Hi Waller think that was me with the QQ against your 44 earlier Was shocked to see you flip over 44 though.
Everyone of the decent DYM'ers are all the same when it comes to shoving light on the bubble. you just have to do it but for me it's about trying to do it against the right players.
Having said that 44 is a little light for me in the hand earlier. I tend to fold most small pocket pairs pre (66 or below) at this stage perhaps with the exception of blind vs blind. I will probably shove limpers if in bb with low pp's but that's very opponent dependant.
With the QJ hand the guy who called with A2 made a bad call although again shoving here is a little light for me. Personally I'd try and get away with a min raise, 2.5x or 3x steal. If they flat you've got a hand that can flop well and it's an easy check fold on most flops. If they reraise or shove your intial raise it's also an easy fold pre. You'd still be left with at least a 7 bb stack for shoving either way. Be interested to hear jacs views although qj is a monster to him so he'll prob say shove too
We're about the same standard (I think) so take or leave that advice above as you please lol
I just had a brutal downswing myself (which you probably heard me moaning about at the tables lol) so I know how you feel. As I say we're prob about the same standard so if you ever have anything you want to discuss with someone i'm happy to listen, we could probably learn something from eachother. Realise we play a lot together so you might not want to do that and that's cool.
Not a dym player, but the JQ hand sounds like a really standard shove. The 44, I dunno! !?!? Posted by DOHHHHHHH
I can't see the QJ being a shove. If the big blind folds we win 300 chips uncontested, does a stack of 2400 vs 2100 increase our likelihood to cash by enough to make it worthwhile to risk our whole tournament?! I personally don't think so!
By 2.5x'ing it we risk losing 500 but probably get 90% of the folds the shove does. So if they wake up with a hand and shove pre our stack falls to 1600 and 8bb's. Still a very useful stack to get a cash in a dym.
Bear in mind that things like M, Nash, Stoving and ICM may as well be a foreign language to me. I probably do apply these things but just don't know what the correct jargon is these days. So, this will be pretty basic stuff from a poker simpleton. You never know though, some of it may be useful.
This is by no means a dig at Dohhhhhhh but I think there is an argument to say that 'standard' is overused and incorrect in a lot of cases.
The hand Waller has describe may well be standard at first glance. However, I think it's anything but standard. I find the 100/200 level by far the most difficult to play. In this situation I might min raise, shove, fold or even from time to time limp! (I appreciate that's not really a very helpful answer Waller) How is the table playing? Are 2 likely to go to war soon enough? What do we think of the big blind? Even more importantly what does he think of us?
There are players who are going to need AA, KK to call a shove in this spot but may peel with pairs, broadway cards etc. Others, like in the hand you played, will just snap with a terrible Ace.
I understand JD's view but disagree a little. If I min raise here, then I'm going with the hand the majority of the time. Therefore I probably want to be a little stronger than JQ. I really hate putting 25% of our stack in the middle and then folding. Never 2.5xing here. 2x achieves exactly the same thing and 100 chips is significant. Readless, are you being balanced? I think balance is over rated sometimes but in Dym's playing the same players every day it's important. If you would play premiums in exactly the same manner it's fine.
A few examples
A few days ago at 100/200 Similar stack sizes to Wallers hand. I have Ace Rag in the SB. Very good player in the big. I think I should shove or fold but min raise instead. He puts me in, I fold. His hand was irrelevant.
Last night Again 100/200 I have 10's in the SB. BB is a reg who will probably perceive me as 'aggro' (I know, bizarre) I know he will very rarely flat here, which would leave me playing guessing games on broadway flops. Shove and I lose any value. I min, he shoves, I call, he shows J9 and I cash.
