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Brexit

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    edited December 2020
    The EU can base customs staff in Northern Ireland, confirms Michael Gove in concession on border operations

    Brussels will be allowed to have its officials permanently based in Northern Ireland to oversee checks on goods crossing the Irish Sea.

    Michael Gove agreed to the concession last night as part of a deal with the EU on how the province's borders will operate from next month when the Brexit transition period ends.

    After the two sides finalised the plan yesterday, Downing Street confirmed that Boris Johnson would drop his threat to break international law.

    The Government said it would remove contentious clauses from the Internal Market Bill that would have given ministers the power to over-ride parts of the withdrawal agreement signed by the Prime Minister and EU leaders last year.

    Cabinet Office Minister Mr Gove and European Commission vice president Maros Sefcovic have been holding talks on how parts of the treaty relating to Northern Ireland will work in practice.

    There'll be chaos next year if we don't get a result, say businesses

    Britain's largest industries face chaos next year unless a Brexit deal is signed, business leaders warned yesterday.

    Leading trade bodies told MPs that with just 23 days to go until the end of the 'transition period' with the EU many firms are unprepared for a No Deal Brexit.

    Some have only just turned their attention to the issue after nine months fighting the coronavirus pandemic, they added.

    Two of the industries worst hit by No Deal would be the food and car industries, who rely on a smooth passage of goods coming in and out of the EU each day.


    HONDA has warned production at its Swindon plant may be suspended because of a parts shortage caused by transport problems. Traffic has been building up in critical areas of the carmaker's supply chain in recent weeks as the end of the lockdown in England saw a surge in imports.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9032339/Boris-Johnson-heads-Brussels-ditch-talks-EU-chief-Ursula-von-der-Leyen.html
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,296
    Makes me vomit...Bojo goes to a meeting today and a) either concedes and looks like the deal maker or b) sticks and no deal arrives and looks strong! 🤮
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    madprof said:

    Makes me vomit...Bojo goes to a meeting today and a) either concedes and looks like the deal maker or b) sticks and no deal arrives and looks strong! 🤮

    Just about all of them make me sick.
    The majority of them treat us as though we are all stupid,
    I have just been listening to Michael Gove trying to convince us that there is no border in the Irish Sea.
    He claimed that Northern Ireland has the best of both worlds, as they will stay in the single market, and remain part of the UK.
    He was unable to answer the follow up question which was, why didnt he want the best of both worlds for the rest of the UK?
    If it is the best of both worlds, why did he campaign to leave?
    Despite the fact that the number of customs checks will be increased dramatically, and
    carried out at ports in Northern Ireland, and will include food and medicines, he still persists with the idea that there will be no border.
    The subsequent interview was with a trade expert, who clearly pointed out that as there will be two different sets of rules, one on the island of Ireland the other in the rest of the UK, and that in order to move goods from one part to the other, they will have to cross a line, at which there will be checks, paperwork and inspections, on some products to determine if they are allowed in, and that tariffs can be calculated.
    He determined this to be a border.
    The EU will have permanent customs staff based in NI, to ensure the checks are carried out.
    I remember Boris on the telly saying that businesses should bin any paperwork associated with the above, and tell anyone that asked for this paperwork, that he had told them to bin it.
    Oops.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    madprof said:

    Makes me vomit...Bojo goes to a meeting today and a) either concedes and looks like the deal maker or b) sticks and no deal arrives and looks strong! 🤮

    Food rots and factories shut as port chaos hammers the UK




    Factories are shutting, food could rot on the dockside and Christmas presents may go undelivered as a perfect storm of Covid chaos and Brexit stockpiling batters the UK’s port system.

    Honda warned on Tuesday that it could be forced to temporarily close its Swindon factory as soon as today after slow-burning problems at ports and the Channel Tunnel exploded into the open.

    The closure was confirmed late on Tuesday by the BBC. It said Honda told staff the plant will restart as soon as possible, adding the car-maker is exploring arrangements like air freight.

