In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : disagree with this I think it's much closer to a call if we are multi tabling mtts. This spot is too good to miss in a BH imo, and early double up means we have a much better chance of more bounties/putting pressure on ppl later on. If this is the only mtt we are playing and we are not loading any more then ye, fold. Posted by GREGHOGG
I disagree with this. You are basing your thought process on the amount of tables you are playing instead of the info for this tourney why?? You can't base your decisions on anything other than the table in play IMO.
Don your 3 bet is way to big and your flushing chips down the toilet if you get called and the flop has an Ace or King in it. I'm guessing you called the all in by the size of your 3 bet?
I personally would bet smaller, say 190-210. If they shove over the top I'd guess they'd have AK, maybe AQ at worst so I'd call. If they 4 bet like half your stack or something near that I'd fold without hesitation. It's still early in the tourney and will find better spots for sure to pick up bounties and cash which is more important and lucrative.
readless - the faster the structure the more inclined you should be to take this spot versus 10's+AQ+
The fact that your readless makes it impossible to have any idea of range but your probabaly looking at 77+ AJ+ Could be just a crazy loon with 55, 78s )
The most important information is missing, how fast did they shove )
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : I disagree with this. You are basing your thought process on the amount of tables you are playing instead of the info for this tourney why?? You can't base your decisions on anything other than the table in play IMO. Don your 3 bet is way to big and your flushing chips down the toilet if you get called and the flop has an Ace or King in it. I'm guessing you called the all in by the size of your 3 bet? I personally would bet smaller, say 190-210. If they shove over the top I'd guess they'd have AK, maybe AQ at worst so I'd call. If they 4 bet like half your stack or something near that I'd fold without hesitation. It's still early in the tourney and will find better spots for sure to pick up bounties and cash which is more important and lucrative. Posted by mewillows
Im hoping not to sounds disrespectful here mate, seen you play a few times have alot of respect.
Surley we can't worry about someone peeling and an A or K on the flop. Its a £5 tourny, id never 3bet if i was worried about that. lol.
Fwiw i did call, as i said previous tho, i dont care about the result, im not conviced the fold is correct and im not convinced the call is correct either.
Given mattbates responce i guess "it depends" lol.
As i said though, i posted the hand because i genuinely dont know what the right play is. I do feel i have a strong edge in this mtt. Although at the time i didn't factor that into my desision. - leak found.
IMO you should win this about 65% of the time based on what I'd be expecting his range to be, don't think you can turn that down.
Don't think we should pay attention to how many tables we play, if a spot is good, it's good and it doesn't matter if we play 10 tournies per day, or 10 over the space of a week, it'll still even out, it'll just take longer.
is the buy in £11 or under? if yes then yes If no then no Posted by bolly580
why should the buy in effect our desision. I understand lower the players are weaker. but really when it comes to this hand it shouldnt make a differance.
Of course the field affects our decision. Would you make the same play at 4NL that you would make sat with Ivey, Dwan etc etc.
Readless, and especially on Sky with such a small player base, chances are if you're an MTT player (whcih you are) and they are good, you'd know them, if you don't they're probably bad.
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : I disagree with this. You are basing your thought process on the amount of tables you are playing instead of the info for this tourney why?? You can't base your decisions on anything other than the table in play IMO. Don your 3 bet is way to big and your flushing chips down the toilet if you get called and the flop has an Ace or King in it. I'm guessing you called the all in by the size of your 3 bet? I personally would bet smaller, say 190-210. If they shove over the top I'd guess they'd have AK, maybe AQ at worst so I'd call. If they 4 bet like half your stack or something near that I'd fold without hesitation. It's still early in the tourney and will find better spots for sure to pick up bounties and cash which is more important and lucrative. Posted by mewillows
Because if I am 1 tabling because I am skint, I will give it full attention and I want to stay in.
If i have a bankroll and I have several tables, i would rather have a stack as it is much more interesting! If i got knocked out, i can reg another, and another and another, until I win one and make profits
Of course the field affects our decision. Would you make the same play at 4NL that you would make sat with Ivey, Dwan etc etc. Readless, and especially on Sky with such a small player base, chances are if you're an MTT player (whcih you are) and they are good, you'd know them, if you don't they're probably bad. Posted by Lambert180
not quiet the same as the differance between a 5 and 10 quid tourny. also im just returning to sky mtts. i rarely play at this time. all that means i can be against a decent player i dont reconise
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : not quiet the same as the differance between a 5 and 10 quid tourny. also im just returning to sky mtts. i rarely play at this time. all that means i can be against a decent player i dont reconise Posted by The_Don90
somone in a £55 BH propably isnt going to gift away his tourney in the secound level with AJ/88 or whatever however Im sure anyone who's played £5.50Bh is more than aware that people do this with those hands.
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : somone in a £55 BH propably isnt going to gift away his tourney in the secound level with AJ/88 or whatever however Im sure anyone who's played £5.50Bh is more than aware that people do this with those hands. Posted by bolly580
Again we've now went from £5 to £55. Your origional comment was in regards to £11 mtts.
Thats why i asked the differance. The standards of the £11 events ive played are no higher than the £5 events ive played.
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : Again we've now went from £5 to £55. Your origional comment was in regards to £11 mtts. Thats why i asked the differance. The standards of the £11 events ive played are no higher than the £5 events ive played. Posted by The_Don90
That is true, not much difference in standard between £5 and £11 but that's because the average standard in both is terrible.
