so youre saying you should only play 30% of what youre dealt? what if youre dealt AA each time for the whole session? fold 1 third of the time right? Posted by percival09
I think while his post is massively confused that its pretty clear he means you shouldnt be playing more than 30% of hands in the long term. I dont think you can imply he is suggesting playing 30% always in short term regardless of cards/situation
In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : I think while his post is massively confused that its pretty clear he means you shouldnt be playing more than 30% of hands in the long term. I dont think you can imply he is suggesting playing 30% always in short term regardless of cards/situation Posted by grantorino
Well yeah but when I said top 30% he said no not top 30%, 30% of hands dealt
And QJo is in the top 30% which was my point. It's also in the top 15%
In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : i seem to be able to understand most of it the main part that bugs me is part 3 where you had 88 and he goes all in when that second 9 came out. what allowed you to make that call which is something i have most of the time folded to. Posted by craigcu12
Well how many hands can he possibly have that call a bet on the flop that have a 9 in them? and the 2nd 9 just makes it even less likely he has a 9 in his hand.
In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : Well yeah but when I said top 30% he said no not top 30%, 30% of hands dealt And QJo is in the top 30% which was my point. It's also in the top 15% Posted by Lambert180
QJ is in the top 15%?
Those top % thingy of hands always seems kinda irrelevant to me. There are situations I would feel more comfortable opening 46s in than QJo. I assume stuff like Q3 is ranked as a beter hand than 78s, (maybe not?) I know which I would rather play unless we get it all over the line pre
In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : I think while his post is massively confused that its pretty clear he means you shouldnt be playing more than 30% of hands in the long term. I dont think you can imply he is suggesting playing 30% always in short term regardless of cards/situation Posted by grantorino
thanks for the defence in what I was trying to put across grantorino, but I wasn't confused in what I was saying ,( most of the guys posting here are playing bigger stakes £2 + tables, and have the experience,money and confidence to blow a few hundred quid + on 1 hand making these calls and the raise or fold style of play comes with experience)....and the post did say unless you are on a good run, when obviously the % hands played would be higher..also there is not much info on other players or the guys style of play..so my point was... raising with QJ in what looks to me like UTG is what put him on a cooler.. (if you look at the table its SB BB and the raiser with QJ) then folded round to the SB and BB who called..or am I reading the table wrong?
The main point I was making was...if his play was loose,,then he would be target for the way the AQ played out against him with the flat calls and checks...and what everyone on here has told him is.."YES SON YOU'RE RIGHT..GET YOUR CHIPS IN THERE..."...sorry but I think when you are learning, you need to think about what hands are beating you pre-flop,your position on the table,the way your opponents play (he had a fish and a player waiting to pounce in that hand), what bets have gone before and bet accordingly...I dont see how thats wrong????..thats why I put the post I did..he's got to be able to way up all options...personally I have learnt that raising early with jq o/s has leeched me more chips than its made..but we are all entitled to an opinion on how certain cards should be played in what positions... at the end of the day it's all about who you are playing against,how aggressive you want to be at the table and the fall of the cards...
In Response to Re: was their any mistakes in this : thanks for the defence in what I was trying to put across grantorino, but I wasn't confused in what I was saying ,( most of the guys posting here are playing bigger stakes £2 + tables, and have the experience,money and confidence to blow a few hundred quid + on 1 hand making these calls and the raise or fold style of play comes with experience)....and the post did say unless you are on a good run, when obviously the % hands played would be higher..also there is not much info on other players or the guys style of play..so my point was... raising with QJ in what looks to me like UTG is what put him on a cooler.. (if you look at the table its SB BB and the raiser with QJ) then folded round to the SB and BB who called..or am I reading the table wrong? The main point I was making was...if his play was loose,,then he would be target for the way the AQ played out against him with the flat calls and checks...and what everyone on here has told him is.."YES SON YOU'RE RIGHT..GET YOUR CHIPS IN THERE..."...sorry but I think when you are learning, you need to think about what hands are beating you pre-flop,your position on the table,the way your opponents play (he had a fish and a player waiting to pounce in that hand), what bets have gone before and bet accordingly...I dont see how thats wrong????..thats why I put the post I did..he's got to be able to way up all options...personally I have learnt that raising early with jq o/s has leeched me more chips than its made..but we are all entitled to an opinion on how certain cards should be played in what positions... at the end of the day it's all about who you are playing against,how aggressive you want to be at the table and the fall of the cards... Posted by larry1959
Most of the players postin aint playin big stakes, u talk crazy & sayin u can blow afew hundred is laffable. i stopped readin after that
Alright, this is getting a bit silly. People piling on is why the Clinic is getting fewer new posters than it used to.
Larry, some of the things you are posting are incorrect. Some are unusual thinking, though not necessarily wrong.
Reading the hand history is an easy one to address: There are two folds before craigcu12 acts, you can see that the players names have been blanked out but their folds are still there. When craig acts, he has only the button and the two blinds still to act, so he's in the Cut-Off.
The "raise or fold style" is not something you need to be particularly experienced to do. New players naturally come to the game and limp in with lots of hands because they want to see flops and get involved. However, this is easily shown to be a losing way to play the game in the long run. We should all encourage new players to come into any hand for a raise if the betting is unopened or to fold if their hand is a bad one. The phrase "If its good enough to play, it's good enough to raise" really does ring true in No Limit Hold 'Em. Telling someone to play their hand by limping in is, I'm afraid, just bad advice at any stake or buy-in.
