Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby

F_Ivanovic

As title says, please un-highliten the Spin up tables and remove them from the top of the lobby. I don't have a problem with the games - they're likely unbeatable but they're a bit of fun and at least better than RR's but IMO given the gambling nature of these games they shouldn't be promoted to the extent they currently are.

bluffulot6

In Response to Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

As title says, please un-highliten the Spin up tables and remove them from the top of the lobby. I don't have a problem with the games - they're likely unbeatable but they're a bit of fun and at least better than RR's but IMO given the gambling nature of these games they shouldn't be promoted to the extent they currently are.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Why would you like them removed ......why not give the lesser players a chance of beating the game few times per week these will prove you popular and profitiable for sky and certain players 

Itsover4u

I would say they are beatable at $1/$2 & above (rake will eat below that) in much the same way spin & go's are beatable.... just huge variance

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

In Response to Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : Why would you like them removed ......why not give the lesser players a chance of beating the game few times per week these will prove you popular and profitiable for sky and certain players 
Posted by bluffulot6

Huh? lesser players have less chance of beating the game playing these and their moneu will run out quicker.

I didn't say to remove them, they're a fun format of the game to play but the nature of them can encourage degenerative gambling and as such I don't think they should be promoted and highlighted at the top of the lobby to the extent that they are. 

ALFIE123

In Response to Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

As title says, please un-highliten the Spin up tables and remove them from the top of the lobby. I don't have a problem with the games - they're likely unbeatable but they're a bit of fun and at least better than RR's but IMO given the gambling nature of these games they shouldn't be promoted to the extent they currently are.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

New Idea = Give it a chance

Give it a Chance by promoting them.

alex1229

There is a thread on this already. 

They are beatable, and they're appealing to the right segment of players to Sky. If Sky remove them they're gunna lose a **** of a lot of players

MattBates

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

There is a thread on this already.  They are beatable, and they're appealing to the right segment of players to Sky. If Sky remove them they're gunna lose a **** of a lot of players
Posted by alex1229

How have you decided this?

Jac35

I never really understand these threads. 

I don't like turbo dyms and I would rather players play normal dyms. It's their choice though. I just use the filters to remove them from my lobby.

alex1229

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

I never really understand these threads.  I don't like turbo dyms and I would rather players play normal dyms. It's their choice though. I just use the filters to remove them from my lobby.
Posted by Jac35

Man who speaks sense.

Ivanovic, you're not the only player here believe it or not. I'm sure they're more qualified to make a decision on this then you are.

Sky_Dan

Hi all,

I understand both sides of this argument - it will be impossible to please everyone obviously!

We have highlighted them as a new promotion and I believe we will stop highlighting them at some stage when people are used to knowing where to find them. As you can see many people are struggling to find them via the filters still.

Dan

Phantom66

I love the game of poker, bit of a purist at heart in that I like strategy and complex situations.

I absolutely hated it when nl dyms took off and wiped out 6max traffic - playing for survival not to win doesn't float my boat, but there is no point trying to dictate what other people play or what sky offer. Most people only do this with an element of self interest anyway.

Sky will try and innovate and freshen things up - some games will catch on and others will fall by the wayside. If they are popular they will stay.

For these games it is far too soon to say how popular they will be and no-one can say with any certainty whether or not they are beatable. In theory given 6 closely matched players on a table then over time the rake will win surely. However that's the same for any version of the game.

In practice at the moment (over too small a sample to be meaningful) I find them beatable. Why - quite simply because you get a bunch of bad players on them. Isn't that the real secret of winning at poker, playing people who are worse than you?

Players who, for example,

1. Do not BI for the full amount. We all know that's not exactly optimal right? Maybe understandable on a mastercash table if you want to try it out and keep the decisions simple and double up from a shortstack. But I have seen players BI for 70p on a 20nl table.

