The Guarantees on the Mini Bounty Hunters (Monday, Thursday, Saturday), ALL of which currently come in at £5.50, are being increased effective tomorrow & henceforth, from £1,500 to £2,000.
This is only possible due to the number of players playing these £5.50 BH's.
It is completely understood that £5.50 is beyond the pockets of some players, by the same token, it is clear by player numbers that it suits very many players.
The Buy-Ins for every Mini-Main will be kept under permanent scrutiny & review by the Business, as all Sky Poker products are.
I think it is by now understood by both parties that it will never be possible to be all things to all players, & that Players always have a choice of Sites to play on. As such, the Business tries very hard to strike a balance, to offer something for everyone.
The mini can be seen by many as just the 2nd part of the jackpot. A lot of people who play the main at a £33 buyin would be unlikely to play the mini at £3.30 if it wasn't for the jackpot. If you look at the prizepool (I'm going purely from memory here) you would need to get about 6th or 7th out of the 300 runner tourney just to get your main event buy in back!
So by increasing it from £3.30 to £5.50 and increasing the GTD prizepool they are making the tournament a lot more attractive to the people who play the main as their natural tournament.
As for pricing people out on Sky that's just ludicrous! Look at the tournament lobby now (granted it's during the day) there is 1 "bigger" buyin tourney every hour but 13 small tournaments within that time, whether they are timed, BH, deepstack, f/o or satellites they are ALL below £11.
Let's flip this argument on it's head... The mini can be seen by many as just the 2nd part of the jackpot. A lot of people who play the main at a £33 buyin would be unlikely to play the mini at £3.30 if it wasn't for the jackpot. If you look at the prizepool (I'm going purely from memory here) you would need to get about 6th or 7th out of the 300 runner tourney just to get your main event buy in back! So by increasing it from £3.30 to £5.50 and increasing the GTD prizepool they are making the tournament a lot more attractive to the people who play the main as their natural tournament. As for pricing people out on Sky that's just ludicrous! Look at the tournament lobby now (granted it's during the day) there is 1 "bigger" buyin tourney every hour but 13 small tournaments within that time, whether they are timed, BH, deepstack, f/o or satellites they are ALL below £11. Posted by FlashFlush
So much wrong with your post Charles.
1) The MINIS should not be regarded as another tournament for the main players IMO. They should be first and foremost be for the smaller BR players, which they were intially introduced for.
2) The 2nd high lighted bit bears NO INCLUSION on this debate thread as it is only discussing MINI EVENTS.
The Guarantees on the Mini Bounty Hunters (Monday, Thursday, Saturday), ALL of which currently come in at £5.50, are being increased effective tomorrow & henceforth, from £1,500 to £2,000. This is only possible due to the number of players playing these £5.50 BH's. It is completely understood that £5.50 is beyond the pockets of some players, by the same token, it is clear by player numbers that it suits very many players. The Buy-Ins for every Mini-Main will be kept under permanent scrutiny & review by the Business, as all Sky Poker products are. I think it is by now understood by both parties that it will never be possible to be all things to all players, & that Players always have a choice of Sites to play on. As such, the Business tries very hard to strike a balance, to offer something for everyone. Posted by Tikay10
"Sky do not want smaller rolled players on the site any more".
Nothing could be further from the truth.
It is very rare that there is not at least one Promotion going on that is aimed at the smaller-rolled Tourney players.
Currently they have "New-vember" which is aimed at exclusively at lower-stake players, and such Promotions will continue from time to time.
Smaller-staked players are a very important part of any Online Poker Room, but even more so at Sky Poker because it fits very well with their acquisition model - players who are new to poker.
But there is another side to that coin.......
There are also mudium & high stake players, & they have exactly the same rights, & they need looking after too.
Then there are SNG players, & cash players........
It is not easy to be all things to all men.
We also need to keep things in perspective. We are discussing here low-staked Tourneys, which are an important part of the Business. As are.....
Medium Stake Tourneys
High Stake Tourneys
Low Stake SNG's
Medium Stake SNG's
High Stake SNG's
Low Stakes Cash
Medium Stakes Cash
High Stakes Cash
Cutting the cake in a way which appeals to all will never be easy.
Note also that cash games generate - by a very long way - the majority of site traffic, with the balance split between Tourneys & SNG's, then sub-divided again by Buy-In Level.
