This was from CxE1, who says he rarely posts here - which is a great shame, as his Posts are always most welcome.
I'm not sure I'd agree that is "paltry".
For Viva Las Vegas this year, we sent 5 @ £10,000 & 40 @ £3,000, if my memory is correct. That's £170,000, & for a site of this size, it needs 3 months to qualify that many. For Punta Cana we sent 25 @ £3,500, so that's another near £90,000. So over quarter of a milly in total. I'd say for a site the size of Sky Poker, they re punching well above their weight.
How many did Party, Paddy, Ladbrokes, Grosvenor etc send to the WSOP?
So will there be any more, or other "Live Events" with Sky Poker?
I've no idea, but I am party to their thinking on this, & they ARE trying to organise Live Events.
Around a year ago I was tasked to see if we could get a few SPT's organised. Just 1 or 2 per year. We got very close to agreeing to do it, but an obstacle arose, & it got put back down the list.
Much more recently - in September & October in fact - I was tasked with helping to find an Event for early Spring. I submitted a lengthy Report, & there was not a suitable UK venue, none that was acceptable. My report included 14 chains or Casinos in England, Wales & Ireland. Note that in Northern Ireland & the RoI, Live Poker is "un-regulated" & Sky Poker have some discomfort around that.
So we looked overseas, & specifically at Dublin, Cork, Helsinki, Barcelona, Vienna, & a few others. Holland, which was mentioned earlier in the thread, (Master Classics etc) was not included as it has Compliance & Regulatory obstacles, but we are pushing back on those.
The idea was to do this in Jan, or early Feb latest, but I think we are out of time now. Any later is no good, as (I hope, fingers crossed) they will need to be qualifying for Viva Las Vegas by then anyway. After I submitted the Report, I got a bit busy with Punta Cana & UKOPS, so it sort of went off my radar, so I actually don't know what was decided.
So there it I - I hope that helps explain that it is not quite as simple as some of us may think.
If I had to bet on whether they would do a Live Event in the next year (excluding Viva Las Vegas & Punta Cana) I'd have a small wager on "yes", assuming the price was right. I'd take 5/4 I think.
One positive is that the thread demonstrates that the Live Packages Sky Poker DO run are done really well. I'd confidently say they do them better than any other site. So no wonder players hanker for more.
Good afternoon. There are always many different ways of looking at the same data and analysing it. Let me start with the personal and therefore selfish view. I, along with George, enjoy live events at home and abroad. The sats structure at sky is very good, and while waiting for Vegas i will look and play elsewhere to qualify. Of course if you play elsewhere for one thing then you invariably end up playing other types of games.
While you make a strong case for the 2 live events abroad, it should be noted for a uk site to have zero live events in uk is bordering on the "unthinkable" and "unforgivable", particularly as sky is bigger than party in uk.
The stated reasons for why you cannot get involved in the mentioned tours and venues seems a reasonable argument.I would analyse that as sky having a lack of foresight or vision in previous years thus allowing competitors to take a strategic advantage in its poker marketplace,particularly its core maket in the uk.
Going forward, Sky needs to quickly resolve whether it wants to go it alone or requires a partner to make better strategic decisions.
I wish you well in your hunt for more live events.
Sir Tikay, Good afternoon. There are always many different ways of looking at the same data and analysing it. Let me start with the personal and therefore selfish view. I, along with George, enjoy live events at home and abroad. The sats structure at sky is very good, and while waiting for Vegas i will look and play elsewhere to qualify. Of course if you play elsewhere for one thing then you invariably end up playing other types of games. While you make a strong case for the 2 live events abroad, it should be noted for a uk site to have zero live events in uk is bordering on the "unthinkable" and "unforgivable", particularly as sky is bigger than party in uk. The stated reasons for why you cannot get involved in the mentioned tours and venues seems a reasonable argument.I would analyse that as sky having a lack of foresight or vision in previous years thus allowing competitors to take a strategic advantage in its poker marketplace,particularly its core maket in the uk. Going forward, Sky needs to quickly resolve whether it wants to go it alone or requires a partner to make better strategic decisions. I wish you well in your hunt for more live events. Posted by CxE1
Totally agree.
Sky's rivals are looking to partner with casinos-Sky should be doing the same. As an example, Aspers Stratford has (1) a short-term arrangement with 888; and (2) a "Sky bar"-what's not to like?
Must admit I really used to enjoy the live SPTs run by Sky poker - and have very fond memories of my first one which happened to be the Dublin one. I'd never met any Sky players up until then (with the exception of "meeting" them in the virutal chat room). Met so many fabulous people and was really looked after by Trips (Ireneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) even though she didn't know me from Adam lol.
