Ivan I 100% back you that your suggestion is not out of self interest - clearly is the case though on other "anti-spinup" threads and some comments on here.
Games change over time and it's best to be an early adopter than wait and wait and see. Glad you do play them and are commenting from experience.
At the moment I feel I have a huge edge on these - even if it became a small edge Id rather play these than nitty reg infested cash.
I agree PLO is an alternative too, have dabbled myself, feel I dont know enough to beat the game steadily, whereas being a 6max SNG player I found the adjustment to spinup cash really easy as I am used to playing a short stack and making shove/call decisions. Furthermore in this format you can reload and so only need a small edge on your ranges to make money.
It definitely has a skill element to it - although still unconvinced that is enough for it to be profitable. It feels similar to playing perfect blackjack strategy, you'll lose the absolute minimum while others lose much faster, but still will struggle to bink wins?
Sounds like a fun tournament idea though. Spin-Up BH games starting with 10BB just to speed the KOs up even more. All the fun of spin-up with less incremental loss through the rake.
Spin Up games are fun for recreational player like myself No doubt if they remain long enough they will be infested by the multi-tabling Set miners who currently inhabit the regulat NLHE cash games Right now they're fun so I'll play them, when they cease to be fun, I'll stop easy as that For those calling for their removal I suggest you do the same, if you dont like 'em dont play 'em, we'll try not to miss you too much
Just had a session playing 3 of these tables (probably longest I've played on them thus far) and made a decent profit thanks to running well on the 2/4 game! I might well make these regular games alongside Omaha for a while and see how it goes. I definitely think that there is money to be made in these games given the amount of Rec's that play them (plus I noticed a Reg playing that was way too tight)
That being said, I'm still not convinced they're a good idea for the future of poker. Recreational players are likely burning through their money a lot faster playing these games. Losing £80 in 10 minutes is fine for winning reg's who have the bankroll to afford such a loss but can easily be a recreational's weekly or monthly spending money for poker. And the rec's that do go on heaters are likely to punt it off again in much the same fashion further down the line on the same games.
@ Alex: Yeah, I'm talking about ante's in 100bb (or deeper) cash games. Whilst nits don't thrive in these games they make a decent enough profit through rakeback to do alright. Ante's are needed in these games so that playing a nitty style can no longer be profitable. I know it would take longer to code and implement but IMO should be a priority.
Just had a session playing 3 of these tables (probably longest I've played on them thus far) and made a decent profit thanks to running well on the 2/4 game! I might well make these regular games alongside Omaha for a while and see how it goes. I definitely think that there is money to be made in these games given the amount of Rec's that play them (plus I noticed a Reg playing that was way too tight) Posted by F_Ivanovic
Hooray a convert!
That being said, I'm still not convinced they're a good idea for the future of poker. Recreational players are likely burning through their money a lot faster playing these games. Losing £80 in 10 minutes is fine for winning reg's who have the bankroll to afford such a loss but can easily be a recreational's weekly or monthly spending money for poker. And the rec's that do go on heaters are likely to punt it off again in much the same fashion further down the line on the same games. Posted by F_Ivanovic
Boo, a naysayer!
I thought I had convinced you to stop speculating about who will lose money at what speed and the impact that will have. Wait and see. Whether these games run or not bad players and players on tilt will spew.
I think the key to Recs trying these out is to think carefully about what they buy in for. E,g if would normally sit in 20nl with £20 - set aside £20 and play 20nl spinups and stop if they have to reload 10 times. That way the same amount is lost, if it is lost, but I expect more fun will be had on the spinup table and the rec should have a greater %chance of winning a session than vs the nitty 100bb regs.
Just had a session playing 3 of these tables (probably longest I've played on them thus far) and made a decent profit thanks to running well on the 2/4 game! I might well make these regular games alongside Omaha for a while and see how it goes. I definitely think that there is money to be made in these games given the amount of Rec's that play them (plus I noticed a Reg playing that was way too tight) That being said, I'm still not convinced they're a good idea for the future of poker. Recreational players are likely burning through their money a lot faster playing these games. Losing £80 in 10 minutes is fine for winning reg's who have the bankroll to afford such a loss but can easily be a recreational's weekly or monthly spending money for poker. And the rec's that do go on heaters are likely to punt it off again in much the same fashion further down the line on the same games. @ Alex: Yeah, I'm talking about ante's in 100bb (or deeper) cash games. Whilst nits don't thrive in these games they make a decent enough profit through rakeback to do alright. Ante's are needed in these games so that playing a nitty style can no longer be profitable. I know it would take longer to code and implement but IMO should be a priority. Posted by F_Ivanovic
love as the title says please leave these highlighted ( now i've played few and made MONEY )
In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : This is just hilarious! So what you are saying is all the top players who grind any form of the game where stack sizes are around the 10bb mark are just punting without implementing any strategy? Posted by Curt360x27
lmao
What top players buy into games with 10bb?
Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand.
I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this?
In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : lmao What top players buy into games with 10bb? Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand. I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this? Posted by ajs4385
I'll take that challenge - would you mind index linkig the grand though as it will probably take me about 25 years to play that many hands of anything.
Is there an easy way of logging how many hands you have played at a specific type of table?
In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : lmao What top players buy into games with 10bb? Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand. I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this? Posted by ajs4385
Honestly you're so wrong with this - it would be true in reg infested games but when you have players punting in 40bb's with 55, how can that not be more profitable than the rake? Games don't stay at 10bb for long but even at 10bb's deep there are still edges to be had against recreationals that either fold too much (eg. players limp/fold with 7bb) call with incorrect hands (eg. low suited cards) or not shove a wide enough range. Pots are only raked when you see a flop and at 10bb you don't see many flops anyway.
In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : lmao What top players buy into games with 10bb? Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand. I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this? Posted by ajs4385
My apologies I forgot MTT's and sit n go's dont exist in your world, how stupid of me.
Of course if everyone was playing optimally (or at least very close too) then they wouldn't be profitable but as Ivan points out there's still going to be plenty of people making pretty huge mistakes even this shallow. I think a lot of people are ignoring this fact when discussing these tables and making a judgement on whether these games are beatable or not on the basis of everyone playing perfectly.
In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : I agree with those of you who have mentioned this - I will try to sort this out now. *Update* - unfortunately the 'regular' filter refers to the type of poker being played, IE NL, PL, Heads-Up. Because the Spin Up tables are NL they are appearing in all filters relating to NL. I don't think this should be the case and agree that the filters need some work. I am going to raise this to see if we can get something sorted. Posted by Sky_Dan
The filters are silly and need work IMO - it should just be Regular (NL+PL 6max+TV tables) , HU, Short-Stack (spin-up+capped), and maybe DEEP for TV tables if theyre not already under the regular filter
why on earth would you wanna filter for only Pot Limit+Capped
These games are all about increasing rake and lowering skill edges.
I honestly cant believe some regs are falling for it.
Cant you all see how this is so bad for us.
Im all for protecting fish, I would like to see buy in limited as its better to sheer a sheep numerous times than skin it once. I would actually back getting rid of 200bb tables or even having highest buy in at 50bb for sake of the long term good of the game. However, 10bb games are ridiculous.
In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : lmao What top players buy into games with 10bb? Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand. I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this? Posted by ajs4385
Yes. This is what we need a diary on. If I wasn't such a weak-tight nit (who will DEFINITELY lose at spin up) I'd do the task myself.
100 hands per hour, per table. The 100k hands can be done soon enough by a regular grinder
It's only the Sky-high rake that I think makes it a challenge, if that was a bit lower then the games would be a win for all, more fun for recs, definitely beatable by regs.
Losing the 200bb buy-in tables though? Not a fan of that idea!
These games are all about increasing rake and lowering skill edges. I honestly cant believe some regs are falling for it. Cant you all see how this is so bad for us. Im all for protecting fish, I would like to see buy in limited as its better to sheer a sheep numerous times than skin it once. I would actually back getting rid of 200bb tables or even having highest buy in at 50bb for sake of the long term good of the game. However, 10bb games are ridiculous. Posted by ajs4385
Award for most boring and deluded forum member ever in the history of internet forums?
These games are all about increasing rake and lowering skill edges. I honestly cant believe some regs are falling for it. Cant you all see how this is so bad for us. Im all for protecting fish, I would like to see buy in limited as its better to sheer a sheep numerous times than skin it once. I would actually back getting rid of 200bb tables or even having highest buy in at 50bb for sake of the long term good of the game. However, 10bb games are ridiculous. Posted by ajs4385
Welcome to my world ajs
I like purer forms of poker and over time...
I have witnessed MTTs go from freezouts to bounty hunters I have witnessed SNGs go from 6max to DYMs I have seen structures in both shortened and speed/turbo/hypers introduced
All those are better for recs and create more traffice so they stay.
Why do you delude yourself that it wont happen to cash and that you can whine and sky will drop them?
How many people (who have played them) does it take to keep saying they are beatable, and they do not stay 10bb for long, for you to believe you can play winning poker at them?
I have learned my lesson from resisting change in the past and I am getting in with the new trend from the beginning - by the time the cynics and the self-interested regs like you wake up and smell the coffee I'll have made plenty of cash and will have fine tuned my strategy. Wait too long before jumping in and I'll be the shark and you'll be the fish in my pool.
Others are right multi-table premium hand nits and bumhunters are killing the fun. These games bring the fun back, oh and just in case you missed it -they are beatable! No idea how long it will take to play 100,000 hands and prove it. I tried to see how many cash hands I had played over the last week and it only showed the last 500.