So, though we are unlikely to agree on this, the Business DOES value lower-stake players, & will continue so to do. It will also keep changing the mix of buy-ins & structures, they will never be "the same for ever". Only by doing so can they accurrately gauge player interest.
In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS : So much wrong with your post Charles. 1) The MINIS should not be regarded as another tournament for the main players IMO. They should be first and foremost be for the smaller BR players, which they were intially introduced for. 2) The 2nd high lighted bit bears NO INCLUSION on this debate thread as it is only discussing MINI EVENTS. Posted by MAXALLY
I think you really need to get some perspective about the amount of big/small tournaments there are on Sky at the moment.
What I'm trying to get at, without meaning to sound rude to anyone as it doesn't really bother me because I'm not playing MTTs at the moment anyway. There are loads of small MTTs on Sky, if by putting the mini up by £2.20 that prices a few people out then that's a shame, but it will also encourage a few more of the "Bigger buy in" players to play it as the prizepool is a lot more appealing. Either way they aren't going to lose out on runners, or if they do it will be marginal and the extra bit of rake will make up for that anyway.
FWIW in my opinion I think £5.50 is a perfect buy in for a decent sized MTT.
Without going into the do you have a bankroll or a budgt debate, if you can't afford the £5.50 buyin, then your regular game I expect would be STT's anyway because you don't get much lower.
On the flip side as I said above if it appeals to enough with the TV coverage and gets over 250 runners then the prize pool will appeal to the bigger players as well. I just feel that the £3.30 buyin was too low to appeal to a lot of players and with the top heavy prize structures you get in poker, a lot of people just play "Shove poker" to either get a stack or be out and that isn't good for anyone.
Just think - You are new to poker and you have watched the Sky channel a lot, there are a few players on there you look upto. Then suddenly your drawn on the same table as them in the mini. You think oohh great this could be a good experience I'm going to watch how they play, and then they just shove all their chips in 10 hands running because the prizeppol is too small and it's all or nothing even with 300 people in the tournament still....
Have you ever counted the number of different products Sky Poker offer? Allowing for different buy-ins & formats, there are, literally, hundreds. It would just not be possible to "announce" them all.
The mix & balance of these are changed every single week, sometimes daily - there are changes galore, all the time, every day, every week.
I happen to hold the personal view that it is good to talk, & communication is a VERY important thing, & I'd like to think we could do it better. It's not been noticed by a soul (or not mentioned, that I have seen) but communication has been much increased of late.
It is my personal view that it would be good to mention, or "announce" every change, but really, that's never going to happen, there are too many.
In the case of "staple diet" stuff, which includes the Mini, yes, I think, wherever possible, it should be communicated.
Note, by the way, that we are just taking amongst ourselves, the "Community", but the Community is a very small % of the overall player-base, when discussing these matters we need to consider EVERYONE, not just the Community.
Can the Business do these things better? Yes, of course it can. And it will keep trying.
"Sky will implement whatever they want, irrespective of feedback".
Well yes, it's their Business, they can do as they like. But.....they would not ask for feedack if they did not plan to listen to it, what would be the point?
So they take feedback in a variety of ways. By listening, by asking, by talking, & especially by looking at the Data. They combine all those things, or try to. I don't know this as a fact, as I have not asked, but it seems to me that examining the data is easily the most important means of "feedback", as the data is real, not opinion.
It would have been courteous of Sky to post on the original thread what their decision was but we never heard anything. I looked back from Tuesdays buy in and had to go back to last Friday to find a £3-30 buy in. Maybe I jumped the gun slightly but when Sky said they would review on the 12th I was expecting some kind of announcement. that never came hence my post. At least there are 2 I can afford to play so thank you for that.
Tikay it appeaars you have answered the question I raised in this post while i was composing it so thank you. .
This is a business in a free market. If you're not happy with the service or products that are offered you are absolutely free to do your gaming elsewhere.
This isn't some sort of social enterprise were we have to pretend everybody is equal.
The BUSINESS will concentrate their resources on those customers that provide the most revenue to maximize PROFIT. That's what businesses do.
I have not addressed the "Responsible Gaming" debate, as I honestly don't think it is connected.
The Business tries to get players to play on the site more - that's perfectly natural & normal, thats what any business tries to do.
I personally believe that it tries to do that in a responsible manner, although it is quite a complex matter, & not one I'm mandated or trained to discuss.
