I'd say they were small to medium loser most of the time.
Big losers don't know, or don't care. It's only those that don't think that their SS is a fair reflection of their ability, that'll want it blocked. I.e., the small losers.
That, or rarely a medium winner? Those that think people SS you is a big deal and gives away a lot of information. When in fact, it doesn't. AT ALL. Solid thread though, although surprised at the results.
If i'm playing a fast paced husng scope can be incredibly useful for backing up initial reads about a player when there isn't alot of time to properly form an accurate idea of the level the player is on , i.e if player x makes a couple of really interesting hero call the fact he is -3k or +3k will allow me to form a solid view of what level he may be thinking on and how i have to adapt to that i.e if he is liekly to be a very good player making these calls based on thinking on a higher level or is just a station, obviously its not a 100% but from experience i can definetly say it has helped me.
In Response to Re: Blocked Sharkscope Stats : Maybe cos someone at the table says 'haha, look how bad your sharkscope is...' etc. Sorry, just playing devil's advocate Posted by Lambert180
At this stage I have almost nothing further to add, other than quote Lambert from the other day, and also my reply, to which as far as I know Lambert has not commented on any of the points raised.
I would just like to comment on a Smitalos comment. "Those that think people SS you is a big deal and gives away a lot of information. When in fact, it doesn't. AT ALL"
So, would you rather play 100 heads up games against the player that has lost £15,000 playing heads up or won £15,000 heads up? say for arguments sake, same sample size and same buy ins.
Lambert posted at 29/7/2013 12:38 AM BST on SkyPoker.com
"Yeah I don't understand blocking your stats at all either. There's very little anyone can take from a sharkscope graph... they can go 'oh look he's made quite a bit of profit, he's probably good'.
1) It is probably because having winning MTT results isn't always a result of being a good player
2) They know you're good, but good how? Are you 'good' cos you're a nit that just sits there waiting for the nuts, or because you are loose aggro and have a very good postflop game or lots of other permutations.
Look at some of the top players on Sky... TommyD, MattBates, etc. they don't seem to be being held back by the fact people can see their stats "
Calcalfold posted at 29/7/2013 12:50 AM BST on SkyPoker.com
"There are lots of stats available to check.
What games they specialise in, what stakes they usually play, how successful they are, how many games they have lost in a row, are they losing lots and moving up in buy ins. All that is information that can help to draw a picture of that player.
We can take a lot from that.
Do they understand heads up concepts? Are they on tilt? Are they likely to have understanding of poker related maths?
To name but a few
The biggest tool of Sharkscope, is to avoid winning players. You can look though the heads up games ready to go, and just avoid winning players. Now, tell me that isnt something a good heads up SNG player would want to hide....
As poker is a game of incomplete information, and applying the information you have more successfully than the information villain has, it makes perfect sense to withold any information you can.
With regards your comment about specific players, whom for the record I have not heard of.
That point you have made holds no basis for conculsions, they may win more, less or the same if they were to hide their data. But as we are unable to prove or disprove such a theory, drawing the conclusion that keeping their stats in the public realm has no impact on their results is not scientifically sound."
In Response to Re: Blocked Sharkscope Stats : Read my post, the answer is in there. As Im sure you have seen. Posted by calcalfold
Just looking for clarification that you haven't heard of TommyD or Mattbates. I know they don't drop in at 4nl very often/ever but to have not heard of them? Surprising.
In Response to Re: Blocked Sharkscope Stats : Just looking for clarification that you haven't heard of TommyD or Mattbates. I know they don't drop in at 4nl very often/ever but to have not heard of them? Surprising. Posted by hhyftrftdr
Sigh, forgot to reply to you. FWIW, this thread was/is not intended to be 'lets bash CCF cos he blocks his stats', I just didn't know whether people generally see it as a bad player hiding bad results or a good player hiding how good they are.
But to answer your reply (from that other thread)....
1) Please tell me how we can determine if they understand HU concepts from a SS graph. What does winning/losing streak tell you? That they're playing a game that involves some form of variance...
Not to mention that probably 99% of players aren't members so can only filter between MTTs or SnGs so would have no idea as to whether your sick SnG ROI was earned at DYMs or HU SnGs or a combination of the two. They'd also have no idea as to your game preference or any of the other things mentioned, but fair enough that still leaves probably 1% of people that could find out bits and bobs like that.
