He nearly cheated someone of £1500 and at the very minimum £300. In the "real" world there would be a lot more serious consequences than a 6 month ban. If someone tried to take £300 from your sky account and nearly got away with it - how would you feel seeing him again in 6 months time on the same table?
I saw his post and I'm sorry but I just dont buy it. He said he's been a player since 2007 and so I cant buy it when he says "The last thing i wanted/intended to do was to cheat".
What he wrote did sound remorseful and this might just have been a silly mistake from a normally honest bloke but I'm sorry "he didnt intend to cheat" pull the other one!!! A firm no nonsense stance should be taken.
Yeah, maybe you guys are right, & I'm just a big softie.
You guys never done a dumb thing on impulse once in your life? No? I don't believe you.
There is a monsta difference between impulsive, & pre-meditated.
I DO buy his remorse. He told a little fib to state with, it grew & grew, & he had to go with it.
Anyway, it matters not. I would bet a pound to a pinch of poo that Sky Poker have no plans to make it anything except a life ban. They certainly won't be concerned with my views, either, so you can all breathe easy. And for once, Sky Poker ain't gonna get heat for taking a tough line, in the face of all those who say they don't.
PS - Tough audience, you lot.
But I thought it, so I said it. It remains my personal view, but I can easily see why the concensus disagrees. I'm OK with that.
Well said Tikay, totally agree. I feel bad for whats happened. My concerns were always for the integrity of the site and for the future of any similiar promotions. Posted by Donttelmum
You have no reason to feel bad, none at all, DTM, though I can understand why you do.
These things happen from time to time. Usually, they are dealt with under the radar, & nobody knows it has been sorted. This one came out on top, so there is an intensity to the whole thing, & half the world are on the Jury.
Anyway, lets move on, it's Friday evening, the weekend starts here.
Ha! Yeah, maybe you guys are right, & I'm just a big softie. You guys never done a dumb thing on impulse once in your life? No? I don't believe you. There is a monsta difference between impulsive, & pre-meditated. I DO buy his remorse. He told a little fib to state with, it grew & grew, & he had to go with it. Anyway, it matters not. I would bet a pound to a pinch of poo that Sky Poker have no plans to make it anything except a life ban. They certainly won't be concerned with my views, either, so you can all breathe easy. And for once, Sky Poker ain't gonna get heat for taking a tough line, in the face of all those who say they don't. PS - Tough audience, you lot. But I thought it, so I said it. It remains my personal view, but I can easily see why the concensus disagrees. I'm OK with that. Posted by Tikay10
Aw come on tikay! How was this not pre-meditated? He attempted the promo on his account, then had a go on his wife's account and then to keep the ball rolling used both accounts for 27 games. If it had been one or two games on the same table you would perhaps think ok it was just a silly mistake but 27??!
After how many games of playing the same table would you realise you were breaking all the rules and think about stopping?
Again if it had been a realitively new player I may have also shown him more sympathy but he's been playing here since 2007 and been an active member of the forum!!
I've made plenty of mistakes in my life and any time I've chose to go down a dodgy path if I get caught and given the appropriate punishment I can have no complaint.
It's sad to lose a player especially if it was just a silly mistake that he now regrets and he is normally a very honest person but there can only be one course of action in my opinion in this instance.
In Response to Re: Skill & Go Final - Who will win? **WITH SKYBET ODDS** : Aw come on tikay! How was this not pre-meditated? He attempted the promo on his account, then had a go on his wife's account and then to keep the ball rolling used both accounts for 27 games. If it had been one or two games on the same table you would perhaps think ok it was just a silly mistake but 27??! After how many games of playing the same table would you realise you were breaking all the rules and think about stopping? Again if it had been a realitively new player I may have also shown him more sympathy but he's been playing here since 2007 and been an active member of the forum!! I've made plenty of mistakes in my life and any time I've chose to go down a dodgy path if I get caught and given the appropriate punishment I can have no complaint. It's sad to lose a player especially if it was just a silly mistake that he now regrets and he is normally a very honest person but there can only be one course of action in my opinion in this instance. Posted by jdsallstar
Fine, we disagree, that's not a prob.