As regards the SPTs being loss leaders - why is this so easily assumed to be the case? Last SPT I went to at Birmingham was a £220 buy in I think - being £200 tourney fee and £20 rake/entrance fee. Seem to remember lots of satellites for it - with the associated rake attached to each satellite. If 500 people played it (I honestly can't remember the number of players) then that would be £10,000 of rake from tourney entries alone not including rake from all the satellites. Would it really cost in excess of this to rent the casino for 2 days? It might well do - I honestly have no idea - but I'd be surprised.
The heart of Sky is the community for me - the poker games themselves come a very low second.
Even 2 years ago the Sky regs themselves organised a "mini meet up" in Milton Keynes. It was very well attended and very much enjoyed. If the Sky regs who are amateurs at arranging these can manage it - why can't Sky?
Must admit I really used to enjoy the live SPTs run by Sky poker - and have very fond memories of my first one which happened to be the Dublin one. I'd never met any Sky players up until then (with the exception of "meeting" them in the virutal chat room). Met so many fabulous people and was really looked after by Trips (Ireneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) even though she didn't know me from Adam lol. As regards the SPTs being loss leaders - why is this so easily assumed to be the case? Last SPT I went to at Birmingham was a £220 buy in I think - being £200 tourney fee and £20 rake/entrance fee. Seem to remember lots of satellites for it - with the associated rake attached to each satellite. If 500 people played it (I honestly can't remember the number of players) then that would be £10,000 of rake from tourney entries alone not including rake from all the satellites. Would it really cost in excess of this to rent the casino for 2 days? It might well do - I honestly have no idea - but I'd be surprised. The heart of Sky is the community for me - the poker games themselves come a very low second. Even 2 years ago the Sky regs themselves organised a "mini meet up" in Milton Keynes. It was very well attended and very much enjoyed. If the Sky regs who are amateurs at arranging these can manage it - why can't Sky? Posted by IrishRose
OMG Was Milton Keynes really 2 years ago? Met loads of sky regs for the first time was a great laugh and good fun. Sorry little Matty, I know you will never forgive me for ko'ing you out first. I really didn't know what I was doing, still don't. But was a fantastic event.
Must admit I really used to enjoy the live SPTs run by Sky poker - and have very fond memories of my first one which happened to be the Dublin one. I'd never met any Sky players up until then (with the exception of "meeting" them in the virutal chat room). Met so many fabulous people and was really looked after by Trips (Ireneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) even though she didn't know me from Adam lol. As regards the SPTs being loss leaders - why is this so easily assumed to be the case? Last SPT I went to at Birmingham was a £220 buy in I think - being £200 tourney fee and £20 rake/entrance fee. Seem to remember lots of satellites for it - with the associated rake attached to each satellite. If 500 people played it (I honestly can't remember the number of players) then that would be £10,000 of rake from tourney entries alone not including rake from all the satellites. Would it really cost in excess of this to rent the casino for 2 days? It might well do - I honestly have no idea - but I'd be surprised. The heart of Sky is the community for me - the poker games themselves come a very low second. Even 2 years ago the Sky regs themselves organised a "mini meet up" in Milton Keynes. It was very well attended and very much enjoyed. If the Sky regs who are amateurs at arranging these can manage it - why can't Sky? Posted by IrishRose
Oh my Rose, totally agree with you SPT's were great fun. I remember our first meeting at Dublin, what a great time, fingers crossed that there will be more.
What about charging a little extra rake say 200 plus 30 rake might help cover costs, another Dublin would be great Posted by stuarty117
Hi Stu,
The matter is not cost related, & I never said it was. We could debate whether it is cost effective - a different thing altogether - but it's not easy, as the perceived benefits are intangible & cannot be measured accurately.
Dublin was great fun, yes, but Sky Poker received more complaints about that particular event than any other SPT, as alcohol was not permitted in the card room, which upset a goodly few.
We looked after Oynutter & his Lady partner, as I recall, he had been unwell for some time.
Rather fittingly, as it was his original home town, Thewy won it, & Aussie (Rob) was 12th.
Must admit I really used to enjoy the live SPTs run by Sky poker - and have very fond memories of my first one which happened to be the Dublin one. I'd never met any Sky players up until then (with the exception of "meeting" them in the virutal chat room). Met so many fabulous people and was really looked after by Trips (Ireneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) even though she didn't know me from Adam lol. As regards the SPTs being loss leaders - why is this so easily assumed to be the case? Last SPT I went to at Birmingham was a £220 buy in I think - being £200 tourney fee and £20 rake/entrance fee. Seem to remember lots of satellites for it - with the associated rake attached to each satellite. If 500 people played it (I honestly can't remember the number of players) then that would be £10,000 of rake from tourney entries alone not including rake from all the satellites. Would it really cost in excess of this to rent the casino for 2 days? It might well do - I honestly have no idea - but I'd be surprised. The heart of Sky is the community for me - the poker games themselves come a very low second. Even 2 years ago the Sky regs themselves organised a "mini meet up" in Milton Keynes. It was very well attended and very much enjoyed. If the Sky regs who are amateurs at arranging these can manage it - why can't Sky? Posted by IrishRose
Morning Rose,
You may have assumed it was a "loss leader" but I never stated it was a loss leader or made any such assumption.
