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Brexit

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925








    "May has Betrayed our Party" is how the Mail on Sunday sums up Gavin Williamson's criticisms of the prime minister's Brexit strategy.
    The paper says the sacked defence secretary uses an "incendiary" article to launch a "devastating" attack on her decision to seek a compromise deal with Labour.
    The Mail is among a number of papers to highlight recent polling that puts the Brexit Party ahead of the Conservatives.
    The Sunday Telegraph describes the survey results as a "bombshell".
    In an editorial, the paper says the Conservatives are facing electoral annihilation but, incredibly, the party leadership seems oblivious.
    The apparent surge in support for the Brexit Party has sparked panic in both Tory and Labour ranks, according to the Observer.
    It says the polling suggests the Brexit Party is now on course for a "thumping" victory in the European elections.
    The former Education Secretary, Justine Greening, is quoted as saying that ducking difficult decisions on Brexit has fuelled populism.
    Writing in the online edition of the paper, Tony Blair calls on Labour supporters to vote, even if they choose a party more in favour of Remain than Labour.



    The Brexit Party leader, Nigel Farage, tells the Sunday Telegraph that party members will be given access to an app, which will allow them to have a direct say in the decision-making process.
    The paper says it is an echo of the online platform used by the populist Five Start Movement in Italy to engage activists.
    The Sunday Times claims some of Britain's super-rich are preparing to leave the UK amid fears of a Labour victory at the next general election.
    As the paper publishes its "rich list" of wealthy individuals, it says one in 10 of those who responded to questions said they are making plans to protect themselves from higher taxes under Jeremy Corbyn.

    The Sun carries pictures of the radical preacher Anjem Choudary allegedly on an unsupervised walk late at night.
    The paper claims the preacher, who is subject to strict conditions, was allowed to roam the streets after being released to a bail hostel six months.
    According to the Sunday People, the comedian Freddie Starr could be buried in a pauper's grave.
    It quotes the celebrity's carer who looked after him at his Spanish home where he died, saying there may not be enough money to pay for his funeral.
    And finally, royal fans will be much relieved by the story on the front page of the Sunday Times.
    Sources have told the paper that Prince Harry has passed the first real test of modern fatherhood: by changing Archie's nappy.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48241593
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
    'Corbygeddon': Britain's mega-rich pack up and leave UK - taking £1trillion with them - as they prepare for tax increases if Labour leader is made PM
    Richest people in Britain are making plans to flee the country with £1trillion
    It comes amid Labour's relative success in recent polls, putting them ahead
    Super-rich are reportedly more worried about Corbyn than Brexit




    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7019315/Britains-mega-rich-pack-leave-UK-prepare-Corbygeddon.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
    edited May 2019
    Brexit causes UK to lose more than 400,000 millionaires
    In the space of 12 months, about £1.2tn has been wiped off the value of household wealth in the UK, as sterling dropped against the dollar



    The UK has lost about 15 per cent of its millionaire as the country’s decision to leave the EU rattled the pound and the stock market.
    UK household wealth has plummeted by a combined $1.5 trillion (£1.2tn) in the space of 12 months, according to the Global Wealth report by Credit Suisse - one of the biggest drops in wealth among the major economies.

    This contributed to more than 400,000 Britons losing their status as dollar millionaires.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-pound-stocks-millionaires-uk-lose-a7431241.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
    "Brexit Behind Closed Doors", was an eye opener.

    It focused on how things have panned out from the European side.

    There was so much time wasted by the UK side.

    We invoked Article 50, and then spent 6 or 7 weeks on a General Election campaign.

    At the end of a particular week, Michel Barnier commented that he had seen David Davis for an hour on that Monday, but hadn't seen him at all in the previous 3 months.

    Are those the actions of a serious Brexit Secretary involved in the most important negotiations this country has faced since the Second World War?

    He later claimed that he was in the dark over some aspects of the negotiations.

    Dominic Raab appeared, immediately attempting to throw his weight around, but was forced to back down.

    While Ollie Robbins speculated on moving to Belgium after the conclusion of negotiations.

    My impression of the EU side were that they were firm but fair.
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    lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,190
    HAYSIE said:

    "Brexit Behind Closed Doors", was an eye opener.

    It focused on how things have panned out from the European side.

    There was so much time wasted by the UK side.

    We invoked Article 50, and then spent 6 or 7 weeks on a General Election campaign.

