HI BORO ,IVE BEEN HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM IN RECENT WEEKS,IF U RAISE EARLY ON IN A TOURNEY ,YOU GET 38 CALLERS WITCH CAN BE FRUSTRATING ,IVE CHANGED MY GAME NOW ,AND JUST SIT TIGHT, AND LET THESE FISH KNOCK EACH OTHER OUT.......I TEND NOT TO RAISE WITH MY AK AQ AJ HANDS ANYMORE ,I JUST CALL AND SEE A FLOP ,THEN DECIDE IF I WANNA BET {BIT BINGO LIKE REALLY}BUT ITS HELPED ME GET THROUGH THE EARLY STAGES ...AND I SEEM TO B GOING DEEP IN MOST TOURNEYS I PLAY NOW,THE HARDEST PART OF OF A MTT IN MY OPINION IS THE EARLY STAGES..........GL TEN Posted by TENOFSPADE
Thanks TENOFSPADES i am going to take this advice with me to the 15K primo tonight. x
borobabe (BB) ..Look there's not allot you can do about that kind of hand or the fact that you got called by someone who has picked up a straight draw on the flop As "Talon" says, maybe when player 'C' raised in front of you to 300 you then re- raised to 500 ( a bit thin here ) So here's the point to ask yourself .. A, was the 'min' re- raise to induce a call or re-raise, there by trapping with a big hand. or
B, were you wanting to see a flop in case an Ace came , at which point you could 'check' or 'bet' the 'turn' card ..
C, With KK and out of position after the initial raise .. 'min' re-raising isn't really the best option, in a tournament early stages.. I would have probably done one of two things.. either move all in, or more likely would have flat called to see the flop.
The thing here also is, did player 'C' have a big stack or was this around the beginning when your all about even chipped. Just reading the hand, as I say to many players once the 'flop' has been dealt you have to read what could be happening ... In this situation how can you blame yourself ??? You've hit top set !! There's not a player in the world who's not getting all their chips in now the way the hand has been played .. you've done nothing wrong.. Sure we could all say, ' Ah you should have gone all-in after player 'C' had raised in front of you but in the 'moment' we all try to think of our options, being that ' I need to get this hand 'heads-up'' however some times players think they want to get paid big for their 'BIG' hands and consequently let others in to 'outdraw' them.. These thoughts go through all players minds when playing 'BIG' hands pre-flop but in the early stages of tournaments it's all about survival and 'chip building' ... Ultimately there are hands and situations that clash and there's nothing you can do about those, you just have to put them down to the very nature of the game , sometimes it's 'JOY' .. sometimes it's 'PAIN" . To play tournament poker you have to accept there are times when you feel like your "handcuffed to a ghost' ..There are others when you feel like you've just won 'The Derby"
glk I'm sure you have a good game, the hard part is learning to deal with 'the "SWINGS" !!
In Response to When is enough enough : This is the problem right here. What you've quoted is a paradox. Poker is a game of people played with cards. It is not a game of cards played by people. Play the person, not the cards. Posted by BigBluster
Oooh - so true - what a great phrase.
I was playing in Luton recently and a great cash player, thinking I was tight passive, ( we haven't played together for a long time) raised my BB. I flat called with 2 5 off. The flop came A K 7 or something similar, I bet out. he had to fold saying 'I needed a different type of flop' so I showed the bluff saying 'so did I' . I knew he was raising with nothing because he was playing me, and if I called he had to assume I had picture cards or an ace.
borobabe (BB) ..Look there's not allot you can do about that kind of hand or the fact that you got called by someone who has picked up a straight draw on the flop As "Talon" says, maybe when player 'C' raised in front of you to 300 you then re- raised to 500 ( a bit thin here ) So here's the point to ask yourself .. A, was the 'min' re- raise to induce a call or re-raise, there by trapping with a big hand. or B, were you wanting to see a flop in case an Ace came , at which point you could 'check' or 'bet' the 'turn' card .. C, With KK and out of position after the initial raise .. 'min' re-raising isn't really the best option, in a tournament early stages.. I would have probably done one of two things.. either move all in, or more likely would have flat called to see the flop. The thing here also is, did player 'C' have a big stack or was this around the beginning when your all about even chipped. Just reading the hand, as I say to many players once the 'flop' has been dealt you have to read what could be happening ... In this situation how can you blame yourself ??? You've hit top set !! There's not a player in the world who's not getting all their chips in now the way the hand has been played .. you've done nothing wrong.. Sure we could all say, ' Ah you should have gone all-in after player 'C' had raised in front of you but in the 'moment' we all try to think of our options, being that ' I need to get this hand 'heads-up'' however some times players think they want to get paid big for their 'BIG' hands and consequently let others in to 'outdraw' them.. These thoughts go through all players minds when playing 'BIG' hands pre-flop but in the early stages of tournaments it's all about survival and 'chip building' ... Ultimately there are hands and situations that clash and there's nothing you can do about those, you just have to put them down to the very nature of the game , sometimes it's 'JOY' .. sometimes it's 'PAIN" . To play tournament poker you have to accept there are times when you feel like your "handcuffed to a ghost' ..There are others when you feel like you've just won 'The Derby" glk I'm sure you have a good game, the hard part is learning to deal with 'the "SWINGS" !! Posted by bennydip2
i did not raise much larger because i was waiting to see what the flop produced (Ace) but seen as tho no card were on the table at this point his raise was 3X the BB, my raise was in theory 5X the big blind (or does it not work like that)..still no cards on the table....the flop gave me the 3rd king....at that time Mr C was fishing for the straight based on the flop. This was early in the MTT & every1 was pretty even with the chips..... My beef being this has been happening alot to me just recently....i choose my cards (dont play every hand) & the flops are poor. I fold my cards & the flop produces????