    The carmaker is the biggest manufacturer to warn of serious disruption from the crisis, sparking fears others could follow suit.

    Meanwhile the Food and Drink Federation said that “ambient food” supplies stuck in thousands of lorries and containers are on the verge of passing their sell-by dates.

    Tim Morris, boss of the Major Ports Group trade body, said: “What the UK is experiencing is a global phenomenon. There is disruption in global supply chains the world over. We are reaping the whirlwind of an imbalance which has grown over some time.”

    Felixstowe, which handles 40pc of Britain’s container traffic, has been grappling with a jump in imports due to Covid stockpiling and preparations for a possible no-deal Brexit.

    It is now feared that chaos could spread to smaller container ports such as Southampton – which was also ­disrupted last week due to bad weather – and London Gateway.

    There are backlogs at the Channel Tunnel too, with French hauliers ­complaining in the run-up to the deadline for a Brexit trade deal.

    Around 2,000 extra trucks are crossing daily through the tunnel, mostly in the direction of the UK.

    Alex Veitch, of industry group Logistics UK, said: “It’s all a bit of a muddle at the moment. We have a lot of things going on.”



    Tailbacks have become commonplace in the past few weeks in the run-up to the port of Calais and the Eurotunnel entrance.

    Sebastien Rivera, secretary general of national hauliers federation FNTR, said: “It’s already been catastrophic for the past two weeks and it’ll be like this until the end of the year.”

    He claimed that the British “are stocking up like never before” due to fears of levies and other administrative disruption after Dec 31. Hauliers travelling to and from the UK say they had not seen such volumes in 30 years.

    In Dover, queues stretched for miles up the M20 yesterday, as traffic management systems were put in place to alleviate pressure on local car journeys. It is the fourth case of severe disruption in two weeks.

    A Port of Dover spokesman said: “We think it is down to more freight going through due to stockpiling ahead of Brexit.”

    A Home Office source said there had been “heavy traffic” at the Channel crossing and that one of the tunnels had been closed for maintenance but had now reopened. The source said: “It wasn’t a Border Force issue.”

    It came as Maidstone Grammar School – located just a mile from the M20 artery used by lorries heading to Dover – said it will stay closed for the first two days of next term to avoid disruption caused by queues. The school said it intends to reopen on Jan 6.

    Felixstowe also previously warned that dock space was clogged with up to 11,000 containers of PPE ordered by government. Sources said the backlog has since been cleared.

    Larger numbers of staff than usual at some ports are thought to be off sick due to Covid self-isolation rules, adding to the pressure.

    Meanwhile, Honda warned it is on the brink of running out of parts.
    It is considering flying in new supplies by air.

    A spokesman said: “Due to transport-related delays, potential parts shortages may interrupt production. There could be a temporary pause to production to enable any issue to be resolved.”

    Builders have said the delays are hitting supplies vital for the construction industry, including ironmongery, plumbing items, tools and natural stone. John Newcomb, of the Builders Merchants Federation, told trade magazine Building: “Rather than taking a maximum of one week to unload, it is taking up to four weeks.”

    Retail sources warned last month that Christmas stock could run low due to demand and shipping issues, while even internet titan Amazon suggested customers should buy their presents early.

    Felixstowe’s owner, Hutchison Ports UK, has brought former executive Chris Lewis back as its boss to try to manage the situation.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/food-rots-and-factories-shut-as-port-chaos-hammers-the-uk/ar-BB1bKrR4?ocid=msedgntp
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    HANSON said:

    i find hard to believe that both sides cannot find a sensible compromise more so on the fishing ...

    pretty sure i read the EU offered 15-18% returned to the UK who said they wanted 80% returned then revised that down to 60% returned and a transition period of 3/4 yrs the EU say no ..

    the UK then ask for 40% returned the EU now want 10yrs transition the UK say NO its all very confusing ...

    my understanding is the French will veto any trade deal if it effects there fisher men so that would mean the EU would keep 100% of there quota and no trade deal in place for access to UK waters to catch that quota very confusing ..

    there is other issues to get a agreement sorted on but the fish such a small % of GDP really cannot understand all the fuss on both sides



    Supermarket giant Tesco is stockpiling food in warehouses for the new year, the Daily Mirror reports, amid fears a post-Brexit trade deal will not be reached. Tesco's chairman John Allan warned there could be empty shelves and soaring prices if there is no deal, the paper reports. "We're stockpiling as much as we can," he said.



