In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : I can understand your frustration but I think that maybe you should look at this and other similar threads from a different angle. The fact that you see so many posts about Sky live events should be taken as a compliment to yourself and the rest of the Sky team. The Spts and UKPCs were brilliant. I bet you'd struggle to find anyone who came away from them having not enjoyed the experience. Many solid friendships were formed at these events. Online poker can be pretty lonely and I'm sure that there are plenty who came to Sky late who are envious that they never got the chance. It's a shame that it looks as though it may not be possible to resurrect them. SPT Vilamoura would be pretty cool Posted by Jac35
Hi Holiday Bloke,
Some of my frustration (& I'm sorry if it is visible in my replies) comes from seeing figures quoted which are wrong by 85% Paul, some of it that no matter how many times I repeat "it is not a cost based decision or a loss leader" people keep referring to the cost.
When you say it is a shame that it looks likely SPT's won't be resurrected, where did you get that info from? I explained earlier in the thread, they almost re-started earlier this year, & I think I shared that with you at the time.
They may, or may not return. I stated yesterday that I'd bet that Sky Poker will do something in the Live arena (apart from VLV & Punta Cana) quite soon, & I stick by that. I also detailed with great honesty what Sky Poker had been looking at doing. I sent them my views, then Punta Cana & UKOPS came along, so I really don't know what Sky Poker decided to do in the end. I suspect they still have plans to get back in the Live arena.
I misinterpreted this post. I took from it that it may not be possible.
"Much more recently - in September & October in fact - I was tasked with helping to find an Event for early Spring. I submitted a lengthy Report, & there was not a suitable UK venue, none that was acceptable. My report included 14 chains or Casinos in England, Wales & Ireland. Note that in Northern Ireland & the RoI, Live Poker is "un-regulated" & Sky Poker have some discomfort around that."
^^^^ That's what I based my "size and ties" post on too.
and this...
.but increasingly, DTD became plastered with PP branding, floors, walls, ceiling, inside, outside, even loo rolls, so it started to become a bit awkward.
Sky Poker don't really want to send players to "competitor sites" either.
Sir Tikay, Good afternoon. There are always many different ways of looking at the same data and analysing it. Let me start with the personal and therefore selfish view. I, along with George, enjoy live events at home and abroad. The sats structure at sky is very good, and while waiting for Vegas i will look and play elsewhere to qualify. Of course if you play elsewhere for one thing then you invariably end up playing other types of games. While you make a strong case for the 2 live events abroad, it should be noted for a uk site to have zero live events in uk is bordering on the "unthinkable" and "unforgivable", particularly as sky is bigger than party in uk. The stated reasons for why you cannot get involved in the mentioned tours and venues seems a reasonable argument.I would analyse that as sky having a lack of foresight or vision in previous years thus allowing competitors to take a strategic advantage in its poker marketplace,particularly its core maket in the uk. Going forward, Sky needs to quickly resolve whether it wants to go it alone or requires a partner to make better strategic decisions. I wish you well in your hunt for more live events. Posted by CxE1
Hi Vinny,
First up, I forgot to inquire if your health has improved since Punta Cana, where you were most unwell. FWIW, upon returning home I seemed to have contracted exactly the same thing, & I've been more unwell since Punta Cana than at any time in my entire life. I've not visited a GP or hospital since I was at school, or had a day off work "sick" in my entire working life - 54 years - but even I was nearly forced to seek medical help last week.
Anyway, I digress.
We shall have to agree to differ on "unthinkable & "unforgiveable" as to Live UK Events. The current business model continues to deliver robust growth.
I'd also disagree on "lack of vision & foresight" compared to our Competitors as not a single one of them can match the continued y-o-y growth (in a declining or flat market) of Sky Poker.
As to partnering a "Live" Casino, SB&G have their own Casino, & it is producing excellent results & y-o-y growth. It also needs to be borne in mind that when partnering with another Business, Sky Poker have to trust that Business to make good decisions, & be compliant in every way. Compliance is a huge factor these days.
So I'll ask you a question now, as you have a sound knowledge of Business.