Does playing larger price MTT guarantee me a better quality of player, as loosing smallamount regular doesn't seem to be paying off at the mo, or is that totally irrelevant also....
In Response to Re: When is enough enough : i did not raise much larger because i was waiting to see what the flop produced (Ace) but seen as tho no card were on the table at this point his raise was 3X the BB, my raise was in theory 5X the big blind (or does it not work like tat)..still no cards on the table....the flop gave me the 3rd king....at that time Mr C was fishing for the straight based on the flop. This was early in the MTT & every1 was pretty even with the chips..... My beef being this has been happening alot to me just recently....i choose my cards (dont play every hand) & the flops are poor. I fold my cards & the flop produces???? Does playing larger price MTT guarantee me a better quality of player, as loosing smallamount regular doesn't seem to be paying off at the mo, or is that totally irrelevant also.... Posted by borobabe09
Hi Borobabe
I woukd suggest not moving up tables, unless your bankroll can stand it, otherwise you will find yourself playing with whats called scared money, I.E more than you can afford, this will in turn produce worse poker Been there done it wore the T shirt and seen the video
As a point of interest, I started down at 30p dym,s and now at 1.15, s bankroll at £32.00, youi can do it
Us fish - like Crewe Alex in the cup will once in a while beat Everton, put us in the prem league and we'll finish bottom. Hope this helps. I'm a fish and proud of it. We all have to learn.
In Response to Re: When is enough enough : i did not raise much larger because i was waiting to see what the flop produced (Ace) but seen as tho no card were on the table at this point his raise was 3X the BB, my raise was in theory 5X the big blind (or does it not work like that)..still no cards on the table....the flop gave me the 3rd king....at that time Mr C was fishing for the straight based on the flop. This was early in the MTT & every1 was pretty even with the chips..... My beef being this has been happening alot to me just recently....i choose my cards (dont play every hand) & the flops are poor. I fold my cards & the flop produces????
Does playing larger price MTT guarantee me a better quality of player, as loosing smallamount regular doesn't seem to be paying off at the mo, or is that totally irrelevant also.... Posted by borobabe09
The first part is down to 'The SWINGS' or Variance that happen to all poker players, "Sometimes we run so good" !! Other times, "We cant hit our grannies a s s with a bango"
The answer about larger tournaments is maybe it would suite your game, but when playing online you meet all sorts of strange play , however it doesn't mean the players are bad , just unpredictable at any level !! It's really a game of Patience and being able to spot openings while keeping track of the 'blinds' and your opponents chip stack's .. glk I'm guessing your doing these things, but neither of use can guess what goes through the minds of others when we are sitting at a computer...........
Unfortunately, you will never get rid of the fish because you will find them at every level. Your game appears to be good so there's no need to change it much. We all go through stages like the one you're going through now, I spent the whole of October throwing my laptop around the room wondering how I could be so unlucky!! Full houses being beaten by quads on the river, sets beaten by straights, straights beaten by runner runner flushes..... the list goes on and on! Sometimes the poker gods just aren't with you. All it takes is one good run in a tourney and you'll be back to your best....HONEST!!
IT'S ALL IN THE MIND!!!
GL in the Primo, hopefully we'll see you on the final table and all will be well again! ;-)
In Response to Re: When is enough enough : i did not raise much larger because i was waiting to see what the flop produced (Ace) but seen as tho no card were on the table at this point his raise was 3X the BB, my raise was in theory 5X the big blind (or does it not work like that)..still no cards on the table....the flop gave me the 3rd king....at that time Mr C was fishing for the straight based on the flop. This was early in the MTT & every1 was pretty even with the chips..... My beef being this has been happening alot to me just recently....i choose my cards (dont play every hand) & the flops are poor. I fold my cards & the flop produces???? Does playing larger price MTT guarantee me a better quality of player, as loosing smallamount regular doesn't seem to be paying off at the mo, or is that totally irrelevant also.... Posted by borobabe09
I'm not sure what the Sky guys advocate here, but it seems a couple of poster have stated that they felt your reraise was a bit on the light side.