    The i newspaper also reports on the deadline to agree a Brexit deal being extended to Sunday, and says officials Lord Frost and Mr Barnier will meet again later on Thursday to resume talks. Fishing and regulatory standards remain the main obstacles in reaching a deal, the paper adds.


    The Daily Mail calls the night of talks "dramatic" - but that the dinner failed to break the deadlock over the trade deal. It described the statement from the UK government source that was issued after the talks - which said large gaps remained between the two sides - as "gloomy". By Sunday, the UK could be heading out of the EU without a trade deal, the paper says.


    Brexit makes the front pages of many of Thursday's newspapers, after Boris Johnson went to Brussels for trade deal talks with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. The Daily Telegraph says the talks went badly, but the two sides now have until Sunday to reach a deal. The PM was "downbeat about the chances of an agreement" following his three-hour dinner with Ms von der Leyen, the paper says - but the pair had a "frank discussion about the significant obstacles that remain".

    Boris Johnson's make-or-break meeting with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen dominates the morning papers.

    Most of the front pages carry a photo of the two leaders standing two metres apart as they pose for the cameras before dinner.

    For the Daily Telegraph, last night's talks in Brussels "went badly", with the prime minister "downbeat" about the likelihood of an agreement. Sources close to the talks tell the paper that Mr Johnson has "not lost hope" but the chances may be "diminishing".

    With no breakthrough, the paper says Brexit negotiators now have just four days to avoid a no-deal.

    "Deadlock at dinner" is the headline in the Daily Mail. After a "dramatic night", the paper says Sunday is now the "final" deadline for reaching a trade deal.

    Describing Downing Street's statement on the outcome of the meeting as "gloomy", the paper says the two sides will have to make a firm choice on the future of the talks.

    For the i newspaper, it was "fudge for supper", after the two leaders agreed to push back a decision until the weekend.

    The stage is now set for a "dramatic final act" of the negotiations, the Guardian says. The paper highlights Downing Street's description of the talks as "frank" - a diplomatic expression, it explains, for a heated discussion between leaders.

    The Guardian adds that any deal must be sealed by Sunday, with pressure building on both sides to find time for parliament to ratify an agreement before the end of the year.



    Ultimately, according to the Independent online, Mr Johnson left Brussels "empty-handed" - after failing to win any concessions from an EU still happy to play hardball.

    But for the Times, the prime minister was "refusing to back down". The Daily Express agrees he was standing firm - while the EU tries to punish Britain for leaving. Its headline reads: "Take it or leave it".

    With fishing quotas one of the key obstacles to a deal, last night's dinner menu of scallops and turbot provokes plenty of comment in the papers.

    For the Express, "EU chefs" were "mocking Boris" by dishing up a double helping of seafood. The paper notes that EU officials declined to reveal exactly where the ingredients were sourced.

    In its editorial, the Express says the menu will have reminded the two leaders exactly "what is at stake". "Fish-ticuffs" is the headline in the Sun.

    Food stockpiling
    The Daily Mirror leads on the news that Tesco has begun stockpiling food amid fears the Brexit trade negotiations will collapse without a deal.

    Warehouses are being loaded up to prepare for potential shortages in the New Year. The paper says the supermarket's chairman, John Allan, is warning of "empty shelves and soaring prices" if the UK defaults to World Trade Organization terms.

    And according to the Financial Times, British holidaymakers will be banned from visiting countries within the EU from 1 January - when coronavirus safety rules which allow free travel within the bloc stop applying to the UK.

