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Account restrictions - "Liability management"
EvilPingu
Member Posts: 3,462
Important Service Announcement
We write with reference to the account you hold with Sky Betting & Gaming, User ID: MY USER ID, REMOVED FOR SECURITY
After a recent review by our operations team, it has been decided that this account requires tighter liability management. Unfortunately this means your account will no longer be eligible for any of our Gaming (Sky Vegas, Sky Casino, Sky Poker & Sky Bingo) bonuses or promotions. This restriction also applies to any gaming element of any promotion offered by Sky Bet.
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@Tikay10 @Sky__James @Sky__Sam et al.
Can you look into this please? I committed the cardinal sin of daring to win money on a Sportsbook, and taking a deposit offer given to me (or six) on Sky Casino with 1x wagering because it was +EV.
If you want to not offer me Vegas/Casino/Bet promos any more, that's fine. Regrettably, poor prices and restricting winners to pennies and removing promotion eligibility is where sports betting is at in 2018 and I don't have any issues with not giving me casino promotions if I'm only interested in playing casino games when I've been given a "Deposit £300 get £150 with 1x wagering" offer where the Maths is obviously hugely in my favour, as has happened in the past.
However, Poker is a game where you take rake from me regardless, and a site is indifferent to who wins - The only thing that removing winning players from Poker promotions will do is reduce liquidity on your Poker site.
Also, I have never abused a promotion in my life - Yes, I've placed bets (e.g. the first race offer on Saturdays) where I'm going to win money in the long run, but I've never done anything that breaks any of the terms of a promotion. Obviously you always have the right to remove Sports/Casino promotions from non-recreational players at any time blahblahblah and that's something I accept.
But to ban me from Poker promotions for "liability management" AKA winning on other products while the people who were deliberately flipping on Spin Up and Capped tables for Vegas packages get a slap on the wrist and told not to do it any more is vile.
It's not just me - I've also spoken to a friend who has received an identical email today, although I'm not going to name them for obvious reasons. Up to them if they wish to post.
As someone for whom Poker makes up a considerable amount of my income and Sky Poker made up the majority of my volume while playing regularly, I'm very concerned about the implications of this in terms of being able to make a living from the game going forward - It's totally BS that Sky can threaten to put people's careers in jeopardy just because they don't like me taking +EV spots on other products.
There's also the problem of what constitutes a "promotion" - e.g. Are you going to take my rakeback and claim "C4P is a promotion"? You have "Spin up" tables listed as a promotion, so does that mean you're going to tell me I can't sit at a spin up table lol
Posting this publicly because
1) I know other players (at least one but probs more) have received the same email and want a response, and
2) because I think the practice of removing Poker promotions from someone for winning on other products is deplorable and something that other customers should be aware of happening.
Thanks,
Andy
PS: I haven't played much recently because I retook my A levels and have been prioritising those over Poker. I was gonna increase my volume on here again over the summer, but obviously that's on hold unless I'm playing on a level playing field with everyone else on the site. So a prompt reply would be appreciated so I can either grind here or decide where I'm gonna get £1.3k/month to pay my bills from if it's not here.
We write with reference to the account you hold with Sky Betting & Gaming, User ID: MY USER ID, REMOVED FOR SECURITY
After a recent review by our operations team, it has been decided that this account requires tighter liability management. Unfortunately this means your account will no longer be eligible for any of our Gaming (Sky Vegas, Sky Casino, Sky Poker & Sky Bingo) bonuses or promotions. This restriction also applies to any gaming element of any promotion offered by Sky Bet.
---
@Tikay10 @Sky__James @Sky__Sam et al.
Can you look into this please? I committed the cardinal sin of daring to win money on a Sportsbook, and taking a deposit offer given to me (or six) on Sky Casino with 1x wagering because it was +EV.
If you want to not offer me Vegas/Casino/Bet promos any more, that's fine. Regrettably, poor prices and restricting winners to pennies and removing promotion eligibility is where sports betting is at in 2018 and I don't have any issues with not giving me casino promotions if I'm only interested in playing casino games when I've been given a "Deposit £300 get £150 with 1x wagering" offer where the Maths is obviously hugely in my favour, as has happened in the past.
