was their any mistakes in this

craigcu12

thanks to the help i have had from people on hand like that QQ which i posted i am starting to get a greater understanding of what is really a bad beat and what was just a case of bad play by me as it has made me notice that so many more of my hands wer actully my own fault.
this hand here is one i am a bit unsure about.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
x2	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.92
x	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.80
	Your hole cards	Q J
_ _	Fold
_ _	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		£0.12	£0.18	£5.73
__	Fold
x2	Call		£0.10	£0.28	£1.82
x	Call		£0.08	£0.36	£1.72
Flop
		7 6 Q
x2	Bet		£0.04	£0.40	£1.78
x	Call		£0.04	£0.44	£1.68
craigcu12	Raise		£0.28	£0.72	£5.45
x2	Call		£0.24	£0.96	£1.54
x	Call		£0.24	£1.20	£1.44
Turn
		3
x2	Check
x	Check
craigcu12	Bet		£0.24	£1.44	£5.21
x2	Call		£0.24	£1.68	£1.30
x	Call		£0.24	£1.92	£1.20
River
		8
x2	Check
x	Check
craigcu12	Check
x2	Show	J 6
x	Show	A Q
craigcu12	Muck	Q J
x	Win	Pair of Queens	£1.77		£2.97

the thing i am most unsure of is was it ok to do the bet preflop or is QJo not worth risking even if there were no bets or limps before me ?
as for the flop onwards was i correct with all my play from their and basically just a case of being trapped or could a pot size river bet have got the guy with AQ to have folded

Wilhelm

1.  I 1ike the raise pre.

2.  I probab1y just ca11 the f1op bet.  Your raise wont get anyone to fo1d and I dont want to inf1ate the pot with a semi decent hand.  

3.  Fine to bet when checke to, a1though your sizing needs some work.  I dont rea11y 1ike sticking to ru1es when we p1ay poker, but try to keep your bets above 1/2 pot.

4.  I wou1d probab1y check the river with showdown va1ue.  At this 1eve1 you cannot get a better hand than QJ to fo1d here. 

larry1959

In an early position (under the gun), raising up with jq is a no no.. you got 5 players ahead of you, by all means call a raise dependant on size, anything over a 3xBB you fold. Had you flat called the blind and then been raised up 5x..,you could have made a much more informed decision, and if you called that then you need to seriously look at your play. The player with the AQ may have got a read on you or the other player..playing to many hands (unless you are getting a really good run, you should not be playing more than 30% of your hands,use your stats button and check your % play against % wins, 29% played with 80% return is good, and tighten up if needed)... loose calls... agressive play and decided to try and 'trap' you or the other player. It's a risky, but common play.. there are 7 starting hands over QJ..AA KK QQ AK AQ KQ KJ..and pocket pairs...someone with pocket 6's would have hit trips on the flop and will call all day long...a call with 4,5 suited there's a str8.. As for the 3rd player he should be folding on the  turn.. better still fold pre flop..as they say.. if they look pretty..they're probably not.. those sort of cards will get you in trouble 9 times outta 10. As for the hand itself, you got away lightly, I would be shoving on you at the turn... and you would be calling because of the preflop play..and if you'd shoved my way then you'd have been re raised..so checking down the river was your best option..you smelt a rat and saved yourself some money..the guy with the AQ was probably hoping you'd bet and max out with a raise.. and the  j6 suited guy would probably have obliged him too....but also remember at these 2p-4p stakes..you'll get more 'fishermen than birdseye ( the j6 suited player)..suggest you tag the player concerned and note his play and learn from it...but more importantly learn to use position on the table when making raises.