    At the end of a particular week, Michel Barnier commented that he had seen David Davis for an hour on that Monday, but hadn't seen him at all in the previous 3 months.

    Are those the actions of a serious Brexit Secretary involved in the most important negotiations this country has faced since the Second World War?

    He later claimed that he was in the dark over some aspects of the negotiations.

    Dominic Raab appeared, immediately attempting to throw his weight around, but was forced to back down.

    While Ollie Robbins speculated on moving to Belgium after the conclusion of negotiations.

    My impression of the EU side were that they were firm but fair.

    Agree totally (which is rare). The Remainers and Leavers can continue to argue about the rights and wrongs on leaving or not until the cows come home.The blame for the mess the country currently finds itself in lies firmly at the governments door.Has there ever been a more weaker or disorganised government in living memory.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 162,098
    HAYSIE said:

    "Brexit Behind Closed Doors", was an eye opener.

    It focused on how things have panned out from the European side.

    There was so much time wasted by the UK side.

    We invoked Article 50, and then spent 6 or 7 weeks on a General Election campaign.

    At the end of a particular week, Michel Barnier commented that he had seen David Davis for an hour on that Monday, but hadn't seen him at all in the previous 3 months.

    Are those the actions of a serious Brexit Secretary involved in the most important negotiations this country has faced since the Second World War?

    He later claimed that he was in the dark over some aspects of the negotiations.

    Dominic Raab appeared, immediately attempting to throw his weight around, but was forced to back down.

    While Ollie Robbins speculated on moving to Belgium after the conclusion of negotiations.

    My impression of the EU side were that they were firm but fair.

    It was an excellent TV Show imo, a real eye-opener, & very interesting to see it from "the other side" (the EU).

    Quite embarrassing too, what an absolute shambles by our Government.

    And I certainly got the impression that the EU were trying very hard to be reasonable. When negotiating & debating it is vital to be a) flexible, b) yield a little ground occasionally in order to gain a little & c) show some respect to those we are negotiating with. No negotiation ever succeeded without at least partly addressing these.

    Absolutely fascinating TV programme, & very well Produced I thought.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
    No Deal.

    Some of the ERG, The Brexit Party, and some other no deal supporters, seem to have started calling it a WTO Brexit.

    There are many holes in this plan, and I think that the public are being misled if they believe it is a coherent plan.

    Firstly, during the referendum nobody was proposing that we would leave without a deal.

    David Davis, the Brexit Secretary said we would get the same benefits, Liam fox said it would be the easiest trade deal in human history, Boris Johnson said that it couldn't happen, because the Germans would want to sell us their cars etc, Nigel Farage was swearing by a Norway type deal.

    The opposition to remaining in The Customs Union, is that we would have to forego an independent trade policy, and be prohibited from forging free trade deals with other countries. One of the main arguments from the leave side.

    However trading on WTO rules is for those who have no trade deals, and involves tariffs.

    The point of doing trade deals is to reduce or eliminate tariffs. Tariffs mean higher prices for consumers.

    Those that are singing the praises of no deal, or a WTO Brexit, don't seem to be in favour of stopping trading with the EU for ever.

    They seem to be proposing that we should leave with no deal, then do a deal later.

    So instead of proposing no deal, or WTO Brexit, they should be calling for "Do A Deal Later".

    There is a major stumbling block to this plan. The EU will not be talking to us about trade until we pass the Withdrawal Bill.

    So when Nigel Farage says we should get up and walk away, he means that after we walk away we should pass the Withdrawal Bill, then walk back start negotiating again.

    Walking away leaves us in a worse position than we are in today, we still wouldn't be able to pass the Withdrawal Bill, but having to paying tariffs.

    Liam Fox famously said if WTO was so good then why would anyone ever do a free trade deal?

    How can the WTO nonsense ever be considered a coherent plan.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
    Tikay10 said:

    HAYSIE said:

    "Brexit Behind Closed Doors", was an eye opener.

    It focused on how things have panned out from the European side.

    There was so much time wasted by the UK side.

    We invoked Article 50, and then spent 6 or 7 weeks on a General Election campaign.

    At the end of a particular week, Michel Barnier commented that he had seen David Davis for an hour on that Monday, but hadn't seen him at all in the previous 3 months.

    Are those the actions of a serious Brexit Secretary involved in the most important negotiations this country has faced since the Second World War?

    He later claimed that he was in the dark over some aspects of the negotiations.

