I think "ND" is fine as a generic term. It certainly beats all of the needless & dreadful terms that we often see applied to poker players who are deemed to be of lesser ability.
How or why anoyone would refer to a player who they deem "not good" in terms that relate to mental illness is something everyone in poker should be thoroughly ashamed of, & work jointly to eradicate.
I think "ND" is fine as a generic term. It certainly beats all of the needless & dreadful terms that we often see applied to poker players who are deemed to be of lesser ability. How or why anoyone would refer to a player who they deem "not good" in terms that relate to mental illness is something everyone in poker should be thoroughly ashamed of, & work jointly to eradicate. Posted by Tikay10
Got to agree, I hate the usual terms for people who spend money on poker. These players should be treated like kings not insulted.
In Response to Re: Heads up tables : Got to agree, I hate the usual terms for people who spend money on poker. These players should be treated like kings not insulted. Posted by ajs4385
I completely agree with this and what Tikay said.
On the original post, exceptionally tricky to work. Some recreational or ND players just want to play HU, they want to take on one person and it's part of their fun so I think totally eradicating the HU tables isn't the way to go.
I kind of favour reducing HU spawning (at present they spawn if one person is seated I think) and making them spawn when two are seated. However this could well lead to the table blocking issues and squabbling AJS has identified earlier.
Not perfect but the devil in me would like to see the 'sit out' button removed from the HU tables. Not great when you need a pee and probably unworkable, but would lead to interesting moments. In other words if you don't post within the time limit, you get kicked.
On anonymous tables, I hate the idea and I don't think this will help either HU or 6 Max play at all. I don't scour the site looking for NDs but for me playing 5 blank faces is not poker.
Completely agree with Sim that rake races are one of the best workable solutions at present.
Just had a idea Only priority club members can bum hunt heads up. Reduces tables in lobby Keeps people who fund this site happy ND still got option of heads up play Only people who are affected are the hu leaches who take the ND sky attract without paying tons of rake like 6 max regs do. Posted by ajs4385
I think this is a good idea or maybe something similar in which you have to earn X amount of points before you can sit at multiple HU tables of the same stake per month.
This is very basic and the numbers are pretty random but it may work something like this;
0 - 1000 points = 1
1000 - 5000 = 2
5000 - 10000 = 3
10000+ = unlimited
Having said that I don't think it is realistic or feasible for anything like this to be implemented.
Rake races are part of the bigger problem. Reg on reg action is not sustainable as even if you have a edge against a reg their money is still coming from a ND.
The problem with online poker is sites arnt doing enough to attract ND to the site. eg all skys promotions are geared to high volume profitable players.
However, for rake to be paid or for a reg to earn money someone has to be spending money. This is so simple but I believe is oftern overlooked.
Remove HU tables above a certain limit for a short period of time and see how it affects the games. If people really want to play HU they can still use 6max tables.
Rake races are part of the bigger problem. Reg on reg action is not sustainable as even if you have a edge against a reg their money is still coming from a ND. The problem with online poker is sites arnt doing enough to attract ND to the site. eg all skys promotions are geared to high volume profitable players. However, for rake to be paid or for a reg to earn money someone has to be spending money. This is so simple but I believe is oftern overlooked. Posted by ajs4385
That is incorrect - Sky Poker do a great deal to attract new players, & is very successful in doing so, that is where the growth, which other sites currently lack, comes from.
You don't see it though, as it is very specifically targeted & marketed. Such promotions would be a complete waste of money if targeted at the existing player-base!
Remove HU tables above a certain limit for a short period of time and see how it affects the games. If people really want to play HU they can still use 6max tables. Posted by offshoot
In Response to Re: Heads up tables : There will be a big cash-game Promotion for October, details will probably be announced tomorrow. + Posted by Tikay10
I'll post to mr selfish in a bit, it all just blows my mind and i'm so tilted I might just go kill myself.
To Sky/Tikay.
WHY DON'T YOU TELL US ABOUT THIS MASSIVE PROMO ONCE IT'S FINISHED? MAYBE DECEMEBER
it's not like people have to know before the month starts what promos are on, especially when they are massive and require alot of time. Announcing the day before is so ridiculous, at most short sighted, at least unhelpful.
Lets just get told that March 2004 was a double points month ..... marv.
i think making HU tables King of the Hill style format is probably the best solution, removing them all together is still better than it is at the moment though imo.
(below is taken from phil galfond's blog post on this subject titled 'Let's make some changes')
"2) King of the Hill – A specific number of (non-full) HU tables are allowed at any point. This means that those willing to play anyone will end up “holding” the tables, as the only way to take it from them is to play against one of them until they leave.