Tikay this is taken from a Sky admin post on the original Mini thread: So we've decided we will do a trial (alternating days) which will be like this: Tonight (Monday) = £3.30 Tuesday = £5.50 Wednesday = £3.30 Thursday = £5.50 Friday = £3.30 Satuday = £5.50 Sunday = £5.50 (as usual) We'll then review next Monday (12th). It would have been courteous of Sky to post on the original thread what their decision was but we never heard anything. I looked back from Tuesdays buy in and had to go back to last Friday to find a £3-30 buy in. Maybe I jumped the gun slightly but when Sky said they would review on the 12th I was expecting some kind of announcement. that never came hence my post. At least there are 2 I can afford to play so thank you for that. Tikay it appeaars you have answered the question I raised in this post while i was composing it so thank you. . Posted by FlyingDagg
I think that is completey fair comment Dagg, & you can blame me for that, as perhaps I should have made it known.
But I don't think we should confuse "courteous" (lack of) with "don't care".
Well I hope I have answered some of your questions, yes, & I can completely understand why you Posted as you did.
Open your eyes, this site goes far beyond any other in terms of attempting to satisfy lower bankroll players. Prizes for DTDs, prizes for various others leagues, the DYM ladder challenge, the HU ladder challenge, free competitions, the current promotion has had overlay almost every tourney.
Its ridiculous how much people are complaining with regards to 'you don't care about lower bankroll players. Get a grip.
FlashFlush you are so wide of the mark with your last post. To say that if you cant afford £5-50 then your main game must be STTs is wrong. All the MTTs from $1-10/£2-20 deepstacks to bounty hunters up to say £3-30 get loads of support and I will wager that a lot of these are the type of player who would pay the £3-30 to play the Mini. You only need to look at past fields to see that the same names crop up in the Mini as appear in the Deepstacks. And for what it's worth I've yet to play in a Mini where it can be classed as a shove fest and that includes Bounty Hunters
This is a business in a free market. If you're not happy with the service or products that are offered you are absolutely free to do your gaming elsewhere. This isn't some sort of social enterprise were we have to pretend everybody is equal. The BUSINESS will concentrate their resources on those customers that provide the most revenue to maximize PROFIT. That's what businesses do. Posted by BrownnDog
Such a blinded response to what is actually on debate here. Shame.
Open your eyes, this site goes far beyond any other in terms of attempting to satisfy lower bankroll players. Prizes for DTDs, prizes for various others leagues, the DYM ladder challenge, the HU ladder challenge, free competitions, the current promotion has had overlay almost every tourney. Its ridiculous how much people are complaining with regards to 'you don't care about lower bankroll players. Get a grip. Posted by NColley
Another poster who has gone off track to what is trying to be discussed here. The Thread title is MINI EVENTS.
In Response to Re: MINI EVENTS : Such a blinded response to what is actually on debate here. Shame. Posted by MAXALLY
Oh
Is that so? Feel free to explain my lack of vision.
As I see it, you feel betrayed because a **business** has made a **commercial decision** to change its pricing policy. A business is accountable to its shareholders; who in turn want to attain maximum profitability by appointing a management team to implement a successful business strategy.
You are trying to influence the cost of something you have not yet purchased. It's like me writing a letter to Tesco asking them to reduce the price of a can of beans. In reality, I would get in my car and go in the other direction and buy cheaper beans from Asda. That's a **free market**.
It is perfectly ok and reasonable to not like a commercial decision a business makes, but to suggest that a business **must** cater for you, otherwise they are being 'irresponsible' is plainly ludicrous. Lets start taking responsibility for our own actions and choices.
If Sky Bet believes that increasing certain buyins will leads to maximum profitability in the longer term, then it is a perfectly sensible and wise road for them to go down. They have no inherent **responsibility** to provide a pricing strategy that is affordable to everybody if in their opinion, it doesn't make commercial sense for them to do so.
Comments
The Guarantees on the Mini Bounty Hunters (Monday, Thursday, Saturday), ALL of which currently come in at £5.50, are being increased effective tomorrow & henceforth, from £1,500 to £2,000.
This is only possible due to the number of players playing these £5.50 BH's.
It is completely understood that £5.50 is beyond the pockets of some players, by the same token, it is clear by player numbers that it suits very many players.
