So, readless we are going to auto assume all players are so appalling that they will get in like 88? AJ? KQ? because its a £5 BH? Ya, keep on showing players no respect too
It's a cold 4 bet shove poeple. If I am going to generalise the player in this tourney they are loose PASSIVE. They CALL too much. So excuse me if I give them perhaps a somewhat tight range when they make an aggressive move in this spot.
A player getting in like 77, AJ, KQ in this spot is the EXCEPTION, not the norm, even in a £5 BH.
The range doesn't have to be that wide to make it +EV, thats true. But even if it's like +100 cEV does that make it worth it in a tournament you have an edge in? You can't reload and stack the weaker players in a tourney.
It is hard to quantify this Colley as (I think) Greg said earlier, some players will double and use it to try to boss the table/tournament, will be in a better position to bully people and so it equates to more than just the +100 cEV... BUT if you're gonna take the double up then just sit back again and just wait for big hands then the value of the double is reduced imo
It's a tiny difference but also about 60% (imo) of the time when we win we also get about 33% of our buy-in back. I'm not a bounty chaser but probably should be mentioned.
I don't insta-assume all players are appalling but from the small experience I have of low stakes BHs people tend to massively over value medium pairs and while they do call too much with some holdings, I've found they are more eager to get it in for a race with PPs and big Ax hands, so I wouldn't be including KQ in his range but certainly AJ+ and 77+ which gives us 63% equity which I think is good enough.
So, readless we are going to auto assume all players are so appalling that they will get in like 88? AJ? KQ? because its a £5 BH? Ya, keep on showing players no respect too It's a cold 4 bet shove poeple. If I am going to generalise the player in this tourney they are loose PASSIVE. They CALL too much. So excuse me if I give them perhaps a somewhat tight right when they make an aggressive move in this spot. A player getting in like 77, AJ, KQ in this spot is the EXCEPTION, not the norm, even in a £5 BH. The range doesn't have to be that wide to make it +EV, thats true. But even if it's like +100 cEV does that make it worth it in a tournament you have an edge in? You can't reload and stack the weaker players in a tourney. Posted by NColley
I don't insta-assume all players are appalling but from the small experience I have of low stakes BHs people tend to massively over value medium pairs and while they do call too much with some holdings, I've found they are more eager to get it in for a race with PPs and big Ax hands, so I wouldn't be including KQ in his range but certainly AJ+ and 77+ which gives us 63% equity which I think is good enough. P.S. Out of interest Donald, what did he have? Posted by Lambert180
Huge difference between someone calling off for their tournament life with 77, and someone cold 4 bet shipping with 77. One action is passive, the other is aggressive.
If the player is an aggromaniac, theres a high likelihood that you will know by level 2, presuming Don hasn't literally just moved to the table.
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : Get off the fence!!!!! Saw your PM this morning. Working on an answer. So far I have, 'Hey'. Unlike Donald in this hand, 'I'll get there' ! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
In higher stake tornys your going to concentrate more and make better decisions withou realising it in lower stack tornys you dont care as much and might make some bad plays
NColley basically sums up my recent thoughts on this hand. Thats not to say what i think at the time.
The one important comment is however is that people dont suddenly cold 4bet at these levels. Although playing the 2pm GTD game i seen it twice with worse, and even one person cold 4bet for 1/4 of their stack and fold. However that isn't the norm.
Lambert from talking sake as your more of a cash player. We go to NL8 - as this is about the same standard in cash terms, We have a UTG open and we 3bet with QQ. Suddenly the player whos new at the table but hasn't done anything out of the ordinary cold 4bet jams. Desision time.
Now i know on the cash table we can reload so even at 51% v his range is a call with dead money. However since its a tournament i think we have to be a bit more picky, expessially when this is basically are life in a tournament we have an edge on, in level 2.
For what its worth i dont think buy in should be effecting our desisions on how good or bad a player is. i personally see that as a mistake. I might be wrong, but even bad players play the £55 mains. Sats make up a decent percentage of the field, then you have people who play 1/2 tournaments a day who work hard and decide to play the mains, who maybe aren't the most experianced players, who just enjoy it. Again i think that will make up a percentage. The sharks will be 10% i rekon.
As for my posts getting long, i have no idea. Must have picked a good hand to post, my other one has 3 responces and one of those was me clarifying something.
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : what some would i need to type in to get the correct answer? and is it suitable to do on a site without timebanks? Posted by The_Don90
do the maffs after the fact when reviewing your play, then just remember the results you get when you play a similar hand'/situation in the future. just because people have timebanks on other sites doesn't mean they all start clicking TIME and breaking out geometric functions and high level algebra........
In Response to Re: Queens facing cold 4b shove level 2 bh. : Kings. the results doesnt matter though. As i said Posted by The_Don90
Funny thing is Don, it does actually matter.
If you called and oppo's shows you AQ.
Would you question your play because you was right and made a good call.
Think it's someting we do as poker players, where we only anaylasis when we think we lost and made a mistake. Don't think we anyaylis enough when we win, we natually assume we made the right play.
I don't think you will actually find any posts in the clinic that say I won but did I play it correctly.
just me thinking aloud...................
edit: funny spin on things but I remember 3 betting QQ and got a caller on the btn (jake cody) in the £220 UKOPS , sb cold 4 bet shoved in the first level. I folded jake cody called with AK. Does that make Cody a genious or dummy ) sb had K5o. To this day I am still not sure, think it was 10,000 starting !! If I called I woulda still lost, Cody hit broadway !!
Comments
It's a tiny difference but also about 60% (imo) of the time when we win we also get about 33% of our buy-in back. I'm not a bounty chaser but probably should be mentioned.
I don't insta-assume all players are appalling but from the small experience I have of low stakes BHs people tend to massively over value medium pairs and while they do call too much with some holdings, I've found they are more eager to get it in for a race with PPs and big Ax hands, so I wouldn't be including KQ in his range but certainly AJ+ and 77+ which gives us 63% equity which I think is good enough.
P.S. Out of interest Donald, what did he have?
fold or call - neither wil be ever bad - cmon where's the thrill in folding !!
@Don
"i such at maff "
& spelling -
fence !
ok
1 beer = fold
4 beers = call
pokers an ez game )
fold and be happy about it
Don can you just reveal now please, gagging for the answer )
It'll be 49o now and it won
If you called and oppo's shows you AQ.
Would you question your play because you was right and made a good call.
Think it's someting we do as poker players, where we only anaylasis when we think we lost and made a mistake.
Don't think we anyaylis enough when we win, we natually assume we made the right play.
I don't think you will actually find any posts in the clinic that say I won but did I play it correctly.
just me thinking aloud...................
edit:
funny spin on things but I remember 3 betting QQ and got a caller on the btn (jake cody) in the £220 UKOPS , sb cold 4 bet shoved in the first level. I folded jake cody called with AK. Does that make Cody a genious or dummy ) sb had K5o.
To this day I am still not sure, think it was 10,000 starting !! If I called I woulda still lost, Cody hit broadway !!
This hand always sticks in my mind, I know...
cool story bro !! )