Friday 12/9/14 Very good session today and somewhat of a short one. I played in 2x DYM's and cashed both, so although the temptation was there to play-on and build the BR some more, I took the option to cease and do a "devonfish" and "Book the win"
Couple of awkward spots within game 1 @ 60p level where I was putting money into a raise then got re-raised, and was enforced to give up my str8 draw when I noticed the board and the betting suggested my opponent possibly "Had it"
Still I was pleased to fight back and ended up eliminating another player when he called my large bet with an all-in and found he was drawn-dead.
In Response to GARY L'S BR THREAD BR £40.77 (Starting BR 8th Aug 14 - Aprox £50) : Friday 12/9/14 Very good session today and somewhat of a short one. I played in 2x DYM's and cashed both, so although the temptation was there to play-on and build the BR some more, I took the option to cease and do a "devonfish" and "Book the win" Couple of awkward spots within game 1 @ 60p level where I was putting money into a raise then got re-raised, and was enforced to give up my str8 draw when I noticed the board and the betting suggested my opponent possibly "Had it" Still I was pleased to fight back and ended up eliminating another player when he called my large bet with an all-in and found he was drawn-dead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SESSION RESULTS P 2 W2 P/L +£1.25 BR NOW : £40.77 Moving forward in correct way! Posted by GaryLaud
In Response to GARY L'S BR THREAD BR £40.77 (Starting BR 8th Aug 14 - Aprox £50) : Friday 12/9/14 Very good session today and somewhat of a short one. I played in 2x DYM's and cashed both, so although the temptation was there to play-on and build the BR some more, I took the option to cease and do a "devonfish" and "Book the win" Couple of awkward spots within game 1 @ 60p level where I was putting money into a raise then got re-raised, and was enforced to give up my str8 draw when I noticed the board and the betting suggested my opponent possibly "Had it" Still I was pleased to fight back and ended up eliminating another player when he called my large bet with an all-in and found he was drawn-dead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SESSION RESULTS P 2 W2 P/L +£1.25 BR NOW : £40.77 Moving forward in correct way! Posted by GaryLaud
Keep going bud. Nice chatting to ya in those 60p's you were in, when was that last week?
So back down under £40 again after two losses today. What with luck etc, I decided to stop at after the second game as clearly things were not going v well.
1st game I GII and lucked out in yet ANOTHER flush v gr8'er flush situation.
Second game I just played a bit poorly.
ALOT of thinking to do poker-wise as my form is yo-yoing at the moment and I think I'm trying to play too many hands rather than focusing on premiums and shove situations late on!
Your bankroll is going to remain very stagnant (in profit or loss) if you just play 2 DYM's at a time. Obviously nothing wrong with this, just don't expect any big moves in either direction with such limited volume under your belt.
Your bankroll is going to remain very stagnant (in profit or loss) if you just play 2 DYM's at a time. Obviously nothing wrong with this, just don't expect any big moves in either direction with such limited volume under your belt. Posted by hhyftrftdr
Yes i know and dig what your are saying hhy, but other thing is what with todays bad form and outdraws i think i have played it correct and protected my BR by stopping after just the 2x games!! Could easily have gone onto play more on friday but time constraints and alll that, and was happy with the small gain..
Played five games today. Lost the first game when I played quite poor AGAIN, and failed with an attempted bluff leaving my stack quite low. The I shoved with A5, which wasn't particularly the best of hands to go with but I knew I'd have at least a 40% chance. %'ages lowered when villain turns over quuens and I drew-dead on the flop when the Jammy S** FLOPPED QUAD QUEENS!!!!!
The other game I lost was one which dragged on until Blind Level9, and could quite easily have gone either way. "Quite unbelievable" was one phase used in the chat-box.
In another game which I cashed, a maniac bet into me and kept raising when I was holding QQ's - I wasn't letting that one go, when there's only 1x other starting hand I'm behind tCo. You can imagine my shock when villain turns over Kx and goe's onto win the hand with 2xPrs with both hole-cards pairing!!!
There was some Fun in the chatbox about his (Villains) betting and I replied that I felt good playing QQ's and about my suprise when he turned over what he did!