In all this debate which seems to suggest this Business lacks vision, foresight, etc etc can you name a single mature Business in this sector - or any sector actually - which is producing the y-o-y growth that SB&G have?
I'm not giving away any secrets here - google is your friend - but SBG's revenues last year increased by 51%.
"Sky Betting & Gaming, the Leeds-based independent online gambling firm, has experienced continued growth across all divisions as it published its full year results for the year ending 30 June 2016. During this period, the online betting and gaming operator saw group revenues hit £373.6m, which is a 51% increase from last year’s £247.5m. This significant growth in revenue was spearheaded by SB&G’s sports betting revenue rising 64% to £214.1m. The firm’s gaming revenue also saw a 36% increase to £159.5m.In addition, SB&G managed to attract 31% more customers than last year as it now serves 1.95 million people. As a result, SB&G has now expanded its staff to a 818-strong team...."
As you well know, any new, small or start up can increase revenues by 51%, but in a mature, 12 year old business, not so much. It follows revenue growth which averaged 42% in each of the previous 4 years. Can you name any other Online Gaming Site which can match that?
If we break out poker, the revenue growth is less, (the market is not growing) but it has still grown every year for the past 4 or 5 years, despite some well documented handicaps.
So I have to reject "lack of vision", "lack of foresight", "unthinkable" or the desperate need to find a strategic partner, unless at the right time & on the right terms. SB&G are in the driving seat, not the competitors, as youll know if you read the Trade Press. Other businesses would like to partner SB&G, yes, & 3 well known UK facing Online Poker sites have approached Sky Poker to be part of the Sky Poker platform, on a B2B basis. (all were rejected).
Many of us - perhaps me included? - don't agree with some decisions, such as SPT's, but I don't think anyone can reasonably correlate that to SB&G lacking foresight or simply don't know what they are doing. That's almost like armchair football fans saying, for example, Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho have no idea what they are doing.
I doubt you & I will have a meeting of minds on this, but if you say things like "lack of vision" I'm going to have to respond.
I misinterpreted this post. I took from it that it may not be possible. "Much more recently - in September & October in fact - I was tasked with helping to find an Event for early Spring. I submitted a lengthy Report, & there was not a suitable UK venue, none that was acceptable. My report included 14 chains or Casinos in England, Wales & Ireland. Note that in Northern Ireland & the RoI, Live Poker is "un-regulated" & Sky Poker have some discomfort around that." Posted by Jac35
The key word there is "may".
I can think of several venues where Sky Poker could go.
For example, Rendezvous, Brighton, but it's at an extremity of the UK, can you imagine the howls of protest from those up North, or in Scotland?
SPT's & Live Events DO remain on the Table, as I have stated repeatedly.
^^^^ That's what I based my "size and ties" post on too. and this... . but increasingly, DTD became plastered with PP branding, floors, walls, ceiling, inside, outside, even loo rolls, so it started to become a bit awkward. Sky Poker don't really want to send players to "competitor sites" either. Posted by Phantom66
Correct, so Sky Poker will continue to look at what is both possible, desirable & acceptable.
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : Oh my Rose, totally agree with you SPT's were great fun. I remember our first meeting at Dublin, what a great time, fingers crossed that there will be more. xx Posted by Amarie
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : I can understand your frustration but I think that maybe you should look at this and other similar threads from a different angle. The fact that you see so many posts about Sky live events should be taken as a compliment to yourself and the rest of the Sky team. The Spts and UKPCs were brilliant. I bet you'd struggle to find anyone who came away from them having not enjoyed the experience. Many solid friendships were formed at these events. Online poker can be pretty lonely and I'm sure that there are plenty who came to Sky late who are envious that they never got the chance. It's a shame that it looks as though it may not be possible to resurrect them. SPT Vilamoura would be pretty cool Posted by Jac35
I'm not paying for Harry's christmas next year as well.
