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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    madprof said:

    HAYSIE said:

    When will it end?

    Some people on this thread are not keen on ifs and buts, but if we look to the future, some things are predictable.

    The Article 50 extension in itself, is not a solution, it merely postpones the cliff edge until the end of October.

    When we get there it will be a choice between no deal and a further extension. Unless of course the Withdrawal Agreement has been passed.

    The Government has suspended no deal preparations, and moved the 6,000 staff involved. Presumably with a view to restarting as we approach October.

    There are many important projects that they could have spent the £4billion on.

    Even though Parliament has voted decisively against the prospect of no deal, a number of times, I suppose it is still possible.

    The length of the extension is not huge if you take Parliamentary holidays into account.

    For me there is a huge question mark over how we reach a satisfactory conclusion, and I am not really certain how many members of the general public appreciate exactly where we are.

    The Withdrawal Agreement is a Ronseal, exactly what is says on the tin. It refers to the terms under which we leave.

    Specifically the rights of EU citizens in the UK, and Brits living in the EU.

    The divorce bill.

    The Irish border issue.

    Included in this agreement is a 26 page Political Declaration.

    This is a framework for the future trade negotiations which is not legally binding, and is likely to cause difficulties in the future.

    As far as the WA is concerned the EU wont change it, and a majority of MPs wont vote for it.

    However if it was somehow miraculously passed what would happen next?

    Theresa May has promised to resign and make way for a new Tory leader. If she cant get it through she is likely to lose a vote of no confidence before the end of the year.

    So either way we will have a new PM this year.

    We can only speculate who this may be. Very few of the likely candidates are in favour of the WA because of the Backstop, or her idea of a trade deal.

    An ERG candidate wont wear the Backstop, and probably favour no deal, Boris would agree with the ERG on the Backstop, and favour a Canada style free trade deal.

    Few will agree with the PMs least worst option.

    The EU-Canada deal took 7 years to negotiate, and two years to implement.

    Experts say ours wouldn't take as long, as we are already aligned with the EU, but it would take years.

    The plan on leaving is to enter a 21 month transition period, and then the Backstop while the trade negotiations continue.

    Any Parliament is unable to tie the hands of any future Parliament.

    So there will be at least one new Tory leader/PM this year, possibly two if they appoint a temporary leader while they conduct the election. There will be a General Election in 2022, or before.

    There is therefore a huge problem in concluding negotiations.

    The new leader is unlikely to be sympathetic to Theresa Mays views on Brexit.

    If Jeremy Corbyn was elected prior to negotiations being concluded, he would probably want to rip up what had gone before, and start again.

    How many times could we start all over again?

    How can we plan for a solution when we will possibly have a further two or three different PMs, a new Parliament, maybe a new party in power, and possibly another minority Government.

    Any successful negotiations between the Tories, and Labour would not seem to be worth a light, as they wouldn't be legally binding, and undone by Boris on his first day on the job.

    A referendum would seem to be by far the best solution for providing a definite solution.

    I appreciate that it would cause some moaning, but I don't buy the threats of Civil War.

    Ignoring ifs and buts, we will definitely have a new PM, and a General Election before any conclusion.

    £4b....... the politicians involved-all sides-should be ashamed, unfortunately they have no shame....arrogant,power hungry narcissists, most of them!

    I am flabbergasted that they have been able to achieve so little in so much time.
    Amazingly they don't return until 23rd April.
    Then at the end of July they go off for 7 weeks.
    Return for a week.
    Then go off for more than three weeks, for their conferences.
    This equates to just about 3 months absence in total between now and the end of October.
    The only thing that I could think of that would be worse than the current political farce would be that ultimate ego, Nigel Farage refusing to give up on his power trip and

    I dunno forming another disruptive, nationalistic, xenophobic party, called I dunno the Brexit party?