The VERY NEXT hand the DYM was over as the player who wrote in the chat box shoves with around 2.1k in chips and the Kx player who beat my pocket queen's shoves behind and ends up winning the hand AND the DYM in 1st place! Crazy game
I finished this session break-even, which is a bit of a funny dynamic as when playing 5x games at 60p level if you win 3 of them, you end up break even....I don't know whether this is the same at other levels, but I suspect this may be the case or you may finish with a small profit at such a win-rate as I finished with - 60%.
I finished this session break-even, which is a bit of a funny dynamic as when playing 5x games at 60p level if you win 3 of them, you end up break even....I don't know whether this is the same at other levels, but I suspect this may be the case or you may finish with a small profit at such a win-rate as I finished with - 60%. Posted by GaryLaud
OK, I'll take the bait...
Once you get to the £3.30 games, a 60% win rate would get you around 9% ROI and see a healthy profit... entirely because of the lower rake vs rake at the 60p games.
Even at the next level up from your current games (the £1.15 games) the ROI on a 60% win rate would be around 4%...
Well done all the same though, a 60% win rate is really good going... as can be seen from Sharkscope, it is far better than my results at the DYM format!!
ps my ROI calcs are very rough and ready so my apologies if I'm slightly out with my maths!
I finished this session break-even, which is a bit of a funny dynamic as when playing 5x games at 60p level if you win 3 of them, you end up break even....I don't know whether this is the same at other levels, but I suspect this may be the case Posted by GaryLaud
It did get silly in the end, but when people were constantly advising you about rake at micro stakes, they weren't lying.
Accepting it and getting on with it anyway is 1 thing, but it sounds like it didn't even register?
i think the nits guide to moving up should focus on win % and not win £.
ie Gary should make the move once he is comfortable he can beat the players in the 60p dyms, not when he can beat the rake which as described is unlikely ever to happen.
But using these games for training isn't a totally stupid idea as long as winning money at them isn't the objective.
Can only echo what others said, you'll never win money long-term in these games. It just won't happen.
You can move up a bit but imo just ditch the DYMs and play 4nl. You got 10 BIs and games are so soft you can easy beat the rake. Read Dohhhhs guide to micro cash (ask for a link if u need it). You'll become a better player, you'll win more and you'll enjoy it more (mostly cos you're winning)... Can't imagine anything more soul destroying that playing a game you cannot beat.
Hi Guys, (Geldy, Doh, S'Aces, Teddy, Spinky). I totally hear out what has been said, however, I am happy at present playing the 60p DYM's with what is a BETTER bankroll than I've had previously, (Now playing with circa £40-£50 instead of around £10-£20 I had when First starting out)
YES I AM somewhat limited at present in playing the higher staked DYM's £1-£3 games, as my BR isn't as High as I feel I need it to be so that IF I am to commence playing these sort of games, then I feel that another deposit or thrice to double/treble my bankroll would be a sensible idea in order for me to feel somewhat comfortable in playing the games in higher-stakes than what I am playing in at present...
Yes I guess Geldy is indeed correct, I AM kinda using these as training and as I become more comfortable with my form and getting better remarks from those who watch my games (IE Devonfish) then I will eventually drop in £1 games to the mix. FWIW(For What it's worth) TODAY I played a session of 5x60p DYM's and cashed in 3, losing in 2x of them, which gives me a cash/win-rate of 60% for today, better than the running-rate I am achieving at present of 51% SINCE I began monitoring my games following my deposit on August 8th.
I think the be-all of this would be to save-up (I DO have limited financial "Clout" at the moment hence I've only ever depositied once!) and then make a second deposit, increasing my BR and then look at the level I can start with there-in.
I dunno, maybe Oct 8th (2x Months On from my 1st Deposit) would be a good starting point and give me something to work on saving for!?
Can only echo what others said, you'll never win money long-term in these games. It just won't happen. You can move up a bit but imo just ditch the DYMs and play 4nl. You got 10 BIs and games are so soft you can easy beat the rake. Read Dohhhhs guide to micro cash (ask for a link if u need it). You'll become a better player, you'll win more and you'll enjoy it more (mostly cos you're winning)... Can't imagine anything more soul destroying that playing a game you cannot beat. Posted by Lambert180
Hi Lambert. I'm going to drop you a PM on your thought's here.