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : The key word there is "may". I can think of several venues where Sky Poker could go. For example, Rendezvous, Brighton, but it's at an extremity of the UK, can you imagine the howls of protest from those up North, or in Scotland? SPT's & Live Events DO remain on the Table, as I have stated repeatedly. Posted by Tikay10
I think the RENDEZVOUS in Brighton would be OK with most folk, not all, as a venue.If a tourney was in the Midlands, the north and south still have a long trot, where as the midlanders would have smiley faces. Dublin isnt exactly local is it? Players who want live action, as far as I can make out, will make the effort to travel.Take football supporters,they travel abroad for the ninety odd minutes play.If you needed to be somewhere, youre going to make the effort.DTD is central, but a long trot for many.There is no location in the UK that will suit all.
PS I saw tikays HUFA false start.Is getting A9off allin pre, classed as a weak hand or dumping?
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : I think the RENDEZVOUS in Brighton would be OK with most folk, not all, as a venue.If a tourney was in the Midlands, the north and south still have a long trot, where as the midlanders would have smiley faces. Dublin isnt exactly local is it? Players who want live action, as far as I can make out, will make the effort to travel.Take football supporters,they travel abroad for the ninety odd minutes play.If you needed to be somewhere, youre going to make the effort.DTD is central, but a long trot for many.There is no location in the UK that will suit all. PS I saw tikays HUFA false start.Is getting A9off allin pre, classed as a weak hand or dumping? Posted by chilling
Call it what you will. We here Heads Up, & I repeatedly typed in the chat box "mate, I don't have time to play this, I'm gonna move in repeatedly, if you have half a hand, call me".
And he kept folding, but eventually I lost the lot. I'm actually the world's worst HU player, so I generally lose anyway. I just did it quicker last night.
We held an SPT at Rendezvous Brighton, but were forced to balance it with one in Glasgow the same day. So the folks in middle England gave us grief even for that.
Peeps remember the good times we had - & we did - but forget the moans & groans we got every single time we announced an SPT Venue. Without a single exception, every time a new SPT venue was announced, the Forum was inundated with complaints.
The people in Ireland gave us grief for years as we had never held an event there, but when we did, all those in Mainland UK went off on one, "that's not fair, it is too far". Welcome to First World problems.
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers?: [QUOTE]New super casino opening in Leeds late 2016/early 2017, biggest casino north of Birmingham and Global Gaming Ventures (?) are behind it. I believe the cash games start from 2 shillings 5 shillings, with a maximum sit down of a penny farthing. Posted by hhyftrftdr
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : Call it what you will. We here Heads Up, & I repeatedly typed in the chat box "mate, I don't have time to play this, I'm gonna move in repeatedly, if you have half a hand, call me". And he kept folding, but eventually I lost the lot. I'm actually the world's worst HU player, so I generally lose anyway. I just did it quicker last night. We held an SPT at Rendezvous Brighton, but were forced to balance it with one in Glasgow the same day. So the folks in middle England gave us grief even for that. Peeps remember the good times we had - & we did - but forget the moans & groans we got every single time we announced an SPT Venue. Without a single exception, every time a new SPT venue was announced, the Forum was inundated with complaints. The people in Ireland gave us grief for years as we had never held an event there, but when we did, all those in Mainland UK went off on one, "that's not fair, it is too far". Welcome to First World problems. I kid you not. Posted by Tikay10
I caught the last four hands and can vouch for your typing in the chat.
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : GO AWAY Mother. xx Posted by Tikay10
Cheeky!
But on a serious note, one thing you must consider when thinking about any live event is that you will probably have the company of me (see now i know you're smiling) and even (wait for it)......(drum roll).....I may bring along....the wonderful...the beautiful.....Jamielou (yeay!)
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : Cheeky! But on a serious note, one thing you must consider when thinking about any live event is that you will probably have the company of me (see now i know you're smiling) and even (wait for it)......(drum roll).....I may bring along....the wonderful...the beautiful.....Jamielou (yeay!) xx Posted by Amarie
Ha, seriously nothing would make me happier than to hook up again with the Bury Family. Have you seen the Jake Cody VLogs? Worth a watch, very good they are.
And in case some doubt it, I loved the SPT's to bits.
