@johnmonty That's not the point I'm making though is it. It's the fact you were intentionally giving your stack to another short stacked player at the table. Placing yourself as 'away', and limping into them to intentionally give your stack to someone. If this promo wasn't running, this still would not be allowed.
100% bad etiquette and cheating even. I appreciate his game but if he has been intentionally passing chips to another player, and placing himelf as away on purpose to detriment your streak, that's cheating 👍
You intentionally passed your chips over to them in multiple instances to ensure another player didn't cash. This is not allowed. It wouldn't even be allowed if this promo wasn't happening.
I mean I definitely didn't and I could have pretty easily and made you lose the game, since your streak is still going I will avoid playing your other games so there can be no doubt I have done something wrong in those
@Kinda6677 He's more than welcome to delete his comment. If you think blatant chip passing is ok then fair enough. I have the hand history which I'm happy to share with whoever relevant. Me naming is just bad etiquette, it doesn't breach any rules.
why not just post the hand histories to begin with instead of vague accusations?
As much as Monty infuriates me on the tables I have to agree with him on this. The promo creates this dynamic. You want the best streak but you also know breaking someone else's streak will help. I wouldn't even say bad etiquette just 100% playing the game as it should. Eat or be eaten
This definitely isn't cheating, I wouldn't even say it's bad etiquette.
Firstly, it can only be cheating if he knows the other player and they are working together, something he wouldn't do. In this scenario, John would want all players but you to have chips, this is a dynamic that this competition creates whether you like it or not. So it is far too strong to accuse anyone of cheating in this scenario.
Regarding etiquette. This has nothing to do with etiquette. This situation wouldn't happen in a day to day DYM. This is just optimal strategy and you should expect to face plays like this against people who know what they are doing. If this is not a strategy you would be willing to use if you were leading, then unfortunately you're not playing the promotion correctly.
Really, it should be your etiquette that comes into question, as you're trying to play the victim card to steal the prize in my opinion.
Agree with @The_Reflex. It is only cheating if two or more parties are working together to target someone. There is more value in the package then there is in maximising ev in individual games. Of course people are going to block streaks when they are first. It is the correct strategy. This kind of things happens in other forms of poker like tournaments where big stack can be incentivised to not bust the short stack to ICM f*** the other stacks, or when a player is away on the bubble of a SnG and the big stack walks the away players BB to jam any two cards the next hand. It is just the correct strategy. You're playing a format entirely built around ICM why are you surprised? Sky have ran promos like this for years and DYM regs just get on with it and realise it is part of the game. The amount of games it takes to make 4k equity of course he will target people threatening that.
@The_Reflex If you read my first post, I enquired whether deliberately passing chips to another player on numerous occasions constitutes cheating... And whether it was allowed to intentionally pass chips to another player at the table to prevent another from winning. In my eyes, this is cheating. Now this may not necessarily be the case, all I did was ask.
Regarding playing the victim card, get real. I've not once ever posted on here, and purely wanted opinions. If they win the prize money fair and square, I have no issues whatsoever. I've always respected his game, and believe anyone who puts that kind of volume in deserves to be rewarded (i.e. a Vegas Package). Not that it matters, but my streak was not even that close when I accused him this afternoon either, and was currently in 3rd place.
John and I have battled it out in a promo like this before where the package was determined half by volume and half by results. I was running it super wide vs John as we were 1 V 1 for the package and he had a horrendous session. maybe lost 600 or so which is hard to do in DYM's but he didn't complain on the forum. He sucked it up and went again the week after and got his package then. He did put me in a headlock when we met in Vegas though.
@radzer02 If deliberate soft play and chip passing to another is allowed then fair enough. I don't know the specific rules Sky has, hence me asking on here. In my eyes, it's cheating, but I don't claim I'm 100% correct.
@Bertie283 I'm sorry, but by posting this publicly, you have essentially done one of 2 things: 1) Shown a lack of understanding of leaderboard based promotions and the types of strategies that can be used in order to win then. OR 2) Used victim like language in an attempt to gain support that way.
If it is 1) then that is cool. Leaderboard promos can be brutal, there's £4k on the line so you have to tough it out like Groggy said. It's a battle and you need to find edges where you can. As long as people don't work together then it is absolutely fine.
@FeelGroggy So enquiring for opinions on whether deliberate chip passing is allowed within the Promos rules should be ostracized then?
Asking privately to Tikay/sky staff or even making a post without posting aliases would be how I would have gone about enquiring. I'm afraid I simply don't agree with your opinion, or the opinions of the two new forum accounts that popped up within 7 minutes of each other. Not sure if that counts as collusion or bad etiquette, maybe I'll open a forum thread and see.
It would do your case a lot of good if you posted some hands that you felt crossed the line into cheating. Without proof we just have vague accusations.
As it stands I kind of agree that as long as no colluding occurs between two players there's not really any rules being broken as a player is simply maximising their EV which is the correct thing to do?
Comments
If this promo wasn't running, this still would not be allowed.
Afternoon.
This thread has now been passed up to the Poker Manager.
As long as we all keep it civil, we'll keep the thread open.
Firstly, it can only be cheating if he knows the other player and they are working together, something he wouldn't do. In this scenario, John would want all players but you to have chips, this is a dynamic that this competition creates whether you like it or not. So it is far too strong to accuse anyone of cheating in this scenario.
Regarding etiquette. This has nothing to do with etiquette. This situation wouldn't happen in a day to day DYM. This is just optimal strategy and you should expect to face plays like this against people who know what they are doing. If this is not a strategy you would be willing to use if you were leading, then unfortunately you're not playing the promotion correctly.
Really, it should be your etiquette that comes into question, as you're trying to play the victim card to steal the prize in my opinion.
Sky have ran promos like this for years and DYM regs just get on with it and realise it is part of the game. The amount of games it takes to make 4k equity of course he will target people threatening that.
Regarding playing the victim card, get real. I've not once ever posted on here, and purely wanted opinions. If they win the prize money fair and square, I have no issues whatsoever. I've always respected his game, and believe anyone who puts that kind of volume in deserves to be rewarded (i.e. a Vegas Package). Not that it matters, but my streak was not even that close when I accused him this afternoon either, and was currently in 3rd place.
1) Shown a lack of understanding of leaderboard based promotions and the types of strategies that can be used in order to win then. OR
2) Used victim like language in an attempt to gain support that way.
If it is 1) then that is cool. Leaderboard promos can be brutal, there's £4k on the line so you have to tough it out like Groggy said. It's a battle and you need to find edges where you can. As long as people don't work together then it is absolutely fine.
It would do your case a lot of good if you posted some hands that you felt crossed the line into cheating. Without proof we just have vague accusations.
As it stands I kind of agree that as long as no colluding occurs between two players there's not really any rules being broken as a player is simply maximising their EV which is the correct thing to do?