Last night Very strong last 4. TimmyRaRa, SuperSnedd and Walks. 200/400 and we all bizarrely have near enough identical chips. Pretty much for the entire level UTG shoved. If there had been a weak player at the table, I'm sure it would have played out differently. No mistakes were being made and it was just going to eventually come down to the BB finding a hand strong enough to call with. It happened Snedd had AA and Walks was really unlucky as he actually had a big hand himself, QQ
From a while ago Again 100/200 A renowned player on here who used to keep a diary is on my right. He has around 1200, I have maybe 2400. The other 2 are out of sight. I'm in the BB and feel that 100% of the time if it folds to him, then he will shove. He obliges and I make the call with K3. I hold against 2 low cards. He mentioned in his diary at the time that he felt when he played lower stakes then he was getting called very lightly. I wondered if he was talking about that hand. To me, that one was standard. He's a good player. Fold here and he's up to 1500. Next hand he has the opportunity to get in there before me again. Against 2 players who will be very unlikely to call. He now has 1800. Totally back in the game.
A very good player at mainly the £10 stakes beat me up quite often in the SB v BB situations. I would min, he would shove. I'd call it off and he would show me a big hand. I then noticed something. He would never call in the BB. Sometimes though, he would put in a tiny 3bet. I wanted to see what this meant and 4bet all in. He folded. I'm yet to see him call after he has done this and it's probably been 10/15 times now.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, from far standard, each hand will be very different against different opponents. The key, I guess, is to keep making and updating notes. ... There are a few players on here who are signed up to Dyms strategy sites. Not really for me. Great basic strategy but very exploitable in my opinion. I could even set up my own 'Jacs No Frills Dym site' and charge half the price. Play supertight early on and then 4 handed just shove shove shove. Play a bit differently to these players and they're really out of their comfort zone as they would never play the hand the same way. ... A little shorter Fold the 4's
Many thanks to jd, dohhhhh and especially you jac for what is a very detailed response. It says a lot about the man you are, I mean you didn't have to give me any advice at given the fact we often bump into each other on the DYM tables (well, until you moved up to the 22's anyway!)
In total agreement with all 3 of you about the 44...spew!! At the time I couldn't win a flip, wasn't getting any decent spots to build a stack in ANY of my games and I guess this lead to the "ffs ALL IN!" haha. The QJ (and similar spots) I'm not too concerned about, blind v blind, 4 handed in the later stages I think we have to widen our shoving range slightly. Plus, like you said, if the oppo wants to call with A2 I still have a reasonable chance of winning the hand. I guess this is why note making is important so you know who will call you raggy hands and who won't.
I only had a small session tonight as I was working late. I took everything on board and ended up with a +£32 session which I will always be happy with at my level. Still a couple of leaks to sort out (mainly knowing when I really shouldn't have cbet!!!)
Thanks again, much appreciated. Best of luck on the tables
Footy - Q. What's worse than getting thrashed 4-1 live on the box for everyone to see?
A. Getting humiliated 6-0 against a very average Shef Weds team! ... live for everyone to see. Sigh. I thought programmes with such graphic content weren't allowed on before 9!
Pokers - Congrats on the heater! ... No very little about DYM's, played a couple before but didn't really get in to them (Don't like folding enough to be any good at them!)
Hey Jac, just caught up with your diary! Footy - Q. What's worse than getting thrashed 4-1 live on the box for everyone to see? A. Getting humiliated 6-0 against a very average Shef Weds team! ... live for everyone to see. Sigh. I thought programmes with such graphic content weren't allowed on before 9! Pokers - Congrats on the heater! ... No very little about DYM's, played a couple before but didn't really get in to them (Don't like folding enough to be any good at them!) Hope the run good continues! Posted by 77Chris91
Went into Derby for the competition. Got there just before 8.00. "Oh, you have no entrants yet. Have you put the time back since I last came?"
"Nope"
"Great!, i'll sod off home then." ..