    The end of the Brexit transition period means the UK will come under a system which only allows non-essential travel from a handful of countries with the lowest rates of infection.

    The European Commission has said there are no plans to add the UK to the "safe" list, which currently includes Australia and Singapore.


    Non-essential visits to the EU by UK citizens will be restricted, according to the Financial Times

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-55254142








  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,296
    @HANSON

    Will, put Covid to one side so it doesn't muddy the waters about NHS funding, economic stability etc ( on its own the cost of Covid means generations will be paying more taxes/pensions frozen, austerity and public sector cuts are round the corner)

    Regretfully, our nation's democratic decision to 'take back control'/ be our own rule makers blah blah blah will see us slide into a recession and increased costs the like of which we haven't seen for a while, affecting the poorest and most needy....

    Still

    The estimates for the rich( hedge funders etc) amongst us, with a NO deal scenario are around £165 TRILLION they will make over time.

    This makes the £400m the London based Tory donor property developer who bribed Robert Jenrick to approve a building project-against the non approval of Tower Hamlets council- before a deadline to impose the £400m levy...that's peanuts in the greater scheme of things

    No wonder Michael Gove- the face I wanted to punch the most before Rees Mogg then DomCum came along- smiles like he's sh agging a prep school year 6 boy for breakfast

    You only have to go back to the Scottish referendum to see, when it mattered...the genuine Scottish people ignored the rhetoric/propaganda/b ullsh it being touted by Jimmy Kranky and her team and voted to STAY as part of a union! ( oh and the £8b in their economy we subsidised was a factor....)

    Me, as you know..Covid's f ucked my business up the ar se, hopefully complete on my house sale on Monday and retire ( oh and can then afford to start playing more poker for those people i donate chips to on a regular basis)

    Postscript...I read today that I may not be able to visit France - because of Covid/Brexit situation- to finalise the sale of my French Mansion in the next month ( ahem 2 bed cottage hashtagfirstworldproblems) ...

    Still there could be a silver lining for me personally?

    When the sterling crashes and burns, I'll withdraw my Euros into sterling and hopefully make more money.... then I'll feel like Michael Gove! ( now where is that smally boy gone?)

    In summary...be careful what you wish for ( my last entry on Brexit discussion...only wish haysie could say the same ;) )
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    madprof said:

    @HANSON

    Will, put Covid to one side so it doesn't muddy the waters about NHS funding, economic stability etc ( on its own the cost of Covid means generations will be paying more taxes/pensions frozen, austerity and public sector cuts are round the corner)

    Regretfully, our nation's democratic decision to 'take back control'/ be our own rule makers blah blah blah will see us slide into a recession and increased costs the like of which we haven't seen for a while, affecting the poorest and most needy....

    Still

    The estimates for the rich( hedge funders etc) amongst us, with a NO deal scenario are around £165 TRILLION they will make over time.

    This makes the £400m the London based Tory donor property developer who bribed Robert Jenrick to approve a building project-against the non approval of Tower Hamlets council- before a deadline to impose the £400m levy...that's peanuts in the greater scheme of things

    No wonder Michael Gove- the face I wanted to punch the most before Rees Mogg then DomCum came along- smiles like he's sh agging a prep school year 6 boy for breakfast

    You only have to go back to the Scottish referendum to see, when it mattered...the genuine Scottish people ignored the rhetoric/propaganda/b ullsh it being touted by Jimmy Kranky and her team and voted to STAY as part of a union! ( oh and the £8b in their economy we subsidised was a factor....)

    Me, as you know..Covid's f ucked my business up the ar se, hopefully complete on my house sale on Monday and retire ( oh and can then afford to start playing more poker for those people i donate chips to on a regular basis)

    Postscript...I read today that I may not be able to visit France - because of Covid/Brexit situation- to finalise the sale of my French Mansion in the next month ( ahem 2 bed cottage hashtagfirstworldproblems) ...

    Still there could be a silver lining for me personally?