What I was always told was if you are the first into the pot pre flop then you raise by x BB.
However if you are looking to raise a raiser pre flop then dependant upon how many players are to act behind you then you should be looking to raise between 2 -4 times the initial raise, so in this case between 600 and 1200. Now with a premium hand you want a customer so you may look to raise to 600, however given that you have 2 players still to act as well as the blinds a raise of 900 may have been more appropriate.
With your raise of 500, player E was getting odds of approx 2-1 to call, which that player may have considered decent odds for his hand ( we dont know what this player had), once he came in pre flop then player c only needed to call 200 into a pot of apporx 1500, so had pre flop odds of 7-1 to call your raise. Once the flop came down you were going to struggle to get rid of him.
If you had made your raise 900 pre flop instead of 500, then player E would only be getting odds of 1.5 to 1, your reriase suggests strength and hence he would probably fold, or reriase you but unlikely to call. Player C would then be left with having to callout of position a bet of 600 for odds of approx 2-1. That in itself would get rid of a lot of players, but there are players like myself who in that situation look down and see a hand like 7,8 or 9 T and think for the 2-1 odds its worth calling pre flop, dependant upon how we view the reraiser, and see what the flop brings, however this wouldnt be based on what my cards are, but on how I view your game, and the likelyhood of getting paid if I hit big, as well as my chip stack.
I cant comment too much upon your style of play as Ive never played you, but cant argue with the advice given by others so far. The one post I would like to emphasise is the one by Big Bluster
Poker is a game of people played with cards. It is not a game of cards played by people. Play the person, not the cards.
I know you have not read any books, but if you do get a chance read page 18 of volume 1 of Harrington on Hold Em.
He states that there are 11 elements that need to be considered to justify if you have a playable hand or not. The cards you hold is the 11th thing he considers or says he considers, and that is why I wanted to quote Big Blusters post
I wish you the best of luck in the future and rest assured that proper play is more profitable than fishy play in the long term.
Unfortunately, you will never get rid of the fish because you will find them at every level. Your game appears to be good so there's no need to change it much. We all go through stages like the one you're going through now, I spent the whole of October throwing my laptop around the room wondering how I could be so unlucky!! Full houses being beaten by quads on the river, sets beaten by straights, straights beaten by runner runner flushes..... the list goes on and on! Sometimes the poker gods just aren't with you. All it takes is one good run in a tourney and you'll be back to your best....HONEST!! IT'S ALL IN THE MIND!!! GL in the Primo, hopefully we'll see you on the final table and all will be well again! ;-) Posted by DiggerMan
can you please tell me where i can find one of these laptops,
Like the majority above have said you are playing the way the game should be played... but on the flip side you sometimes need to mix your game & play those hands you wouldn't normally in order to confuse & bluff the other players. Just stick at it & try not to get wound up by bad beats, a lot of these fish's will be looking for you to go on tilt & you'll be playing right into their hands.
babe oh babe oh babe you is my m8y but, you is a feather in a windy day , but when this wind goes, to be sure to be sure your game will be one of greatness, you shall go forth and sometimes even better , maybe first, so now go my a little feather friend, and do not let these fish get to you , on a serious note , dohhhhhhhhh , you are a good player do not change your game, bet big from the off and take down the pots before the dreaded river . yours forever , the roving Irishman Posted by IRISHROVER
Lol Thanks IRISH you make me giggle from your little Feathered friend xx
Comments
Thanks again all.
xx
x
A, was the 'min' re- raise to induce a call or re-raise, there by trapping with a big hand. or
B, were you wanting to see a flop in case an Ace came , at which point you could 'check' or 'bet' the 'turn' card ..
C, With KK and out of position after the initial raise .. 'min' re-raising isn't really the best option, in a tournament early stages.. I would have probably done one of two things.. either move all in, or more likely would have flat called to see the flop.
The thing here also is, did player 'C' have a big stack or was this around the beginning when your all about even chipped.
Just reading the hand, as I say to many players once the 'flop' has been dealt you have to read what could be happening ...
In this situation how can you blame yourself ??? You've hit top set !!
There's not a player in the world who's not getting all their chips in now the way the hand has been played .. you've done nothing wrong.. Sure we could all say, ' Ah you should have gone all-in after player 'C' had raised in front of you but in the 'moment' we all try to think of our options, being that ' I need to get this hand 'heads-up'' however some times players think they want to get paid big for their 'BIG' hands and consequently let others in to 'outdraw' them..
These thoughts go through all players minds when playing 'BIG' hands pre-flop but in the early stages of tournaments it's all about survival and 'chip building' ...
