i prefer to play mtt's to cash poker, and i kind of understand that there is more money to be made in cash poker. What i cannot quite get my head around is the difference in strategy between the two, because i would think that solid poker play would work well in both. Any quick examples of why they play different would be appreciated, for instance, with a given hand would you do one thing in a tt and something else in a cash game? ray Posted by Buistyboy
hello ray,
i think that its widely regarded that life changing amounts of money can actually be won in MTTS but cash can give a more consistant income. My personal preference is to play cash online, and MTTS live. Each to there own, but having sat at a few live cash tables, they can become fairly brutal! lol.
Cash game players always think they're better than us MTT players (probably because they make more money) and talk about 'donkaments'. Well this is a defence of tournament players:
Cash is boring. Fold, fold, fold. Just like tournament play, there are different approaches to cash.
Hands played between other opponents are still hugely significant (the winner can't just stand up and take the chips off the table). Hands played between other opponents are also interesting in cash. They change table dynamics and provide player information
You can win money without winning a single hand. I'm not sure that this is a great advert for MTTs even if it is true. I've cashed in STTs without playing a hand (or even being at the table) but I can't see anyone cashing in an MTT with a decent sized field.
If you get unlucky, you can only lose your buy-in and not your entire stack. That is entirely true but there are far better opportunites to make a regular profit in cash games.
The best cash players are usually poor tournaments players (particularly late on). Tell that to people like Phil Ivey, Patrik Antonius and Neil Channing.
You learn to play against moderate or poor opponents, as well as good ones. Cash games have their fair share of fish. Did you not watch "Master Cash" on Saturday?
You don't get stuck on one table with too many boring people for too long. Sharing a table with a group of friends for a long cash table can be highly entertaining.
Going on tilt (or getting drunk) doesn't ruin your month. A great advert for MTTs! "If you want to play when on tilt or drunk, play MTTs".
Robots can play cash to an extent. Robots can play any form of poker to an extent.The ability to play "down the streets" using reads built up over many sessions is a very useful human aspect to cash.
Tournaments reward action players. Cash definitely rewards action players.Some of the most successful cash players on SkyPoker are definitely "action" players.
You're not going to sit down with a tenner and stand up with 2 grand at a cash table. You can at a tourney table. 99.9% of tournament players aren't going to do this either.
A tournament is a warm, organic, living, breathing, evolving thing. Cash games are cold and frigid. Cash games definitely evolve. Their dynamics are constantly changing and are not dictated by a rising blind structure.
You need more patience in a cash game. Patience is just another way of saying "the ability to overcome boredom". That's an interesting definition of patience.I prefer "tolerant and even-tempered perseverance" or "the capacity for calmly enduring pain, trying situations".
Tournaments keep the live ones playing because sometimes they'll make a big score. Cash games have more than their share of "live ones".
The people are friendlier. I've had many of my friendliest games playing cash, sitting with a few "friends" on a regular basis. In MTTs the way that tables are broken up often restricts the ability to have decent conversations.
Posted by BigBluster
So, basically, I disagree with you. ;-)
There are lots of things to be said for all forms of poker. "Chacun a son gout" as the French would say. (Apologies for no accents on the letters, I'm unaware of how to achieve this).
Personally, I like to play cash, STTs and MTTs and would say that each have their merits although STTs are definitely the most "mechanical".
I keep away from cash now unless its low stakes less than a tenner as i always seemed to make £10 say into £25 then lose the lot on a daft/race hand. I think im far too much of a maniac on the cards to play cash for a profit. Dont get me wrong, i can play steady for 2-3 hours but always seem to do the 1 hand daft, in tourneys by this stage i may already be in the cash. in cash games ive lost the lot. At least i know my weakness and keep to what i know is my least worse format lol
W TF. Do you understand how your stack sizes dictate your play like 50pc of the time in MTT. In cash you can fold, fold fold and reload. But yeah in cash you can play a far wider range of hands because you are gonna be deepstacked. Hands played between other opponents are still hugely significant (the winner can't just stand up and take the chips off the table).
I have no idea what this means. You can win money without winning a single hand.
This is impossible. If you get unlucky, you can only lose your buy-in and not your entire stack.