You are completely missing the psychology of the case, though. Think a little deeper.
In my personal view, after reading his "post", I don't believe it was pre-meditated, but once he started, it was hard to stop.
Remember the song?
It started with a kiss.....
You've got your wish, he's banned, presumably for life. Job done, move on.
I assume Tikay means he started the promo as honestly as everyone else, and not with the intention of doing anything untoward. Then got the idea after a bad start, snowballed from there and here we are.
Gonna sit on the fence regarding the length of ban, can see both sides points of view.
I assume Tikay means he started the promo as honestly as everyone else, and not with the intention of doing anything untoward. Then got the idea after a bad start, snowballed from there and here we are. Gonna sit on the fence regarding the length of ban, can see both sides points of view. Posted by hhyftrftdr
Walking a tightrope with warnings re this subject, so I'm trying extra hard to stay within the rules of the forum here...,
This fella could be back playing on sky tonight, fairly easily. (nobodies fault, it isn't sky specific, it happens everywhere)
I think all poker sites, but particularly Sky need to put a stronger message out there about the rules when it comes to things such as multi accounting/account sharing/colluding.
I started playing poker 6 yrs ago on a different site. I had 5 accounts with them, I had no idea this was against the rules.
When I first came to sky, I won a seat in a freeroll. I acknowledged the seat on here, and said I'd have to let my Dad play for me as I was away out and couldn't play.
I had no idea again that this was against the rules. Thankfully I was educated by PM before it happened.
How many people come on the forum and openly confess to stuff like this, not understanding that it's against the rules?
Time to get the message out there imo, plenty of ways to do it with the site having its own forum/tv show/twitter/facebook account. Make the penalties clear for all to see.
I have plenty more I could say on this but I think it serves no good purpose continuing this arguement and I don't think it's fair to discuss it when the man is not here to defend himself.
Lifetime ban is the only option. If anyone disagrees with my opinion I have no problem with that.
I have plenty more I could say on this but I think it serves no good purpose continuing this arguement and I don't think it's fair to discuss it when the man is not here to defend himself. Lifetime ban is the only option. If anyone disagrees with my opinion I have no problem with that. Posted by jdsallstar
Argument?
It's a debate, not an argument. Quite a difference!
People have different opinions, now't wrong with that, as long as the opposing views are expressed in a civil manner.
I deffo agree that its wrong to attack a man who can't defend himself though.
Just to clarify I was using the word argument but using it with the same meaning as the word debate. I say this just to emphasise that I hold no ill will from our brief exchange in case there was any confusion.
Walking a tightrope with warnings re this subject, so I'm trying extra hard to stay within the rules of the forum here..., This fella could be back playing on sky tonight, fairly easily. (nobodies fault, it isn't sky specific, it happens everywhere) I think all poker sites, but particularly Sky need to put a stronger message out there about the rules when it comes to things such as multi accounting/account sharing/colluding. I started playing poker 6 yrs ago on a different site. I had 5 accounts with them, I had no idea this was against the rules. When I first came to sky, I won a seat in a freeroll. I acknowledged the seat on here, and said I'd have to let my Dad play for me as I was away out and couldn't play. I had no idea again that this was against the rules. Thankfully I was educated by PM before it happened. How many people come on the forum and openly confess to stuff like this, not understanding that it's against the rules? Time to get the message out there imo, plenty of ways to do it with the site having its own forum/tv show/twitter/facebook account. Make the penalties clear for all to see. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Probably the best way would be to make it very clear during the sign up process. That way, everyone sees it. They may do that already but i cant remember.
In Response to Re: Skill & Go Final - Who will win? **WITH SKYBET ODDS** : Probably the best way would be to make it very clear during the sign up process. That way, everyone sees it. They may do that already but i cant remember. It's clear something needs doing, and quick. Posted by AJ_Rockets
Yeh there's a line in the small print which I ignored 5 times on WH.