£220 entry, 500 runners & £10,000 in reg fees? Again, I never said it was a decision based on cost, or was a loss leader, but the numbers you quote are slightly awry.
It was £110 entry, not £220, had 205 entries, not 500, & so, in theory, Reg fees totalled £2,050, not £10,000.
In fact, 40 seats were allocated to the venue, so Sky Poker received no reg fee on those, & (approx) 20 seats were given away in Freerolls. So the income to Sky Poker was in the region of £1,450, minus the cost of the seats given away. That is rather less than the figure of £10,000 you suggest. The Venue charged Sky Poker £10 per entrant (10% reg fee) , so Sky Poker never saw a penny of the Reg Fees paid by Sky Poker players, it all went to the venue, therefore the income to Sky Poker, after allowing for Freebies, was negative.
So it would most certainly have cost Sky Poker a good few bob, however, as I have stated repeatedly, the SPT decisions are not cost related, it's more about acceptable venues, strategic decisions, resource, & on balance, how best Sky Poker look after their players & "Community".
It's my view that the way players are looked after in Las Vegas & Punta Cana, & on this Forum (Free to Enter Fun Comps - we ran them daily during UKOPS for example, Daily UKOPS Blogs etc) suggests to me Sky Poker do value their players greatly, even though you may disagree. I don't know any other Online Poker sites that do these things, do you?
Crikey..... I thought I outlined the situation fairly & honestly yesterday. Try again..... Posted by Tikay10
I can understand your frustration but I think that maybe you should look at this and other similar threads from a different angle.
The fact that you see so many posts about Sky live events should be taken as a compliment to yourself and the rest of the Sky team. The Spts and UKPCs were brilliant. I bet you'd struggle to find anyone who came away from them having not enjoyed the experience. Many solid friendships were formed at these events. Online poker can be pretty lonely and I'm sure that there are plenty who came to Sky late who are envious that they never got the chance.
It's a shame that it looks as though it may not be possible to resurrect them.
Must admit I really used to enjoy the live SPTs run by Sky poker - and have very fond memories of my first one which happened to be the Dublin one. I'd never met any Sky players up until then (with the exception of "meeting" them in the virutal chat room). Met so many fabulous people and was really looked after by Trips (Ireneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) even though she didn't know me from Adam lol. As regards the SPTs being loss leaders - why is this so easily assumed to be the case? Last SPT I went to at Birmingham was a £220 buy in I think - being £200 tourney fee and £20 rake/entrance fee. Seem to remember lots of satellites for it - with the associated rake attached to each satellite. If 500 people played it (I honestly can't remember the number of players) then that would be £10,000 of rake from tourney entries alone not including rake from all the satellites. Would it really cost in excess of this to rent the casino for 2 days? It might well do - I honestly have no idea - but I'd be surprised. The heart of Sky is the community for me - the poker games themselves come a very low second. Even 2 years ago the Sky regs themselves organised a "mini meet up" in Milton Keynes. It was very well attended and very much enjoyed. If the Sky regs who are amateurs at arranging these can manage it - why can't Sky? Posted by IrishRose
I really don't know how to answer that Rose.....
I have tried to explain in great detail in my previous replies why Sky Poker have chosen, for the past few years, not to run SPT's. If they were so minded, I daresay they could & would. "Amateurs" could arrange it, I could arrange it, Sky Poker could if they so wished but we all have different agenda's, don't you see?
Sky Poker have managed something like 40 "Live Events" for their players (MasterClass, SPUKT, SPT, UKPC, VLV & Punta Cana) & I like to think have done them rather well. So well in fact that the players continually hanker for more, which tends to support that view. The Business, however, is best placed to decide how they look after players. At present, it is clearly their view that they do it in other ways.
As I stated before, the book is not closed on SPT's, they may or may not return.
I get that they are popular, just as rake free poker be popular, but that would not necessarily make it a good business case, would it?
Comments
"2 live events per year is paltry"
This was from CxE1, who says he rarely posts here - which is a great shame, as his Posts are always most welcome.
I'm not sure I'd agree that is "paltry".
For Viva Las Vegas this year, we sent 5 @ £10,000 & 40 @ £3,000, if my memory is correct. That's £170,000, & for a site of this size, it needs 3 months to qualify that many. For Punta Cana we sent 25 @ £3,500, so that's another near £90,000. So over quarter of a milly in total. I'd say for a site the size of Sky Poker, they re punching well above their weight.
