If min-raising tempts players (particularly the blinds) to come along with weak holdings, then that's good for us. As long as we play in position we'll win alot more than we lose and if they call with weak holdings when we have strong holdings, just because we've min-raised, then we make even more money.
If someone perceives a min-raise from us as weak when we're actually doing it with our entire range we should be happy and that's a great argument in favour of min-raising.
The difference between a min-raise and a 2.1x raise is purely psychological. Our opponents ocassionally think that clicking min-raise is automatic but if we've made it 2.1x we've obviously thought about it and we must be a "cunning" player: Silly people, us poker players. lol
The big issue I have with Sky poker players is the min-raise AFTER the flop. I genuinely think this happens more on Sky because players hear pros and analysts on 861 saying that "min-raising in tournament play is good" and don't realise that they're referring to pre-flop ONLY.
Min-raising after the flop generally telegraphs your hand and while it may seem like you're gaining extra value, you usually only succeed in causing your opponent to lock-up and not make another bet. Make a "proper" raise or just call and let your opponent keep firing. You'll almost always get more value this way.
Sounds like someone actually asked about this. They didn't.. It just gets on my wick. lol
Think min-raising is seen as weak/strong the same as overbetting a pot. Play live more than here, but im not folding my big blind to a min-raise EVER. If i have a whole table of callers then im priced in, if someone has min-raised on the button im assuming its a weak attempt at a steal. If i have 100 already in and im asked for another 100 to see a flop i am personally ALWAYS going to see the flop on the off-chance i hit the nuts. Priced in as it were. Unless im massive deep in a tournie and just my BB is a big blow to my stack. Then ill fold. However if i have 100 in and im asked for another 150/200, that does, for some reason, mean im folding if i dont have the goods. Rather odd really. Probobly just cus im a massive donknoobfish. Posted by Jeronimo7
100% cbetting opponent do u still call knowing your only going to hit 1 in every 3 flops and even then it could easily be BPBK you flop.
Also Sky should allow you to type in the amount you want to raise to IN TOTAL, regardless of what you have put in on that street. FOR EXAMPLE- if i am in the BB for 150, & btn raises to 325, i might want to 3bet to 795, i dont want to have to take that figure and subtract my 150 from it, then type in 645 and raise. It should just be type 795 and press Enter. Posted by pr1nnyraid
never raise the same every time or your predictable, mix it up 2x 2.3 2.5 3 or 4 then no one knows what you have, so many times i see players raising the same amount every time with certain types of cards and i can get a read on there range by the betting size. Of coarse it mainly depends on your stack size if your short you dont wanna set your self up to get commited only to miss and be in a bad situation. If your stacked with a decent amount you can play around with it a bit more. Its all about who and how many your generaly against.
never raise the same every time or your predictable, mix it up 2x 2.3 2.5 3 or 4 then no one knows what you have, so many times i see players raising the same amount every time with certain types of cards and i can get a read on there range by the betting size. Of coarse it mainly depends on your stack size if your short you dont wanna set your self up to get commited only to miss and be in a bad situation. If your stacked with a decent amount you can play around with it a bit more. Its all about who and how many your generaly against. Posted by Dazler
or always raise the same amount whatever your hand strength, no reads this way either.
never raise the same every time or your predictable, mix it up 2x 2.3 2.5 3 or 4 then no one knows what you have, so many times i see players raising the same amount every time with certain types of cards and i can get a read on there range by the betting size. Of coarse it mainly depends on your stack size if your short you dont wanna set your self up to get commited only to miss and be in a bad situation. If your stacked with a decent amount you can play around with it a bit more. Its all about who and how many your generaly against. Posted by Dazler
Pretty much, using the same raise size at each level of an MTT, is the most inexploitable way to play.
Trying to 'mix it up' when stacks are shallow later on, is almost certainly going to result in you giving information away, or create situations where you are in difficulties due to effective stack size.
The exception to this is changing your raise size due to the effective stacks behind you, still to act.
For instance, if you are on the button, and both the SB and BB have 9BB stacks, and you have 35BB's, then any hand you are raising, you may as well jam.