Prob < 1% of people actually read that stuff.
It needs to stand out, it needs to be policed thoroughly all the time.
Who knows how many teams of colluders tried and failed to make the leaderboard of this promo.
In Response to Re: Skill & Go Final - Who will win? **WITH SKYBET ODDS** : Yeh there's a line in the small print which I ignored 5 times on WH. Prob < 1% of people actually read that stuff. It needs to stand out, it needs to be policed thoroughly all the time. Who knows how many teams of colluders tried and failed to make the leaderboard of this promo. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Probably not many. That, or they were rubbish at colluding
I think that we're going a little bit overboard with this. Guy cheated, got caught and is now paying the price.
Dyms i think everyone agrees are the easiest game to collude in? In my experience on here and I have a decent sample size, I am yet to be convinced that anyone had been colluding in the games I've played.
I applaud Dtm for being so vigilant and speaking up about it. He knew full well he would get a lot of grief if he was wrong and I admire him for bringing it to everyone's attention.
It is my opinion though that he only speeded up things. Sky were already going through the necessary checks to ensure that all was above board. Pocket9s would not have played in the final even without Dtms posts.
To now say that we have a big problem with colluding on the site is off the mark I believe.
Bit off topic i guess but wouldn't it make sense for sky to block chat while people are in a hand? Maybe just for DYMs at least. Other sites have this feature throughout all games which can be a tad annoying but can only see positivies with it being used for DYMs
Don't think this has been discussed yet and assume the answer is yes given what happened but does sky's software actually allow two players from the same location to play a SnG?
Also, plus 1 regarding something being done about multi accounting and educating people.
In Response to Re: Skill & Go Final - Who will win? **WITH SKYBET ODDS** : Probably not many. That, or they were rubbish at colluding I think that we're going a little bit overboard with this. Guy cheated, got caught and is now paying the price. Dyms i think everyone agrees are the easiest game to collude in? In my experience on here and I have a decent sample size, I am yet to be convinced that anyone had been colluding in the games I've played. I applaud Dtm for being so vigilant and speaking up about it. He knew full well he would get a lot of grief if he was wrong and I admire him for bringing it to everyone's attention. It is my opinion though that he only speeded up things. Sky were already going through the necessary checks to ensure that all was above board. Pocket9s would not have played in the final even without Dtms posts. To now say that we have a big problem with colluding on the site is off the mark I believe. Posted by Jac35
I'm pretty sure he's not saying we have a problem with colluding. Imo it's vvv rare you'll ever see anything like that and even when you do, unless it's pretty blatant it's hard to really know if it's genuine collusion or just an inexperienced player making school boy errors.
What he is saying (imo) is that there is a long running problem with account sharing/multi accounting, and this isn't new imo. How many people discussed setting up new accounts when the whole RTR thing was announced? How many regs were annoyed new customers would get 30% RB while they get less? Most people probably just grumbled a bit and got on with it but I'd bet ALOT that there are some people that have set up new accounts and that it's just gone unnoticed.
As Doh said, he had 5 accounts on WH when he was ignorant to the fact it was against the rules. I've also had multiple accounts on the same site before years ago when I was a complete noob to online poker and didn't realise it was wrong.
Loads of the time it'll be down to silly things like someone forget they had an account with X site so they just set up a new one, or it's been ages since they played, they forgot all their login details and just take the lazy option of making a new account not knowing that it's not allowed. When I did it, I didn't do it to gain any edge at all, I was ignorant and did it for one of the silly reasons above..... BUT the fact is, it went completely unnoticed... now my reason for doing it was completely harmless but if I can do it and 'get away with it' then that means that people who know full well it's wrong but do it to gain an advantage can also do it.
