I am not a fan of "Trash Talk", this isn't MMA or heavyweight boxing. Not needed in what is supposed to be an intellectual pursuit as opposed to a physical confrontation.
Here is how to get a winning overpair to fold on the river, with class and without shouting at anyone.
I hope we can all agree that carrying on after the floor manager and TD intervened and gave warnings was wrong, whether we are pro or anti this level of table talk. They ruled he crossed a line which is good enough for me. given the size of the pot won it seems the punishment does not fit the crime.
Perhaps we should start a new thread? Derailing Barny's excellent work here.
PS Still rooting for Team GB whatever I may think of that hand.
I am not a fan of "Trash Talk", this isn't MMA or heavyweight boxing. Not needed in what is supposed to be an intellectual pursuit as opposed to a physical confrontation. Here is how to get a winning overpair to fold on the river, with class and without shouting at anyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boD1cbSQQAw I hope we can all agree that carrying on after the floor manager and TD intervened and gave warnings was wrong, whether we are pro or anti this level of table talk. They ruled he crossed a line which is good enough for me. given the size of the pot won it seems the punishment does not fit the crime. Posted by Phantom66
I'm not sure if i read the same transcript as everyone else, but he simply told her to "fold her hand, in front of the cameras etc. It was heads up where friendly speech play is allowed, their was no indictation he was shouting at her or being aggressive. (if you knew the guy you'd know he smiles when he does it) Maybe she became intimidated - or a better word "nervous" but is this a case of men i.e. TD trying to protect a woman? What is he allowed to say? If we arent careful poker will be like football where everythings a ban. The same rules should apply to each player, Jamie Gold was aloud to do it, so I dont see why Kassouf shouldnt be able too. We dont have to like it. If he said the same thing to Phil Ivey, I dont think he would of got rattled like this lady did. If he was aggressive, or shouting then yes I think he should of got a serious penalty. Interesting topic, just my 2 cents worth.
Andrew Christoforou was finally involved in a notable and and it ended with him doubling up through Kakwan Lau. This leaves him in 10th spot. The hand was odd because both players revealed their hands on the turn despite Christoforou still having 320K chips behind. The floor and both players agreed to treat the situation as an "all in" and the hand played out, Lau was penalised one and for prematurely revealing his cards.
It's been a good level for Will Kassouf, he has now moved into third but still a long way behind chip leader Michael Ruane with Cliff Josephy (the only previous bracelet holder left) in between the two. So far Kassouf has had the clock called on him at least twice.
Tom Marchese is on an upward trend, now lying in 6th spot while James Obst is heading in the opposite direction, down from a healthy position overnight to 19th of the 22. One of the player below the Aussie is Matt Moss who seems to have had no luck at all so far on Day 7.
In Response to Re: The WSOP 2016 Thread : The same rules should apply to each player, Jamie Gold was aloud to do it, so I dont see why Kassouf shouldnt be able too. We dont have to like it. If he said the same thing to Phil Ivey, I dont think he would of got rattled like this lady did. If he was aggressive, or shouting then yes I think he should of got a serious penalty. Interesting topic, just my 2 cents worth. Posted by devil_tear
Severe new rules about "table talk" were introduced after Jamie Gold's year. They have been loosened again somewhat since.
I am not a fan of "Trash Talk", this isn't MMA or heavyweight boxing. Not needed in what is supposed to be an intellectual pursuit as opposed to a physical confrontation. Here is how to get a winning overpair to fold on the river, with class and without shouting at anyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boD1cbSQQAw I hope we can all agree that carrying on after the floor manager and TD intervened and gave warnings was wrong, whether we are pro or anti this level of table talk. They ruled he crossed a line which is good enough for me. given the size of the pot won it seems the punishment does not fit the crime. Perhaps we should start a new thread? Derailing Barny's excellent work here. PS Still rooting for Team GB whatever I may think of that hand. Posted by Phantom66
Great cllip with the good old DevilFish.