    This will never happen because the majority of clear thinking British people won't be taken in twice, will they?
    Hopefully not.
    Although as Theresa May has not made any effort to tackle the burning injustices, nothing has changed for the worse off.
    Just telling everyone that austerity is over, doesn't make anyone better off.
    Therefore, for those that voted leave as a protest, nothing much will have changed.
    Food bank use has increased, particularly in areas where Universal Credit has been launched.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    edited April 2019






    Brexit logjam
    Senior Tories are blaming shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer for obstructing the Brexit negotiations, according to the Telegraph.
    The Conservatives blame the logjam on his demands for a second referendum and say they've found shadow chancellor, John McDonnell and the shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey more open to compromise.
    But according to the paper, Labour have hit back - accusing the Tories of failing to compromise on a deal which has already been rejected three times.
    Times columnist Matthew Parris thinks Leavers - and not just Remainers - should demand another referendum.



    Meanwhile, the sketch writers were all there to witness what one describes as "the Nigel Farage roadshow", as the former UKIP leader launched his new Brexit party.
    "He's back," says Henry Deedes in the Mail, "buzzy, boisterous" and "still mildly bonkers".
    Quentin Letts says in the Times that although Mr Farage has already "retired more times than George Best", he was clearly enjoying the "buzz of high political performance".
    The Guardian's John Crace draws attention to Mr Farage's call for the British people to "rise up against the career politicians".
    Then he points out the speech was being given by a "career politician who, bankrolled by Brussels as an MEP for 20 years, had tried and failed seven times to get elected to Westminster and was now heading up his second political party".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47917041
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    Daily Telegraph forced to correct false Brexit claim by Boris Johnson



    The Daily Telegraph has been forced to correct a column by Boris Johnson after the Brexiter MP and potential Tory leadership candidate falsely claimed a no-deal Brexit was the most popular option among the British public.



    The claim was made in a column (£) published in January but has since been removed from the online version after a complaint by a member of the public to the press regulator Ipso.



    An online correction said: “In fact, no poll clearly showed that a no-deal Brexit was more popular than the other options. This correction is being published following a complaint upheld by the Independent Press Standards Organisation.”



    Johnson receives £275,000 a year for his weekly Daily Telegraph column, a sum he once referred to as chickenfeed.
    In its defence the Telegraph said Johnson was “entitled to make sweeping generalisations based on his opinions”.



    It also suggested that claims in Johnson’s column should not be taken seriously as the piece “was clearly comically polemical, and could not be reasonably read as a serious, empirical, in-depth analysis of hard factual matters”.



    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/daily-telegraph-forced-to-correct-false-brexit-claim-by-boris-johnson/ar-BBVSfXi?ocid=spartanntp#image=BBukaQs|4
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    edited April 2019
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
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    madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,359
    HAYSIE said:


    After much discussion, both are now considered to be FAKES!
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    edited April 2019
    Nigel Farage’s Brexit party? Sorry but I’ll be washing my hair

    The comeback dolt has nothing to offer but false heroics and narcissism, which is absolutely the last thing any of us needs



    Naturally, not everyone is happy. Nigel Farage is so angry that this morning he came out of retirement to launch his new party in Coventry, with a rally in Birmingham promised tomorrow. Yes! Maverick is re-engaging, sir. The small man’s back in town. Like me, you probably missed Farage’s latest retirement, which involved him being on the airwaves more than even Holly Willoughby, who people actually like. He is now the frontman for something called the Brexit party, which – in the usual way of these things – was led until last month by a Catherine Blaiklock, before she was forced to resign after some unfortunate social media posts were unearthed.

    Decidedly upbeat this morning, Farage would only refer to this episode as “teething difficulties”, a metaphor which powerfully recalls that exhausting period in an infant’s development when you’re up half the night with it telling you Islam means submission to rapists. Shhhh, little one. Back to sleep now. If only someone would bring out a product that would ease this period of pain in any Faragiste leader’s life, they’d make a fortune.
    Anyway, on with the show. Having watched Farage’s speech about wishing he didn’t have to be back, my main takeaway was how excruciatingly grateful he is to be back. All his moaning, over all the years, should be taken with a vast pinch of salt. This is how he likes it.