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

In an early position (under the gun), raising up with jq is a no no.. you got 5 players ahead of you, by all means call a raise dependant on size, anything over a 3xBB you fold. Had you flat called the blind and then been raised up 5x..,you could have made a much more informed decision, and if you called that then you need to seriously look at your play. The player with the AQ may have got a read on you or the other player..playing to many hands (unless you are getting a really good run, you should not be playing more than 30% of your hands,use your stats button and check your % play against % wins, 29% played with 80% return is good, and tighten up if needed)... loose calls... agressive play and decided to try and 'trap' you or the other player. It's a risky, but common play.. there are 7 starting hands over QJ..AA KK QQ AK AQ KQ KJ..and pocket pairs...someone with pocket 6's would have hit trips on the flop and will call all day long...a call with 4,5 suited there's a str8.. As for the 3rd player he should be folding on the  turn.. better still fold pre flop..as they say.. if they look pretty..they're probably not.. those sort of cards will get you in trouble 9 times outta 10. As for the hand itself, you got away lightly, I would be shoving on you at the turn... and you would be calling because of the preflop play..and if you'd shoved my way then you'd have been re raised..so checking down the river was your best option..you smelt a rat and saved yourself some money..the guy with the AQ was probably hoping you'd bet and max out with a raise.. and the  j6 suited guy would probably have obliged him too....but also remember at these 2p-4p stakes..you'll get more 'fishermen than birdseye ( the j6 suited player)..suggest you tag the player concerned and note his play and learn from it...but more importantly learn to use position on the table when making raises.
Posted by larry1959

Struggling to make sense of this

1st off, he's not UTG, he's in the C/O

Are you suggesting he limps in instead of raising?

loololollo

In an early position (under the gun), raising up with jq is a no no.. 

^ 

cut off point but i think a min raise instead of 3x BB

larry1959

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : Struggling to make sense of this 1st off, he's not UTG, he's in the C/O Are you suggesting he limps in instead of raising?
Posted by SHANXTA

surely the player betting 1st after the BB is under the gun???? and the cut off is the BB...preflop anyway???

bolly580

this hand is played fine, no way ya flat the flop donk out.

Yes QJo is a raise pre

bet the turn a bit bigger or dont bet at all

like the check back on the river.

unlucky

rancid

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

this hand is played fine, no way ya flat the flop donk out. Yes QJo is a raise pre bet the turn a bit bigger or dont bet at all like the check back on the river. unlucky
Posted by bolly580

what he said ^

offshoot

You give away the strength of your hand with the turn bet size. Stop being so scared of putting money in the pot.

craigcu12

i think some of you are mis understanding what i mean saying first to bet
basically what i mean by first to bet is those who were before me folded i don't know every fance poker name yet i just know the position names- under the gun SB BB and on the button
basically on this preflop i was in a late position only the button and blinds were left.
i will change edit it

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : surely the player betting 1st after the BB is under the gun???? and the cut off is the BB...preflop anyway???
Posted by larry1959

The cut-off is the seat to the right of the button. Under The Gun is the first player to act pre-flop; the player immediately to the left of the Big Blind.

At a Six-Max table, moving clockwise starting from the Small Blind the positions are:

Small Blind,
Big Blind,
Under The Gun,
The Hijack (Or UTG+1),
The Cut-Off,
The Button.

These don't change in relation to players folding or raising, etc.

Never limp (call for the value of the Big Blind) in an unopened pot. In fact, just never limp at all.

jams88

Played very well up to the turn bet around 85p here. I like the check back on the river to played pretty well room for improvment to get value from hands you are beating on the turn but all in all just unlucky

Lambert180

Pre is fine although I prefer to go 4-5x at 4NL just because I wanna get more value fro the people calling with worse.

Flop is fine to raise cos the min bet might aswell be a check (until you get nots they do this with monsters etc).

On the turn you should bet a lot more, something like 85p.

Checking river is fine.

And yes you are the Cut-Off (the person before the button), think Larry is confused

Lambert180

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

In an early position (under the gun), raising up with jq is a no no.. you got 5 players ahead of you, by all means call a raise dependant on size, anything over a 3xBB you fold. Had you flat called the blind and then been raised up 5x..,you could have made a much more informed decision, and if you called that then you need to seriously look at your play. The player with the AQ may have got a read on you or the other player..playing to many hands (unless you are getting a really good run, you should not be playing more than 30% of your hands,use your stats button and check your % play against % wins, 29% played with 80% return is good, and tighten up if needed)... loose calls... agressive play and decided to try and 'trap' you or the other player. It's a risky, but common play.. there are 7 starting hands over QJ..AA KK QQ AK AQ KQ KJ..and pocket pairs...someone with pocket 6's would have hit trips on the flop and will call all day long...a call with 4,5 suited there's a str8.. As for the 3rd player he should be folding on the  turn.. better still fold pre flop..as they say.. if they look pretty..they're probably not.. those sort of cards will get you in trouble 9 times outta 10. As for the hand itself, you got away lightly, I would be shoving on you at the turn... and you would be calling because of the preflop play..and if you'd shoved my way then you'd have been re raised..so checking down the river was your best option..you smelt a rat and saved yourself some money..the guy with the AQ was probably hoping you'd bet and max out with a raise.. and the  j6 suited guy would probably have obliged him too....but also remember at these 2p-4p stakes..you'll get more 'fishermen than birdseye ( the j6 suited player)..suggest you tag the player concerned and note his play and learn from it...but more importantly learn to use position on the table when making raises.
Posted by larry1959

