Hi Chick, I shared a table with you for quite a while in the main on fri nite. I noticed a few times you seemed to run out of time when it was your turn to act. It might have been a deliberate ploy? Possibly playing too many tables? NOT a criticism BTW, just thought I'd mention it. Enjoying the read & gl. Posted by Glenelg
yes, your right, that was less to do with the number of tables and more to do witht he sw crashing to be honest. althought the number of tables didnt help. I can normally cope with 9-12 without sitting out much.
a typical crash situation would be software slows down and my actions are delayed, sometimes not acting in time (so I might click call with 10 seconds remaining and the call wouldnt be actioned in time and I would sit out) after a bit of this, I would bet a connection error (the on where you can click reconnect). after a few attempts at reconnecting, the sw would either reconnect properly or hang completely. after a hang it was generally 2-3 minutes before the sw was restarted, all the tables had reappeared again, the tables had been put back in their places and I was sat back in! a painful experience when it happens 10 times a night or more!
In Response to Re: Can a chicken turn pro? : yes, your right, that was less to do with the number of tables and more to do witht he sw crashing to be honest. Posted by chicknMelt
ok, did wonder if it mite have been sw related. gl
oh so the £344 is you equity in 1st place?? yea im probs jus confused by the way its been written.. i obv dont know stack sizes or payout structure (which would be hard to work out ICM, given that you could only knock 1 player out HU but do not get any other bounties)
with stack sizes im open jamming knowing they shouldnt be folding the lower pairs- a chunk of Ax where were 70/30 and obvs the usual flips - id want to fold out all the other flips so im a head of the range
feel more focussed today - lets hope its reflected in the results - they have been pretty bad in November so far!
started off pretty decent - won a flip or 2 which was nice.
8pm - time for the primo... erm, I massively tilted myself with my primo performance. it was pretty horrible… I'm not sure I even lasted the first level. - I was 4th out i think! how embarassing! :-l
my first + of the night was qualifying for the £240 UKPC seat again, but this time the cash went into my account because I already had a seat at the time of writing this I can't lose more than £100ish today…which takes the pressure off a bit.
by 9pm i was just paying 6 tables - it makes a huge difference! the amount of spots i was missing was just too much yesterday. for example, I 4bet light today because an agro player 3bet a loose opener and a loose passive caller when he was on the button… he was obv squeezing and I would have missed that last night.
I came agonisingly close to a seat in the £1100 UKPC, finishing 13th when 9 got a seat. I was sitting pretty until when a turned set got beat by a rivered straight, then I fell into tommy D's trap, shoving my last 10bb into his QQ in the blinds. I'm pretty certain I shouldn't have shoved then, but he played it well setting the trap when he knew I was probably tilted and I walked right into it.
I finished around £150 up tonight after a 2nd place in the £22 deepstack, winning the cash for a seat in the UKPC sat final, and a nice cash in the £22 timed. reasonably happy with tonight, but it could have been better - a lapse in concentration/tilt cost me a decent chance at the UKPC seat. cashes in "the big ones" - the main, big BH and speed BH - also are still avoiding me.
mean while, on the other site I started off by playing some $15 and $7 SNGs, and won more than my fair share. I can only remember being unhappy with my play once or twice, which is good, but I didn't play many because I was around my table limit from sky games a lot of the time after about 7. I did notice though that at the $15 SNGs probably at least half of the players on each table seem to be regs, and only 1, or 2 fish if your lucky… I seem to have been running well in them so far though, so lets hope it continues and its not just the good side of variance! I'm sure most of the regs have alot better SNG stragegies than I do...
thanks to the SNGs I finished about $30 up, bringing my BR to $346.55. Well on my way to the $500 goal, so instead of by the new year, I want to meet it by the end of the month.
oh so the £344 is you equity in 1st place?? yea im probs jus confused by the way its been written.. i obv dont know stack sizes or payout structure (which would be hard to work out ICM, given that you could only knock 1 player out HU but do not get any other bounties) with stack sizes im open jamming knowing they shouldnt be folding the lower pairs- a chunk of Ax where were 70/30 and obvs the usual flips - id want to fold out all the other flips so im a head of the range Posted by LnarinOO
£344 is my tournament equity according to ICM if I won the all in, 1st place was more than that.
yeah, I think especially because it was a bubble situation i should have open shoved. do you think its an open shove in normal play too?
yea im not that greatest tourney player but i open jam a certain range with your stack size - 10's fall int to this for me..
