great post walesboy, summoned it up nicely. blackfish for the love of god i didnt say i couldnt or didnt win at this level. some very good players playing very good poker. sat with a guy snooky yest , very good and mylena owned the table for 5hrs!!. what i said was i found myself playing a much wider range and the limp limp limp on 4x 6x 8x bb raises by SOME players was making me smile. for someone who wants to take his poker to the next level and pit his wits against "better players/ ones with bigger br i was finding the tables wernt offering me what i wanted. now if sparce and lolufold and were on tv want to drop to 2/4p for a couple of hrs 1 night this would quite possible "scratch my itch" phil
FWIW I see it like a computer game, you have to beat level 1 before you can play level 2 etc Each level is different and it is a test of skill to see if you can adapt and learn to beat the different levels. Those guys saying the beats are worse in lower levels should just adjust thier range and not get in as many marginal positions etc, hey presto, the beats dont occur so frequently. Just because you cant 4 bet light and run a three barrel bluff at 4nl does not mean its rubbish, it means you have to play different. If you cant adadpt your game to the situation is that not a flaw in your own game? Posted by Rubes375
great post walesboy, summoned it up nicely. blackfish for the love of god i didnt say i couldnt or didnt win at this level. some very good players playing very good poker. sat with a guy snooky yest , very good and mylena owned the table for 5hrs!!. what i said was i found myself playing a much wider range and the limp limp limp on 4x 6x 8x bb raises by SOME players was making me smile. for someone who wants to take his poker to the next level and pit his wits against "better players/ ones with bigger br i was finding the tables wernt offering me what i wanted. now if sparce and lolufold and were on tv want to drop to 2/4p for a couple of hrs 1 night this would quite possible "scratch my itch" phil Posted by pod1
I’m not going to say much that hasn’t already be said, but I think this takes thread back to the op. You want to make the move to cash. Now judging by past posts, not including this thread, I’m guessing that your a decent player that knows his way around the felt. That said and with the availability of a decent bank roll, I don’t think you should be hanging around the 4nl arena.
That is not to criticise the level, but you want to take your poker to the next level. This whole argument about starting at the bottom, with your ability seems a bit lost on me.
This debate takes me back to when Both Rich Orford and Ed Giddins (I think), hosted a show with that out spoken nutter they call John McCririck.There was a debate regarding women not improving their game because they play in women only tournaments, therefore not learning the aggressive side of the game. Although I totally dislike this guy and am horrified to admit this, there was some sense to the point he was trying to make. Giddins also made a comment a long the lines that, if you play golf with better players your game can only improve.
As mentioned previously, It can be boring playing ABC, at 4nl, simply because of the value which does lead to the type of holdings being played that are less likely to be played at higher levels or as often at least. Although in principle the value of a raise of 4x 6x 8x bb should be the same at what ever level we play, it’s not and can affect the way you adapt to the level, as well as already mentioned affecting your own opening range, which will be much wider at the lower tables. So are you learning anything or just picking up habits that would hinder your game at a higher level.
There’s a lot of good advise on this thread, so what ever level you find the most suitable, I wish you well.
Tikay, "The flawed logic exists almost universally in poker, in no other game could it possibly be said that good players cannot beat bad players. I mean, think about it!" Tiger Woods won't miss 5 putts from 3 inches, Messi won't miss 5 goals from 3 yards and horses don't trip up 5 feet from the finishing line 5 races in a row, I'm no Durrr, far from it but yesterday I lost over £1,000 in pots on the river when I was so far in front on the turn it was ridiculous, try grinding that back. Thursday evening I hit 3 sets in 7 hands on one table and lost all 3 pots!! That's poker, you get outdrawn, but maybe if you played cash on the site more you'd know how hard it is to beat the game when the game keeps kicking the **** out of you, its not as simple as bad players can't beat good ones because they do all day long, skill only goes so far, luck is the very reason the fish play. You're the analyst, you're holding JJ on an AJx flop and the fish bets half his stack at you, what you doing folding? No you're shoving he's got QQ and calls because he's a fish and can't fold......... turn a Q, this afternoon on here. Bad players can't beat good ones, you're having a laugh, want any more? Back to the OP point, if you see the flop with AA and 4 others do, you're no favourite against the field, yes you have to thin the field, as I said raise and raise big at 2/4p, get the field to fold and see the flop with one or two opponents. Yes I am well aware that you have to play the low stakes differently, I can beat it. But IMO play at least 10/20 as dohhhhhh suggests or 15/30. Posted by stien
You're quoting hands in isolation though. You can't look at poker like that. You have to look at the big picture. You have to imagine the scenario with the JJJ on the AJx flop being played out 10,000 times not once. Nobody's is denying that bad beats happen, but if you played the "fish" over hundreds of thousands of hands, you'd beat them.
Comments
I’m not going to say much that hasn’t already be said, but I think this takes thread back to the op. You want to make the move to cash. Now judging by past posts, not including this thread, I’m guessing that your a decent player that knows his way around the felt. That said and with the availability of a decent bank roll, I don’t think you should be hanging around the 4nl arena.
That is not to criticise the level, but you want to take your poker to the next level. This whole argument about starting at the bottom, with your ability seems a bit lost on me.
This debate takes me back to when Both Rich Orford and Ed Giddins (I think), hosted a show with that out spoken nutter they call John McCririck.There was a debate regarding women not improving their game because they play in women only tournaments, therefore not learning the aggressive side of the game. Although I totally dislike this guy and am horrified to admit this, there was some sense to the point he was trying to make. Giddins also made a comment a long the lines that, if you play golf with better players your game can only improve.
As mentioned previously, It can be boring playing ABC, at 4nl, simply because of the value which does lead to the type of holdings being played that are less likely to be played at higher levels or as often at least. Although in principle the value of a raise of 4x 6x 8x bb should be the same at what ever level we play, it’s not and can affect the way you adapt to the level, as well as already mentioned affecting your own opening range, which will be much wider at the lower tables. So are you learning anything or just picking up habits that would hinder your game at a higher level.There’s a lot of good advise on this thread, so what ever level you find the most suitable, I wish you well.
Mac