King of the Hill (from now on: KotH) encourages action between regulars and makes online poker less intimidating and embarrassing for recreational players. It gives priority to stronger players, and those who give action. (This could be considered a good or bad thing, but certainly is good from a sites perspective, as it encourages players to give action)
A major downside of KotH is that it could prevent some games from occurring. If average reg A and average reg B would be willing to play each other, they no longer have a chance to, since neither will claim a HU table, and neither wants to play Tough pro A, B, or C in order to get that table. This was a very good argument against KotH structure four years ago. It doesn’t totally hold water today. It’s very rare that these HU matches are taking place. That said, it still would be bad to prevent them from happening, should things ever change and people start playing poker again."
basically it means that the HU lobby would be as it's "meant to be" as in a 25p/50p 6max reg cant just sit in at £25/£50 HU table proceed to bH and show a profit. they would have to play against anyone who sits down, or be forced to leave the table after certain amount of time
Just had a idea Only priority club members can bum hunt heads up. Reduces tables in lobby Keeps people who fund this site happy ND still got option of heads up play Only people who are affected are the hu leaches who take the ND sky attract without paying tons of rake like 6 max regs do. Posted by ajs4385
Right so... hypothetically speaking...
I am a priority club member...
I sit at a table.
ND comes on the site, thinks, rightly, that I am a fish HU and wants a piece...
He then get's a message saying "I am sorry you are not a Priority Club member you cannot play here..."
<<gets popcorn in and waits for beaney's next post>>
I really do not play cash and I am certainly not a HR, but....
It seems to me like some larger rolled players want some other larger rolled players to share out the lesser rolled players amongst them all. This is whilst restricting who can play at what tables and for how long. I did think the proposal to ban players in the chat box who were not rolled for certain tables was a little OTT, but this beats that hands down.
It will be interesting to see what Sky Poker comes up now TBH.
koth - other problem is if you dont wanna play someone can do annoying things like taking all time on every decision so person you dont wanna play leaves.
sim - I meant only priority members can wait for ND, but anyone can join any hu table (only idea not sayin will work or happen)
I am sooooo looking forward to beaneh response too, he always puts a lot of time and effort into replys to my posts. I am flattered by it. Wonder what hes putting, hes taking his time isnt he. I think he wants it to be perfect, wonder if he is getting someone to proof read it. I cant wait!
<<gets popcorn in and waits for beaney's next post />> I really do not play cash and I am certainly not a HR, but.... It seems to me like some larger rolled players want some other larger rolled players to share out the lesser rolled players amongst them all. This is whilst restricting who can play at what tables and for how long. I did think the proposal to ban players in the chat box who were not rolled for certain tables was a little OTT, but this beats that hands down. It will be interesting to see what Sky Poker comes up now TBH. Posted by MAXALLY
That suggestion will not be implemented Alan. There are some useful ways that the problem can & will be be addressed though.
The thread has been very useful in fact, to gauge people's opinion, but the suggestions have been by the players, not Sky Poker.
I believe that the proposed solution that Sky Poker are currently evaluating will work, & without making anything elitist. It can be quite quickly implemented, too.
The "chat restrictions"? That was such a shame, & Sky Poker did everything they could before bringing it in, they asked players, they warned them, but abuse of people playing for high stakes could not be allowed to continue, & almost all of the abuse came from players who play smaller stakes, or in some cases, not at all, they just wanted to abuse people. It had to be stopped I'm afraid. The players themselves (those who abused others who were playing) have to take some responsibility for their actions.
I don't quite see what else could have been done really. I agree though, it is a terrible shame. Another of poker's mysteries, why some people are so normal in real life, but become so abusive Online.
Got no problem bum hunting as lets be honest we only play on sky for the ratio of Pros to ND. Although these days cant imagine its much better than other sites. Bring back 2009 10+ tables of 200nl every night 4 fish per table on sky. That **** download has cost me tens of thousands! (not exaggerating) Posted by ajs4385
If you want to attract people who 8 table 30 hours a week, you have to feed them. There are many names for this food but a lot are quite disrespectful, Posted by ajs4385
Why do you feel that you have a right to just sit there and win money? I do not understand this. If you can't beat the other regs then you are, and fully deserve to be, the ND at the table. You are entitled to nothing AJS.
Ok 1st response from me, good idea to cancel HU tables & I play both 6max and HU. I'm literally willing to play anyone HU bar a couple of players. I don't think you can force people to play eachother some battles are personal & are -EV long run.
I have to say though I can't help but think this is a desperate plea from AJS as he has noticed his win rate has obviously dwindled severly this year. please note this isn't a personal dig merely an observation. Thats part of the game though I'm afraid & I'm sure everyones has to be honest.
I'm not really sure what can be done really Sky is a small site & it always will be - yes its growing but its still tiny in comparison to others. I'm happy the way it is, as soon as things like software changes happen, along come the nits with there HEM (I prefer playing the player not the stats) anyone can read stats and react to it. Also the bots will arrive and will be compatible with the site, believe me they exist I have seen them in action on other sites.