    When the sterling crashes and burns, I'll withdraw my Euros into sterling and hopefully make more money.... then I'll feel like Michael Gove! ( now where is that smally boy gone?)

    In summary...be careful what you wish for ( my last entry on Brexit discussion...only wish haysie could say the same ;) )

    I havent paid a lot of attention to politics, until the referendum, but have followed the arguments regarding Brexit quite closely.

    It is unfortunately not possible to rerun the referendum and hope for a different result, that ship has sailed.

    The one thing that I think could have changed the result is the Irish Border.

    It was rarely mentioned during the referendum campaign, but had the leave campaign been forced to reveal the border plan prior to the referendum, they may well have come unstuck.

    There is no example anywhere in the world of where two different customs territories meet, not having a border.

    WTO rules demand that there must be a border between different customs territories.

    Therefore Brexit means there has to be a border between the UK, and the EU.

    There are only two possibilities when it comes to a border.

    The first is a land border on the island of Ireland.

    The second is an Irish Sea border.

    A land border would breach the Good Friday Agreement, so nobody would think that this would be a reasonable solution, without even thinking about the other implications.

    Therefore the only realistic option is the Irish Sea border.

    Theresa May famously told Parliament that no UK PM could ever accept a border in the Irish Sea.

    Her solution was the backstop.

    Boris didnt like the backstop.

    However he later told a Democratic Unionist Party conference that "no British Conservative government could or should sign up to any such arrangement".

    Despite this we now have an Irish Sea border.

    So what plan did the Leave Campaign have for the Irish border?

    This has resulted in Northern Ireland being separated from the rest of the UK.

    There will be customs checks, extra paperwork, more hassle, and extra costs involved in trading.

    Boris now strangely describes this as NI having the best of both worlds.

    How could you describe remaining in the single market as the best of both worlds, and rule out this option for the rest of the UK?

    Boris may well go down in history as the PM that provoked the break up of the UK.

    Both Scotland and NI, clearly voted in favour of remaining in the EU.

    One of the threats posed by the UK government during the 2014 Scottish indy ref was that they would be thrown out of the EU, if they left the UK.

    So maybe this threat will have influenced Scottish fans of the EU.

    As the government seems to have botched the management of us leaving, it would be no surprise to me if it tipped a future vote in favour of independence.

    I also think that this hassle, in addition to the separation from the rest of the UK may sway some of the electorate in NI to think that a United Ireland may be more in their interest.

    I think it is now a toss up as to which one of them leaves the UK first.

    All the while the government continues to advocate that we are stronger together when it comes to the UK, but not when it comes to the EU.

    Brexit preparations have already cost almost as much as our 47 years financial contributions.

    The government seems unable to get what Liam Fox described as the easiest trade deal in history.

    Why do people in this country see the stopping of freedom of movement, as just stopping people coming into our country, and ignore that this is a loss of our rights.

    Why do people in this country always point to the fact that EU vessels fish in our waters, ignore that we also fish in their waters, and sell them most of our fish.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,296
    Irony..we fish in their waters to catch the fish that the UK public prefer to buy/eat...we export most of the UK catch to....Europe so with the likelihood of tariffs either way?

    Who'll be the first to moan about rising food prices then?
    (deffo last entry..sorry!)
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    madprof said:

    Irony..we fish in their waters to catch the fish that the UK public prefer to buy/eat...we export most of the UK catch to....Europe so with the likelihood of tariffs either way?

    Who'll be the first to moan about rising food prices then?
    (deffo last entry..sorry!)

    Its unlikely to end anytime soon.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    edited December 2020
    madprof said:

    Irony..we fish in their waters to catch the fish that the UK public prefer to buy/eat...we export most of the UK catch to....Europe so with the likelihood of tariffs either way?

    Who'll be the first to moan about rising food prices then?
    (deffo last entry..sorry!)

    I put this on the other thread.
  • vaigretvaigret Member Posts: 16,281
    madprof said:

    Irony..we fish in their waters to catch the fish that the UK public prefer to buy/eat...we export most of the UK catch to....Europe so with the likelihood of tariffs either way?