Ultimately there are hands and situations that clash and there's nothing you can do about those, you just have to put them down to the very nature of the game , sometimes it's 'JOY' .. sometimes it's 'PAIN" .
To play tournament poker you have to accept there are times when you feel like your "handcuffed to a ghost' ..There are others when you feel like you've just won 'The Derby"
glk I'm sure you have a good game, the hard part is learning to deal with 'the "SWINGS" !!
Poker is a game of people played with cards. It is not a game of cards played by people.
Play the person, not the cards.
I was playing in Luton recently and a great cash player, thinking I was tight passive, ( we haven't played together for a long time) raised my BB. I flat called with 2 5 off. The flop came A K 7 or something similar, I bet out. he had to fold saying 'I needed a different type of flop' so I showed the bluff saying 'so did I' . I knew he was raising with nothing because he was playing me, and if I called he had to assume I had picture cards or an ace.
This was early in the MTT & every1 was pretty even with the chips.....
My beef being this has been happening alot to me just recently....i choose my cards (dont play every hand) & the flops are poor. I fold my cards & the flop produces????
Does playing larger price MTT guarantee me a better quality of player, as loosing smallamount regular doesn't seem to be paying off at the mo, or is that totally irrelevant also....
I woukd suggest not moving up tables, unless your bankroll can stand it, otherwise you will find yourself playing with whats called scared money, I.E more than you can afford, this will in turn produce worse poker Been there done it wore the T shirt and seen the video
As a point of interest, I started down at 30p dym,s and now at 1.15, s bankroll at £32.00, youi can do it
"Sometimes we run so good" !!
Other times, "We cant hit our grannies a s s with a bango"
The answer about larger tournaments is maybe it would suite your game, but when playing online you meet all sorts of strange play , however it doesn't mean the players are bad , just unpredictable at any level !!
It's really a game of Patience and being able to spot openings while keeping track of the 'blinds' and your opponents chip stack's ..
glk I'm guessing your doing these things, but neither of use can guess what goes through the minds of others when we are sitting at a computer...........
you is a feather in a windy day ,
but when this wind goes,
to be sure to be sure your game will be one of greatness,
you shall go forth and sometimes even better ,
maybe first,
so now go my a little feather friend,
and do not let these fish get to you ,
on a serious note ,
dohhhhhhhhh ,
you are a good player do not change your game,
bet big from the off and take down the pots before the dreaded river .
yours forever ,
the roving Irishman
IT'S ALL IN THE MIND!!!
GL in the Primo, hopefully we'll see you on the final table and all will be well again! ;-)
What I was always told was if you are the first into the pot pre flop then you raise by x BB.
However if you are looking to raise a raiser pre flop then dependant upon how many players are to act behind you then you should be looking to raise between 2 -4 times the initial raise, so in this case between 600 and 1200. Now with a premium hand you want a customer so you may look to raise to 600, however given that you have 2 players still to act as well as the blinds a raise of 900 may have been more appropriate.
With your raise of 500, player E was getting odds of approx 2-1 to call, which that player may have considered decent odds for his hand ( we dont know what this player had), once he came in pre flop then player c only needed to call 200 into a pot of apporx 1500, so had pre flop odds of 7-1 to call your raise. Once the flop came down you were going to struggle to get rid of him.
If you had made your raise 900 pre flop instead of 500, then player E would only be getting odds of 1.5 to 1, your reriase suggests strength and hence he would probably fold, or reriase you but unlikely to call. Player C would then be left with having to callout of position a bet of 600 for odds of approx 2-1. That in itself would get rid of a lot of players, but there are players like myself who in that situation look down and see a hand like 7,8 or 9 T and think for the 2-1 odds its worth calling pre flop, dependant upon how we view the reraiser, and see what the flop brings, however this wouldnt be based on what my cards are, but on how I view your game, and the likelyhood of getting paid if I hit big, as well as my chip stack.
I cant comment too much upon your style of play as Ive never played you, but cant argue with the advice given by others so far. The one post I would like to emphasise is the one by Big Bluster
Poker is a game of people played with cards. It is not a game of cards played by people.
Play the person, not the cards.
I know you have not read any books, but if you do get a chance read page 18 of volume 1 of Harrington on Hold Em.
He states that there are 11 elements that need to be considered to justify if you have a playable hand or not. The cards you hold is the 11th thing he considers or says he considers, and that is why I wanted to quote Big Blusters post
I wish you the best of luck in the future and rest assured that proper play is more profitable than fishy play in the long term.
can you please tell me where i can find one of these laptops,
Like the majority above have said you are playing the way the game should be played... but on the flip side you sometimes need to mix your game & play those hands you wouldn't normally in order to confuse & bluff the other players. Just stick at it & try not to get wound up by bad beats, a lot of these fish's will be looking for you to go on tilt & you'll be playing right into their hands.
Good Luck!!!
from your little Feathered friend
xx