W TF. If you get unlucky in a tournie and lose a tenner BI, to a fish play its gone and you no longer have the opportunity to sit back down and get the fish back. In cash you can lose and reload and get him back 5 hands later. Also if you lose a £10BI on MTT or a £10 stack on cash whats the difference. You make no sense. The best cash players are usually poor tournaments players (particularly late on).
No they aren't. Cash players are far more adaptable. It isn't hard to learn about stack sizes and pushing ranges. A lot of times in MTT you can just follow a list.
You learn to play against moderate or poor opponents, as well as good ones.
Yes cos in cash only good players play. You don't get stuck on one table with too many boring people for too long.
Yes because having some banter in the chat box OI OI />>>>>> developing reads and using them to your advantage.
Going on tilt (or getting drunk) doesn't ruin your month.
Yes it can. If you go on tilt in a MTT and bust out maybe that was the one tournie where the luck woulda been on your side and you woulda took down the £3k 1st place.
Robots can play cash to an extent. Tournaments reward action players.
You appear to have this the wrong way round. You do realise that Annette_15 once won an MTT without looking at her whole cards, simply using position? You also realise that on other sites people can play 50 STTs at once because it is easy to become a robot. You're not going to sit down with a tenner and stand up with 2 grand at a cash table. You can at a tourney table.
You are right, thats the only reason that I play tournies for the big cash. A tournament is a warm, organic, living, breathing, evolving thing. Cash games are cold and frigid.
I hvae no idea what you are on about.
You need more patience in a cash game. Patience is just another way of saying "the ability to overcome boredom".
wat
Tournaments keep the live ones playing because sometimes they'll make a big score.
This i'll admit. Tournies have a big elemnet of luck so yes big fish will win some big money, however there are nights on the cash tables where fish run like god and take a 100bb BI upto 500/600bb. This will generally have the same effect.
Cash is boring. Fold, fold, fold. W TF. Do you understand how your stack sizes dictate your play like 50pc of the time in MTT. In cash you can fold, fold fold and reload. But yeah in cash you can play a far wider range of hands because you are gonna be deepstacked. Hands played between other opponents are still hugely significant (the winner can't just stand up and take the chips off the table). I have no idea what this means.You can win money without winning a single hand. This is impossible. If you get unlucky, you can only lose your buy-in and not your entire stack. W TF. If you get unlucky in a tournie and lose a tenner BI, to a fish play its gone and you no longer have the opportunity to sit back down and get the fish back. In cash you can lose and reload and get him back 5 hands later. Also if you lose a £10BI on MTT or a £10 stack on cash whats the difference. You make no sense. The best cash players are usually poor tournaments players (particularly late on). No they aren't. Cash players are far more adaptable. It isn't hard to learn about stack sizes and pushing ranges. A lot of times in MTT you can just follow a list. You learn to play against moderate or poor opponents, as well as good ones. Yes cos in cash only good players play. You don't get stuck on one table with too many boring people for too long. Yes because having some banter in the chat box OI OI />>>>>> developing reads and using them to your advantage. Going on tilt (or getting drunk) doesn't ruin your month. Yes it can. If you go on tilt in a MTT and bust out maybe that was the one tournie where the luck woulda been on your side and you woulda took down the £3k 1st place. Robots can play cash to an extent. Tournaments reward action players. You appear to have this the wrong way round. You do realise that Annette_15 once won an MTT without looking at her whole cards, simply using position? You also realise that on other sites people can play 50 STTs at once because it is easy to become a robot. You're not going to sit down with a tenner and stand up with 2 grand at a cash table. You can at a tourney table. You are right, thats the only reason that I play tournies for the big cash. A tournament is a warm, organic, living, breathing, evolving thing. Cash games are cold and frigid. I hvae no idea what you are on about. You need more patience in a cash game. Patience is just another way of saying "the ability to overcome boredom". wat Tournaments keep the live ones playing because sometimes they'll make a big score. This i'll admit. Tournies have a big elemnet of luck so yes big fish will win some big money, however there are nights on the cash tables where fish run like god and take a 100bb BI upto 500/600bb. This will generally have the same effect. The people are friendlier. Ok. Posted by scotty77
This is possible scotty. i think he's saying if your in say a tourney and they are all idiots and knock each other out you can be in the money, however this is highly unlikely lol. P.S you dont hold back do you? hope i never write anything daft on this forum lol
This is possible scotty. i think he's saying if your in say a tourney and they are all idiots and knock each other out you can be in the money, however this is highly unlikely lol. P.S you dont hold back do you? hope i never write anything daft on this forum lol
Ok if you are in a fairly small field in an MTT, and a couple of players take 90pc of the field out in the first hour or so before you get blinded away, yes it is possible.