    Who'll be the first to moan about rising food prices then?
    (deffo last entry..sorry!)

    hi mate their wont be many fishing boats in uk fleet soon anyway. Most crewed by foriegners who are not essential workers under new laws
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    vaigret said:

    madprof said:

    Irony..we fish in their waters to catch the fish that the UK public prefer to buy/eat...we export most of the UK catch to....Europe so with the likelihood of tariffs either way?

    Who'll be the first to moan about rising food prices then?
    (deffo last entry..sorry!)

    hi mate their wont be many fishing boats in uk fleet soon anyway. Most crewed by foriegners who are not essential workers under new laws
    Leaving the EU doesnt mean we are sending all foreigners home.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    What does a No Deal Brexit mean to YOU? Will grocery bills really soar, could food run out... and what about your holiday? As EU talks run into the sand, ROSS CLARK explains the repercussions



    Unless there is progress in the negotiations by Sunday, the likelihood is that Britain will crash out of the EU transitional arrangements on January 1 in the hardest possible way. Here's what it could mean for the rest of us... On some dairy products imported from the EU, such as French cheeses (top left), tariffs will be over 30 per cent and on some meat products over 40 per cent. We are 105 per cent self-sufficient in milk, so the price of a pint shouldn't rise (bottom right). In the absence of a deal, UK citizens will still be able to travel to the EU without a visa for up to six months in a year - which will cover most holidays (centre). The cost of travel insurance to the EU could rise as policies tend to 'piggyback' on the EHIC (top right). If Britain becomes an 'unlisted' country under the EU Pet Travel Scheme you will have to get your pet microchipped (bottom left). Fishermen will be able to fish in UK waters without suffering competition from EU trawlers. However, they will find themselves banned from fishing in EU waters (middle left). In order to drive (middle right) in Europe you will need an international driving permit, which is available over the counter at the Post Office for £5.50. You will also need a green card from your insurer.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9041119/What-does-No-Deal-Brexit-mean-ROSS-CLARK-explains-repercussions-handy-guide.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    madprof said:

    Irony..we fish in their waters to catch the fish that the UK public prefer to buy/eat...we export most of the UK catch to....Europe so with the likelihood of tariffs either way?

    Who'll be the first to moan about rising food prices then?
    (deffo last entry..sorry!)

    Norway says it will stop European AND British fishing boats from accessing its cod-rich waters from January 1 as a result of their failure to agree Brexit deal
    UK-Norway deal was trumpeted in September as a landmark post-Brexit pact
    But Oslo wants three-way deal with Britain and the EU before opening its waters
    UK fishing fleet typically lands £32million of fish a year from Norwegian waters



    Norway, which is not part of the European Union but is part of the European single market, negotiates with the European Union about granting access to their respective waters.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9043253/Norway-close-access-waters-EU-British-fishing-vessels-Jan-1.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,519
    edited December 2020



    The decision to put ships on standby to patrol UK waters, in the event that no Brexit trade deal is struck, prompts the headline "Gunships to guard our fish" in the Daily Express.

    It says Royal Navy ships will have the power to halt, inspect and impound EU fishing boats if they stray into UK waters. "Sometimes only a show of strength will make foreign governments understand you are serious", says the paper.

    The Daily Mail describes the possible deployment of ships and helicopters as a "dramatic ratcheting up" of no-deal contingency planning, and says it evokes memories of the Cod Wars in the 1970s. Sources tell the paper the four vessels will be deployed "when it gets feisty".



    The fact that this crunch moment in Brexit falls exactly one year after Boris Johnson was elected with a big majority does not escape attention.

    A cartoon in the Daily Telegraph shows him clutching a birthday cake - but engulfed by a huge shadow. The Conservative Home website says this weekend is his "most significant test".

    'Move to compromise'
    "As with lockdown and the obesity strategy", it says, "we could see another move towards compromise, although whether it pleases Remainers or Leavers remains to be seen."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-55283043










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