Played the rebuy. Lose a big pot that I played as badly as I possibly could to "The Beast" aka Bighawk. No problem, I'd just had a text "Pub mate?" Down to 2000 chips, I answer "Give me 10 mins" 10 mins later I have 18950 chips. "Better leave it mate"
Say to the beast. "Watch me get knocked out just before closing now"
10.51 - I have QQ in the BB. UTG ships about 25 bigs! SB calls. I call. 66 for UTG. An interesting Ace 6 for SB. Flop has a 6.
Balls! ... Edit at 00.17 Thursday appears to be better Played about 12 Dym's. I say played. Actually played about 6 hands in all those games. Quite aggressive would be one way of describing the games. £130odd profit. Minus the rebuys, around £100 on the day. Think I might stick to what I know in future. (ensures guaranteed pub time)
Pretty annoyed about this afternoons poker. Lost a bit, no biggie, £26 which could have been worse.
The tables are in general, very friendly at the slightly higher stakes. Today, I played with a guy I'd not seen before, Maxthxrk27. He is semi-competent, no more, about £25 up in his short time on here. What he does unfortunately is spend every game abusing the rest of the table. Not content to win a hand, he then has to tell the player who lost it how bad he is and then call him names. None of this was directed at me. Well not until I suggested that he maybe calm down a bit with the abuse. Inevitably, it was then my turn. His final act before I finished my session was to let his timebar run right down until calling a shove with his aces. If he won, I'd cash but I was really hoping he would get sucked out on.
Obviously, I'll get told off for putting his name up. I will hear that there are two sides to every story. Shame, it would be nice if I could just be trusted on this one. I'm sure any of the other players who were at the tables would happily verify all this. Yes, I suppose that I should just report it to Customer Care (I will later on).
welcome back J A nti-troll C you've been missed and we need some cover for when harry is on his hols Posted by GELDY
Was going to be a one off Mr Geldy. Business is in safe hands anyway. Just been back on. Turned the loss into a £40 win for the day.
Unfortunately we had more of the same. Player from earlier was still dishing out the abuse. Then we had lxdxdx21 start grumbling at another player about playing slowly. That got sorted out. Then when I put a bit of a beat on him, he got angry again.
It wasn't particulary imaginative. Just "moron" followed by "lucky moron" and so on.
Hopefully these people will disappear once the promo finishes.
..............
Edit - Sigh, I suppose I should take these gentlemans names out. Well mostly out anyway
Any legal people / car insurance people out there? Could do with some advice.
Last September, I took my car to a hand wash. I was directed where to park. It was a small space surrounded by fences. Immediately a gust of wind blew a steel fence panel that was propped up against the fence onto my car.
The damage caused were scratches to 3 panels and a dint in the door panel.
The owner was very apologetic and said he would get it all fixed. He said he would understand if I wanted to just go through insurance, but would appreciate a chance to put it right himself. Seemed a decent bloke and so I agreed. He arranged for someone to come and get the dent out. He attempted to get the scratches out himself but failed. He then got some matching paint from the dealer and had another go. This time it looked even worse. It was clear that it needed to go to a body shop.
He sent me to someone he knew. I wasn't happy that they could do the job to my satisfaction. The car is pretty new, a 12 plate C Class and so I wanted it to go to Merc or an approved body shop. He understood and said it would be be for the best if we went through insurance after all.
I called my insurer and gave them the details. Told me they would be in contact with the guy and get back to me within a couple of weeks. Today, some 8 weeks later, I have received a call telling me that the hand wash deny negligence as the fence had been there for a couple of months with no problems. Insurance guy tells me that there's nothing they can really do as they can't prove anything. They will continue to chase the guy but I will eventually have to pay the £300 excess myself to get the work done.
Anywhere I can go with this? I'm guessing not and I will just have to stump up the cash but any help would be really appreciated.
Maxally, Gazza thanks for your input. (Filters wouldn't let me put in my first response)
Vespa
Exactly what I thought. Although the insurer seems to think he could just say that it was a gesture, rather than an admission.