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : That is true, not much difference in standard between £5 and £11 but that's because the average standard in both is terrible.
Possibly use a better word than terrible? This is low stakes and generally more inexperienced players, who are generally trying to learn, have some fun and make a bit of money as a bonus. Reviewing them as terrible is a bit too demeaning IMO.
Review a £110+ Buy In tourney where the play is generally better and calling bad play terrible is more justified.
FWIW I don't see you bossing tournies so you're sounding hypocritical.
Possibly use a better word than terrible? This is low stakes and generally more inexperienced players, who are generally trying to learn, have some fun and make a bit of money as a bonus. Reviewing them as terrible is a bit too demeaning IMO. Review a £110+ Buy In tourney where the play is generally better and calling bad play terrible is more justified. FWIW I don't see you bossing tournies so you're sounding hypocritical. Posted by mewillows
Hi Jamie,
Maybe the choice of word was a bit harsh, it might be a small distinction but I'm calling the play terrible as appose to the players but yeah maybe could have used a better word. I still stand by the the general sentiment though that play in the £5.50 + £11 BHs is generally pretty bad and that's what would make me lean towards a call here (unless I know the player) because I've seen people make the same play early in a BH with much smaller PPs and loads of Ax hands.
To be fair, I hardly ever play MTTs, had a look on SS the other day and only I've played like 350 in my entire like 3-4 years on the site, a big chunk of them have been SPT sats, and most of the others are from my early days when frankly I was terrible. Introducing more MTTs into my schedule now so hopefully you'll see me do some crushing
Lambrini got told off ) is genralisation a good thing to help us make decisions at the poker table be it a £2 BH or £200 MTT.... Posted by rancid
To a point (and if we're readless), yes imo.
We make assumptions all the time until we gather more information. If you sit at a cash table see someone limp/call after you iso w/ AK then we fire 3 streets on K269T and he just check/calls down, we assume he aint got AA, we have to make certain assumptions but then when he turns over AA, we have to adust them.
Surely?
Anyway, his range really doesn't have to be THAT wide to make us calling +EV
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : To a point (and if we're readless), yes imo. We make assumptions all the time until we gather more information. If you sit at a cash table see someone limp/call after you iso w/ AK then we fire 3 streets on K269T and he just check/calls down, we assume he aint got AA, we have to make certain assumptions but then when he turns over AA, we have to adust them. Surely? Anyway, his range really doesn't have to be THAT wide to make us calling +EV Posted by Lambert180
Just a question )
What's the probabilty that oppo holds a range where we have enough equity to be happy to get chips in middle
I do agree that there's deffo a high probabailty that oppo holds 77+AJ+, but are we happy with enough equity this early
For me it would just come down to the structure of the MTT and how fast it is and because of the fact it's a BH how likely is it that people go a bit loon. More likely to take a thin + equity spot in a fast paced MTT.
Maybe I am wroung but some would say you have 60%, snap it offff!
Comments
The fact that your readless makes it impossible to have any idea of range but your probabaly looking at 77+ AJ+
Could be just a crazy loon with 55, 78s )
The most important information is missing, how fast did they shove )
Don't think we should pay attention to how many tables we play, if a spot is good, it's good and it doesn't matter if we play 10 tournies per day, or 10 over the space of a week, it'll still even out, it'll just take longer.
Readless, and especially on Sky with such a small player base, chances are if you're an MTT player (whcih you are) and they are good, you'd know them, if you don't they're probably bad.
Maybe the choice of word was a bit harsh, it might be a small distinction but I'm calling the play terrible as appose to the players but yeah maybe could have used a better word. I still stand by the the general sentiment though that play in the £5.50 + £11 BHs is generally pretty bad and that's what would make me lean towards a call here (unless I know the player) because I've seen people make the same play early in a BH with much smaller PPs and loads of Ax hands.
To be fair, I hardly ever play MTTs, had a look on SS the other day and only I've played like 350 in my entire like 3-4 years on the site, a big chunk of them have been SPT sats, and most of the others are from my early days when frankly I was terrible. Introducing more MTTs into my schedule now so hopefully you'll see me do some crushing
Paul
is genralisation a good thing to help us make decisions at the poker table be it a £2 BH or £200 MTT....
We make assumptions all the time until we gather more information. If you sit at a cash table see someone limp/call after you iso w/ AK then we fire 3 streets on K269T and he just check/calls down, we assume he aint got AA, we have to make certain assumptions but then when he turns over AA, we have to adust them.
Surely?
Anyway, his range really doesn't have to be THAT wide to make us calling +EV
Now your just being silly !
What's the probabilty that oppo holds a range where we have enough equity to be happy to get chips in middle
I do agree that there's deffo a high probabailty that oppo holds 77+AJ+, but are we happy with enough equity this early
For me it would just come down to the structure of the MTT and how fast it is and because of the fact it's a BH how likely is it that people go a bit loon.
More likely to take a thin + equity spot in a fast paced MTT.
Maybe I am wroung but some would say you have 60%, snap it offff!
drastic example:
WSOP main event - a fold
£5 BH on SKY I snap
£55 bh on Sky - player dependant
£11 rebuy - can't snap quick enough
spot is more than just the cards imo