Do you know what the top 30% of hands are? Is QJ in the top 30%?

craigcu12

on these 2p/4p tables i have came up with a new way to play. this was TBH my first year and was making a lot of mistakes, but now that i am posting my hands into this forum i've learned quite a lot and have come up with a few things i think could help me build a decent bankroll
1. be more sensible with my hands and position combined before making any call
2.start making bets of atleast 16p with hands preflop.
3. stop calling these 4p bets on the flop and turn instead either raise to a 20p+ size bet or fold
4. accept low profits such as £2 and rather than waiting until i get double figures all the time.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

on these 2p/4p tables i have came up with a new way to play. this was TBH my first year and was making a lot of mistakes, but now that i am posting my hands into this forum i've learned quite a lot and have come up with a few things i think could help me build a decent bankroll 1. be more sensible with my hands and position combined before making any call 2.start making bets of atleast 16p with hands preflop. 3. stop calling these 4p bets on the flop and turn instead either raise to a 20p+ size bet or fold 4. accept low profits such as £2 and rather than waiting until i get double figures all the time.
Posted by craigcu12

Did write something a couple of years ago that wud help u set more/better targets than the ones you already have, not sure where it's gone though. If anyone reading knows where it is maybe they can link it on here

Do cringe alot reading it back, and it's far from perfect, but it will still help u beat nl4/8 on here vvvv easily. 

gl

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : Did write something a couple of years ago that wud help u set more/better targets than the ones you already have, not sure where it's gone though. If anyone reading knows where it is maybe they can link it on here Do cringe alot reading it back, and it's far from perfect, but it will still help u beat nl4/8 on here vvvv easily.  gl
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

That'll be this then:

Beating Small Stakes Cash Games - Part 1

jugglegeek

The hand is played fine except the turn bet. In general bets should be between 50-80% of the pot size (change depending on board texture - no the strength of you hand). Here I think a 50% is fine. Like the check behind on the river too.

Pre-flop I like your raise size. From the cut-off and button in an unopened pot 3x is fine even at NL4 unless you have a monster hand and reads that players in the blinds will call big bets very wide. It is definatly +ev to steal blinds from the CO and BTN at NL4 if you pay attention to who is in the blinds so you can really open up your range from these possitions. As a result you should make your raises in these spots smaller because a) you are more likely to get played back at and b) you will be raising with junk a lot of the time. Just don't get sucked into betting multiple streets with suited connectors when you flop a pair and you'll do fine.

Another good stratergy on these tables is to bet when you have top pair until you get raised, then fold. Sometimes you may bet called by a player who has you out kickered (like in this hand) and sometimes a player will raise you on the turn as a bluff and you fold the best hand. But more often than not players at NL4 will call with any pair/any draw. Since I've started doing this I've been amazed at how often I've played a rag ace from the button and been called on three streets by 2nd pair.

Some players will say always raise to /> 20p, which is fine too. But I think that you only need to do this from early possition and/or with monster hands vs players who you know will call anyway.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : That'll be this then: Beating Small Stakes Cash Games - Part 1
Posted by BorinLoner

That's the 1! ^ Cheers BL.

Was unsure about it at the time, and even more so now. lol. But if u can understand what I'm trying to say throughout then it will really help you at micro stakes cash on sky,

If u can't understand all/parts of it, post here and I/we will try and explain it better. 

craigcu12

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : That's the 1! ^ Cheers BL. Was unsure about it at the time, and even more so now. lol. But if u can understand what I'm trying to say throughout then it will really help you at micro stakes cash on sky, If u can't understand all/parts of it, post here and I/we will try and explain it better. 
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

i seem to be able to understand most of it the main part that bugs me is part 3 where you had 88 and he goes all in when that second 9 came out.
what allowed you to make that call which is something i have most of the time folded to.

larry1959

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this:

In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : Do you know what the top 30% of hands are? Is QJ in the top 30%?
Posted by Lambert180

30% of  all dealt hands...not top 30% of hands......read again dear..lol