ok but thought you said in earlier post we might look at it if it really big and why cover 60% in each leg we don't in jackpots . oh well as I said just a thought
ok but thought you said in earlier post we might look at it if it really big and why cover 60% in each leg we don't in jackpots . oh well as I said just a thought Posted by vaigret
We are not far off that in Jackpots, and do average /> 60% (of the betting market, not 60% of selections clearly) per leg. That is the whole premise of our strategy.
The three perm version was an adapted coverage option, but between the three we had > 60% of the betting market covered in most legs. I am not talking about covering 60% of the field in each leg, clearly that would be un-viable.
NB: For example a 4/7 shot ON IT'S OWN covers 57.3% of the betting market, assuming a bookmaker best price mark up of 10%. An Even money shot and a 3/1 shot combined cover 67.5% etc.
For further info, feel free to read the thread below as to how I work out the betting percentage covered.
ok Stand corrected and this is a Jackpot syndicate anyway so no problems I just thought a chance to win £650000 might be nice for a stake around what we have done last couple of days and their is a place divi which we picked up a few times when the Scoop syndicate was running, interest wained when I left to go on my boat . Sail le Vie
just like big value I suppose £650000 for 400 appears better than £400 for 10-20k
its the £2 stake that would be the problem plus the legs are all very hard races to predict. maybe 1 day if we get a few decent cashes we can vote to do the scoop but i think for now its a no go
ok Stand corrected and this is a Jackpot syndicate anyway so no problems I just thought a chance to win £650000 might be nice for a stake around what we have done last couple of days and their is a place divi which we picked up a few times when the Scoop syndicate was running, interest wained when I left to go on my boat . Sail le Vie just like big value I suppose £650000 for 400 appears better than £400 for 10-20k Posted by vaigret
IMO, It's the difference between having a wild punt and having a long term winning strategy (hopefully). I am going for the latter.
If we ever get a card/rollover/bankroll that allows us to adopt this same strategy for the SCOOP6, all well and good. But I can't see it really.
Maybe a separate SCOOP6 syndicate is something to consider further down the line, but tbh it would be for the more serious punter I think, as we'd need a very big kitty to adopt the same approach as we do for Jackpots, and that is what I would want to do.
Regarding the Place aspect of the SCOOP6, if you are considering this on a difficult card, we'd be better to just do a placepot, but no roll overs there obviously. Although I do think there is a way we can get an edge in placepots, but that's a discussion for another day.
Also with placepots you can do them for 10p lines, or 5p in store, so people can do their own really, no need for a syndicate really, other than the community aspect of it.
Anyhow for now, we will not be greedy and just keep to the Jackpots.
shouldn't have mentioned anything just saw £650000 and thought good idea but when I looked at fields I realised it was a no go. you would have to be extremely lucky to get it. However if it gets into the millions with smaller fields it might be worth looking at.
Not suggesting we do for the place part just it does help to get money back if youjust miss out. When the Scoop 6 syndicate was going, with not so much money/ imput/expertise as we are in this we twice got five out of six and got quite a few place dividends over the time it ran. So agree with comments above but would suggest it not ruled out completelyin exceptional circumstances.
shouldn't have mentioned anything just saw £650000 and thought good idea but when I looked at fields I realised it was a no go. you would have to be extremely lucky to get it. However if it gets into the millions with smaller fields it might be worth looking at. Not suggesting we do for the place part just it does help to get money back if youjust miss out. When the Scoop 6 syndicate was going, with not so much money/ imput/expertise as we are in this we twice got five out of six and got quite a few place dividends over the time it ran. So agree with comments above but would suggest it not ruled out completelyin exceptional circumstances. Posted by vaigret
Agreed, but it would need to be a very big roll over and comparatively uncompetitive card, scenarios that don't often happen together for the SCOOP 6. Unfortunately.
