play reckless & it gets me no where?
    I fish for the flush & straight and that just loses me chips?



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    Hogg321Hogg321 Member Posts: 260
    edited November 2009
    nothing wrong with that boro, money is made from these fish, im not sure on the exact odds but i thik you're 80-20 ahead, so 4 times out of 5 you win double up and go on to cash... it is quickly forgotten as you get on with the rest of your tournie. The one time you do lose you remember it as you lose your tournament life, and get annoyed about the fish.

    these fish are not making money long term, dont join em ;)
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    Kiwini4uKiwini4u Member Posts: 3,830
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: When is enough enough:
    Just 1 example of how i am getting beat  A posted a small blind 50.  B posted a big blind 100.  C raised for 300.  borobabe09 raised for 500  Hand KK  E called for 500.  F folded  A folded  B folded  C called for 200.  Dealing the flop (7c,Qd,Kd).  C bet 300.  borobabe09 has gone all in for 2,110.  E folded  C called for 1,810.  C showed Td,Js.  borobabe09 showed Ks,Kh. />Dealing the turn (9c). />Dealing the river (Ah).  C won the hand (5,870) with Straight to the Ace (Td,Js,Qd,Kd,Ah) Was i fished, or was my all-in call poor? Tryin to get my money in got me nowhere? Bennydip2, i am playing different styles of poker, but seem to be on a losing streak no matter what. I played the slow game earlier and got had?? I play reckless & it gets me no where? I fish for the flush & straight and that just loses me chips?
    Posted by borobabe09
    I think we all go there from time to time, my suggestion would be to take a day or twos break away from the tables to clear your head. I know that helps for me.
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    borobabe09borobabe09 Member Posts: 327
    edited November 2009
    I am not playing this game by the book, but it is good to know what your doing if your money is on the table/in the pot.... I pref my longer games MTT DS BH, & i like the S&G. 
    I am varying my play and i am doing all the things ppl are telling me along the way, i have not read any bookes or browsed the internet for tips on poker, i am merely watching and listening to those around me.
    I have loved poker for years, just recently started online play, my brother got me a poker table years ago, alongtime before poker especially Texas hold em became more commercial.
    I do appear to be lacking in confidence and self belief and it is serious to me when my money is involved.
    Argghh, im feeling lost
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    TalonTalon Member Posts: 1,621
    edited November 2009
      In the hand you described.  Firstly you only min reraised which gave player c the odds to call to see the flop. After he had lead out on the flop and you had gone all- in  he was getting odds of over 2 to 1 to hit his draw, and with it being open ended he was about 2 to 1 to hit so he was getting the right odds.  This is just one of those hands where the poker gods turn on you and you just have to suck it up. 

      The only mistake you made was pre flop, your raise should have been bigger to eliminate the speculative hands from calling. As soon as that flop came down you were both going all the way.

      This is just a hand that plays itself and you should try not to worry about it too much
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    borobabe09borobabe09 Member Posts: 327
    edited November 2009
    Thanks to all for there comments. x
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    DingdellDingdell Member Posts: 166
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: When is enough enough:
    I am not playing this game by the book, but it is good to know what your doing if your money is on the table/in the pot.... I pref my longer games MTT DS BH, & i like the S&G.  I am varying my play and i am doing all the things ppl are telling me along the way, i have not read any bookes or browsed the internet for tips on poker, i am merely watching and listening to those around me. I have loved poker for years, just recently started online play, my brother got me a poker table years ago, alongtime before poker especially Texas hold em became more commercial. I do appear to be lacking in confidence and self belief and it is serious to me when my money is involved. Argghh, im feeling lost
    Posted by borobabe09
    In which case take a break - I swore off poker for ever, less than a week later I was back, renewed, feeling better about my game and started winning again.

    The worst thing to do imo is to play when frustrated - it's like a life long tilt. Just relax, do something else, rediscover another passion and return when you know where you are. You will be back more quickly than you can imagine!

    Well it worked for me - good luck with whatever you decide.
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    booboo69booboo69 Member Posts: 196
    edited November 2009
    I think loonytoons has hit the nail on the head etc.
    If it's a small stakes game, a lot of people don't care if they lose.
    The couple of quid thay are paying, is a charge for a bit of entertainment.
    I only play small stakes stuff here (I like to play two MTTs a week at a different site, I'd do that here, but I have too many connection problems for some reason)  as I play when at work, I play when on call at home. If I get interrupted at work or get called out, I chuck the chips in with any rubbish, chase the draw etc. I can imagine there are many who do the same.
    In the long run you will come out on top, especially if at a table with me, just ask me if I'm at work....