your jus workin out your equity in the hand vs the villans range- (it is a call BTW)
when your working out your ICM you need to know
our current stack size
everyone else stack size
amount of money in prizepool for 1st then 2nd then 3rd and so on (more difficult as you dont know how many bounties you may get..
then you can figure out how much your stack sizes means (in ICM terms), how much of the prizepool is yours against the given range- and whether the probabilty you will win vs the equity you have is enough to show profit.
theres no point doing ICM vs one person to find out whether you should call or not beacuse it takes away the whole point of working out your chip value in the tourney- this is because on average you may be in a better position to win 3rd place money or 2nd place money etc - this is what ICM tells us...
yea im not that greatest tourney player but i open jam a certain range with your stack size - 10's fall int to this for me.. your jus workin out your equity in the hand vs the villans range- (it is a call BTW) when your working out your ICM you need to know our current stack size everyone else stack size amount of money in prizepool for 1st then 2nd then 3rd and so on (more difficult as you dont know how many bounties you may get.. then you can figure out how much your stack sizes means (in ICM terms), how much of the prizepool is yours against the given range- and whether the probabilty you will win vs the equity you have is enough to show profit. theres no point doing ICM vs one person to find out whether you should call or not beacuse it takes away the whole point of working out your chip value in the tourney- this is because on average you may be in a better position to win 3rd place money or 2nd place money etc - this is what ICM tells us... Posted by LnarinOO
I think we are both saying the same thing - I just dont seem to be very good at telling you lol
I did put everyones stacks into an ICM calculator as well as the prizes - it only gives an indication because as you say the prizes had to be guessed, and tbh I guessed the chip stacks too. think they were roughly right though.
I came agonisingly close to a seat in the £1100 UKPC, finishing 13th when 9 got a seat. I was sitting pretty until when a turned set got beat by a rivered straight, then I fell into tommy D's trap, shoving my last 10bb into his QQ in the blinds. I'm pretty certain I shouldn't have shoved then, but he played it well setting the trap when he knew I was probably tilted and I walked right into it.Posted by chicknMelt
Very unlucky in the Sat Melt. Yes you've already guessed it but I played my part in that (opening from 10bb B On B rather than just shoving) purely on the basis of that previous brutal hand for you. Sorry to be ruthless but after I HHed the holdings from that hand I thought you wouldn't need much encouragement to shove the very next hand (because I know if I was in your seat I would be looking to do the same in that moment after that beat).
Very good diary by the way and I'm sure you'll bink a seat for the UKPC very soon.
In Response to Re: Can a chicken turn pro? : Very unlucky in the Sat Melt. Yes you've already guessed it but I played my part in that (opening from 10bb B On B rather than just shoving) purely on the basis of that previous brutal hand for you. Sorry to be ruthless but after I HHed the holdings from that hand I thought you wouldn't need much encouragement to shove the very next hand (because I know if I was in your seat I would be looking to do the same in that moment after that beat). Very good diary by the way and I'm sure you'll bink a seat for the UKPC very soon. Posted by TommyD
I wouldn't expect anything else from you Tommy! If I had the brains and thought of it too I would have done exactly the same to you.
Yeah i think even as I was clicking the all in button I was already thinkin "what am I doing?!" well played for taking the time to notice - I thought you might have and gave you credit for it - can't imagine you opening/folding from 10bb ever really. which I suppose makes my shove even worse.
at the time, after the beat with the set, I was pretty pleased with myself for managing to "just call" on the river thinking "I'm almost certainly ahead, but just incase i'm not I'll just call because the amount of chips I would have should be enough to see me through comfortably, and if I'm wrong I still have 10bb" to go from that level of thinking to a brainless shove the very next hand just goes to show there is still some work to do in the tilt department!
I look forward to getting my own back sometime very soon
A question to everyone - what would you need to turn pro?
my thoughts are
-6 months salary as a buffer
-be able to earn more from poker than your job ( so that you are able to grow your BR as well a pay your bills)
-a passion for the game
-a sufficient bankroll to easily handle the varience of the games your playing - eg, 200BI+ for MTTs etc.
For those of you that have asked, I havent given up my job, but its an ambition of mine to live off poker, which I have been trialing for a few months with some success. I realised that I would probably have to put in some more volume and be able to win consistently on other sites since the volume isn't that great on sky during off peak times... hence my diary.