But if the SB has 25BB's, and the BB has 9BB's then open to your normal size.
In Response to Re: Raise sizing according to James Hartigan from last nights show : or always raise the same amount whatever your hand strength, no reads this way either. Posted by Mohican
what i mean by this is a lot of players only min raise all the time with drawing hands raises it 3 times with AK AQ and 4x raise it with pk pairs. So if you just raise exactly the same amount every hand then it becomes harder to narrow the field or you cant represent something that you might not have or disguise a monster . If you raise differently constantly i think it can work in your favour more. If i raise 3x bb with AK in one scenario and then only raise it 2x or limp on another occassion they will have no clue and trappng can then come into play. Depends on the type of player you are, if you multi table and just play ABC poker then nothing wrong in keeping to a routine way of playing as long as its not to predictable which when multi tabling it can become that way.
In Response to Re: Raise sizing according to James Hartigan from last nights show : Pretty much, using the same raise size at each level of an MTT, is the most inexploitable way to play. Trying to 'mix it up' when stacks are shallow later on, is almost certainly going to result in you giving information away, or create situations where you are in difficulties due to effective stack size. The exception to this is changing your raise size due to the effective stacks behind you, still to act. For instance, if you are on the button, and both the SB and BB have 9BB stacks, and you have 35BB's, then any hand you are raising, you may as well jam. But if the SB has 25BB's, and the BB has 9BB's then open to your normal size. Posted by jakally
massive +1.
If im honest i have set raise sizes for different levels. I try to stick to these but change as jakally says for different situations.
I find raising 2x - 2.2x in a small stakes deepstack or BH tends to get multiple callers which can never be a good thing, you have to raise to 3x or even 4x to get the raise through with just one caller the majority of the time, especially in the early to mid stages. It is towards the later stages where I find you can start reducing the raise size and get more respect......or is this just me??
Should you adjust your raise sizing accordingly? James is taking about main events where the quality of the field tends to be stronger resulting in raises getting more respect.
Don't need antes when the tourneys are structered correctly as most now are. What I mean tikay is give me an option to have a bb x2.2 button like I can on another site instead of having to use the standard bet sizw buttons or having to type in amount or pixx about with slider. Posted by SoLack
OK, have spoken to Adam, & he tells me this IS in the "desired functionality" List.
1) It will NOT be done on the current Flash-based tables.
2) It is on the list for the new Tables (mid-year) on the new client, though they will launch the basic table first, then stuff like this will be added.
Tikay10 Posts: 15748 First: 20/5/2009 Last: 16/7/2012 In Response to Re: Sky Poker Software, & "IT" : Don't need antes when the tourneys are structered correctly as most now are. What I mean tikay is give me an option to have a bb x2.2 button like I can on another site instead of having to use the standard bet sizw buttons or having to type in amount or pixx about with slider. Posted by SoLack OK, have spoken to Adam, & he tells me this IS in the "desired functionality" List. 1) It will NOT be done on the current Flash-based tables. 2) It is on the list for the new Tables (mid-year) on the new client, though they will launch the basic table first, then stuff like this will be added. Posted by belsibub
I find raising 2x - 2.2x in a small stakes deepstack or BH tends to get multiple callers which can never be a good thing, you have to raise to 3x or even 4x to get the raise through with just one caller the majority of the time, especially in the early to mid stages. It is towards the later stages where I find you can start reducing the raise size and get more respect......or is this just me?? Should you adjust your raise sizing accordingly? James is taking about main events where the quality of the field tends to be stronger resulting in raises getting more respect. Posted by waller02
I want to address this personally to you in reply since i shared your table with you in the £1 cheapstack in the DTD last night.