Just do what makes you happy and are comfotable with.
Please dont get disheartened if you dribble money though mate. Take confidence from your play and win %, not your bankroll growth, which will in all likelyhood slowly drop.
Hi Guys, (Geldy, Doh, S'Aces, Teddy, Spinky). I totally hear out what has been said, however, I am happy at present playing the 60p DYM's with what is a BETTER bankroll than I've had previously, (Now playing with circa £40-£50 instead of around £10-£20 I had when First starting out) YES I AM somewhat limited at present in playing the higher staked DYM's £1-£3 games, as my BR isn't as High as I feel I need it to be so that IF I am to commence playing these sort of games, then I feel that another deposit or thrice to double/treble my bankroll would be a sensible idea in order for me to feel somewhat comfortable in playing the games in higher-stakes than what I am playing in at present... Yes I guess Geldy is indeed correct, I AM kinda using these as training and as I become more comfortable with my form and getting better remarks from those who watch my games (IE Devonfish) then I will eventually drop in £1 games to the mix. FWIW(For What it's worth) TODAY I played a session of 5x60p DYM's and cashed in 3, losing in 2x of them, which gives me a cash/win-rate of 60% for today, better than the running-rate I am achieving at present of 51% SINCE I began monitoring my games following my deposit on August 8th. I think the be-all of this would be to save-up (I DO have limited financial "Clout" at the moment hence I've only ever depositied once!) and then make a second deposit, increasing my BR and then look at the level I can start with there-in. I dunno, maybe Oct 8th (2x Months On from my 1st Deposit) would be a good starting point and give me something to work on saving for!? Posted by GaryLaud
Maybe the thread should leave rake alone just for the min and go in the direction of BRM. Your saying your playing with £50. So divide £50 by £1.15 and thats 43 games in a row you'd have to lose in order to go broke, but as your winning between 51% and 60% of games played, you won't need to worry about that. Plus there are two levels below the 1.15's, the 60p's and the 30p's that you could drop down to and exercise good BRM should you hit a bad run.
Gary, I did just write out a long post for you but it's not necessary, here's the short version...
continue playing 60p games 60% is achievable use these games as practice.
drop in the odd £1 game here & there, as & when you feel like it.
MAKE NOTES ON THESE £1 PLAYERS.... this is so so so important.
these notes can be the difference between a cash & a failure, it's that simple.
ok, if you don't do this then you will learn the hard way, by them taking your money off you first.
even after you've done this, you could still lose, but you've given yourself the best chance to succeed.
(ALL PLAYERS have betting patterns, even the best players, which can be spotted. the top players use variation as deception though & 'mix things up' making it harder to spot. the lower level players, myself included probably, the £3 & under levels predominately, it's more noticeable...if you look out & watch for it.)
these betting patterns are our passport to success, as they get repeated over & over again, and we can use this to our advantage, in other words this is what gives us part of our our edge, along with playing correctly at the right times also, & makes us winning players,... over time anyway.
that's it, simple. play tight, especially first 2 to 3 levels,play aggressively when you play a hand, play even more aggressively on the bubble, no limping no calling, raise, allin or fold.
5x games at 60p level if you win 3 of them, you end up break even....I don't know whether this is the same at other levels, but I suspect this may be the case Posted by GaryLaud
Sorry about triggering another rake debate Gary, but the highlighted comment above suggested you still weren't sure about the impact rake has.
Winning 60% of games at higher levels will give you a healthy ROI.
Anyway, investing some time and abit of money at 60p games to learn isn't such a bad idea, as long as your expectations are realistic and you don't become disillusioned.
Best of luck.
P.S (Post Scriptum) Listen to Dev!! We may disagree about how best to play KK, but at these levels he knows how to get the job done!