2) How on earth can we make any kinda of assumption about their ability to perform poker related maths?
3) Think of it this way.... if you're a good player with a great sharkscope, a good player will scope you and avoid you because their edge will be minimal if they have any at all (that's good for us).... However if you block your stats that same good player probably goes 'ahh another fish with a terrible SS that he's blocked, I'll play him'. So in actual fact you're doing the reverse of what you suggest by avoiding good players.
i would maybe lean towards bad player but honestly it could be any of them. i haven't sharkscoped anyone i've played against and have only recently started to sharkscope myself on sky. i started playing the game to have a bit of fun and never paid much attention to money that i lost. sharkscope has maybybe made some players realise what they have lost and maybe this is why they have blocked stats, personally i mainly concentrate on trying to improve my own game not how good or bad my opponents game is
Long term winning HU players will have a better idea of HU concepts than long term losing players. Not really sure how you can debate that lol. Please clarify what exactly in the above statement you disagree with.
Granted if the sample size is 5 games we can disregard it, but on a sample size over 300 say, its pretty solid basis for interpretation of ability.
Im not a member, but in my 5 daily searches can see a fairly long list of the recent games they have played, which includes number of players.
Well agreed yes, longterm winning HU players are probably good at HU lol. My point being if you're not a HU SnG grinder that will be pertty useless information and if you are a HU SnG grinder on Sky, then you will/should already know who else is. It doesn't take too long to realise which guys are regging up and 2-3 tabling HU games for long periods of time compared to those who jump into 1 game you've already regged then you don't see them again for a week. Then obviously playing them you should very quickly be able to pick up if they understand HU concepts or not but really it all comes down to my 3rd point.
If we keep it open....
Player A is bad, so will play you regardless of your SS cos they probably don't even know what SS is, and even if they do, they almost certainly won't be SS'ing all their opponents Good we can still play bad players
Player B is good, sees our good SS and decides he probably his little to no edge and doesn't play us. Good we avoid good players. If we hide them...
Player A is bad, and still plays us cos again he hasn't bothered looking at SS etc Good we can still play bad players
Player B is good, sees we've blocked our SS and most likely thinks (rightly or wrongly) 'this guy is probably a fish so I'll play him' which is bad for us, cos no matter how good we are, our edge won't be that big against another good reg in a HU SnG with 5% rake. Even if they do think blocked = good, and avoid you, they'd have definitely avoided you if they'd seen how good your stats were. Bad cos we might end up playing more good regs that we'd like to.
So for a really good player, it's probably -EV.... it's probably only good sometimes for bad players, hence why people assume blocked stat players are bad
Likewise, I know loads of DYM grinders that will skope opponents before regging for the DYM and if there are too many good winning players, they won't play (which is good for the already regged winning player). Game selection innit
If you're using SS to "game-select", then isn't that essentially the same as bumhunting?
Using sharkscope as any serious barometer for HOW someone plays, is a little silly imo. You should be reacting to the way people play constantly. Whether someone is a winner/loser tells you far less than just watching how they play for a few orbits. Not only that, but seeing that someone has their stats blocked entirely, can tell you far more than your average steady downswing (or upswing) graph. All just imo ofc.
Comments
Big losers don't know, or don't care. It's only those that don't think that their SS is a fair reflection of their ability, that'll want it blocked. I.e., the small losers.
That, or rarely a medium winner? Those that think people SS you is a big deal and gives away a lot of information. When in fact, it doesn't. AT ALL.
Solid thread though, although surprised at the results.
I would just like to comment on a Smitalos comment. "Those that think people SS you is a big deal and gives away a lot of information. When in fact, it doesn't. AT ALL"
So, would you rather play 100 heads up games against the player that has lost £15,000 playing heads up or won £15,000 heads up? say for arguments sake, same sample size and same buy ins.
Lambert posted at 29/7/2013 12:38 AM BST on SkyPoker.com
"Yeah I don't understand blocking your stats at all either. There's very little anyone can take from a sharkscope graph... they can go 'oh look he's made quite a bit of profit, he's probably good'.
1) It is probably because having winning MTT results isn't always a result of being a good player
2) They know you're good, but good how? Are you 'good' cos you're a nit that just sits there waiting for the nuts, or because you are loose aggro and have a very good postflop game or lots of other permutations.