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? : I can understand your frustration but I think that maybe you should look at this and other similar threads from a different angle. The fact that you see so many posts about Sky live events should be taken as a compliment to yourself and the rest of the Sky team. The Spts and UKPCs were brilliant. I bet you'd struggle to find anyone who came away from them having not enjoyed the experience. Many solid friendships were formed at these events. Online poker can be pretty lonely and I'm sure that there are plenty who came to Sky late who are envious that they never got the chance. It's a shame that it looks as though it may not be possible to resurrect them. SPT Vilamoura would be pretty cool Posted by Jac35
Pleased to hear that Paul, & yes, we put a lot of effort into ensuring folks had a great time. The fact that Sky Poker are not currently running them does not make them a poor Business though, as inferred in the thread, far from it.
Sky Poker, & as long as I remain here, me, will continue to try to do the impossible - please as many as possible.
In Response to Re: More live event qualifiers? :. Anyway, I digress. We shall have to agree to differ on "unthinkable & "unforgiveable" as to Live UK Events. The current business model continues to deliver robust growth. I'd also disagree on "lack of vision & foresight" compared to our Competitors as not a single one of them can match the continued y-o-y growth (in a declining or flat market) of Sky Poker. As to partnering a "Live" Casino, SB&G have their own Casino, & it is producing excellent results & y-o-y growth. It also needs to be borne in mind that when partnering with another Business, Sky Poker have to trust that Business to make good decisions, & be compliant in every way. Compliance is a huge factor these days. So I'll ask you a question now, as you have a sound knowledge of Business. In all this debate which seems to suggest this Business lacks vision, foresight, etc etc can you name a single mature Business in this sector - or any sector actually - which is producing the y-o-y growth that SB&G have? I'm not giving away any secrets here - google is your friend - but SBG's revenues last year increased by 51%. "Sky Betting & Gaming, the Leeds-based independent online gambling firm, has experienced continued growth across all divisions as it published its full year results for the year ending 30 June 2016. During this period, the online betting and gaming operator saw group revenues hit £373.6m, which is a 51% increase from last year’s £247.5m. This significant growth in revenue was spearheaded by SB&G’s sports betting revenue rising 64% to £214.1m. The firm’s gaming revenue also saw a 36% increase to £159.5m. In addition, SB&G managed to attract 31% more customers than last year as it now serves 1.95 million people. As a result, SB&G has now expanded its staff to a 818-strong team...." (Actually, that 818 is now in excess of 1,000). You can see that quote in full HERE As you well know, any new, small or start up can increase revenues by 51%, but in a mature, 12 year old business, not so much. It follows revenue growth which averaged 42% in each of the previous 4 years. Can you name any other Online Gaming Site which can match that? If we break out poker, the revenue growth is less, (the market is not growing) but it has still grown every year for the past 4 or 5 years, despite some well documented handicaps. So I have to reject "lack of vision", "lack of foresight", "unthinkable" or the desperate need to find a strategic partner, unless at the right time & on the right terms. SB&G are in the driving seat, not the competitors, as youll know if you read the Trade Press. Other businesses would like to partner SB&G, yes, & 3 well known UK facing Online Poker sites have approached Sky Poker to be part of the Sky Poker platform, on a B2B basis. (all were rejected). Many of us - perhaps me included? - don't agree with some decisions, such as SPT's, but I don't think anyone can reasonably correlate that to SB&G lacking foresight or simply don't know what they are doing. That's almost like armchair football fans saying, for example, Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho have no idea what they are doing. I doubt you & I will have a meeting of minds on this, but if you say things like "lack of vision" I'm going to have to respond. Posted by Tikay10
Hi Tikay,
Im a little better but not cured. Thank you for asking. I am afraid this illness lasts between 10 to 14 weeks. I suggest peppermint tea with honey, lemon and salt is as good as any medication.
Your defence of SB&G is stoic, robust and passionate. Im just not sure i attacked it. The topic was live events in a poker forum. I maintain my views in this narrow field of the overall business.
You do highlight a very important issue in the numbers. Poker is very small percentage of an overall business. The biggest part of the business is a growing market whilst poker is at best a low growth or no growth market place.Which is why its more important to fight your corner and shout louder. The market place is likely to change in the coming years to a high growth market and its vitally important for any business to position itself accordingly.