2. Do not have auto-topup on. Again big disadvantage generally, but on these? if your raise has been called and you lose a pot to only have 6/7 bigs not 10 the next hand is a leak, but a lot of players are doing it. Even crazier, I have seen players get dwindled down to 2BB and still not top up.

3. Shove/call any 2 cards. Clearly you need a wide range at 10bigs but there are a higher proportion of maniacs getting in with any 2, even calling with 23s, 74o (and yes I remember those because the 23 hit a flush and the 74 a str8).

Plenty more examples of exploitable play if you understand your shove/call ranges at these levels and take notes on what others shove/call with.

So - my 2 penneth.

Keep them highlighted for now - rarely more than 1 table per level open so I don't buy the it's killing traffic elsewhere argument, traffic is just seasonally low.

I personally like them so I am biased in their favour - I should hate them as its not proper cash poker, but then I suck at proper cash poker and get beaten up by good players who have position on me. At the moment in these I more than hold my own.

I still play and very much enjoy other forms of the game too, I have just found with these I am playing cash again when for good bankroll management reasons that was very unwise of me in the past.

Other people (not on this thread) seem to diss them because some of their favourite "bums" have moved on to another game and they don't want to mix their regular multi-table games to follow them onto a spinup table.

shakinaces

lol I quite like them highlighted at the top, stops you from accidentally opening one.

What I don't get is why only some are highlighted... wouldn't it make more sense to highlight all or none?

I also look forward to a new diary with a decent player trying to play sufficient quantity to prove whether they are longer term beatable or not, try and put that debate to bed.

alex1229

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

Hi all, I understand both sides of this argument - it will be impossible to please everyone obviously! We have highlighted them as a new promotion and I believe we will stop highlighting them soon. Dan
Posted by Sky_Dan

But why are they displeased? Change is part of the online game, they're complaining just for the sake of it.

Whereas if you stop highlightening them, the games wont run, which would mean myself an many others wont be able to play here anymore.

Phantom66

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

lol I quite like them highlighted at the top, stops you from accidentally opening one. What I don't get is why only some are highlighted... wouldn't it make more sense to highlight all or none? I also look forward to a new diary with a decent player trying to play sufficient quantity to prove whether they are longer term beatable or not, try and put that debate to bed.
Posted by shakinaces

Hmm dont think I qualify as "decent" and I dont think I play "sufficient" quantity either although I would be happy to keep a separate note of spinup resluts on my diary.

Maybe Dohhhh should have a go at these?

Out of interest, how many hands/hours play would you consider is sufficient quantity to judge whether someone is beating them?

I dont track time played only sessions and profit/loss so I cant say what my winrate is in terms of buyins or BB per hour.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

I never really understand these threads.  I don't like turbo dyms and I would rather players play normal dyms. It's their choice though. I just use the filters to remove them from my lobby.
Posted by Jac35

The filters on Sky for cash games aren't brilliant! I don't think there's a way to remove these games from my lobby, otherwise I would. At least turbo dym's aren't highlighted at the top of the lobby (and you can remove them via filter!) 

I think everyone seems to have missed the point of this thread. I've already said that I actually find these games quite fun and have dipped into them a couple of times. Unlike capped games which I really do hate - but yet I posted about the Spin up games instead because it has nothing to do with me liking or disliking a game, rather it has to do with the inherint high variance and gambling nature of these games making them prime for degenerative gamblers to jump in and lose a chunk of money. You can't control what other people do and Sky are out to make money and have SkyBingo, SkyCasino and SkyVegas. And I'm OK with these games being out there - but when you put them at the top of lobby highlighted it's only making it easier for those gambling addicts. 

Phantom66

So it's a moral arguement then Ivan?

Tough one that - I must admit I did feel uncomfortable by the end of my biggest winning session - only time I have played a long session for nearly 2 hours on a sat nght (x4 points on mobiles). The guy who lost most was shoving and calling with any 2 and even when he showed up with something was getting more than their share of bad luck too. Yet they kept reloading.

I stood up with £30 from my £2 buyin and he must have lost more than that.