So this question is, is it really worth changing anything at all? or best to leave the site as it is..
Sky is one of the purist sites left, yes the software isn't lightning quick but you dont get bots & u can't use HEM its as close as real poker as you can get!
Comments
The thread point is noted. Not an easy problem to solve, it bedevils all Online Poker Sites.
A possible solution has been identified, & may be trialled within the next few weeks.
I think "ND" is fine as a generic term. It certainly beats all of the needless & dreadful terms that we often see applied to poker players who are deemed to be of lesser ability.
How or why anoyone would refer to a player who they deem "not good" in terms that relate to mental illness is something everyone in poker should be thoroughly ashamed of, & work jointly to eradicate.
Only priority club members can bum hunt heads up.
Reduces tables in lobby
Keeps people who fund this site happy
ND still got option of heads up play
Only people who are affected are the hu leaches who take the ND sky attract without paying tons of rake like 6 max regs do.
On the original post, exceptionally tricky to work. Some recreational or ND players just want to play HU, they want to take on one person and it's part of their fun so I think totally eradicating the HU tables isn't the way to go.
I kind of favour reducing HU spawning (at present they spawn if one person is seated I think) and making them spawn when two are seated. However this could well lead to the table blocking issues and squabbling AJS has identified earlier.
Not perfect but the devil in me would like to see the 'sit out' button removed from the HU tables. Not great when you need a pee and probably unworkable, but would lead to interesting moments. In other words if you don't post within the time limit, you get kicked.
On anonymous tables, I hate the idea and I don't think this will help either HU or 6 Max play at all. I don't scour the site looking for NDs but for me playing 5 blank faces is not poker.
Completely agree with Sim that rake races are one of the best workable solutions at present.
The problem with online poker is sites arnt doing enough to attract ND to the site. eg all skys promotions are geared to high volume profitable players.
However, for rake to be paid or for a reg to earn money someone has to be spending money. This is so simple but I believe is oftern overlooked.
You don't see it though, as it is very specifically targeted & marketed. Such promotions would be a complete waste of money if targeted at the existing player-base!
Lets just get told that March 2004 was a double points month ..... marv.
(below is taken from phil galfond's blog post on this subject titled 'Let's make some changes')
"2) King of the Hill – A specific number of (non-full) HU tables are allowed at any point. This means that those willing to play anyone will end up “holding” the tables, as the only way to take it from them is to play against one of them until they leave.
King of the Hill (from now on: KotH) encourages action between regulars and makes online poker less intimidating and embarrassing for recreational players. It gives priority to stronger players, and those who give action. (This could be considered a good or bad thing, but certainly is good from a sites perspective, as it encourages players to give action)
A major downside of KotH is that it could prevent some games from occurring. If average reg A and average reg B would be willing to play each other, they no longer have a chance to, since neither will claim a HU table, and neither wants to play Tough pro A, B, or C in order to get that table. This was a very good argument against KotH structure four years ago. It doesn’t totally hold water today. It’s very rare that these HU matches are taking place. That said, it still would be bad to prevent them from happening, should things ever change and people start playing poker again."
basically it means that the HU lobby would be as it's "meant to be" as in a 25p/50p 6max reg cant just sit in at £25/£50 HU table proceed to bH and show a profit. they would have to play against anyone who sits down, or be forced to leave the table after certain amount of timesim - I meant only priority members can wait for ND, but anyone can join any hu table (only idea not sayin will work or happen)
I am sooooo looking forward to beaneh response too, he always puts a lot of time and effort into replys to my posts. I am flattered by it. Wonder what hes putting, hes taking his time isnt he. I think he wants it to be perfect, wonder if he is getting someone to proof read it. I cant wait!
The thread has been very useful in fact, to gauge people's opinion, but the suggestions have been by the players, not Sky Poker.
I believe that the proposed solution that Sky Poker are currently evaluating will work, & without making anything elitist. It can be quite quickly implemented, too.
The "chat restrictions"? That was such a shame, & Sky Poker did everything they could before bringing it in, they asked players, they warned them, but abuse of people playing for high stakes could not be allowed to continue, & almost all of the abuse came from players who play smaller stakes, or in some cases, not at all, they just wanted to abuse people. It had to be stopped I'm afraid. The players themselves (those who abused others who were playing) have to take some responsibility for their actions.
I don't quite see what else could have been done really. I agree though, it is a terrible shame. Another of poker's mysteries, why some people are so normal in real life, but become so abusive Online.
Apologies - I think I jumped the gun there - these Restrictions are UNDER DISCUSSION, & have not been introduced yet as far as I know.
It is almost certain that they will, though.
I have to say though I can't help but think this is a desperate plea from AJS as he has noticed his win rate has obviously dwindled severly this year. please note this isn't a personal dig merely an observation. Thats part of the game though I'm afraid & I'm sure everyones has to be honest.