Although more likely to get a slightly easier card with the Friday Scoop 6 than the Saturday one. (Tomorrow is ultra tough mind)
In Response to Re: ** JACKPOT SYNDICATE - OFFICIAL THREAD **PLEASE FIND THE UPDATED LEDGER FOLLOWING ON FROM THE 11/05/17 RESULTS AT CHESTER ** SHARE DEALINGS ARE NOW FROZEN UNTIL 26TH MAY 2017 : Hi Dollie, as I alluded to in my reply to Bearace. I do not expect us to win very often (1 in 12 times), but I do expect the average dividend to be significantly higher than our recent cash, With this in mind, I propose to make a dividend when the share value exceeds £25. The dividend will be a multiple of £5 that will leave the share value between £7.50 and £12.50. Yes this could mean that the one off payments for new members or players that increase their stake is higher than their monthly amount going forward, but this is the lesser of the evils imo, and it also means I can do all that processing between 26th-29th of the month, ready for start of new betting month. When they do make the one-off payment, the next amount will not be due until the 24th of the following month. Lets say we declare a dividend of £20 because the share value is around £30. The process for me will be as follows (Assuming 185 shares): 1) Transfer £3,700 to my current account. (can't make payments direct from Jackpot Syndicate account) 2) Pay ALL members in one go. (not drip drab) 3) Update ledgers etc accordingly. Obviously, it's a lot of work making 24 payments, so I don't want to be doing it all the time for small amounts. As I want to make all the payments in one go, I will need everyone's bank details by the time we do this. HINT, HINT, There is at least 10 of you who's bank details I still do not have. I hope this is acceptable to you and everyone Dollie. Cheers, G P.S. Regarding optimal total number of shares, please read my reply to Bearace. Posted by StayOrGo
Hi Graham,
I acknowledge and accept your comments in the above post (and your reply to Bearace), but I still have a problem in terms of share value and new members:-
·We are targeting 500 shares, ie 500 at par value £5 = £2500 per month member subscriptions.
·Currently we have 185 shares issued at par value £5 generating £925 per month member subscriptions.
·We are, therefore, seeking to increase the shareholding by 315 shares from new (or existing) members.
·Taking your example above, where the share value is say £10 and this is prior to member subscriptions of £5 per share on 24th of the month, The share value for new members joining on say 26th of the month would be £15, which I believe is too high to get many takers.
·You are unlikely to place jackpot bets any greater than the monthly subscription value in any one month, this would probably be unwise anyway.
·I believe that it would be reasonable to declare a dividend equal to the value of the available funds as at the 23rd of each month and accrue this for future payment to individual shareholders. This is relatively simple to record and something I would be happy to do.
·This would achieve two things:-
oIdentify a level of return for current shareholders, they know they have something in the bag.
oMake the “buy in” for new members far more acceptable as it will be close to the £5 par value and, therefore, make the target shareholding of 500 more realistically achievable.
As shown by the number of posts on this thread, there has been much interest in this process and I think it would be a shame to put off potential new members with a “buy in” level which may be perceived as too high.
Like Gordon I also have some concerns. I am struggling to get my head round how current shareholders in the syndicate stand when the first month is up. At the moment we have 185 shares @ £5 each with standing orders in place to pay the same amount each month.When the second payment is made do I still have the same number of shares or does that second payment buy extra shares? When new members wish to join they will buy at the current share price - does this mean that their standing order will be set at that price or will it return to £5 for their second payment?
This sounds complicated and unwieldy to me . My first solution seems to be much clearer - pay out the total fund near the end of the first month and start afresh for the next month. This is in effect making the life of the syndicate one month .Those members will see a clear return (or loss!) and then rejoin the syndicate along with any new members the following month.With their standing order in place current members will automatically rejoin.By not carrying forward any funds this is more clear cut and easier for members to understand their share in the syndicate.
I understand your point about needing more funds to take advantage of opportunities that might arise during the second half of the month but hopefully with new members you will get closer to a working amount with the regular monthly subscription.
Gordon's solution is along similar lines but seems a little bit more complicated with exrta work involved in keeping track of who has accured what rather than my suggestion of a fresh start each month.Anyway I think Gordon and I are in agreement although with slightly different approaches.
Apologies Graham if you ahev already responded to Gordon's post before I have posted mine.
Can we keep to my suggestion for this month please, and we will see how it pans out in practice.
If people feel it's not working out then, I will consider changing it.
I have thought about it a lot, and have a clear understanding in my own mind.
As always, I am happy to listen to other's thoughts, but lets just give it a go as I originally planned it first, and if people are not happy with it we can change.
Regarding the 500 shares. It's not so much a target as a cap. Although it probably is the optimal amount.
PEOPLE CAN REQUEST ADDITIONAL SHARES AND/OR NEW MEMBERS JOIN ON 26TH MAY 2107
(Please do not post requests before)
On 25th MAY (Once I receive the standard payments) I will post details surrounding the process for new share requests.