    Farage has always been a very recognisable character type: the sort of “hero” who largely shirks their personal responsibilities, to the despair and exhaustion of whoever is left having to take up the slack. There are plenty of them in the public eye, of course – self-styled questers who profess themselves to be involved in a Higher Struggle, when the reality is they really just prefer being on the road having “proper **** lunches” with their acolytes, or nearly dying up Everest, or doing some ludicrous postgrad that allows them to take someone more deserving’s place in the Boat Race, or being Russell Brand, or whatever important/noble/epic/responsibility-free challenge it is this week. Sorry, luv. They are “special”. They are “artistes”. They are “too important for that stuff”.

    Or as Nigel once put it to me, back when he had them: “I am useless with young children. Completely useless. I mean, so bad it’s frightening.” Literally the next minute he was boasting about just how much of his time he was then lavishing on fighting some notional ban on menthol ****. Forgive me if the following political analysis comes off as too rarefied or opaque, then, but what a total effing eyeroll.

    I wonder if Nigel’s failure to get elected to parliament seven times has anything to do with voters smelling his selfish priorities a mile off. Either way, given that our current political system seems to be fracturing, perhaps all these men’s ex-wives who had to do all their **** for them in their absence would stand for public office? I’d vote for them in a heartbeat, on the basis that they actually understand taking responsibility. Please spare the UK any more political hero quests, which produce politicians like Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage, lead to single-issue governments, and distort an entire nation’s reality simply to enable their stripe of narcissism.
    As for what we’ll charitably describe as the content of his speech, Nigel several times stressed that the Brexit party was a “respectable vehicle”. And then, having barely drawn breath, he promised a European elections campaign that will “start to put the fear of God into our members of parliament”.


    Ah, there it is. Nobody can have missed the sheer volume of MPs stating in recent weeks and months that they seriously fear for their safety. So Nigel’s decision to go there, as it were, reminds you that he was the guy who specifically chose to mark victory in the referendum by giving a speech in which he claimed that it had been won “without a single bullet being fired”. And yet, only a week before, a bullet had been fired, in the attack that killed the MP Jo Cox. That murder was committed by a far-right extremist who saw apparently Cox as “one of ‘the collaborators’ and a traitor”, and what Nigel and co still seem to be saying with their “respectable vehicle” shtick is: appease us to keep the worse lot out.

    To which the only possible response is the most mirthless of laughs. Really? REALLY? Because after years of the Tories effectively pursuing this policy, the hard right and far right are stronger than they were before. Convicted criminal and street thug Tommy Robinson is now gearing up to run as an MEP. I mean, maybe it’s time we realised that appeasement only ends one way? Or maybe this kind of politics is like homeopathy, where you have just a really little bit of extremism and it stops the big extremism coming?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/12/nigel-farage-brexit-party-comeback-heroics

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    edited April 2019
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    edited April 2019
    **** in mouth, pint in hand, Nigel Farage is ready to ride his Brexit Party to abject failure
    I really wonder whether the public has grown a bit tired of the Farage shtick. Are we still fooled by this former banker’s fake ‘man of the people’ routine?












    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nigel-farage-brexit-party-eu-parliament-elections-labour-rees-mogg-a8866916.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521











    Polling analysis suggests Jeremy Corbyn is on course to sweep into No 10 in a general election, the Sunday Telegraph reports.
    According to a "poll of polls" for the paper, the Conservatives face losing 59 seats because of a "dramatic fall in support" over Mrs May's handling of Brexit.
    It declares the Tory collapse "a national emergency" and calls on the cabinet and Conservative MPs to oust the PM.
    The Sunday Times is forecasting a Tory disaster in the European elections and wonders if the party has a death wish.
    People see a party that cannot deliver Brexit and bangs on about it to the exclusion of everything else, the paper says.