Yes all of my posts are daft. Reading them back I come across as such an idiot who has never played the game before.
Oh and one final thing there are far more fish on tournies than cash because people are attracted to the big headline figure. For example if you satellite into the Primo for like £5 you have a shot at taking down close to £4k. That brings so many fish to the party, and they will get lucky sometimes as we have all seen on the poker channel.
I am 90pc a cash player, have rarely looked into tournie strategy and only really started playing the tournies on here in the last year, despite beind on Sky for 3 years. Look at my sharkscope I would guess that it has far better stats than most people on here apart from Mr Greghogg., I so wish I had been playing tournies from day 1 when the open was like 300 runners. My ROI would be massive.
Touries havea more limited skill set. In cash you play poker. A lot of time in tournies you just play press the all in button.
I play a lot of cash at home, when we have pals round and I prefer this to a tourney we also run. But online I prefer the buzz of tournaments.
There are a number of posters on here who are very good cash players. I think that if we started a thread with cash tips/advice then you would be a convert in a week
But yeah I do understand why MTT/STT are enjoyed. It is a good way for newvbies to learn the ABCs of poker at a low risk to themselevs. Stuff like the forum low BI tournies are really good for the new players and they do provide an essential learning curve.
I have to admit the adrenaline rush and the satisfaction you get when you win a tourny with over 200 players is amazing. (cant be matched by cash in my opinion.)
I still play cash 90% of the time as the hands are played over all of the streets instead of mostly preflop.
I remember a hand durrrr and patrick played was so intresting the radio poker chat show talked about that hand for 5 hours.
Like scotty i reckon hale72 would be a good cash player as you think about poker on a deep level.
We need some more arguements for mtt's as this discussion was heating up lol :-)
I have to admit the adrenaline rush and the satisfaction you get when you win a tourny with over 200 players is amazing. (cant be matched by cash in my opinion.) I still play cash 90% of the time as the hands are played over all of the streets instead of mostly preflop. I remember a hand durrrr and patrick played was so intresting the radio poker chat show talked about that hand for 5 hours. Like scotty i reckon hale72 would be a good cash player as you think about poker on a deep level. We need some more arguements for mtt's as this discussion was heating up lol :-) Posted by DeuceAK-47
Who told you that load of bumf?
Is it me or does the timer bar creep down far slower on cash?? It just seems like every player uses it to the max.
This I found the main reason I dislike them so much online, I prefer quicker decision making.
I haven't got the patience for 2p/4p, nor have I got the roll for 25/50p based on 20bi fallback.
I much prefer the limited risk/limited reward of DYM's, my current balance is over 10 times my original deposit. On this basis, I will never get rich, but by the same token, I will NEVER go bust.
ARGUEING THE MERITS OF MTTS AND CASH IS LIKE COMPARING ONE DAY CRICKET TO TEST MATCHES. THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE IN COMMON IS THEY HAVE THE SAME BASIC RULES. LIKE CRICKET MOST BETTER PLAYER CAN PLAY ONE OR THE OTHER WELL. WHICH IS WHY WHEN A KEVIN PIETERSON OR PHIL IVEY COME ALONG THEY ARE QUITE RIGHTLY LORDED AS SUPERSTARS.
I prefer MTT - 1) I know how much I am going to lose beforehand 2) By knowing how much it is going to cost, I can better control my stack and manage my urge to go all in with 10 2 unsuited :-) 3) I know that if I am patient then the nutters will soon be out, and I can have an enjoyable game - they are in the cash games to. 4) More often than not, I will get about an hour or more play for my money.