I will do this as I have always planned for now, and if people are still not happy with how it fits together, then we can consider changing it in subsequent months to something in line with Dollie's suggestion.
I ensure you that the process will keep the share value static for existing members, so they will not lose out. I understand the rationale behind your proposal Dollie, however I want to keep it simple if possible. As time progresses, I think new members/share changes will occur less, especially if we reach the 500, at which point it will be a closed shop unless someone leaves.
If the initial share value is not too high, it could be a mute point.
Surely only new members come in at the start of each month. So keep winnings for each month separate and only to be spent if we want to go for a jackpot in a month when we have run out of the share money. The money left at end of month from the winnings and monthly share money is that months dividend. £5 parts of that go to extre share(s) and rest to cash, only to be paid out three monthly or when someone leaves.
My Example ME today I think
I have one share £5 and at mo my share of winnings (I think) is £6.62 and to make it easier (as I cant remember the money we have left for may) say my left over money if we do nothing more in May is £3.38; at start of June my situation will be
I will have three shares, my June payment plus the two shares our good work in May has given me .
Others at the start of June might have 50 shares and some May cash.
so on and so on.
Every Six months the £5 dividends can be paid out if it means we are getting too much in the bankroll ie 3000 shares at £5 come November(heres hoping)
This means new members shares will always be £5 and the rest of us for that matter , should give us a nice rolling bank and also allow cash to be paid to people quarterly as we go along. Meaning less work for Graham paying out.
SORRY GRAHAM DOING THIS BEFORE YOUR ANSWER ABOVE BUT HOPE IT STILL HELPFUL
Yes new members do only come in at the start of the month. (but I need a few days to confirm/receive their payments)
All will be explained on 25th May. (I am waiting until 25th May, so I can confirm all regular payments have been received and we have a verified share value, before explaining the process)
Please let me do the process the way I have planned for the first month. See how it works and then we can re-assess.
So can we please close this discussion topic until then. After that, I promise I will listen fully, but just give me a chance to show you how it pans out in practice.
It's just the questions being asked will hopefully all become clear at the time.
Hi Vaigret and all. Yes new members do only come in at the start of the month. (but I need a few days to confirm/receive their payments) All will be explained on 25th May. Please let me do the process the way I have planned for the first month. See how it works and then we can re-assess. So can we please close this discussion topic until then. After that, I promise I will listen fully, but just give me a chance to show you how it pans out in practice. It's just the questions being asked will hopefully all become clear at the time. Cheers, G Posted by StayOrGo
no problem mate trying to make it as easy as poss for you, this must be turning into a full time job . We will have to start paying you soon LOL BIG LOL
Comments
Either way cards to tough, so it's NO-GO and hope for a rollover.
No need to prep spreadsheets Roger and NAP's will go back to one selection from one of the Jackpot races.
Cheers,
G
To do a perm covering 60% of betting market in each leg. Perm cost /> £60K, out of our bankroll. :=)
A £500 perm would give us a less than 0.1% chance imo.
We are not far off that in Jackpots, and do average /> 60% (of the betting market, not 60% of selections clearly) per leg. That is the whole premise of our strategy.
For further info, feel free to read the thread below as to how I work out the betting percentage covered.
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3ae0fe4c56-4826-4c14-a350-298f784f4e3dForum%3a902ab96e-b209-4e97-96a2-98a6b9a864a8Discussion%3aa18b8047-a54d-49c9-a0b7-cfa14ecfeb34
just like big value I suppose £650000 for 400 appears better than £400 for 10-20k
Have a feeling pot wont go so might be an option when /if it gets an easier week LOL
shouldn't have mentioned anything just saw £650000 and thought good idea but when I looked at fields I realised it was a no go. you would have to be extremely lucky to get it. However if it gets into the millions with smaller fields it might be worth looking at.
Not suggesting we do for the place part just it does help to get money back if youjust miss out. When the Scoop 6 syndicate was going, with not so much money/ imput/expertise as we are in this we twice got five out of six and got quite a few place dividends over the time it ran. So agree with comments above but would suggest it not ruled out completelyin exceptional circumstances.
Although more likely to get a slightly easier card with the Friday Scoop 6 than the Saturday one. (Tomorrow is ultra tough mind)
Hi Graham,
I acknowledge and accept your comments in the above post (and your reply to Bearace), but I still have a problem in terms of share value and new members:-
· We are targeting 500 shares, ie 500 at par value £5 = £2500 per month member subscriptions.