I respect everyone's views and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Probably said all I want to on it now, and agree, we should let Barney get on with what is an outstanding thread!
@devil_tear, I don't "know" the guy no, although I did look up some other clips before commenting.
The floor manager and TD were not reading a transcript and they deemed it worth warnings and a penalty. I am sure we will get to see the clip soon enough and be able to judge for ourselves.
I too have nothing further to say on it (until the new thread when the video is out)
I think a transcript is somewhat useless; more often than not it is how things are said as opposed to what is actually said (obv this doesn't apply to outright swearing or abuse and a transcript would at least highlight that).
Is there an argument that the situation could be manipulated by the other player in the hand? Not saying its the case here but food for thought.
We're down to the final 2 tables with 18 players left
22. Jeff Hakim. The Lebanese player had been quite quiet but went out wiith a bang. After having a 3-bet called by Fernando Pons pre-flop, both players checked a flop of AA8 with 2 hearts. The 5 of diamonds on the turn, Pons bet half pot, Hakim called. The Jack of hearts completed the board, Pons made a large bet, Hakim moved all in for not much more and was quickly called. Hakim showed trip aces which was not good enough as Pons had KQ of hearts for the nut flush.
21. Matthew Moss. The British contingent dropped to 2 as Moss, who had never threatend the upper echelons of the chip counts on Day 7 went out. He was a victim of Jared Bleznick's pocket aces when an open ended straight draw never got there. To complete a theme I had going all Series, Moss was the last chance for an alliteratively named player to win the ME.
20. Kakwat Lau. The final Asian player had been one of the big stacks at one point before tangling with Andrew Christoforou but had dribbled down to 10BB. He shoved from the cutoff with pocket 2s and was acccomodated by Vojtech Ruzicka who had A10. Two more tens on the flop were more than enough for Ruzicka to add all Lau's chips to his and to eliminate Lau.
19. Thomas Miller. In TM v TM action, Miller was eliminated just before the dinner break. Pons opened for 700K, Miller went over the top all in for 5.8m from the Small Blind with KJ and Tom Marchese 4-bet with AQ, Pons getting out of the way. Miller went ahead on a King-high flop but an Ace on the turn flipped things around and the river was a blank.
Dinner Break has now been taken with the redraw to two tables and we'll come back for Level 34, 200K/400K with a 50K ante
Approximate chip counts Main Table Seat 1: William Kassouf 22.6m Seat 2: Michael Niwinski 8.9m Seat 3: John Cynn 11.2m Seat 4: Andrew Christoforou 8.1m Seat 5: Joshua Weiss 11m Seat 6: Jerry Wong 22.4m Seat 7: Griffin Benger 17.4m Seat 8: Fernando Pons 27.5m Seat 9: Gordon Vayo 6.5m Table 2 Seat 1: Vojtech Ruzicka 30.7m Seat 2: Michael Ruane 35.1m Seat 3: James Obst 5.1m Seat 4: Mike Shin 21.2m Seat 5: Qui Nguyen 17.8m Seat 6: Tom Marchese 19.2m Seat 7: Jared Bleznick 6.8m Seat 8: Kenny Hallaert 25.7m Seat 9: Cliff Josephy 41.6m
Ok, so I wake up expecting play to be still going on and at least one and hoepfully two British players to be fighting for a spot in the November Nine. Well at least I got the first bit right as I type there are still 10 players left and we're one elimination way from the final table being set.