In both format's very little chat - shame (posters freeroll excluded)
I think it depends what you want to get out of it really, and what suits you. For me, I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to grinding away and I don't enjoy multi-tabling so I'm not too fussed about cash. With a MTT I can pick one and play for a few hours then leave it till the next time. Also for me, I know I'm not going to set the poker world on fire just yet having only started just over a year ago, but I'm slowly, slowl,y picking more and more up whilst slowly gaining profit through tourneys, so I think the slow burning build of cash is suiting me as I'm getting more as i get better, whereas if I dropped into cash now I could easily blow it all very quickly.
I also like the value you get from tourneys, As said previous in the thread for one buy in you get a lot of time to play which is great if you just love playing - more so if it's a decent structure.
Saying all that I do drop into a cash game for the odd 20 min spell and won a bit.
Cash game players think theyre better because usually they actually are better. Playing with 100+bbs leads to tougher decisions so its a much harder skillset to learn. Tournaments rely too heavily on luck, there is a reason a lot of the best tourney players are staked. The variance is so high that sometimes its impossible to overcome no matter how good you are. In cash if you are good enough you will always make money in the long run.
In tourneys you can play amazing poker for hours and end up with nothing to show for it, or maybe double your buyin back. Not a great hourly.
Most of the great tourney players fail so miserably at cash. Most of the great cash players are profitable in tournaments. Mainly because tourney players lack good fundamentals.
Tournaments may be more fun(until you get knocked out on a bad beat)but in terms of skill level it isnt even close.
Comments
i think that its widely regarded that life changing amounts of money can actually be won in MTTS but cash can give a more consistant income. My personal preference is to play cash online, and MTTS live. Each to there own, but having sat at a few live cash tables, they can become fairly brutal! lol.
There are lots of things to be said for all forms of poker. "Chacun a son gout" as the French would say. (Apologies for no accents on the letters, I'm unaware of how to achieve this).
Personally, I like to play cash, STTs and MTTs and would say that each have their merits although STTs are definitely the most "mechanical".
W TF. Do you understand how your stack sizes dictate your play like 50pc of the time in MTT. In cash you can fold, fold fold and reload. But yeah in cash you can play a far wider range of hands because you are gonna be deepstacked.
Hands played between other opponents are still hugely significant (the winner can't just stand up and take the chips off the table).
I have no idea what this means.
You can win money without winning a single hand.
This is impossible.
If you get unlucky, you can only lose your buy-in and not your entire stack.
W TF. If you get unlucky in a tournie and lose a tenner BI, to a fish play its gone and you no longer have the opportunity to sit back down and get the fish back. In cash you can lose and reload and get him back 5 hands later. Also if you lose a £10BI on MTT or a £10 stack on cash whats the difference. You make no sense.
The best cash players are usually poor tournaments players (particularly late on).
No they aren't. Cash players are far more adaptable. It isn't hard to learn about stack sizes and pushing ranges. A lot of times in MTT you can just follow a list.
You learn to play against moderate or poor opponents, as well as good ones.
Yes cos in cash only good players play.
You don't get stuck on one table with too many boring people for too long.
Yes because having some banter in the chat box OI OI />>>>>> developing reads and using them to your advantage.
Going on tilt (or getting drunk) doesn't ruin your month.
Yes it can. If you go on tilt in a MTT and bust out maybe that was the one tournie where the luck woulda been on your side and you woulda took down the £3k 1st place.
Robots can play cash to an extent. Tournaments reward action players.
You appear to have this the wrong way round. You do realise that Annette_15 once won an MTT without looking at her whole cards, simply using position? You also realise that on other sites people can play 50 STTs at once because it is easy to become a robot.
You're not going to sit down with a tenner and stand up with 2 grand at a cash table. You can at a tourney table.
You are right, thats the only reason that I play tournies for the big cash.
A tournament is a warm, organic, living, breathing, evolving thing. Cash games are cold and frigid.
I hvae no idea what you are on about.
You need more patience in a cash game. Patience is just another way of saying "the ability to overcome boredom".
wat
Tournaments keep the live ones playing because sometimes they'll make a big score.
This i'll admit. Tournies have a big elemnet of luck so yes big fish will win some big money, however there are nights on the cash tables where fish run like god and take a 100bb BI upto 500/600bb. This will generally have the same effect.
The people are friendlier.
Ok.
SCOTTY 5/6
Ok if you are in a fairly small field in an MTT, and a couple of players take 90pc of the field out in the first hour or so before you get blinded away, yes it is possible.