· Currently we have 185 shares issued at par value £5 generating £925 per month member subscriptions.
· We are, therefore, seeking to increase the shareholding by 315 shares from new (or existing) members.
· Taking your example above, where the share value is say £10 and this is prior to member subscriptions of £5 per share on 24th of the month, The share value for new members joining on say 26th of the month would be £15, which I believe is too high to get many takers.
· You are unlikely to place jackpot bets any greater than the monthly subscription value in any one month, this would probably be unwise anyway.
· I believe that it would be reasonable to declare a dividend equal to the value of the available funds as at the 23rd of each month and accrue this for future payment to individual shareholders. This is relatively simple to record and something I would be happy to do.
· This would achieve two things:-
o Identify a level of return for current shareholders, they know they have something in the bag.
o Make the “buy in” for new members far more acceptable as it will be close to the £5 par value and, therefore, make the target shareholding of 500 more realistically achievable.
As shown by the number of posts on this thread, there has been much interest in this process and I think it would be a shame to put off potential new members with a “buy in” level which may be perceived as too high.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers
Gordon
I take your points.
Can we keep to my suggestion for this month please, and we will see how it pans out in practice.
If people feel it's not working out then, I will consider changing it.
I have thought about it a lot, and have a clear understanding in my own mind.
As always, I am happy to listen to other's thoughts, but lets just give it a go as I originally planned it first, and if people are not happy with it we can change.
Regarding the 500 shares. It's not so much a target as a cap. Although it probably is the optimal amount.
PEOPLE CAN REQUEST ADDITIONAL SHARES AND/OR NEW MEMBERS JOIN ON 26TH MAY 2107
(Please do not post requests before)
On 25th MAY (Once I receive the standard payments) I will post details surrounding the process for new share requests.
I will do this as I have always planned for now, and if people are still not happy with how it fits together, then we can consider changing it in subsequent months to something in line with Dollie's suggestion.
I ensure you that the process will keep the share value static for existing members, so they will not lose out. I understand the rationale behind your proposal Dollie, however I want to keep it simple if possible. As time progresses, I think new members/share changes will occur less, especially if we reach the 500, at which point it will be a closed shop unless someone leaves.
If the initial share value is not too high, it could be a mute point.
Cheers,
G
Surely only new members come in at the start of each month. So keep winnings for each month separate and only to be spent if we want to go for a jackpot in a month when we have run out of the share money. The money left at end of month from the winnings and monthly share money is that months dividend. £5 parts of that go to extre share(s) and rest to cash, only to be paid out three monthly or when someone leaves.
My Example ME today I think
I have one share £5 and at mo my share of winnings (I think) is £6.62 and to make it easier (as I cant remember the money we have left for may) say my left over money if we do nothing more in May is £3.38; at start of June my situation will be
I will have three shares, my June payment plus the two shares our good work in May has given me .
Others at the start of June might have 50 shares and some May cash.
so on and so on.
Every Six months the £5 dividends can be paid out if it means we are getting too much in the bankroll ie 3000 shares at £5
come November(heres hoping)
This means new members shares will always be £5 and the rest of us for that matter , should give us a nice rolling bank and also allow cash to be paid to people quarterly as we go along. Meaning less work for Graham paying out.
SORRY GRAHAM DOING THIS BEFORE YOUR ANSWER ABOVE BUT HOPE IT STILL HELPFUL
Yes new members do only come in at the start of the month. (but I need a few days to confirm/receive their payments)
All will be explained on 25th May. (I am waiting until 25th May, so I can confirm all regular payments have been received and we have a verified share value, before explaining the process)
Please let me do the process the way I have planned for the first month. See how it works and then we can re-assess.
So can we please close this discussion topic until then. After that, I promise I will listen fully, but just give me a chance to show you how it pans out in practice.
It's just the questions being asked will hopefully all become clear at the time.
Cheers,
G
Follow the thread below to keep up-to-date:
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3ae0fe4c56-4826-4c14-a350-298f784f4e3dForum%3a902ab96e-b209-4e97-96a2-98a6b9a864a8Discussion%3a3a8b495e-da3a-421a-ad71-13d2b855486b
Cheers,
G
First Race 2.00pm.
Final Selections and receipts will be available shortly before then, on the thread in the post above.
Cheers,
G