Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play - ONE.

Tikay10

Here's the first of this week's three questions. Please vote as you see fit, but the key thing is, please tell us WHAT you Voted for, and WHY.

Even if you have only just started playing, give it a go, & maybe it will help others help you. And don't worry - nobody will mock or berate you if you give a reasoning which is out of line.

We want lots of answers, & lots of debate about those answers. We will go through the play of these hands on the Show, too.

OK, first one.

Perfect Flop for our hand - but should we Pass?

10 seater Cash-table, £0.05 - £0.10, relevant stacks are....

Cut-Off - £14.00

SB - £11.25

BB £17.00

We are in Cut-off with Ah Kd.

We RAISE to £0.40, & the SB & BB BOTH Call.

SB has been Tight-Passive, BB has been Tight Aggressive.

Flop = Kh, 6s, 9s

SB leads out for £1

BB now Re-Raises to £3!

Do we......

a) Call

b) Raise

c) Fold

Use the Voting Options above, please.

mabsue

AGAINST A TIGHT AGGRESSIVE PLAYER I WOULD WANT TO ELIMINATE THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING BET OF THE POT IF ANOTHER SPADE COMES SO THAT WHY I WOULD RAISE I HAVE TOP PAIR TOP KICKER I WOULD WANT TO DEFINE THE STRENTGH OF MY HAND RIGHT THERE AND THEN IF HE HAS A SET I THINK HE WILL PUSH

darich

Fold for me.

The BB is a TAG player, and has already raised to £3. If i raise I commit my whole stack with one pair, and there are no obvious re draws, so my hand isn't going to improve, therefore not much point calling imo.

When the TAG raises I don't think one pair is good enough here, so I'd pass

darich

For the record if I was deeper stacked here I would re raise, but imo I'm too shallow with £14 to be able to re raise and then fold 

BigBluster

There is absolutely no way you're folding here. Would these 2 tight players have called your PF raise with K6 or K9? No.
If they have 66 or 99 (discarding kk for obvious reasons) then you're just going to have to pay them off.

Raise and shove.

SolarCarro

I raise as I don't think a TAG would call the initial raise with K9 or K6, doesn't look like AA either, for me the likelihood is he has caught K with a Q or J kicker, a raise will prob induce a fold do I go to £6, I fold to a re-raise from him. He may be on the flush draw and that may be hard to get him off but still I raise.

Dave

scotty77

SB, while being tight passive, can easily be donking here with loads of weird Ks.

BB can also be on weird Ks but I think its more likely that he has a spade draw.

I voted for call.  Ship it on any non spade turn.  Fold on a spade turn. If we raise here the spade draws come anyway at a 35pc shot.  If the turn is a blank, ie 3d, then we reduce their equity greatly and with 110bb behind then they can't really call for the draw.  Also the call disguises the strength of our hand and lots of worse Ks will ship it in too on a blank turn.

If we flat call the flop, and the SB ships and the BB then calls the AI then we fold.

BTW raising in this spot is so so bad.  We are only getting called here by bigger hands OTF or spade draws.  A KQ/KJ/KT can easily fold to a flop 4bet so we get no value at all from hands we are beating, apart from spade draws in which case they are coming along now because their raises have priced themseleves in.

DOHHHHHHH

Assuming we are playing within our bank roll, its an automatic all in.

I will always argue, that if youre gonna play AK in that position, n the flop comes A/K high, you have to assume u r winning! If ur losing, then hard lines. hes called u pre with a nonsense hand! Just have to work hard to get it back! re raise all in for me! cnt really see an argument for any other play!

DOHH

namesb0nd

i raise,i am very confident that i am ahead here despite the tight play of my opponents.

bennydip2

Im raising  to  6 pound....  because if ive raised 4xBB preflop and got callers Ive got top pair  top kicker I don't want possible spade flush draws getting a cheap card !!  If someone has flopped a set .. well I'm unlucky but  if I flat call probably the SB calls the extra 1 50 and I don't know where I am when the turn card comes .....all ive done there is let one of the players have a chance to outdraw me
If  I get a caller and the board pairs (no flush) I'm all in because I don't think they've raised preflop with any 6 or 9 in there hand ...any rag  on the turn, same bet continuation ...
If a spade comes, and one player was chasing a flush then I'm unlucky ... The thing is If ive raised preflop  and hit one  of the two cards A or K that I was looking for against two players,
 what hole cards did they have pocket pairs maybe  ...but ive got the odds  with that flop so I'm committed to the pot ....ready to re-load if ive got unlucky   that's the 'Swings' or (variance)   