Yes all of my posts are daft. Reading them back I come across as such an idiot who has never played the game before.
Oh and one final thing there are far more fish on tournies than cash because people are attracted to the big headline figure. For example if you satellite into the Primo for like £5 you have a shot at taking down close to £4k. That brings so many fish to the party, and they will get lucky sometimes as we have all seen on the poker channel.
I am 90pc a cash player, have rarely looked into tournie strategy and only really started playing the tournies on here in the last year, despite beind on Sky for 3 years. Look at my sharkscope I would guess that it has far better stats than most people on here apart from Mr Greghogg., I so wish I had been playing tournies from day 1 when the open was like 300 runners. My ROI would be massive.
Touries havea more limited skill set. In cash you play poker. A lot of time in tournies you just play press the all in button.
I didn't realise there was so much rivalry between the stt/mtt bunch and the cash bunch.
Reminds me of the mods and rockers.
Both have their advantages/disadvantages I suppose.
I hate getting bust out of an mtt/stt with some donk playing k2. At least in cash, you can reload and get it back.
I play a lot of cash at home, when we have pals round and I prefer this to a tourney we also run. But online I prefer the buzz of tournaments.
There are a number of posters on here who are very good cash players. I think that if we started a thread with cash tips/advice then you would be a convert in a week
But yeah I do understand why MTT/STT are enjoyed. It is a good way for newvbies to learn the ABCs of poker at a low risk to themselevs. Stuff like the forum low BI tournies are really good for the new players and they do provide an essential learning curve.
I have to admit the adrenaline rush and the satisfaction you get when you win a tourny with over 200 players is amazing. (cant be matched by cash in my opinion.)
I still play cash 90% of the time as the hands are played over all of the streets instead of mostly preflop.
I remember a hand durrrr and patrick played was so intresting the radio poker chat show talked about that hand for 5 hours.
Like scotty i reckon hale72 would be a good cash player as you think about poker on a deep level.
We need some more arguements for mtt's as this discussion was heating up lol :-)
Is it me or does the timer bar creep down far slower on cash?? It just seems like every player uses it to the max.
This I found the main reason I dislike them so much online, I prefer quicker decision making.
I haven't got the patience for 2p/4p, nor have I got the roll for 25/50p based on 20bi fallback.
I much prefer the limited risk/limited reward of DYM's, my current balance is over 10 times my original deposit. On this basis, I will never get rich, but by the same token, I will NEVER go bust.
ARGUEING THE MERITS OF MTTS AND CASH IS LIKE COMPARING ONE DAY CRICKET TO TEST MATCHES. THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE IN COMMON IS THEY HAVE THE SAME BASIC RULES. LIKE CRICKET MOST BETTER PLAYER CAN PLAY ONE OR THE OTHER WELL. WHICH IS WHY WHEN A KEVIN PIETERSON OR PHIL IVEY COME ALONG THEY ARE QUITE RIGHTLY LORDED AS SUPERSTARS.
1) I know how much I am going to lose beforehand
2) By knowing how much it is going to cost, I can better control my stack and manage my urge to go all in with 10 2 unsuited :-)
3) I know that if I am patient then the nutters will soon be out, and I can have an enjoyable game - they are in the cash games to.
4) More often than not, I will get about an hour or more play for my money.
In both format's very little chat - shame (posters freeroll excluded)
Also for me, I know I'm not going to set the poker world on fire just yet having only started just over a year ago, but I'm slowly, slowl,y picking more and more up whilst slowly gaining profit through tourneys, so I think the slow burning build of cash is suiting me as I'm getting more as i get better, whereas if I dropped into cash now I could easily blow it all very quickly.
I also like the value you get from tourneys, As said previous in the thread for one buy in you get a lot of time to play which is great if you just love playing - more so if it's a decent structure.
Saying all that I do drop into a cash game for the odd 20 min spell and won a bit.
In tourneys you can play amazing poker for hours and end up with nothing to show for it, or maybe double your buyin back. Not a great hourly.
Most of the great tourney players fail so miserably at cash. Most of the great cash players are profitable in tournaments. Mainly because tourney players lack good fundamentals.
Tournaments may be more fun(until you get knocked out on a bad beat)but in terms of skill level it isnt even close.