The Buy-Ins for every Mini-Main will be kept under permanent scrutiny & review by the Business, as all Sky Poker products are.
I think it is by now understood by both parties that it will never be possible to be all things to all players, & that Players always have a choice of Sites to play on. As such, the Business tries very hard to strike a balance, to offer something for everyone.
"Sky do not want smaller rolled players on the site any more".
Nothing could be further from the truth.
It is very rare that there is not at least one Promotion going on that is aimed at the smaller-rolled Tourney players.
Currently they have "New-vember" which is aimed at exclusively at lower-stake players, and such Promotions will continue from time to time.
Smaller-staked players are a very important part of any Online Poker Room, but even more so at Sky Poker because it fits very well with their acquisition model - players who are new to poker.
But there is another side to that coin.......
There are also mudium & high stake players, & they have exactly the same rights, & they need looking after too.
Then there are SNG players, & cash players........
It is not easy to be all things to all men.
We also need to keep things in perspective. We are discussing here low-staked Tourneys, which are an important part of the Business. As are.....
Medium Stake Tourneys
High Stake Tourneys
Low Stake SNG's
Medium Stake SNG's
High Stake SNG's
Low Stakes Cash
Medium Stakes Cash
High Stakes Cash
Cutting the cake in a way which appeals to all will never be easy.
Note also that cash games generate - by a very long way - the majority of site traffic, with the balance split between Tourneys & SNG's, then sub-divided again by Buy-In Level.
So, though we are unlikely to agree on this, the Business DOES value lower-stake players, & will continue so to do. It will also keep changing the mix of buy-ins & structures, they will never be "the same for ever". Only by doing so can they accurrately gauge player interest.
"The decision to change the buy-ins was pre-determined".
This is incorrect.
"The decisions have been made & are permanent".
No they are not.
"They never announced the change".
Guilty as charged - with a plea of mitigation!
Have you ever counted the number of different products Sky Poker offer? Allowing for different buy-ins & formats, there are, literally, hundreds. It would just not be possible to "announce" them all.
The mix & balance of these are changed every single week, sometimes daily - there are changes galore, all the time, every day, every week.
I happen to hold the personal view that it is good to talk, & communication is a VERY important thing, & I'd like to think we could do it better. It's not been noticed by a soul (or not mentioned, that I have seen) but communication has been much increased of late.
It is my personal view that it would be good to mention, or "announce" every change, but really, that's never going to happen, there are too many.
In the case of "staple diet" stuff, which includes the Mini, yes, I think, wherever possible, it should be communicated.
Note, by the way, that we are just taking amongst ourselves, the "Community", but the Community is a very small % of the overall player-base, when discussing these matters we need to consider EVERYONE, not just the Community.
Can the Business do these things better? Yes, of course it can. And it will keep trying.
"Sky will implement whatever they want, irrespective of feedback".
Well yes, it's their Business, they can do as they like. But.....they would not ask for feedack if they did not plan to listen to it, what would be the point?
So they take feedback in a variety of ways. By listening, by asking, by talking, & especially by looking at the Data. They combine all those things, or try to. I don't know this as a fact, as I have not asked, but it seems to me that examining the data is easily the most important means of "feedback", as the data is real, not opinion.
So we've decided we will do a trial (alternating days) which will be like this:
Tonight (Monday) = £3.30
Tuesday = £5.50
Wednesday = £3.30
Thursday = £5.50
Friday = £3.30
Satuday = £5.50
Sunday = £5.50 (as usual)
We'll then review next Monday (12th).
It would have been courteous of Sky to post on the original thread what their decision was but we never heard anything. I looked back from Tuesdays buy in and had to go back to last Friday to find a £3-30 buy in. Maybe I jumped the gun slightly but when Sky said they would review on the 12th I was expecting some kind of announcement. that never came hence my post. At least there are 2 I can afford to play so thank you for that.
Tikay it appeaars you have answered the question I raised in this post while i was composing it so thank you.
.
I have not addressed the "Responsible Gaming" debate, as I honestly don't think it is connected.
The Business tries to get players to play on the site more - that's perfectly natural & normal, thats what any business tries to do.
I personally believe that it tries to do that in a responsible manner, although it is quite a complex matter, & not one I'm mandated or trained to discuss.
But I don't think we should confuse "courteous" (lack of) with "don't care".
Well I hope I have answered some of your questions, yes, & I can completely understand why you Posted as you did.