Bit I'm confused about is surely with the majority of claims, it's just one guys word against another's? How many accidents can be proven? Is there not some body who will eventually have to apportion blame if no one is budging?
Comments
Not a dym player, but the JQ hand sounds like a really standard shove.
The 44, I dunno! !?!?
Ok
Bear in mind that things like M, Nash, Stoving and ICM may as well be a foreign language to me. I probably do apply these things but just don't know what the correct jargon is these days. So, this will be pretty basic stuff from a poker simpleton. You never know though, some of it may be useful.
This is by no means a dig at Dohhhhhhh but I think there is an argument to say that 'standard' is overused and incorrect in a lot of cases.
The hand Waller has describe may well be standard at first glance. However, I think it's anything but standard.
I find the 100/200 level by far the most difficult to play.
In this situation I might min raise, shove, fold or even from time to time limp! (I appreciate that's not really a very helpful answer Waller)
How is the table playing? Are 2 likely to go to war soon enough? What do we think of the big blind? Even more importantly what does he think of us?
There are players who are going to need AA, KK to call a shove in this spot but may peel with pairs, broadway cards etc. Others, like in the hand you played, will just snap with a terrible Ace.
I understand JD's view but disagree a little. If I min raise here, then I'm going with the hand the majority of the time. Therefore I probably want to be a little stronger than JQ. I really hate putting 25% of our stack in the middle and then folding. Never 2.5xing here. 2x achieves exactly the same thing and 100 chips is significant. Readless, are you being balanced? I think balance is over rated sometimes but in Dym's playing the same players every day it's important. If you would play premiums in exactly the same manner it's fine.
A few examples
A few days ago at 100/200
Similar stack sizes to Wallers hand. I have Ace Rag in the SB. Very good player in the big. I think I should shove or fold but min raise instead. He puts me in, I fold. His hand was irrelevant.
Last night
Again 100/200
I have 10's in the SB. BB is a reg who will probably perceive me as 'aggro' (I know, bizarre) I know he will very rarely flat here, which would leave me playing guessing games on broadway flops. Shove and I lose any value. I min, he shoves, I call, he shows J9 and I cash.
Last night
Very strong last 4. TimmyRaRa, SuperSnedd and Walks. 200/400 and we all bizarrely have near enough identical chips. Pretty much for the entire level UTG shoved. If there had been a weak player at the table, I'm sure it would have played out differently. No mistakes were being made and it was just going to eventually come down to the BB finding a hand strong enough to call with. It happened Snedd had AA and Walks was really unlucky as he actually had a big hand himself, QQ
From a while ago
Again 100/200
A renowned player on here who used to keep a diary is on my right. He has around 1200, I have maybe 2400. The other 2 are out of sight. I'm in the BB and feel that 100% of the time if it folds to him, then he will shove. He obliges and I make the call with K3. I hold against 2 low cards. He mentioned in his diary at the time that he felt when he played lower stakes then he was getting called very lightly. I wondered if he was talking about that hand. To me, that one was standard. He's a good player. Fold here and he's up to 1500. Next hand he has the opportunity to get in there before me again. Against 2 players who will be very unlikely to call. He now has 1800. Totally back in the game.
A very good player at mainly the £10 stakes beat me up quite often in the SB v BB situations. I would min, he would shove. I'd call it off and he would show me a big hand. I then noticed something. He would never call in the BB. Sometimes though, he would put in a tiny 3bet. I wanted to see what this meant and 4bet all in. He folded. I'm yet to see him call after he has done this and it's probably been 10/15 times now.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, from far standard, each hand will be very different against different opponents. The key, I guess, is to keep making and updating notes.
...
There are a few players on here who are signed up to Dyms strategy sites. Not really for me. Great basic strategy but very exploitable in my opinion. I could even set up my own 'Jacs No Frills Dym site' and charge half the price.
Play supertight early on and then 4 handed just shove shove shove. Play a bit differently to these players and they're really out of their comfort zone as they would never play the hand the same way.