I have already considered alot of peoples concerns with going pro - inconsistency of income, stress trying to grind a living, falling out of love with the game once its your job.
inconsistency of income: my plan was to pay myself a set amount a month, and if I won more in the month the rest goes first to replenishing the buffer (if I havent earnt enough to pay myself a full salary in previous months), then 50% of the rest into the BR, and the rest split between savings and investments.
stress trying to grind a living: like I say, I have been treating the last few months as a trial. it has been stressful " can I make it as a pro/ can't I make it as a pro" and at many points during the last few months I've thought it would be both easy, and impossible lol. Buuut, I'm probably one of the most laid back people going, so stress shouldnt effect me too much.
falling out of love with the game: yeah I can see how this happens to some people, and there have been times when I really didnt fancy playing during the last few months. normally that feeling is replaced with eagerness to play within a day or 2. certainly no more than a week.
on the plus side, going pro would give me more time to spend with my family, and more time to learn/play... oh and I can lie in when I want!
I dont plan on making any rash decisions in the next month or 2 - so dont worry about me jumping ship just yet... but it would be interesting to get peoples feedback, especially from those that are already pro... Tommy, Lambert, Scotty etc... when did you turn pro? what did evidence did you have? how much of a roll did you have? have there been any close calls? do you regret going pro?
...Ive also noticed that alot of the top pro's go pro because it's the only logical next step - after winning the WSOP main event for example... so maybe I'm still too small to be thinking about being pro and should wait until (if it ever happens) I get a big score that will pretty much set me up for years before I think about it (£100k+)
Do you play cash at all? Maybe it's just cos I'm mainly a cash player but I think playing MTTs for a living would be reaalllly hard. As you say, it's just less consistent. A month's worth of MEs (assuming you don't sat in) is gonna be like £1k+ and that's only 30 MTTs... you could easily go 100 MTTs without getting 1 good cash so £3k+ just in MEs.
Definitely think you'd need to play loads on other sites cos you just can't get even close to the volume needed for MTTs purely from Sky. Even though he doesn't play for a living (as far as I know), would be a good idea to get MattBates to post up about this cos he never plays cash, just MTTs, and I remember him posting a reply to someone about volume and hourly rates in comparison to your ROI... i.e. finding the sweet spot in terms of number of tables where your hourly rate is maxed out.
I remember speaking to Dan Carter at the SPT Grand Final who grinds MTTs for a living, I think mostly on stars and FTP, and he was saying how he mostly plays daytime schedules these days. He said he misses out on the $109s at night but because they're so much tougher and ROIs are lower, his actual winrate in terms of $$$ is probably just as good in a daytime $30 freezeout cos weak players are much happier to just flick in $30 than they are $109. Went a bit off topic there. Sigh my posts always get so long so I'll stop now!
Do you play cash at all? Maybe it's just cos I'm mainly a cash player but I think playing MTTs for a living would be reaalllly hard. As you say, it's just less consistent. A month's worth of MEs (assuming you don't sat in) is gonna be like £1k+ and that's only 30 MTTs... you could easily go 100 MTTs without getting 1 good cash so £3k+ just in MEs. Definitely think you'd need to play loads on other sites cos you just can't get even close to the volume needed for MTTs purely from Sky. Even though he doesn't play for a living (as far as I know), would be a good idea to get MattBates to post up about this cos he never plays cash, just MTTs, and I remember him posting a reply to someone about volume and hourly rates in comparison to your ROI... i.e. finding the sweet spot in terms of number of tables where your hourly rate is maxed out. I remember speaking to Dan Carter at the SPT Grand Final who grinds MTTs for a living, I think mostly on stars and FTP, and he was saying how he mostly plays daytime schedules these days. He said he misses out on the $109s at night but because they're so much tougher and ROIs are lower, his actual winrate in terms of $$$ is probably just as good in a daytime $30 freezeout cos weak players are much happier to just flick in $30 than they are $109. Went a bit off topic there. Sigh my posts always get so long so I'll stop now! Posted by Lambert180
live cash only as a general rule... online I'm too impatient and since there are no rules in my head about play with certain stack sizes etc etc i tend to spew my money in online cash. I have been dabbling in HU cash though but struggle to get any action on sky anymore for the levels I want to play (NL50). Its not like I've even won alot at NL50, I guess I'm too nitty for the bumhunters or something. you can occasionally see me on one of the 6max tables too for 15 mins or until i have donked off a BI or 2.
well, Im not sure MTTs are so different to cash when you play on sky - most of the tourneys are BHs, or rebuy/deepstacks, with small fields... so varience isnt too much of a killer. for example, my worst downswing so far is aroun 80 BIs...not too dissimilar to your worst downswing (im assuming the downswing you have just come out of was your worst!). on other sites tho, for sure MTTs are tough with varience. I cant even begin to fathom how many BI's I would need to play MTTs on stars for example. hence the SNGs i have been trying over there.