    The Observer has a poll which, as columnist Andrew Rawnsley puts it, suggests the Conservatives are heading for a "marmalising so bad it is without historical precedent".
    Even so, the paper says it might not all be good news for Mr Corbyn. It reports suggestions that a "generation" of young pro-EU voters could desert Labour if it doesn't guarantee another referendum in its manifesto for next month's EU elections.
    The warning comes from Labour's leader in the European Parliament, Richard Corbett, though he adds that if the party decides to offer clarity and a confirmatory vote, it "could do very well".



    Brexit... and Bercow
    "Ministers fear Brexit is dead," reports the Sunday Express.
    It quotes a cabinet minister saying there's "zero chance" of success in talks between the prime minister and Labour.
    But Brexiteers have dismissed the claims as "wishful thinking by Remainers" and told the paper they'll "fight on" until Britain leaves the EU.
    Meanwhile, according to the Mail on Sunday, Commons speaker John Bercow has abandoned plans to announce his resignation later this month.
    It says he has come under huge pressure to remain in the post from anti-Brexit Conservative MPs, not least former Chancellor Ken Clarke. Brexit supporters will interpret it as a plot to to stop the UK ever leaving the EU, the paper adds.
    The Sun on Sunday describes Mr Bercow as a "self-important windbag" who has "bent every rule in the book to thwart the will of the people".
    "Get rid of the Berc now", it urges.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47923833
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    British Steel requests £100m loan as Brexit deal failure leaves it out of pocket



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/04/13/british-steel-requests-100m-loan-brexit-deal-failure-leaves/
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521

    Corbyn told to back new EU referendum or lose millions of supporters
    A generation of young people could desert the party, says Richard Corbett, leader of Labour MEPs



    Jeremy Corbyn has been warned by Labour’s leader in the European parliament and other grandees that the party will be deserted by millions of anti-Brexit voters if it fails to clearly back a second referendum in its manifesto for next month’s EU elections.
    The message from Richard Corbett, who leads Labour’s 20 MEPs, comes amid growing fears at the top of the party that it could lose a generation of young, pro-EU voters if it does not guarantee another public vote.
    That age group, as well as many other Remainers, MPs say, could turn instead to unambiguously anti-Brexit parties, including the fledgling independent group Change UK, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and the SNP.
    Corbett said: “If Labour does not re-confirm its support for a confirmatory public vote on any Brexit deal in its manifesto then it will haemorrhage votes to parties who do have a clear message. If on the other hand we do offer clarity and a confirmatory ballot we could do very well.”



    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/13/corbyn-told-back-eu-referendum-or-lose-millions-voters-brexit
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    Anti-Brexit Wetherspoon staff crusade against chain boss’s ‘propaganda’

    Workers at Wetherspoon pubs yesterday launched a petition against owner Tim Martin’s use of his 1,100 pubs to promote a no-deal Brexit.



    The Spoons Workers Against Brexit launch statement said: ‘We are Wetherspoon workers and supporters who are disgusted by the way that the company’s founder and chairman, Tim Martin, is exploiting his position to promote an extremely damaging no deal Brexit through pubs up and down the country.

    ‘He routinely labels Remain supporters the “metropolitan elite”; yet he himself is an incredibly wealthy man, accruing a tidy net wealth of almost £500,000,000 in no small part by paying his staff poverty wages. ‘To add insult, he forces staff members to distribute propaganda in favour of a hard Brexit – something which would drive down our working conditions and living standards even further.’



    The statement added: ‘We refuse to propagandise for politics that will only do us harm if enacted. Studies have consistently refuted claims that immigration is linked to low wages. Migrants don’t drive down wages; but wealthy, exploitative bosses like Tim Martin do.’ ‘We are opposed to Brexit in its entirety and we support allowing the free movement of people so that everyone, regardless of nationality, has the right to live and work here.’ Spoons Workers Against Brexit has already gained thousands of followers on Facebook and Twitter with workers and ex-staff supporting the petition.




    Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/28/anti-brexit-wetherspoon-staff-crusade-against-chain-bosss-propaganda-8402554/?ito=cbshare
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    edited April 2019
    'There will have to be a border' - Former WTO leader on Brexit



    A border will have to be imposed post Brexit regardless of any UK/EU trade deal, former World Trade Organisation (WTO) chief Pascal Lamy has warned.
    Mr Lamy – who is on a two day visit to Dublin - said the moment a country leaves the single market, borders go up. He said the border question cannot be evaded.
    “Whatever UK/EU trade regime will be negotiated, assuming there will be one, there will have to be a border,” the former trade chief told an event organised by Dublin City University’s Brexit Institute.
    “The moment you exit the internal market, you have borders.”
    Mr Lamy, who was also chief of staff to former European Commission president Jacques Delors, said he hasn’t found a solution to the border question.
    “I haven’t found any solution. And the reason is that the 'no border' does not exist.”
    He also said there would have to be checks to ensure that goods brought across the border comply with standards.
    Mr Lamy said he had looked at the Swedish/Norway border, which he described as a “serious border”.

    He said “nothing will prevent Brexit” from transforming the situation with the border.
    “The only solution, the only question is where is the border? And that of course is a million dollar question.”
    The former WTO director general said it may be “convenient” not to recognise now that there will have to be a border and that that has to be dealt with.

    “If whatever arrangement implies a border, you cannot evade the border question,” Mr Lamy said.
    “I can understand why it is convenient to do that.”
    Mr Lamy also said that the claim from Prime Minister Theresa May that no deal is a better than a bad deal, is a “bad omen”.
    “When I hear a negotiator starting at the very beginning outlining no deal is better than a bad deal, it is not a good sign,” Mr Lamy said.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/there-will-have-to-be-a-border-former-wto-leader-on-brexit-36265479.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521










    The latest rivalries in the Conservative Party make the front pages of several newspapers.
    The i and Metro focus on comments from one of Theresa May's party leader predecessors - Iain Duncan Smith - that she should quit before next month's European elections.
    Meanwhile, the Daily Telegraph says Chancellor Philip Hammond gave a speech in Washington "pouring scorn" on Michael Gove, Boris Johnson and Andrea Leadsom - who all failed in their bids to become Tory leader in 2016.
    It quotes Mr Hammond saying: "Gove and Johnson knifed each other in an unintended suicide pact... then Leadsom knifed herself in a private suicide pact."


    The Telegraph says the comments resonate as "a succession of leading Tories" line up to replace Theresa May, including Home Secretary Sajid Javid who is due to address 100 police and crime experts today.
    According to the Times, at least three cabinet members vying for No 10 are keen to avoid a leadership election before a Brexit deal is passed in the Commons.
    An earlier challenge, they suggest, would hand the initiative to a candidate from the right of the party.
    But, writing on the Spectator website, Toby Young argues that's what the Tories need - an "unapologetic Thatcherite" who doesn't always try to be politically correct.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47930063

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
    Second referendum campaigner David Lammy likens Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg to ****




    Labour MP David Lammy has been accused of "losing it" after comparing Tory Eurosceptics with Hitler and the Nazi Party.
    The second referendum campaigner said that comparisons with Nazi Germany are "not strong enough" in comments which prompted a backlash by Tory MPs.
    Mr Lammy was asked by the BBC's Andrew Marr about whether a comparison he previously made between the European Research Group (ERG) and the Nazi Party and South African racists was unacceptable.
    He replied: "Andrew, I would say that wasn't strong enough. In 1938 there were allies who hatched a plan for Hitler to annex part of Czechoslovakia, and Churchill said no, and he stood alone.
    "We must not appease. We're in a situation now,...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/14/second-referendum-campaigner-david-lammy-likens-boris-johnson/

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,521
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