In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : Award for most boring and deluded forum member ever in the history of internet forums? Posted by alex1229
hey alex,i agree with what you say about the spin ups but there is no need for mild abuse to ajs i know he's a big boy and it probably doesn't bother him but your coming across as abit crass imo
ajs is a long time member of sky poker and doesn't deserve that nonsense even if you don't agree with what he says
In Response to Re: Spin up - no highlight at top of lobby : hey alex,i agree with what you say about the spin ups but there is no need for mild abuse to ajs i know he's a big boy and it probably doesn't bother him but your coming across as abit crass imo ajs is a long time member of sky poker and doesn't deserve that nonsense even if you don't agree with what he says Posted by stokefc
He's just rabbiting on boring & deluded isnt that offensive if its true. if you dont like the game dont play it. Instead he's insulting those who play it. Seriously give it a break already.
Alex do you seriously expect me not to say anything when Sky offers games that have higher rake and very little skill.
What have you ever achieved in poker? (not having a go, its a genuine question)
I just feel I am debating with people who have very little knowledge of the game.
These games are a very dangerous slippery slope and before we know it there will be no skill and no long term winners.
Also I do agree that when games do get deeper they are beatable, but how much rake has been paid to get to that point. I actually played a 2/4 game saturday night as there was about 500 quid of non reg money on the table. Plus 2/4 rake is actually not too bad as rake is capped to £1.80
Comments
Sounds like a fun tournament idea though. Spin-Up BH games starting with 10BB just to speed the KOs up even more. All the fun of spin-up with less incremental loss through the rake.
Spin Up games are fun for recreational player like myself
No doubt if they remain long enough they will be infested by the multi-tabling Set miners who currently inhabit the regulat NLHE cash games
Right now they're fun so I'll play them, when they cease to be fun, I'll stop easy as that
For those calling for their removal I suggest you do the same, if you dont like 'em dont play 'em, we'll try not to miss you too much
love as the title says please leave these highlighted ( now i've played few and made MONEY )
MANY THANKS SKY
What top players buy into games with 10bb?
Ok I got a challenge for you, play 100,000 hands on spin up tables and if you are in profit I will give you a grand.
I wonder what exscuses you will come up with why you wont take me up on this?
The filters are silly and need work IMO - it should just be Regular (NL+PL 6max+TV tables) , HU, Short-Stack (spin-up+capped), and maybe DEEP for TV tables if theyre not already under the regular filter
why on earth would you wanna filter for only Pot Limit+Capped
I honestly cant believe some regs are falling for it.
Cant you all see how this is so bad for us.
Im all for protecting fish, I would like to see buy in limited as its better to sheer a sheep numerous times than skin it once. I would actually back getting rid of 200bb tables or even having highest buy in at 50bb for sake of the long term good of the game. However, 10bb games are ridiculous.
100 hands per hour, per table. The 100k hands can be done soon enough by a regular grinder
It's only the Sky-high rake that I think makes it a challenge, if that was a bit lower then the games would be a win for all, more fun for recs, definitely beatable by regs.
Losing the 200bb buy-in tables though? Not a fan of that idea!
I like purer forms of poker and over time...
I have witnessed MTTs go from freezouts to bounty hunters
I have witnessed SNGs go from 6max to DYMs
I have seen structures in both shortened and speed/turbo/hypers introduced
All those are better for recs and create more traffice so they stay.
Why do you delude yourself that it wont happen to cash and that you can whine and sky will drop them?
How many people (who have played them) does it take to keep saying they are beatable, and they do not stay 10bb for long, for you to believe you can play winning poker at them?
I have learned my lesson from resisting change in the past and I am getting in with the new trend from the beginning - by the time the cynics and the self-interested regs like you wake up and smell the coffee I'll have made plenty of cash and will have fine tuned my strategy. Wait too long before jumping in and I'll be the shark and you'll be the fish in my pool.
Others are right multi-table premium hand nits and bumhunters are killing the fun. These games bring the fun back, oh and just in case you missed it -they are beatable! No idea how long it will take to play 100,000 hands and prove it. I tried to see how many cash hands I had played over the last week and it only showed the last 500.
Alex do you seriously expect me not to say anything when Sky offers games that have higher rake and very little skill.
What have you ever achieved in poker? (not having a go, its a genuine question)
I just feel I am debating with people who have very little knowledge of the game.
These games are a very dangerous slippery slope and before we know it there will be no skill and no long term winners.
Also I do agree that when games do get deeper they are beatable, but how much rake has been paid to get to that point. I actually played a 2/4 game saturday night as there was about 500 quid of non reg money on the table. Plus 2/4 rake is actually not too bad as rake is capped to £1.80