A question to everyone - what would you need to turn pro? my thoughts are -6 months salary as a buffer -be able to earn more from poker than your job ( so that you are able to grow your BR as well a pay your bills) -a passion for the game -a sufficient bankroll to easily handle the varience of the games your playing - eg, 200BI+ for MTTs etc. For those of you that have asked, I havent given up my job, but its an ambition of mine to live off poker, which I have been trialing for a few months with some success. I realised that I would probably have to put in some more volume and be able to win consistently on other sites since the volume isn't that great on sky during off peak times... hence my diary. I have already considered alot of peoples concerns with going pro - inconsistency of income, stress trying to grind a living, falling out of love with the game once its your job. inconsistency of income: my plan was to pay myself a set amount a month, and if I won more in the month the rest goes first to replenishing the buffer (if I havent earnt enough to pay myself a full salary in previous months), then 50% of the rest into the BR, and the rest split between savings and investments. stress trying to grind a living: like I say, I have been treating the last few months as a trial. it has been stressful " can I make it as a pro/ can't I make it as a pro" and at many points during the last few months I've thought it would be both easy, and impossible lol. Buuut, I'm probably one of the most laid back people going, so stress shouldnt effect me too much. falling out of love with the game: yeah I can see how this happens to some people, and there have been times when I really didnt fancy playing during the last few months. normally that feeling is replaced with eagerness to play within a day or 2. certainly no more than a week. on the plus side, going pro would give me more time to spend with my family, and more time to learn/play... oh and I can lie in when I want! I dont plan on making any rash decisions in the next month or 2 - so dont worry about me jumping ship just yet... but it would be interesting to get peoples feedback, especially from those that are already pro... Tommy, Lambert, Scotty etc... when did you turn pro? what did evidence did you have? how much of a roll did you have? have there been any close calls? do you regret going pro? ...Ive also noticed that alot of the top pro's go pro because it's the only logical next step - after winning the WSOP main event for example... so maybe I'm still too small to be thinking about being pro and should wait until (if it ever happens) I get a big score that will pretty much set me up for years before I think about it (£100k+) Posted by chicknMelt
I would add to your list where you want to be in 5 years time, in life as well as in poker. If you are going to be the next big poker phenominen, then you will earn enough not to worry about things like buying houses/cars, getting married, bringing up children etc etc.
But if you are like most poker grinders and earn a living wage, but not much more then all those things should come into you're considerations before you ditch your career. It also depends where you live, in London you would have to be winning much more than some parts of the North just to survive! Getting a mortgage when your profession is "poker pro" is nearly impossible as far as I am aware.
Good luck though, your MTT results are very impressive.
Just don't quit your job, keep poker as something you love that provides some extra income. Can you imagine when variance actually catches up with you and you've walked away from a guaranteed income? It will hurt so much more. Posted by pryce6
the only reason I am considering it is because I really do think that given the extra time and effort I could put into it my earning potential is far greater than if I stayed in my job... and I have ways of dealing with the varience. the 6 month buffer system, so in theory, I shouldnt notice any downswings financially until I havent won anything for 6 months. its possible obviously, but if that started to happen, by the time it got to month 4 or 5 I should be able to find another job again before the money ran out. This yr (not just from Sky) I have earnt more than i get paid playing just part time(if you can call what I do part time), so you can see the temptation?
also, coaching could provide a more regular income, and it something I have experience in (although not from poker). It would be something I'm interested in doing in the future.
In Response to Re: Can a chicken turn pro? : I would add to your list where you want to be in 5 years time, in life as well as in poker. If you are going to be the next big poker phenominen, then you will earn enough not to worry about things like buying houses/cars, getting married, bringing up children etc etc. But if you are like most poker grinders and earn a living wage, but not much more then all those things should come into you're considerations before you ditch your career. It also depends where you live, in London you would have to be winning much more than some parts of the North just to survive! Getting a mortgage when your profession is "poker pro" is nearly impossible as far as I am aware. Good luck though, your MTT results are very impressive. Posted by ACEGOONER
thanks for the thoughts ACE... where I want to be and where I aqctually am are likely to be far apart... but aiming high means you should at least achieve a medium right??
already have a mortgage...they cant take it back can they lol?!