"desperate need of a strategic partner". That's a misrepresentation of what i said. I stated "quickly resolve". At final dinner in punta, Justin was clear to the table his preferred option moving forward was to seek a partner. My point being any business makes better decisions moving forward with clarity.
The football analogy is always funny. If it wasn't for the armchair fans giving their tuppence worth on a very regular basis, mr wenger and mourinho would not be enjoying a 10 million a year salary. A point you should raise when asking for a salary increase.
Hi Tikay, sorry to hear you have not been well, I hope this thread has not added to it ! get well soon as they say. I feel you have answered my question, and I am very pleased with everyone's input... this is where I feel Sky have one over the other sites.
Until the next SPT or Sky live event I shall just have to cash in some tourneys and use that as a buy in , ( as I told Lyonsbob to do with his great Sunday result .)
+1 to loving SPTs and UKPCs. I haven't been lucky enough to win a Punta Cana/VLV package yet but I'm sure that would be amazing too.
This isnt a 'rub', I've just been away from Sky/the forum for quite a long time so I don't know... are UKPCs/events happening at DTD out of the question now because of their link with Party?
I dunno if this casino/card room is even still open but iirc the very first SPT I ever went to was at a Les Croupiers in Cardiff, are they linked with anyonline sites? Although tbf, if my memory serves me well you'd probably struggle to get over 150 people in there.
I don't have a clue how you'd do it with all the restraints tbh or if it's even possible, but it would be great to have a few UK live events from Sky if is it pssible. I'll eagerly await word that one of those live events Tikay mentioned does go ahead and until then will have to give it a bash for Punta/VLV
New super casino opening in Leeds late 2016/early 2017, biggest casino north of Birmingham and Global Gaming Ventures (?) are behind it. I believe the cash games start from 2 shillings 5 shillings, with a maximum sit down of a penny farthing. Posted by hhyftrftdr
how folk take umbrage with you is a mystery. Hence force Mr.Chuckles.
Comments
Some of my frustration (& I'm sorry if it is visible in my replies) comes from seeing figures quoted which are wrong by 85% Paul, some of it that no matter how many times I repeat "it is not a cost based decision or a loss leader" people keep referring to the cost.
When you say it is a shame that it looks likely SPT's won't be resurrected, where did you get that info from? I explained earlier in the thread, they almost re-started earlier this year, & I think I shared that with you at the time.
They may, or may not return. I stated yesterday that I'd bet that Sky Poker will do something in the Live arena (apart from VLV & Punta Cana) quite soon, & I stick by that. I also detailed with great honesty what Sky Poker had been looking at doing. I sent them my views, then Punta Cana & UKOPS came along, so I really don't know what Sky Poker decided to do in the end. I suspect they still have plans to get back in the Live arena.
"Much more recently - in September & October in fact - I was tasked with helping to find an Event for early Spring. I submitted a lengthy Report, & there was not a suitable UK venue, none that was acceptable. My report included 14 chains or Casinos in England, Wales & Ireland. Note that in Northern Ireland & the RoI, Live Poker is "un-regulated" & Sky Poker have some discomfort around that."
Sky Poker don't really want to send players to "competitor sites" either.
First up, I forgot to inquire if your health has improved since Punta Cana, where you were most unwell. FWIW, upon returning home I seemed to have contracted exactly the same thing, & I've been more unwell since Punta Cana than at any time in my entire life. I've not visited a GP or hospital since I was at school, or had a day off work "sick" in my entire working life - 54 years - but even I was nearly forced to seek medical help last week.
Anyway, I digress.
We shall have to agree to differ on "unthinkable & "unforgiveable" as to Live UK Events. The current business model continues to deliver robust growth.
I'd also disagree on "lack of vision & foresight" compared to our Competitors as not a single one of them can match the continued y-o-y growth (in a declining or flat market) of Sky Poker.
As to partnering a "Live" Casino, SB&G have their own Casino, & it is producing excellent results & y-o-y growth. It also needs to be borne in mind that when partnering with another Business, Sky Poker have to trust that Business to make good decisions, & be compliant in every way. Compliance is a huge factor these days.