Going to post 2 hands in responce i think will be a valid reply. Both hands same table and will be against the same oppo. Both times you are on the table.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
x
Small blind
100.00
100.00
14812.00
The_Don90
Big blind
200.00
300.00
11646.00
Your hole cards
J
J
waller02
Fold
Gullyman
Fold
nobarks
Fold
banjo518
Fold
x
Call
100.00
400.00
14712.00
The_Don90
Raise
466.00
866.00
11180.00
x
Call
466.00
1332.00
14246.00
Flop
7
4
7
x
Check
The_Don90
Bet
777.00
2109.00
10403.00
x
Fold
The_Don90
Muck
The_Don90
Win
1332.00
11735.00
The_Don90
Return
777.00
0.00
12512.00
Hand one is maybe a bit results orientated. However we have Jacks. One limper (i probably should open bigger in this spot tbh). However i open for a normalish 2.33x raise. I only get one caller - the limper. This is in a £1 tournament. Often enough the one cbet is going to take it down.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
x
Small blind
200.00
200.00
24657.00
The_Don90
Big blind
400.00
600.00
9912.00
Your hole cards
A
9
waller02
Fold
Peasant
Fold
nobarks
Fold
banjo518
Fold
x
Raise
600.00
1200.00
24057.00
The_Don90
All-in
9912.00
11112.00
0.00
x
Call
9512.00
20624.00
14545.00
x
Show
5
A
The_Don90
Show
A
9
Flop
9
5
6
Turn
6
River
5
x
Win
Full House, 5s and 6s
20624.00
35169.00
Hand 2, This is proof that if their going to call, their going to call. My 25x 3bet shove is actually a value shove here, against this particular opponent. I Know i was annoyed at the time but thats me. Anyways so there we go, same oppo, im confident of having it Heads up pot with this oppo alot with a 2.33x raise. But i also am confident he will call 25BB pre with worse than A9o. And on this occassion i was correct. I believe he busted to another opponent 2 hands later.
I've brought these two hands up to show i don't think you need to 3x or 4x in these tournaments. Certainly not past 25/50 anyways.
I only use 3x and 4 x in first two levels, then its always under 3x gradually decreasing throughout the levels. e.g 4x , 3x, 2.75x 2.5x 2.25x and then usually 2.000000000000000000000000001x
Dependent on others stacks and whats happened prior to my action ofcourse
Comments
this is why raise sizes have got smaller ) exploit the weak !
If someone perceives a min-raise from us as weak when we're actually doing it with our entire range we should be happy and that's a great argument in favour of min-raising.
The difference between a min-raise and a 2.1x raise is purely psychological. Our opponents ocassionally think that clicking min-raise is automatic but if we've made it 2.1x we've obviously thought about it and we must be a "cunning" player: Silly people, us poker players. lol
I think you should be able to set your own buttons up
Min-raising after the flop generally telegraphs your hand and while it may seem like you're gaining extra value, you usually only succeed in causing your opponent to lock-up and not make another bet. Make a "proper" raise or just call and let your opponent keep firing. You'll almost always get more value this way.
Sounds like someone actually asked about this. They didn't.. It just gets on my wick. lol
Every raise is situational innit-- If the whole table limps round to you in bb with QQ, are you gonna raise it 2.1x?
New standard raise size---lol
If im honest i have set raise sizes for different levels. I try to stick to these but change as jakally says for different situations.
Should you adjust your raise sizing accordingly? James is taking about main events where the quality of the field tends to be stronger resulting in raises getting more respect.
genius !
7 options plus slider and all-in.
First: 20/5/2009
Last: 16/7/2012
Posted by SoLack
OK, have spoken to Adam, & he tells me this IS in the "desired functionality" List.
1) It will NOT be done on the current Flash-based tables.
2) It is on the list for the new Tables (mid-year) on the new client, though they will launch the basic table first, then stuff like this will be added.
Going to post 2 hands in responce i think will be a valid reply. Both hands same table and will be against the same oppo. Both times you are on the table.
I've brought these two hands up to show i don't think you need to 3x or 4x in these tournaments. Certainly not past 25/50 anyways.
I only use 3x and 4 x in first two levels, then its always under 3x gradually decreasing throughout the levels.
e.g 4x , 3x, 2.75x 2.5x 2.25x and then usually 2.000000000000000000000000001x
Dependent on others stacks and whats happened prior to my action ofcourse