As for the second half, not so good
Half a dozen hands after the dinner break
18. Andrew Christoforou. With blinds at 200K/400K, Gordon Vayo opens top 900K. Will Kassouf calls and the action get to Christoforou who shoves his last 7m. Vayo re-shoves 13m and Kassouf realises he is not in a good spot an folds. The Brit has A8 suited but Vayo has pocket aces. The flop comes Q64 and with a turn of a K that's it for Christoforou before the river is even dealt. He takes home $338K
17. Seven hands later we lose the final GB player, Will Kassouf. In a hand full of verbals (there's a surprise) Griffin Benger raised. Kassouf 3-bet, Benger countered with a 4-bet before after a long dwellage Kassouf 5-bet shoved. Benger quickly called and he too had the aces, Kassouf the Kings. The flop comes out 10-high and neither the turn and river help Kassouf and the 27million pot slides over to the Canadian. No Brit at the final table again this year.
16. On the other table, Jared Bleznick was knocked out by Kenny Hallaert. Bleznick's K10 took the lead on the flop with a 10 but the Belgian's AJ went back in front as a Jack came on the turn.
With a pay jump to $427K at 15 players, we then lost the next two in successive hands on Table 2
14. Tom Marchese. Both Marchese and Qui Nguyen had clubs - Marchese the J10 and Nguyen the AK. You can probably guess what happened next - a back door flush comes, Marchese shoves and it probably took Nguyen less than a millisecond to call. Result - he goes over 100 BB and Marchese departs stage left.
13. James Obst had started the day in great shape but had been drifting downwards until here when he had about 11BB left. He shoved with pocket fives but Nguyen used some of his newly increased stack to call when he found pocket tens. The board was all low, Obst did have a straight draw on the river but it never materialised and the Aussie leaves with his 8th cash of the series
12. It took only five more ands before the one-man demolition man Qui Nguyen to do it again. He had to think a little about this one though. It was the last hand before a break and a three-man hand between Vojtech Ruzicka, Mike Shin and Nguyen. Shin 4-bet jammed for 14m, and it took several minutes for Nguyen to call, and a second or two for Ruzicka to fold. Shin had AK, Nguyen pocket Queens and Shin never found any card to help him, in fact to emphaise the win, Nguyen setted up on the river.
Hand-for-hand play started at 11 players after the organisers deemed that too much stalling was going on, and they also removed the option for players to call the clock, the floor would do that if necessary.
11th place was worth $650K and with the November Nine so close it was getting very tense.
11. Gordon Vayo had been picking up a number of small and medium sized pots to the point where he was probably second in chips to Nguyen. John Cynn on the other hand hadn't won a hand in a while. He was down to 4m chips and pushed them all over the line from middle position, Vayo called from the Big Blind. To increase the tension they had to wait for the action on the other table to complete before turning their hands over, Cynn had two live cards with Q10 against Vayo's KJ. The flop left us more or less where we were - KQ3 gave both players a pair but Vayo still in front. Neither an Ace on the turn or a 6 on the river was any help and Cynn was out of there.
Basiclly they're just waiting for Weiss to get a hand and shove and see how it falls. There has been one hand that got played out where Josephy won a few off Benger but it's been mostly one raise taking it. Weiss now down to 2.2m so it shouldn't be long now before he doubles up or goes home. 10th place gets $650K and all the are guaranteed seven figure scores so this not only the November Nine bubble but a $350K ladder spot.
The next two short stacks, Pons and Wong, are understandibly sitting on their hands. Pons hasn't played any of the first 16 hands, Wong just the one when he raised an unopened pot on the button to no defence from the blinds
Weiss found a hand and moved in his last 850K and was looked up by both the blinds. No further action between the blinds occured as they checked it down
The board was J-7-3-5-4.
Weiss showed first - Ace-8 Gordon Vayo showed Q-7 for a pair of sevens which was good enough to KO Weiss and set the November Nine Michael Ruane tables J-5 for two pair to wn the pot.
So that's it, that's all the action until the end of October.
I'll return later for a review of the nine players who have made the biggest FT of them all.
Take a bow sir well played I will need to find something else to read with my morning coffee the amount of time and effort you put into this is second to none thanks
Comments
Andrew Christoforou was finally involved in a notable and and it ended with him doubling up through Kakwan Lau. This leaves him in 10th spot. The hand was odd because both players revealed their hands on the turn despite Christoforou still having 320K chips behind. The floor and both players agreed to treat the situation as an "all in" and the hand played out, Lau was penalised one and for prematurely revealing his cards.