How many did Party, Paddy, Ladbrokes, Grosvenor etc send to the WSOP?
Sometimes less is more.
However.....(more follows).
Wanna job?
So will there be any more, or other "Live Events" with Sky Poker?
I've no idea, but I am party to their thinking on this, & they ARE trying to organise Live Events.
Around a year ago I was tasked to see if we could get a few SPT's organised. Just 1 or 2 per year. We got very close to agreeing to do it, but an obstacle arose, & it got put back down the list.
Much more recently - in September & October in fact - I was tasked with helping to find an Event for early Spring. I submitted a lengthy Report, & there was not a suitable UK venue, none that was acceptable. My report included 14 chains or Casinos in England, Wales & Ireland. Note that in Northern Ireland & the RoI, Live Poker is "un-regulated" & Sky Poker have some discomfort around that.
So we looked overseas, & specifically at Dublin, Cork, Helsinki, Barcelona, Vienna, & a few others. Holland, which was mentioned earlier in the thread, (Master Classics etc) was not included as it has Compliance & Regulatory obstacles, but we are pushing back on those.
The idea was to do this in Jan, or early Feb latest, but I think we are out of time now. Any later is no good, as (I hope, fingers crossed) they will need to be qualifying for Viva Las Vegas by then anyway. After I submitted the Report, I got a bit busy with Punta Cana & UKOPS, so it sort of went off my radar, so I actually don't know what was decided.
So there it I - I hope that helps explain that it is not quite as simple as some of us may think.
If I had to bet on whether they would do a Live Event in the next year (excluding Viva Las Vegas & Punta Cana) I'd have a small wager on "yes", assuming the price was right. I'd take 5/4 I think.
One positive is that the thread demonstrates that the Live Packages Sky Poker DO run are done really well. I'd confidently say they do them better than any other site. So no wonder players hanker for more.
Sky's rivals are looking to partner with casinos-Sky should be doing the same. As an example, Aspers Stratford has (1) a short-term arrangement with 888; and (2) a "Sky bar"-what's not to like?
Crikey.....
I thought I outlined the situation fairly & honestly yesterday. Try again.....
The matter is not cost related, & I never said it was. We could debate whether it is cost effective - a different thing altogether - but it's not easy, as the perceived benefits are intangible & cannot be measured accurately.
Dublin was great fun, yes, but Sky Poker received more complaints about that particular event than any other SPT, as alcohol was not permitted in the card room, which upset a goodly few.
We looked after Oynutter & his Lady partner, as I recall, he had been unwell for some time.
Rather fittingly, as it was his original home town, Thewy won it, & Aussie (Rob) was 12th.
You may have assumed it was a "loss leader" but I never stated it was a loss leader or made any such assumption.
£220 entry, 500 runners & £10,000 in reg fees? Again, I never said it was a decision based on cost, or was a loss leader, but the numbers you quote are slightly awry.
It was £110 entry, not £220, had 205 entries, not 500, & so, in theory, Reg fees totalled £2,050, not £10,000.
In fact, 40 seats were allocated to the venue, so Sky Poker received no reg fee on those, & (approx) 20 seats were given away in Freerolls. So the income to Sky Poker was in the region of £1,450, minus the cost of the seats given away. That is rather less than the figure of £10,000 you suggest. The Venue charged Sky Poker £10 per entrant (10% reg fee) , so Sky Poker never saw a penny of the Reg Fees paid by Sky Poker players, it all went to the venue, therefore the income to Sky Poker, after allowing for Freebies, was negative.
So it would most certainly have cost Sky Poker a good few bob, however, as I have stated repeatedly, the SPT decisions are not cost related, it's more about acceptable venues, strategic decisions, resource, & on balance, how best Sky Poker look after their players & "Community".
It's my view that the way players are looked after in Las Vegas & Punta Cana, & on this Forum (Free to Enter Fun Comps - we ran them daily during UKOPS for example, Daily UKOPS Blogs etc) suggests to me Sky Poker do value their players greatly, even though you may disagree. I don't know any other Online Poker sites that do these things, do you?
I have tried to explain in great detail in my previous replies why Sky Poker have chosen, for the past few years, not to run SPT's. If they were so minded, I daresay they could & would. "Amateurs" could arrange it, I could arrange it, Sky Poker could if they so wished but we all have different agenda's, don't you see?
Sky Poker have managed something like 40 "Live Events" for their players (MasterClass, SPUKT, SPT, UKPC, VLV & Punta Cana) & I like to think have done them rather well. So well in fact that the players continually hanker for more, which tends to support that view. The Business, however, is best placed to decide how they look after players. At present, it is clearly their view that they do it in other ways.
As I stated before, the book is not closed on SPT's, they may or may not return.
I get that they are popular, just as rake free poker be popular, but that would not necessarily make it a good business case, would it?