The thought that you should be playing roughly 30% of your hands in the long term is a reasonable one and one that, as a guideline for new players, makes alot of sense. You seem to understand that the range of hands you can play depends on your position, so in the long-term you should be playing far more than 30% of hands from the buttton and far fewer than 30% from UTG.
I don't like the idea that you should play more hands when you're running well. Pofitable play is profitable play whether you have 100 Big Blinds or 10,000. The times when this can change are when other players are also playing large stacks so there is more play through the streets and so better players will have more of an edge. In these cases those better players will want to see as many flops in position as possible, almost regardless of their starting hands. However, this is a situation that's unlikely to arise very often online and it's not really relevant to the discussion of this hand.
Larry, some of what you say has merit, some of it you can definitely work on to improve your own game. I don't play for hundreds of pounds when I sit at the tables, by the way. Right now the highest level I'm playing is 5p/10p, though I will happily debate the ins and outs of the game with someone playing £5/£10. The good fundamentals of the game don't change as you play higher levels. Don't let it bother you which level the other posters are playing.
Nice post BorinLoner people need to be less aggressive when arguing apoint from a poster trying to help, sometimes can come accross as abit harsh but credit to Larry for sticking around and trying to explain his thinking behind his posts.
FWIW the only high stakes players i can think of that offer their advice in the clinic off the top of my head is Beneah and occasionally LOL_raise and offshoot. Pretty much everybody else playing has beaten or is playing the stakes on which they are trying to advise on so their advice is very relevant. Not to say that the big boys arnt its always spot on from what i can understand myself so far
Comments
And QJo is in the top 30% which was my point. It's also in the top 15%
Those top % thingy of hands always seems kinda irrelevant to me. There are situations I would feel more comfortable opening 46s in than QJo. I assume stuff like Q3 is ranked as a beter hand than 78s, (maybe not?) I know which I would rather play unless we get it all over the line pre
,( most of the guys posting here are playing bigger stakes £2 + tables, and have the experience,money and confidence to blow a few hundred quid + on 1 hand making these calls and the raise or fold style of play comes with experience)....and the post did say unless you are on a good run, when obviously the % hands played would be higher..also there is not much info on other players or the guys style of play..so my point was... raising with QJ in what looks to me like UTG is what put him on a cooler.. (if you look at the table its SB BB and the raiser with QJ) then folded round to the SB and BB who called..or am I reading the table wrong?
The main point I was making was...if his play was loose,,then he would be target for the way the AQ played out against him with the flat calls and checks...and what everyone on here has told him is.."YES SON YOU'RE RIGHT..GET YOUR CHIPS IN THERE..."...sorry but I think when you are learning, you need to think about what hands are beating you pre-flop,your position on the table,the way your opponents play (he had a fish and a player waiting to pounce in that hand), what bets have gone before and bet accordingly...I dont see how thats wrong????..thats why I put the post I did..he's got to be able to way up all options...personally I have learnt that raising early with jq o/s has leeched me more chips than its made..but we are all entitled to an opinion on how certain cards should be played in what positions... at the end of the day it's all about who you are playing against,how aggressive you want to be at the table and the fall of the cards...
Larry, some of the things you are posting are incorrect. Some are unusual thinking, though not necessarily wrong.
Reading the hand history is an easy one to address: There are two folds before craigcu12 acts, you can see that the players names have been blanked out but their folds are still there. When craig acts, he has only the button and the two blinds still to act, so he's in the Cut-Off.
The "raise or fold style" is not something you need to be particularly experienced to do. New players naturally come to the game and limp in with lots of hands because they want to see flops and get involved. However, this is easily shown to be a losing way to play the game in the long run. We should all encourage new players to come into any hand for a raise if the betting is unopened or to fold if their hand is a bad one. The phrase "If its good enough to play, it's good enough to raise" really does ring true in No Limit Hold 'Em. Telling someone to play their hand by limping in is, I'm afraid, just bad advice at any stake or buy-in.
The thought that you should be playing roughly 30% of your hands in the long term is a reasonable one and one that, as a guideline for new players, makes alot of sense. You seem to understand that the range of hands you can play depends on your position, so in the long-term you should be playing far more than 30% of hands from the buttton and far fewer than 30% from UTG.
I don't like the idea that you should play more hands when you're running well. Pofitable play is profitable play whether you have 100 Big Blinds or 10,000. The times when this can change are when other players are also playing large stacks so there is more play through the streets and so better players will have more of an edge. In these cases those better players will want to see as many flops in position as possible, almost regardless of their starting hands. However, this is a situation that's unlikely to arise very often online and it's not really relevant to the discussion of this hand.
Larry, some of what you say has merit, some of it you can definitely work on to improve your own game. I don't play for hundreds of pounds when I sit at the tables, by the way. Right now the highest level I'm playing is 5p/10p, though I will happily debate the ins and outs of the game with someone playing £5/£10. The good fundamentals of the game don't change as you play higher levels. Don't let it bother you which level the other posters are playing.
FWIW the only high stakes players i can think of that offer their advice in the clinic off the top of my head is Beneah and occasionally LOL_raise and offshoot. Pretty much everybody else playing has beaten or is playing the stakes on which they are trying to advise on so their advice is very relevant. Not to say that the big boys arnt its always spot on from what i can understand myself so far