It's been a good level for Will Kassouf, he has now moved into third but still a long way behind chip leader Michael Ruane with Cliff Josephy (the only previous bracelet holder left) in between the two. So far Kassouf has had the clock called on him at least twice.
Tom Marchese is on an upward trend, now lying in 6th spot while James Obst is heading in the opposite direction, down from a healthy position overnight to 19th of the 22. One of the player below the Aussie is Matt Moss who seems to have had no luck at all so far on Day 7.
We're down to the final 2 tables with 18 players left
22. Jeff Hakim. The Lebanese player had been quite quiet but went out wiith a bang. After having a 3-bet called by Fernando Pons pre-flop, both players checked a flop of AA8 with 2 hearts. The 5 of diamonds on the turn, Pons bet half pot, Hakim called. The Jack of hearts completed the board, Pons made a large bet, Hakim moved all in for not much more and was quickly called. Hakim showed trip aces which was not good enough as Pons had KQ of hearts for the nut flush.
21. Matthew Moss. The British contingent dropped to 2 as Moss, who had never threatend the upper echelons of the chip counts on Day 7 went out. He was a victim of Jared Bleznick's pocket aces when an open ended straight draw never got there. To complete a theme I had going all Series, Moss was the last chance for an alliteratively named player to win the ME.
20. Kakwat Lau. The final Asian player had been one of the big stacks at one point before tangling with Andrew Christoforou but had dribbled down to 10BB. He shoved from the cutoff with pocket 2s and was acccomodated by Vojtech Ruzicka who had A10. Two more tens on the flop were more than enough for Ruzicka to add all Lau's chips to his and to eliminate Lau.
19. Thomas Miller. In TM v TM action, Miller was eliminated just before the dinner break. Pons opened for 700K, Miller went over the top all in for 5.8m from the Small Blind with KJ and Tom Marchese 4-bet with AQ, Pons getting out of the way. Miller went ahead on a King-high flop but an Ace on the turn flipped things around and the river was a blank.
Dinner Break has now been taken with the redraw to two tables and we'll come back for Level 34, 200K/400K with a 50K ante
Approximate chip counts
Main Table
Seat 1: William Kassouf 22.6m
Seat 2: Michael Niwinski 8.9m
Seat 3: John Cynn 11.2m
Seat 4: Andrew Christoforou 8.1m
Seat 5: Joshua Weiss 11m
Seat 6: Jerry Wong 22.4m
Seat 7: Griffin Benger 17.4m
Seat 8: Fernando Pons 27.5m
Seat 9: Gordon Vayo 6.5m Table 2
Seat 1: Vojtech Ruzicka 30.7m
Seat 2: Michael Ruane 35.1m
Seat 3: James Obst 5.1m
Seat 4: Mike Shin 21.2m
Seat 5: Qui Nguyen 17.8m
Seat 6: Tom Marchese 19.2m
Seat 7: Jared Bleznick 6.8m
Seat 8: Kenny Hallaert 25.7m
Seat 9: Cliff Josephy 41.6m
As for the second half, not so good
Half a dozen hands after the dinner break
18. Andrew Christoforou. With blinds at 200K/400K, Gordon Vayo opens top 900K. Will Kassouf calls and the action get to Christoforou who shoves his last 7m. Vayo re-shoves 13m and Kassouf realises he is not in a good spot an folds. The Brit has A8 suited but Vayo has pocket aces. The flop comes Q64 and with a turn of a K that's it for Christoforou before the river is even dealt. He takes home $338K
17. Seven hands later we lose the final GB player, Will Kassouf. In a hand full of verbals (there's a surprise) Griffin Benger raised. Kassouf 3-bet, Benger countered with a 4-bet before after a long dwellage Kassouf 5-bet shoved. Benger quickly called and he too had the aces, Kassouf the Kings. The flop comes out 10-high and neither the turn and river help Kassouf and the 27million pot slides over to the Canadian. No Brit at the final table again this year.