I am not sure spinups "encourage gambling" any more than anything else on this site though.

We have all see any 2 card maniacs hit regular and mastercash tables - I would argue that given the 10BB limit on buy-in, a poor reckless player may actually lose less on spinups than regular cash. Given the nature of the tables, they have more chance of spinning up big scores on these sometimes and they can suffer more busts as on 20nl for example they are only losing £2 each time.

I wonder if Sky have any monitoring in place to see whether there is any difference between players losing heavily on these versus other games?

alex1229

Moral argument? Seriously you guys have totally lost me. Its just a fun variant of Poker. Poker has become a grind fest, i dont have time or the will to sit down at a table for hours on end, watching everyone fold playing a handfull of  hands an hour. This is the perfect game for players like me, who wants some quick fun and action.

Why are sites doing things such as 'Twister' 'Spin & Go' 'All in tournies' 

The days  of multitabling grinders trying to breakeven to profit on hefty rakeback is over....quit whinging, either embrace or just leave people to playing it.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

Moral argument? Seriously you guys have totally lost me. Its just a fun variant of Poker. Poker has become a grind fest, i dont have time or the will to sit down at a table for hours on end, watching everyone fold playing a handfull of  hands an hour. This is the perfect game for players like me, who wants some quick fun and action. Why are sites doing things such as 'Twister' 'Spin & Go' 'All in tournies'  The days  of multitabling grinders trying to breakeven to profit on hefty rakeback is over....quit whinging, either embrace or just leave people to playing it.
Posted by alex1229

I've not suggested getting rid of the games - I agree it's nice to have these games to break up the monotomous grind, although personally I prefer Omaha for that. I just don't think promoting heavy gambling games on a poker site which is supposed to be about skill is good for the image of poker. Vicky Coren said the same thing about Pokerstars opening a casino game.

@Phantom: I think the difference is before someone with £40 in their account might decide to play a NL20 cash game. That money could last them a good couple of hours.

With the Spin up games at the top of the lobby they might sit down at NL200 with £20 and within 5/10 minutes could have lost their £40 and decide to reload another £40 - they could easily lose £200 in a couple of hours.

alex1229

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : I've not suggested getting rid of the games - I agree it's nice to have these games to break up the monotomous grind, although personally I prefer Omaha for that. I just don't think promoting heavy gambling games on a poker site which is supposed to be about skill is good for the image of poker. Vicky Coren said the same thing about Pokerstars opening a casino game. @Phantom: I think the difference is before someone with £40 in their account might decide to play a NL20 cash game. That money could last them a good couple of hours. With the Spin up games at the top of the lobby they might sit down at NL200 with £20 and within 5/10 minutes could have lost their £40 and decide to reload another £40 - they could easily lose £200 in a couple of hours.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Mate people can loose money on any game, i find if i have a bad session on this i loose a lot less...If i'm playing 1/2 £200 deep, and im having a bad sesh and lose 5 buy ins, i'm down £1k. On this playing 1/2 im down £100...the games arnt as reckless as u think, you can easilly get to £200 from a £20 buy in and play some decent poker. 

Its actually one of the main reasons i play this as it's much more bankroll friendly, stops me tilting and spazzing off hundreds of pounds (talking from experience here unfortunatly) so id have to disagree with ur argument of it being a degen/bad game. Quite the opposite.

huuuuume

In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby:

lol I quite like them highlighted at the top, stops you from accidentally opening one. What I don't get is why only some are highlighted... wouldn't it make more sense to highlight all or none? I also look forward to a new diary with a decent player trying to play sufficient quantity to prove whether they are longer term beatable or not, try and put that debate to bed.
Posted by shakinaces

THIS

If I click the 'regular' filter on my cash game lobby I am still left with all the spin up tables.  I have no intention of playing these so can I remove them from my lobby in the same way I can remove the heads up tables that I don't play?

goldnballz

Are you friends with Dan Coleman?