There must be loads of multi accounts, wife husband, brothers, sisters, son, dad, and so on, and theres nowt wrong with that. so what happens when there are say 3 playing in same house, same torni, and all reach final table. It would be hard not to tell, wife, brother, or whoever you have a top hand, or can they not play same tornie..?.
In Response to Re: Skill & Go Final - Who will win? **WITH SKYBET ODDS** : ???? nothing dodgy going on with me. i sweat blood and tears to get there! is there going to be in running? that would be awesome! Posted by pocket9s
In Response to Re: Skill & Go Final - Who will win? **WITH SKYBET ODDS** : ty splashies please do sort this.. i cant help if someone was online playine alot of the same games as me, as my 30 were completed mostly over one night where maybe other players playing the same type of game. after looking at my games i can see a few of the same players. but please check hand history too as this will prove that many players took as much off me as i did off them! ty Posted by pocket9s
He was denying his wrongdoing right up to the moment he was caught out. He had every intention of stealing at least £300 from honest people. He's not an innocent man, he knew what he was doing was wrong and he kept it up for as long as he had something to gain from it. His "apology" only came when he had nothing to gain by maintaining his deception. Now he has something to gain by placating those who have uncovered the evidence of his crime, and now he's ever so sincere in his apology.
Let's have some sort of perspective on this "punishment" of a lifetime ban from Sky Bet (if it can actually prevent him from opening another account). If this sort of thing is not taken further than the individual poker site, what's to stop people doing exactly the same on another site? Absolutely nothing.
Incentive to cheat: A guaranteed shot at £1500
Disincentive to cheat: IF you're caught, you have to close down one online poker site and double-click on another.
If this man were, say, an accountant looking after your elderly relative's finances, wouldn't you like to be aware that he has tried to do this sort of thing? He knew what he was doing was wrong, yet he saw an opportunity and took it, trying to cheat people he now wishes to refer to as "friends". Would you trust him? Would you be happy if you were cheated by him in future, in some other walk of life, and discovered that he'd been found out before and nothing had been done?
The only way that poker as a whole can be protected from people cheating, as well as wider society, is if we are firm and unforgiving when we uncover this sort of thing.
Much is made of the Sky Poker Community. So what kind of community is it? It can either be a community that protects wrongdoers or it can be one that robustly protects honest people from those wrongdoers.
Sky Poker currently has evidence in its possession of an attempt to defraud it and its customers of thousands of pounds. Sky as a company, and you and I as individuals, are not the appropriate arbiters of whether this should result in a criminal case being brought. It may well be that the Police and CPS would not pursue this but that is not for us to decide. The only appropriate thing for Sky Poker to do is to pass their evidence on.
We all have our opinions on what should happen to this chap. The right thing is for the evidence to decide and the people who should investigate that evidence are the police.
Comments
Ha!
Yeah, maybe you guys are right, & I'm just a big softie.
You guys never done a dumb thing on impulse once in your life? No? I don't believe you.
There is a monsta difference between impulsive, & pre-meditated.
I DO buy his remorse. He told a little fib to state with, it grew & grew, & he had to go with it.
Anyway, it matters not. I would bet a pound to a pinch of poo that Sky Poker have no plans to make it anything except a life ban. They certainly won't be concerned with my views, either, so you can all breathe easy. And for once, Sky Poker ain't gonna get heat for taking a tough line, in the face of all those who say they don't.
PS - Tough audience, you lot.
But I thought it, so I said it. It remains my personal view, but I can easily see why the concensus disagrees. I'm OK with that.
These things happen from time to time. Usually, they are dealt with under the radar, & nobody knows it has been sorted. This one came out on top, so there is an intensity to the whole thing, & half the world are on the Jury.
Anyway, lets move on, it's Friday evening, the weekend starts here.
Have a good weekend, all of you.
Peace & all that peacey stuff.
You are completely missing the psychology of the case, though. Think a little deeper.
In my personal view, after reading his "post", I don't believe it was pre-meditated, but once he started, it was hard to stop.
Remember the song?
It started with a kiss.....