However, Poker is a game where you take rake from me regardless, and a site is indifferent to who wins - The only thing that removing winning players from Poker promotions will do is reduce liquidity on your Poker site.
Also, I have never abused a promotion in my life - Yes, I've placed bets (e.g. the first race offer on Saturdays) where I'm going to win money in the long run, but I've never done anything that breaks any of the terms of a promotion. Obviously you always have the right to remove Sports/Casino promotions from non-recreational players at any time blahblahblah and that's something I accept.
But to ban me from Poker promotions for "liability management" AKA winning on other products while the people who were deliberately flipping on Spin Up and Capped tables for Vegas packages get a slap on the wrist and told not to do it any more is vile.
It's not just me - I've also spoken to a friend who has received an identical email today, although I'm not going to name them for obvious reasons. Up to them if they wish to post.
As someone for whom Poker makes up a considerable amount of my income and Sky Poker made up the majority of my volume while playing regularly, I'm very concerned about the implications of this in terms of being able to make a living from the game going forward - It's totally BS that Sky can threaten to put people's careers in jeopardy just because they don't like me taking +EV spots on other products.
There's also the problem of what constitutes a "promotion" - e.g. Are you going to take my rakeback and claim "C4P is a promotion"? You have "Spin up" tables listed as a promotion, so does that mean you're going to tell me I can't sit at a spin up table lol
Posting this publicly because
1) I know other players (at least one but probs more) have received the same email and want a response, and
2) because I think the practice of removing Poker promotions from someone for winning on other products is deplorable and something that other customers should be aware of happening.
Thanks,
Andy
PS: I haven't played much recently because I retook my A levels and have been prioritising those over Poker. I was gonna increase my volume on here again over the summer, but obviously that's on hold unless I'm playing on a level playing field with everyone else on the site. So a prompt reply would be appreciated so I can either grind here or decide where I'm gonna get £1.3k/month to pay my bills from if it's not here.
Comments
It hasn’t stopped me opting in on any of the poker promos and some of the sky bet promos though.
However I cannot receive tokens manually added if a for example a forum competition or facebook competition rewards one.
Other than that no effect really
No idea if it means they're taking me out of the hat whenever I enter a ticket draw promo, at least until I win one, which could be never. But that's a minor inconvenience, relatively speaking.
In any case, for Sky to send that e-mail if I'm not excluded from Poker promotions is messed up. Really don't appreciate getting e-mail from Sky saying "Lol your career might be f**ked".
Hi Andy,
Am busy right now but will reply later this evening.
@EvilPingu
Hi Andy,
Sorry for late response, been a long evening.
The Business will not address these matters on the Forum as to a specific individual, it would compromise them in so many regulatory & Compliance areas.
I can't address them as to a specific case either, as I don't have back office access, I can't even ask the question, & if I did, they'd not tell me.
Sam & James are not around this evening, & I'm not sure either of them will be available tomorrow. However, keep an eye on your PM Inbox tomorrow please, & I'll see if I can get someone to communicate with you. Can't promise, but I'm 90% sure I can get someone to deal with it via PM. I'm pretty sure they will NOT address this specific case openly on the Forum though.
More follows......
@EvilPingu
Dealing generally as to matters such as this - & NOT this specific case, or you personally......
In my experience & understanding, it is not usual - not at all usual - for anyone to lose their access to Poker Promos in a case such as this, in fact I don't have personal knowledge of it ever happening.
I will ask the question - generally, not specifically to you - first thing in the morning, but I'd be very surprised if players were to lose access to Poker Promos based upon "Liability Management" in other parts of the Business.
Keep an eye on your PM Inbox tomorrow please.
The e-mail being sent out in that spot definitely needs adjusting if so - Obviously as someone who wins a decent amount at Poker, I'm in a minority, but it's really not fair to give any winning Poker player the stress of being told they're ineligible for Poker promos (which implies zero rakeback) on their preferred site when it's potentially their livelihood at stake.