Stretcher bearer player coming   )

Majj

As Big Bluster says, I don't think 2 pair is an option. Someone with a King, someone with a flush draw? The only decent raise you can make here is all in really, otherwise you're leaving less than half your stack behind, but personally with 2 opponents it's highly unlikely both have outkicked kings so there has to be a flush draw or a set and I don't like my chances against that. If I'm deeper stacked I put in a bet which doesn't give them odds to draw and then shut down if I see a reraise but in this situation I......fold? Yeah, fold.

Majj

By the way, great to see people voting for each option and explaining - Each post kind of makes me agree, until the next one. Basically I've said how I'd have thought about it but I could be swayed

SwansFC

Both are tight so both might have a hand, personally I am pushing and thinking if he has AA good luck to him, obviously both don't and I am sure if they did they would come over the top, I think my AK is good with at worst a split pot, don't think the tight player would raise on a draw so I am thinking I am winning at that point, raise all in would be my choice.

DiggerMan

I would raise all-in! I wouldn't want to be folding TPTK on that board and if I call, the SB will come along or even re-raise so I've got more chance of taking the hand down by re-raising now. It's unlikey either of the opponents called the original raise with K6 or K9 so unless the SB has the other two Ks (possible!!!) he should fold to the raise and the all-in. That leaves the BB blind. If he's got a set he'll call and I'm in big trouble but if not he's on a pair or a draw, either way it's tough to call!
Of course, you can only do this if you're playing within your bankroll and are prepared to re-load when (as often happens) it all goes horribly, horribly wrong!!!

jimbo31

i fold.... the action in front of me screams of 2pair and a bit of set mining.... given the TAG has reraised...begging for a call....even though im not a cash player think i would still do this in an mtt...(just voted for raise but changed my mind) ;-)

BonnyBonz

Re-Raise, probably all-in, as the re-raise pretty much pot commits me anyhow. He may have a set, maybe even 2 pair (less likely) but probably has KQ or KJ and maybe the flush draw as well, but I'm to strong to fold even against a TAG.

LadyFingrs

This is kind of a gross spot, but theres tons of hands in both ranges we're ahead of, TP+FD, NFD's, KQ, KJ, uhmmm, I flat and fold to an SB shove.

MereNovice

I think that this is a "trick question" - I'm not sure about your definition of a TAG.
If he's really a TAG why is he calling 4*bb pf OOP?

Anyway, I guess that we fold here.
I can't think of any hand that the TAG would make that move with that doesn't make our AK marginal at best. He might have a set or even AsKs (in which case we're drawing dead to a split). If he really is a TAG, he can't have a worse K than us or he wouldn't make that play either pre or post flop.
Also, the SB is still to act (again) and must have a good part of the flop if he has bet out (since you have said that he is a passive player) so we're up against too tight opponents who have both shown a big interest in the flop.
Therefore, much as it goes against the grain to fold TPTK, we fold and try to find a better opportunity.

scotty77

In Response to Re: Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play - ONE.:

This is kind of a gross spot, but theres tons of hands in both ranges we're ahead of, TP+FD, NFD's, KQ, KJ, uhmmm, I flat and fold to an SB shove.
Posted by LadyFingrs

press the vote button then you fish.  my lonely 1 vote for call is looking very silly to all the million votes for raise, submitted by tournie players who have no idea how to play 140bb deep.

elsadog

I discount them drawing to a flush.  I think the TAG has hit his 6 for trips and is defending against the flush draw. I fold.

phil12uk

Im folding for the following reasons:

As far as they're concerned my raising range pre is wide as they are both tight and i may just be stealing their blinds - which they would have had done many times due to their images.

Post flop the SB bet stinks of a draw - either 7,8 or having 4 to the flush.

This is where the extra thought comes in - I know that the SB is Tight Passive and Im assuming that the BB does too. So, his range could be with 2 pair / set BUT ALSO he may be using the stack to bully the 'wide range raiser from pre flop and the tight player who's betting like a draw. 

All that being said - how many cards are going to help me vs 2 pair if that's what the BB has? The spade A or K may well be helping the flusher so my outs are restricted more.

FOLD and let them battle it out - need better than 1 pair to battle 2 opponents.