You've got your wish, he's banned, presumably for life. Job done, move on.
Gonna sit on the fence regarding the length of ban, can see both sides points of view.
This fella could be back playing on sky tonight, fairly easily. (nobodies fault, it isn't sky specific, it happens everywhere)
I think all poker sites, but particularly Sky need to put a stronger message out there about the rules when it comes to things such as multi accounting/account sharing/colluding.
I started playing poker 6 yrs ago on a different site. I had 5 accounts with them, I had no idea this was against the rules.
When I first came to sky, I won a seat in a freeroll. I acknowledged the seat on here, and said I'd have to let my Dad play for me as I was away out and couldn't play.
I had no idea again that this was against the rules. Thankfully I was educated by PM before it happened.
How many people come on the forum and openly confess to stuff like this, not understanding that it's against the rules?
Time to get the message out there imo, plenty of ways to do it with the site having its own forum/tv show/twitter/facebook account. Make the penalties clear for all to see.
It's a debate, not an argument. Quite a difference!
People have different opinions, now't wrong with that, as long as the opposing views are expressed in a civil manner.
I deffo agree that its wrong to attack a man who can't defend himself though.
Anyway, the file is, presumably, closed.
I wish you well.
It's clear something needs doing, and quick.
Prob < 1% of people actually read that stuff.
It needs to stand out, it needs to be policed thoroughly all the time.
Who knows how many teams of colluders tried and failed to make the leaderboard of this promo.
Don't think this has been discussed yet and assume the answer is yes given what happened but does sky's software actually allow two players from the same location to play a SnG?
Also, plus 1 regarding something being done about multi accounting and educating people.
Regarding whether there was premeditation from this person, read this: Breaking The Rules??
In Response to Re: Skill & Go Final - Who will win? **WITH SKYBET ODDS**:He knew well in advance it was against the rules and had no problem with doing it when he could see an advantage.
For those suggesting that he was contrite when he realised he'd done wrong, read these posts from the first page of this thread:
In Response to Re: Skill & Go Final - Who will win? **WITH SKYBET ODDS**:
He was denying his wrongdoing right up to the moment he was caught out. He had every intention of stealing at least £300 from honest people. He's not an innocent man, he knew what he was doing was wrong and he kept it up for as long as he had something to gain from it. His "apology" only came when he had nothing to gain by maintaining his deception. Now he has something to gain by placating those who have uncovered the evidence of his crime, and now he's ever so sincere in his apology.
Let's have some sort of perspective on this "punishment" of a lifetime ban from Sky Bet (if it can actually prevent him from opening another account). If this sort of thing is not taken further than the individual poker site, what's to stop people doing exactly the same on another site? Absolutely nothing.
Incentive to cheat: A guaranteed shot at £1500
Disincentive to cheat: IF you're caught, you have to close down one online poker site and double-click on another.
If this man were, say, an accountant looking after your elderly relative's finances, wouldn't you like to be aware that he has tried to do this sort of thing? He knew what he was doing was wrong, yet he saw an opportunity and took it, trying to cheat people he now wishes to refer to as "friends". Would you trust him? Would you be happy if you were cheated by him in future, in some other walk of life, and discovered that he'd been found out before and nothing had been done?
The only way that poker as a whole can be protected from people cheating, as well as wider society, is if we are firm and unforgiving when we uncover this sort of thing.
Much is made of the Sky Poker Community. So what kind of community is it? It can either be a community that protects wrongdoers or it can be one that robustly protects honest people from those wrongdoers.
Sky Poker currently has evidence in its possession of an attempt to defraud it and its customers of thousands of pounds. Sky as a company, and you and I as individuals, are not the appropriate arbiters of whether this should result in a criminal case being brought. It may well be that the Police and CPS would not pursue this but that is not for us to decide. The only appropriate thing for Sky Poker to do is to pass their evidence on.
We all have our opinions on what should happen to this chap. The right thing is for the evidence to decide and the people who should investigate that evidence are the police.