In the case of recreational Poker players who happen to win £ on sports betting and receive the same e-mail, there's a good chance they won't even bother to find out if they're still eligible for Poker promos and just leave the site, which helps nobody.
@EvilPingu
You have a PM, Andy.
I’ve pretty much exhausted most bookmakers with their promos but I understand they are not here to donate money so I accept my exclusions. To be fair it doesn’t take a lot to to take advantage of the promotions if you do your home work.
If you donate and lose £450 on a luck based game or can’t be arsed to research and lose then I have no sympathy.
I'd like to see a "Lay to lose X" implemented as a license requirement for sports betting. If bookies can't keep their book running below the exchange lay price while running to the overrounds they have, then they deserve to lose money to arbers, matched bettors and sharp punters.
Casino is for mugs unless you can create an edge in some way.
I have also received the same email and been banned from receiving promotions.
I have contacted Sky and they tell me it does not relate to Sky Poker BUT I have still not received 4 recent promotions (2 x £5 bonus and 2 tournament tickets).
I have explained this to them but still not received anything.
I would appreciate it if you could help in any way.
Sorry to hear that. I'll ask Upstairs & see if they have any explanation.
As a matter of unrelated interest, when I see a name in print, I can't help but think how it would be pronounced if we were in "real-life" dialogue. How should your alias be pronounced? 7 consecutive consonants is always a struggle, though we do have one pleasantly rotund player with an even more difficult series of consonants.
Can you be more specific, please, as to what "bonuses" you believe you have not received?
The office have checked your Account, and as far as they can see, you have received everything you are entitled to.
PS - Can we please continue this convo via PM? It's a little awkward discussing this stuff on Forum, and as we saw earlier in the thread, there are always those that jump to the wrong conclusions. For the record, EvilPingu's case was resolved satisfactorily, it was merely (though inexcusably) a comms error which is now being addressed.
I’m going to call them, probably the easiest way to sort this out.
p.s. I guess xfgwdtbosw is pretty unpronounceable. I just generated 10 random letters on Google!
Thanks again.
I'm not allowed to take part in these promos, why am I still being e-mailed these? I'm not super bothered like, but just doesn't make any sense.
I think the only option I have is to opt in or out of all SB&G e-mail marketing. Obvs doesn't help me in this spot where I still want Poker e-mails but no Casino/Vegas/Bingo spam for stuff I can't take part in any more.
Ooooor you could lift Sky Casino restrictions and let me autospin 60 times with £1 stake on red and take that £8.30ish EV but never play anything that is -EV. What's that? No **** chance? Oh, okay I guess that's fair
Would like separate opt in/out for different parts of SB&G where I can just hit an easy-to-find box somewhere.
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On a similar note, I had a far worse spot like this with a different site recently, which I might as well share for the lols because the industry is disgusting sometimes.
Opted out of marketing e-mails on their site since they lay to lose £20 max with me now or max stake £5, whichever is less, but obvs I still have full stakes on all of them lovely -EV slots and casino games. Hadn't logged in there for a while because I cba with sticking £1.43 EW on stuff.
Anyway, to circumvent the opt out of marketing, this site sends a "Having trouble logging in?" email as a reactivation attempt. IMO it's very obvious that's what it is to anyone who reads between the lines, but they use it as a way to get around it falling under "marketing communications", thus being able to send to opted out customers to try to tempt them into thinking "Y'know actually I might have a punt on there", regardless of their contact preferences.
I think their support have 'opted me out of marketing comms' about 3 or 4 times now when I've emailed them back or got onto live chat telling them to go away. They still haven't stopped sending me them. They rather hilariously gave me a £2 free bet as a goodwill gesture in one of these instances lmao.
I'd wager a lot of money that this other bookie are also sending those same emails to problem gamblers who are self-excluded and others opted out of comms for one reason or another, so the ICO and GC got an email the other week.