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What is the right move
Luke_Jones
Member Posts: 33
wa down to the last 6 in a tourney big difference between 6-5 place pay-out. blinds are 20k - 40k
I raise utg 100k with A-10 my stack after raise is about 400k folds too the big blind who calls his stack about 800k. been on his table for a while bluffs alot saw him make alot of move's tricky player. the fop is 732 all hearts i have no heart and bb checks to me now the pot is 220k i have i nearly timed out just being checked too my thinking is if i continuation bet this guy is not folding on this board i know he liked to float alot and just from playing with him im 80% sure he is not going to give up on this pot on that board. sounds stupid but i'm in possision i feel i should have the best hand but i could not work out what too do if i bet i think he will shove. he might call and bet on the turn. basicly im confident if i bet out he is going to shove on me or float and bet out on the turn what ever come's. My first way out was too insta shove and take it down there and then but i didn't want to gift him if he had a hand. But after thinking this what i choose to do i was confident if i checked he will bet out on the turn giving me then control to shove over the top. the turn came a 6 he called the shove and actually had the same hand and made the flush on the river. But i'am intrested in what people would have done in this situation
To explain more my big problem in this hand i dont/cant be bet folding cuz of my stack size. even after the hand i'm still not 100% what the best move was here look foward for what other's would have done
I raise utg 100k with A-10 my stack after raise is about 400k folds too the big blind who calls his stack about 800k. been on his table for a while bluffs alot saw him make alot of move's tricky player. the fop is 732 all hearts i have no heart and bb checks to me now the pot is 220k i have i nearly timed out just being checked too my thinking is if i continuation bet this guy is not folding on this board i know he liked to float alot and just from playing with him im 80% sure he is not going to give up on this pot on that board. sounds stupid but i'm in possision i feel i should have the best hand but i could not work out what too do if i bet i think he will shove. he might call and bet on the turn. basicly im confident if i bet out he is going to shove on me or float and bet out on the turn what ever come's. My first way out was too insta shove and take it down there and then but i didn't want to gift him if he had a hand. But after thinking this what i choose to do i was confident if i checked he will bet out on the turn giving me then control to shove over the top. the turn came a 6 he called the shove and actually had the same hand and made the flush on the river. But i'am intrested in what people would have done in this situation
To explain more my big problem in this hand i dont/cant be bet folding cuz of my stack size. even after the hand i'm still not 100% what the best move was here look foward for what other's would have done
Comments
What would you do if someone shoves over your 2.5x raise?
Personally UTG I would have folded pre especially with the info you have on the Big Blind player
Agree with freechips, if you don't like the fold pre option then it's a shove pre
Dave
You cant put 20% of your stack in then fold with 12bb.
pot is 660k you have to call 400k to win 660k.
Vs villans shoving range we are better than 40% so we have to call.
Its better to shove pre as we will make people fold lots of hands that will 3bet shove on us, 22-99 being a few of them.
As i said fold or shove pre, make it easy for yourself.
But like i said i'am at BEST racing calling or being called on a shove. I dont need to gamble i play poker i actually only was allin once in this 10 hour tourney
The game had been played so tight getting to this stage this is why the blinds are so high and so many people left in the game it's nearly a super turbo game at the min and alot of luck was now comming in to it there was a few of the weaker players that was just folding or shoving but if i shove 100% of my stack witch would of been about 60% of most of the remaining players stack i'am not getting called with a weaker hand
i know alot of players think this way with 10bb shove or fold rule but on you saying you cant fold after betting 20% of my stack. if i get re-raised in that spot and there not expecting me too fold WHYYYY the **** would i call lol i know i know most players agree with the 10bb or less shove or fold. I dont agree with somtime's this is the case yes somtimes but not when the blinds get high and people have less play left a min raise gets walks. but the big thing is WE DONT HAVE TO CALL cash game i'm in yes i have to call. tournement when 2 double up's make's me the chip leader why when i'm best racing i cant re-buy i can find a better spot i can still grind a bit higher up the ladder.
The point is if you decide to shove with over 10bb someone won't have good odds to call you unless they have a strong hand, and so you stand a chance of a walk because they are forced to decide if they have enough to call you. However, you min raise and they shove on you and then you are the one facing the tough choice if you are at all weak.
Lets look at this hand in question. If you had min raised and the guy had shoved on you, would you have folded? you gie the impression you would have by your posts after your orginal. So you would have effectively tossed 20% of your stack away with the same hand. If you fold you lose nothing, and if you shoved preflop the guy with A10 "may" have worried about a shove from UTG and folded it. Impossible to say, as he may have called, but if he does you have the same hand and likely chop. The fact is you point the choice ON THEM, rather than yourself.
No harm I guess to fold this spot as its marginal A10 UTG, but raise at your stack is not really a good mathematical play at your stack size. Anyway, play your game how you wish as i said, but maybe read up on the reasons why people do advocate the shove/fold princibles at 10bb or less.
The player on the BB was a tricky player but he was a good player and i don't see him calling with me ahead unless at best racing. maybe i should of just folded pre but my big problem was the flop had any pictuer or even a 9 it's somthing i can bet at if i was in his situation and i bet out on the flop i would of punished me myself.
It was a £35 buyin 180 runner. 6th was about £260, 5th £380. 1st £1800 i know i have to get some luck of the cards to get the 1st cuz of how high the blinds but i'd rather be going gun ho if you like down to 4 player's i was still playing aggressive at this point but becaouse 3 of the players was shoving or folding i know there is going to be some showdowns before i'm dead in chips
A funny thing in this hand if i had shoved with A 10 suited and got called with A 10 and lost i would of been abit sick lol
But going back on it again like i say i dont like the idea of just shoving straight out. I think just folding A 10, 6 handed is too weak i dont have much longer to waite for hands. i know he hasn't called me with anything i put him on KQ small pair if he had small pair i couldn't take the pot if he had K or Q of hearts i think he calls me i think when i have taken so long and can't think of a way to take this pot down i could of gave up and tryed to get a cheap show down?
although again if he dont have the nut flush draw when i shove the turn i take it down.
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If i changed this question around and said i was sat on a 6 handed table a guy went allin UTG with 12BB and it's the first time i have seen him go allin the hole tournment how strong of do i need to be to call him forgetting the BB there is still other player's in the hand and obviously the answer would be you need a strong hand too call, this guy dont put all his chips in light there for if i get called i'am way behind right so i will say it again some give me a REASON to shove 12BB at this stage of a tournment when everyone is faily close in chips and all i'am saying is i hope nobody has a big hand and if i'am i'm out that is not poker for me.
UTG its marginal, shove wouldn't be bad, folding wouldn't be bad.
However what you can't do, I repeat CAN'T DO, is raise/fold with that stack. There is simply no logical reason for doing it.
Just make your life sooooooo much easier, shove or fold pre. Simples.
Ok like i said i UNDERSTAND the reason to shove i know somtime's this is the case this 6 handed table i'am in is not.I know it's differen't too how alot of people play i have played in a tournment with 5k people and i wasn't allin once till the last 38 i know this is just my game and how i play. But this tournement here is at a stage where i have 3 players doing nothing but going alling or folding thats it nothing else i have raised 4 times in a row 2.5x from the button and got a walk. everybody is around the same amount of chips and i have 3 guys just going allin or folding if i wake up with a hand or somone else of the table wake's up with a hand while these are doing this not only will i move up in the prizes with this but with less players the more i can play poker. and another thing on this i just been to look at that helps my argument lol is the 3 players shove/folding guess what they came 5th 4th and 3rd