Look at some of the top players on Sky... TommyD, MattBates, etc. they don't seem to be being held back by the fact people can see their stats "
Calcalfold posted at 29/7/2013 12:50 AM BST on SkyPoker.com
"There are lots of stats available to check.
What games they specialise in, what stakes they usually play, how successful they are, how many games they have lost in a row, are they losing lots and moving up in buy ins. All that is information that can help to draw a picture of that player.
We can take a lot from that.
Do they understand heads up concepts?
Are they on tilt?
Are they likely to have understanding of poker related maths?
To name but a few
The biggest tool of Sharkscope, is to avoid winning players. You can look though the heads up games ready to go, and just avoid winning players. Now, tell me that isnt something a good heads up SNG player would want to hide....
As poker is a game of incomplete information, and applying the information you have more successfully than the information villain has, it makes perfect sense to withold any information you can.
With regards your comment about specific players, whom for the record I have not heard of.
That point you have made holds no basis for conculsions, they may win more, less or the same if they were to hide their data. But as we are unable to prove or disprove such a theory, drawing the conclusion that keeping their stats in the public realm has no impact on their results is not scientifically sound."
====================================================================
But to answer your reply (from that other thread)....
1) Please tell me how we can determine if they understand HU concepts from a SS graph. What does winning/losing streak tell you? That they're playing a game that involves some form of variance...
Not to mention that probably 99% of players aren't members so can only filter between MTTs or SnGs so would have no idea as to whether your sick SnG ROI was earned at DYMs or HU SnGs or a combination of the two. They'd also have no idea as to your game preference or any of the other things mentioned, but fair enough that still leaves probably 1% of people that could find out bits and bobs like that.
2) How on earth can we make any kinda of assumption about their ability to perform poker related maths?
3) Think of it this way.... if you're a good player with a great sharkscope, a good player will scope you and avoid you because their edge will be minimal if they have any at all (that's good for us).... However if you block your stats that same good player probably goes 'ahh another fish with a terrible SS that he's blocked, I'll play him'. So in actual fact you're doing the reverse of what you suggest by avoiding good players.
Long term winning HU players will have a better idea of HU concepts than long term losing players. Not really sure how you can debate that lol. Please clarify what exactly in the above statement you disagree with.
Granted if the sample size is 5 games we can disregard it, but on a sample size over 300 say, its pretty solid basis for interpretation of ability.
Im not a member, but in my 5 daily searches can see a fairly long list of the recent games they have played, which includes number of players.
2)
As above.
3)
Point understood, but firmly disagree.
If we keep it open....
Player A is bad, so will play you regardless of your SS cos they probably don't even know what SS is, and even if they do, they almost certainly won't be SS'ing all their opponents
Good we can still play bad players
Player B is good, sees our good SS and decides he probably his little to no edge and doesn't play us.
Good we avoid good players.
If we hide them...
Player A is bad, and still plays us cos again he hasn't bothered looking at SS etc
Good we can still play bad players
Player B is good, sees we've blocked our SS and most likely thinks (rightly or wrongly) 'this guy is probably a fish so I'll play him' which is bad for us, cos no matter how good we are, our edge won't be that big against another good reg in a HU SnG with 5% rake. Even if they do think blocked = good, and avoid you, they'd have definitely avoided you if they'd seen how good your stats were.
Bad cos we might end up playing more good regs that we'd like to.
So for a really good player, it's probably -EV.... it's probably only good sometimes for bad players, hence why people assume blocked stat players are bad
Likewise, I know loads of DYM grinders that will skope opponents before regging for the DYM and if there are too many good winning players, they won't play (which is good for the already regged winning player). Game selection innit
If you're using SS to "game-select", then isn't that essentially the same as bumhunting?
Using sharkscope as any serious barometer for HOW someone plays, is a little silly imo.
You should be reacting to the way people play constantly. Whether someone is a winner/loser tells you far less than just watching how they play for a few orbits. Not only that, but seeing that someone has their stats blocked entirely, can tell you far more than your average steady downswing (or upswing) graph. All just imo ofc.
I was expecting at least a witty answer.
No, nothing.........
Huh, guess I am correct by default, which makes you incorrect, Alas I am sure your ego will not accept that.