16. On the other table, Jared Bleznick was knocked out by Kenny Hallaert. Bleznick's K10 took the lead on the flop with a 10 but the Belgian's AJ went back in front as a Jack came on the turn.
14. Tom Marchese. Both Marchese and Qui Nguyen had clubs - Marchese the J10 and Nguyen the AK. You can probably guess what happened next - a back door flush comes, Marchese shoves and it probably took Nguyen less than a millisecond to call. Result - he goes over 100 BB and Marchese departs stage left.
13. James Obst had started the day in great shape but had been drifting downwards until here when he had about 11BB left. He shoved with pocket fives but Nguyen used some of his newly increased stack to call when he found pocket tens. The board was all low, Obst did have a straight draw on the river but it never materialised and the Aussie leaves with his 8th cash of the series
12. It took only five more ands before the one-man demolition man Qui Nguyen to do it again. He had to think a little about this one though. It was the last hand before a break and a three-man hand between Vojtech Ruzicka, Mike Shin and Nguyen. Shin 4-bet jammed for 14m, and it took several minutes for Nguyen to call, and a second or two for Ruzicka to fold. Shin had AK, Nguyen pocket Queens and Shin never found any card to help him, in fact to emphaise the win, Nguyen setted up on the river.
Hand-for-hand play started at 11 players after the organisers deemed that too much stalling was going on, and they also removed the option for players to call the clock, the floor would do that if necessary.
11th place was worth $650K and with the November Nine so close it was getting very tense.
11. Gordon Vayo had been picking up a number of small and medium sized pots to the point where he was probably second in chips to Nguyen. John Cynn on the other hand hadn't won a hand in a while. He was down to 4m chips and pushed them all over the line from middle position, Vayo called from the Big Blind. To increase the tension they had to wait for the action on the other table to complete before turning their hands over, Cynn had two live cards with Q10 against Vayo's KJ. The flop left us more or less where we were - KQ3 gave both players a pair but Vayo still in front. Neither an Ace on the turn or a 6 on the river was any help and Cynn was out of there.
15. Michael Niwinski
I'll try and find out the details later
Seat 1: Joshua Weiss - 3,700,000 (7 bb)
Seat 2: Griffin Benger - 38,825,000 (77 bb)
Seat 3: Vojtech Ruzicka - 27,750,000 (55 bb)
Seat 4: Fernando Pons - 9,000,000 (18 bb)
Seat 5: Qui Nguyen - 68,125,000 (136 bb)
Seat 6: Cliff Josephy - 61,000,000 (122 bb)
Seat 7: Michael Ruane - 30,200,000 (60 bb)
Seat 8: Gordon Vayo - 47,225,000 (94 bb)
Seat 9: Kenny Hallaert - 39,725,000 (80 bb)
Seat 10: Jerry Wong - 11,025,000 (22 bb)
Basiclly they're just waiting for Weiss to get a hand and shove and see how it falls. There has been one hand that got played out where Josephy won a few off Benger but it's been mostly one raise taking it. Weiss now down to 2.2m so it shouldn't be long now before he doubles up or goes home. 10th place gets $650K and all the are guaranteed seven figure scores so this not only the November Nine bubble but a $350K ladder spot.
He needs some of my Barnacle skills.
The board was J-7-3-5-4.
Weiss showed first - Ace-8
Gordon Vayo showed Q-7 for a pair of sevens which was good enough to KO Weiss and set the November Nine
Michael Ruane tables J-5 for two pair to wn the pot.
So that's it, that's all the action until the end of October.
I'll return later for a review of the nine players who have made the biggest FT of them all.
excellent work again fchd. thank you.