So I'll ask you a question now, as you have a sound knowledge of Business.
In all this debate which seems to suggest this Business lacks vision, foresight, etc etc can you name a single mature Business in this sector - or any sector actually - which is producing the y-o-y growth that SB&G have?
I'm not giving away any secrets here - google is your friend - but SBG's revenues last year increased by 51%.
"Sky Betting & Gaming, the Leeds-based independent online gambling firm, has experienced continued growth across all divisions as it published its full year results for the year ending 30 June 2016.
During this period, the online betting and gaming operator saw group revenues hit £373.6m, which is a 51% increase from last year’s £247.5m.
This significant growth in revenue was spearheaded by SB&G’s sports betting revenue rising 64% to £214.1m. The firm’s gaming revenue also saw a 36% increase to £159.5m.In addition, SB&G managed to attract 31% more customers than last year as it now serves 1.95 million people. As a result, SB&G has now expanded its staff to a 818-strong team...."
(Actually, that 818 is now in excess of 1,000).
You can see that quote in full HERE
As you well know, any new, small or start up can increase revenues by 51%, but in a mature, 12 year old business, not so much. It follows revenue growth which averaged 42% in each of the previous 4 years.
Can you name any other Online Gaming Site which can match that?
If we break out poker, the revenue growth is less, (the market is not growing) but it has still grown every year for the past 4 or 5 years, despite some well documented handicaps.
So I have to reject "lack of vision", "lack of foresight", "unthinkable" or the desperate need to find a strategic partner, unless at the right time & on the right terms. SB&G are in the driving seat, not the competitors, as youll know if you read the Trade Press. Other businesses would like to partner SB&G, yes, & 3 well known UK facing Online Poker sites have approached Sky Poker to be part of the Sky Poker platform, on a B2B basis. (all were rejected).
Many of us - perhaps me included? - don't agree with some decisions, such as SPT's, but I don't think anyone can reasonably correlate that to SB&G lacking foresight or simply don't know what they are doing. That's almost like armchair football fans saying, for example, Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho have no idea what they are doing.
I doubt you & I will have a meeting of minds on this, but if you say things like "lack of vision" I'm going to have to respond.
I can think of several venues where Sky Poker could go.
For example, Rendezvous, Brighton, but it's at an extremity of the UK, can you imagine the howls of protest from those up North, or in Scotland?
SPT's & Live Events DO remain on the Table, as I have stated repeatedly.
xx
And he kept folding, but eventually I lost the lot. I'm actually the world's worst HU player, so I generally lose anyway. I just did it quicker last night.
We held an SPT at Rendezvous Brighton, but were forced to balance it with one in Glasgow the same day. So the folks in middle England gave us grief even for that.
Peeps remember the good times we had - & we did - but forget the moans & groans we got every single time we announced an SPT Venue. Without a single exception, every time a new SPT venue was announced, the Forum was inundated with complaints.
The people in Ireland gave us grief for years as we had never held an event there, but when we did, all those in Mainland UK went off on one, "that's not fair, it is too far". Welcome to First World problems.
I kid you not.
[QUOTE]New super casino opening in Leeds late 2016/early 2017, biggest casino north of Birmingham and Global Gaming Ventures (?) are behind it. I believe the cash games start from 2 shillings 5 shillings, with a maximum sit down of a penny farthing.
Posted by hhyftrftdr
Sounds about right for Leeds.
And in case some doubt it, I loved the SPT's to bits.
Sky Poker, & as long as I remain here, me, will continue to try to do the impossible - please as many as possible.
get well soon as they say.
I feel you have answered my question, and I am very pleased with everyone's input...
this is where I feel Sky have one over the other sites.
Until the next SPT or Sky live event I shall just have to cash in some tourneys and use
that as a buy in , ( as I told Lyonsbob to do with his great Sunday result .)
I don't have a clue how you'd do it with all the restraints tbh or if it's even possible, but it would be great to have a few UK live events from Sky if is it pssible. I'll eagerly await word that one of those live events Tikay mentioned does go ahead and until then will have to give it a bash for Punta/VLV