    Good luck and take it easy.
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    booboo69booboo69 Member Posts: 196
    edited November 2009
    As an example of what I was saying, during the summer I was in a pub in Manchester waiting for a couple of pals, and the barmaid was playing a S&G on a laptop, behind the bar, inbetween serving customers!
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    SirFrankSirFrank Member Posts: 197
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: When is enough enough:
     Borobabe (BB) ..What I'd like to ask is,  who told  you to win at this game is to play properly, who told you those are the rules and above all    .  there are no rules !!!  This game is warfare and dont you forget it !!!...There are no rules of war at poker when playing on-line.....   The best kept secret is "Confusion"     Mix up your play.. Dont follow the sheep in doing what the books say, the "Proper bet size"   .  I guarantee you if you took 10 people who have notes on me and my play...  they'd all be different !!!   "Muppet"  "Donk'  "Rock"  "Lunatic" "Calling station"  "Aggressive" "Primo winner" "Trapper" "Offensive" "Chatty"  ..It will all be there ..the point is this   .. If your predictable in what your doing then others will use that to their advantage, on the other hand there's nothing wrong with playing the  "Proper Way", just do it in a way other cant tell.     "Confussion"  and "Timing"  is properly  !!!
    Posted by bennydip2
    Very good point ...and to be honest ....why has 7-2 off got less chance of hitting than A-9 off, I fold 7-2...as most folk do ...but i had 7-2 poket cards ...it was my big blind 100 chips, they all flat called me ...flop came 772, i went all in...took down a massive pot...only to be greeted with a stream of profanity because i had raised with 7-2 off suit! Did these muppets not realise ..that i was given a free flop....then flopped a full...Am i still suposed to flold then ...lol
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    margatemafmargatemaf Member Posts: 849
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: When is enough enough:
    I am not playing this game by the book, but it is good to know what your doing if your money is on the table/in the pot.... I pref my longer games MTT DS BH, & i like the S&G.  I am varying my play and i am doing all the things ppl are telling me along the way, i have not read any bookes or browsed the internet for tips on poker, i am merely watching and listening to those around me. I have loved poker for years, just recently started online play, my brother got me a poker table years ago, alongtime before poker especially Texas hold em became more commercial. I do appear to be lacking in confidence and self belief and it is serious to me when my money is involved. Argghh, im feeling lost
    Posted by borobabe09
    Hi borobabe,

    That's exactly where i am at, at the moment myself!! To the point where i don't want to play online anymore. My main reason is i am a fairly good live player and can read people quite well at a table. I expected because i am fairly good live that i am going to be able to do just as well online too! Boy did i come to earth with a bang ( so much so that people in china sent me emails to keep the noise down!! ) so much so that i went on tilt an lost £15 in one day in the space of about 5 hours last week trying to chase my early cheap game losses. £15 does not sound a lot but when i only ever play 30p 50p & £1 DYM i ended up going on tables i had no right being on. When you suffer losses like that it does knock your confidence, mine is still not great, but yesterday first time in a week i went back on the tables only at 30p DYM mind you! Armed with all the advice i got last week i thought right "let's have it " played 3 games and cashed all 3! it has not brought my confidence back to where it was, but it did help a little bit ;)

    Having money on the tables you'd expect to play to a certain level, but don't forget we're all at different levels an that's the beauty of poker i guess, that a bad little'un can take out a good big'un just by wanting to see all the cards and getting lucky! These people are going to be everywhere we go. Hopefully with experience etc you will spot these people a mile off and be able to avoid them ;)

    Being a bit of a pureist and expecting everyone i play poker with on here, to play with the same appreciation of the game i have, is where i came unstuck. If someone raises me or re-raises me i generally respect it unless i know for sure i am playing an out an out bluffer or i got a top notch hand myself. The majority of players on here will respect it i have to say. The ones that don't are the ones you need to watch and avoid!! I have started making notes on people now and it's helped a bit too. Benny said that he has people that will have notes on him saying different things because he mixes it up, but to have some notes on people is better than none, If they play differently next time just add to the notes an you start getting a bigger picture.

    Feeling lost and low in confidence is a real kick in the badgers nadgers!! but your in the right place to get yourself out of that situation as you have already seen by the many replies of advice! that's why this place is THE ONLY place to be if you need advice or feel like that ;) i doubt if this has helped much but just thought i'd put my two penneth's worth in ;)
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