Comments
Friday 12/9/14
Very good session today and somewhat of a short one. I played in 2x DYM's and cashed both, so although the temptation was there to play-on and build the BR some more, I took the option to cease and do a "devonfish" and "Book the win"
Couple of awkward spots within game 1 @ 60p level where I was putting money into a raise then got re-raised, and was enforced to give up my str8 draw when I noticed the board and the betting suggested my opponent possibly "Had it"
Still I was pleased to fight back and ended up eliminating another player when he called my large bet with an all-in and found he was drawn-dead.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SESSION RESULTS
P 2
W2
P/L +£1.25
BR NOW : £40.77
Moving forward in correct way!
P2
L2
BR -£1.20 (Curr £39.57)
So back down under £40 again after two losses today. What with luck etc, I decided to stop at after the second game as clearly things were not going v well.
1st game I GII and lucked out in yet ANOTHER flush v gr8'er flush situation.
Second game I just played a bit poorly.
ALOT of thinking to do poker-wise as my form is yo-yoing at the moment and I think I'm trying to play too many hands rather than focusing on premiums and shove situations late on!
P5
W3
L2
W/R 60%
P/L = 0.00 (break even)
BR remains £39.57
Played five games today. Lost the first game when I played quite poor AGAIN, and failed with an attempted bluff leaving my stack quite low. The I shoved with A5, which wasn't particularly the best of hands to go with but I knew I'd have at least a 40% chance. %'ages lowered when villain turns over quuens and I drew-dead on the flop when the Jammy S** FLOPPED QUAD QUEENS!!!!!
The other game I lost was one which dragged on until Blind Level9, and could quite easily have gone either way. "Quite unbelievable" was one phase used in the chat-box.
In another game which I cashed, a maniac bet into me and kept raising when I was holding QQ's - I wasn't letting that one go, when there's only 1x other starting hand I'm behind tCo. You can imagine my shock when villain turns over Kx and goe's onto win the hand with 2xPrs with both hole-cards pairing!!!
There was some Fun in the chatbox about his (Villains) betting and I replied that I felt good playing QQ's and about my suprise when he turned over what he did!
The VERY NEXT hand the DYM was over as the player who wrote in the chat box shoves with around 2.1k in chips and the Kx player who beat my pocket queen's shoves behind and ends up winning the hand AND the DYM in 1st place! Crazy game
I finished this session break-even, which is a bit of a funny dynamic as when playing 5x games at 60p level if you win 3 of them, you end up break even....I don't know whether this is the same at other levels, but I suspect this may be the case or you may finish with a small profit at such a win-rate as I finished with - 60%.
Once you get to the £3.30 games, a 60% win rate would get you around 9% ROI and see a healthy profit... entirely because of the lower rake vs rake at the 60p games.
Even at the next level up from your current games (the £1.15 games) the ROI on a 60% win rate would be around 4%...
Well done all the same though, a 60% win rate is really good going... as can be seen from Sharkscope, it is far better than my results at the DYM format!!
ps my ROI calcs are very rough and ready so my apologies if I'm slightly out with my maths!
I totally hear out what has been said, however, I am happy at present playing the 60p DYM's with what is a BETTER bankroll than I've had previously, (Now playing with circa £40-£50 instead of around £10-£20 I had when First starting out)
YES I AM somewhat limited at present in playing the higher staked DYM's £1-£3 games, as my BR isn't as High as I feel I need it to be so that IF I am to commence playing these sort of games, then I feel that another deposit or thrice to double/treble my bankroll would be a sensible idea in order for me to feel somewhat comfortable in playing the games in higher-stakes than what I am playing in at present...
Yes I guess Geldy is indeed correct, I AM kinda using these as training and as I become more comfortable with my form and getting better remarks from those who watch my games (IE Devonfish) then I will eventually drop in £1 games to the mix. FWIW(For What it's worth) TODAY I played a session of 5x60p DYM's and cashed in 3, losing in 2x of them, which gives me a cash/win-rate of 60% for today, better than the running-rate I am achieving at present of 51% SINCE I began monitoring my games following my deposit on August 8th.
I think the be-all of this would be to save-up (I DO have limited financial "Clout" at the moment hence I've only ever depositied once!) and then make a second deposit, increasing my BR and then look at the level I can start with there-in.
I dunno, maybe Oct 8th (2x Months On from my 1st Deposit) would be a good starting point and give me something to work on saving for!?
I'm going to drop you a PM on your thought's here.
Regards
Gary