In Response to Re: Can a chicken turn pro? : thanks for the thoughts ACE... where I want to be and where I aqctually am are likely to be far apart... but aiming high means you should at least achieve a medium right?? already have a mortgage...they cant take it back can they lol?! Posted by chicknMelt
If you have a mortgage you need to factor it into your considerations with budgeting etc.
I don't want to derail the purpose of the thread but if you are on a fixed rate and want to remortgage at the end of the fixed rate period, you will struggle to get another fixed rate once you disclose your new profession. It may even cause issues with your existing lender. Most lenders dont care how good you are at poker. If you are on a variable rate, remember there is only one way interest rates can go thats up.
Feel free to drop me a PM if you want me to go into more detail. Of course win enough to pay your mortgage off in a few years and you got it cracked from a housing perspective!
In Response to Re: Can a chicken turn pro? : If you have a mortgage you need to factor it into your considerations with budgeting etc. I don't want to derail the purpose of the thread but if you are on a fixed rate and want to remortgage at the end of the fixed rate period, you will struggle to get another fixed rate once you disclose your new profession. It may even cause issues with your existing lender. Most lenders dont care how good you are at poker. If you are on a variable rate, remember there is only one way interest rates can go thats up. Feel free to drop me a PM if you want me to go into more detail. Of course win enough to pay your mortgage off in a few years and you got it cracked from a housing perspective! Posted by ACEGOONER
very soon my mortgage will be a variable mortgage with no initial rate... so I wont ever have to remortgage if I dont want to. Interest rates can only really go up, but I'm hoping they stay stable for a year or 2 unitl I have found my feet at least.
Not really derailing the thread - its relevant to becoming a pro
The thinig I have been most concerned about is if my creent lender would do anything if I was to change my profession to poker player. ...of course I can always do some IT stuff on the side and say that is my profession... but does any of it really atter once you have the mortgage? surely the bank only cares if they arent getting their money any more?
In Response to Re: Can a chicken turn pro? : very soon my mortgage will be a variable mortgage with no initial rate... so I wont ever have to remortgage if I dont want to. Interest rates can only really go up, but I'm hoping they stay stable for a year or 2 unitl I have found my feet at least. Not really derailing the thread - its relevant to becoming a pro The thinig I have been most concerned about is if my creent lender would do anything if I was to change my profession to poker player. ...of course I can always do some IT stuff on the side and say that is my profession... but does any of it really atter once you have the mortgage? surely the bank only cares if they arent getting their money any more? Posted by chicknMelt
This is only an indication as I dont know who your lender is, but I dont think they would be very comfortable with your new profession. I would guess that a mortgage underwriter would see you as a professional gambler and therefore very high risk.
Your income from poker coaching/IT freelancing would have to be documented, this may be something that they could use once you have an earnings track record. I would also have thought that if you are disclosing this income it would be taxable.
Speak with a mortgage broker about this. Just having a mortgage shows how complex things can become when you decide poker is going to be your occupation.
Comments
Very good diary by the way and I'm sure you'll bink a seat for the UKPC very soon.
Definitely think you'd need to play loads on other sites cos you just can't get even close to the volume needed for MTTs purely from Sky. Even though he doesn't play for a living (as far as I know), would be a good idea to get MattBates to post up about this cos he never plays cash, just MTTs, and I remember him posting a reply to someone about volume and hourly rates in comparison to your ROI... i.e. finding the sweet spot in terms of number of tables where your hourly rate is maxed out.
I remember speaking to Dan Carter at the SPT Grand Final who grinds MTTs for a living, I think mostly on stars and FTP, and he was saying how he mostly plays daytime schedules these days. He said he misses out on the $109s at night but because they're so much tougher and ROIs are lower, his actual winrate in terms of $$$ is probably just as good in a daytime $30 freezeout cos weak players are much happier to just flick in $30 than they are $109. Went a bit off topic there. Sigh my posts always get so long so I'll stop now!
the only reason I am considering it is because I really do think that given the extra time and effort I could put into it my earning potential is far greater than if I stayed in my job... and I have ways of dealing with the varience. the 6 month buffer system, so in theory, I shouldnt notice any downswings financially until I havent won anything for 6 months. its possible obviously, but if that started to happen, by the time it got to month 4 or 5 I should be able to find another job again before the money ran out. This yr (not just from Sky) I have earnt more than i get paid playing just part time(if you can call what I do part time), so you can see the temptation?