...
A little shorter
Fold the 4's
In total agreement with all 3 of you about the 44...spew!! At the time I couldn't win a flip, wasn't getting any decent spots to build a stack in ANY of my games and I guess this lead to the "ffs ALL IN!" haha. The QJ (and similar spots) I'm not too concerned about, blind v blind, 4 handed in the later stages I think we have to widen our shoving range slightly. Plus, like you said, if the oppo wants to call with A2 I still have a reasonable chance of winning the hand. I guess this is why note making is important so you know who will call you raggy hands and who won't.
I only had a small session tonight as I was working late. I took everything on board and ended up with a +£32 session which I will always be happy with at my level. Still a couple of leaks to sort out (mainly knowing when I really shouldn't have cbet!!!)
Thanks again, much appreciated. Best of luck on the tables
Footy - Q. What's worse than getting thrashed 4-1 live on the box for everyone to see?
A. Getting humiliated 6-0 against a very average Shef Weds team! ... live for everyone to see. Sigh. I thought programmes with such graphic content weren't allowed on before 9!
Pokers - Congrats on the heater! ... No very little about DYM's, played a couple before but didn't really get in to them (Don't like folding enough to be any good at them!)
Hope the run good continues!
Yeah, we were both pretty awful.
Went into Derby for the competition. Got there just before 8.00. "Oh, you have no entrants yet. Have you put the time back since I last came?"
"Nope"
"Great!, i'll sod off home then."
..
Played the rebuy. Lose a big pot that I played as badly as I possibly could to "The Beast" aka Bighawk. No problem, I'd just had a text "Pub mate?" Down to 2000 chips, I answer "Give me 10 mins" 10 mins later I have 18950 chips. "Better leave it mate"
Say to the beast. "Watch me get knocked out just before closing now"
10.51 - I have QQ in the BB. UTG ships about 25 bigs! SB calls. I call. 66 for UTG. An interesting Ace 6 for SB.
Flop has a 6.
Balls!
...
Edit at 00.17
Thursday appears to be better
Played about 12 Dym's. I say played. Actually played about 6 hands in all those games. Quite aggressive would be one way of describing the games. £130odd profit. Minus the rebuys, around £100 on the day. Think I might stick to what I know in future. (ensures guaranteed pub time)
Lost a bit, no biggie, £26 which could have been worse.
The tables are in general, very friendly at the slightly higher stakes.
Today, I played with a guy I'd not seen before, Maxthxrk27. He is semi-competent, no more, about £25 up in his short time on here. What he does unfortunately is spend every game abusing the rest of the table. Not content to win a hand, he then has to tell the player who lost it how bad he is and then call him names. None of this was directed at me. Well not until I suggested that he maybe calm down a bit with the abuse. Inevitably, it was then my turn.
His final act before I finished my session was to let his timebar run right down until calling a shove with his aces. If he won, I'd cash but I was really hoping he would get sucked out on.
Obviously, I'll get told off for putting his name up. I will hear that there are two sides to every story. Shame, it would be nice if I could just be trusted on this one. I'm sure any of the other players who were at the tables would happily verify all this. Yes, I suppose that I should just report it to Customer Care (I will later on).
Rant over
Just been back on. Turned the loss into a £40 win for the day.
Unfortunately we had more of the same. Player from earlier was still dishing out the abuse.
Then we had lxdxdx21 start grumbling at another player about playing slowly. That got sorted out. Then when I put a bit of a beat on him, he got angry again.
It wasn't particulary imaginative. Just "moron" followed by "lucky moron" and so on.
Hopefully these people will disappear once the promo finishes.
..............
Edit - Sigh, I suppose I should take these gentlemans names out. Well mostly out anyway
I would be thinking that with him offering/trying to do the work is kind of admitting liability?
you are screwed
gust of wind blew over a steel panel
pull another one
better continue the run good