    Dominic Raab appeared, immediately attempting to throw his weight around, but was forced to back down.

    While Ollie Robbins speculated on moving to Belgium after the conclusion of negotiations.

    My impression of the EU side were that they were firm but fair.

    It was an excellent TV Show imo, a real eye-opener, & very interesting to see it from "the other side" (the EU).

    Quite embarrassing too, what an absolute shambles by our Government.

    And I certainly got the impression that the EU were trying very hard to be reasonable. When negotiating & debating it is vital to be a) flexible, b) yield a little ground occasionally in order to gain a little & c) show some respect to those we are negotiating with. No negotiation ever succeeded without at least partly addressing these.

    Absolutely fascinating TV programme, & very well Produced I thought.


    The EU has come in for some terrible undeserved flak from UK politicians.

    We decided to leave, what was our plan for the Irish Border?

    As soon as we leave, the Irish border becomes the frontier of the European Union.

    The EU have been very sympathetic on this issue.

    What would we have done if they had insisted, that leaving will have to result in a hard border in Ireland.

    Our politicians just want to blame the EU for our problems.

    Since when does taking back control of our borders, mean not having any?

    The Backstop was invented by Theresa May, but blamed on the EU.

    We have been guilty of blaming the lack of solutions for unforeseen problems on the EU, despite the fact that we decided to leave.


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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
    lucy4 said:

    HAYSIE said:

    "Brexit Behind Closed Doors", was an eye opener.

    It focused on how things have panned out from the European side.

    There was so much time wasted by the UK side.

    We invoked Article 50, and then spent 6 or 7 weeks on a General Election campaign.

    At the end of a particular week, Michel Barnier commented that he had seen David Davis for an hour on that Monday, but hadn't seen him at all in the previous 3 months.

    Are those the actions of a serious Brexit Secretary involved in the most important negotiations this country has faced since the Second World War?

    He later claimed that he was in the dark over some aspects of the negotiations.

    Dominic Raab appeared, immediately attempting to throw his weight around, but was forced to back down.

    While Ollie Robbins speculated on moving to Belgium after the conclusion of negotiations.

    My impression of the EU side were that they were firm but fair.

    Agree totally (which is rare). The Remainers and Leavers can continue to argue about the rights and wrongs on leaving or not until the cows come home.The blame for the mess the country currently finds itself in lies firmly at the governments door.Has there ever been a more weaker or disorganised government in living memory.
    lucy4 said:

    HAYSIE said:

    "Brexit Behind Closed Doors", was an eye opener.

    It focused on how things have panned out from the European side.

    There was so much time wasted by the UK side.

    We invoked Article 50, and then spent 6 or 7 weeks on a General Election campaign.

    At the end of a particular week, Michel Barnier commented that he had seen David Davis for an hour on that Monday, but hadn't seen him at all in the previous 3 months.

    Are those the actions of a serious Brexit Secretary involved in the most important negotiations this country has faced since the Second World War?

    He later claimed that he was in the dark over some aspects of the negotiations.

    Dominic Raab appeared, immediately attempting to throw his weight around, but was forced to back down.

    While Ollie Robbins speculated on moving to Belgium after the conclusion of negotiations.

    My impression of the EU side were that they were firm but fair.

    Agree totally (which is rare). The Remainers and Leavers can continue to argue about the rights and wrongs on leaving or not until the cows come home.The blame for the mess the country currently finds itself in lies firmly at the governments door.Has there ever been a more weaker or disorganised government in living memory.
    The article that I posted about Brexit in pictures just reminded me of what has happened so far.

    My conclusion is that Brexit was impossible.

    Because there are so many different views and opinions, and everyone thinks that theirs is the correct one, it is going to be impossible to reach an agreement.

    I just watched a Nigel Farage car crash interview on Marr.

    The only thing that may help an agreement, is that the threat of Nigel Farage appearing on our screens regularly, may force some MPs into giving in and supporting the Withdrawal Bill.

    The Government have been pathetic, but I think it was an impossible task.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 162,098
    lucy4 said:

    HAYSIE said:

    "Brexit Behind Closed Doors", was an eye opener.

    It focused on how things have panned out from the European side.

    There was so much time wasted by the UK side.

    We invoked Article 50, and then spent 6 or 7 weeks on a General Election campaign.

    At the end of a particular week, Michel Barnier commented that he had seen David Davis for an hour on that Monday, but hadn't seen him at all in the previous 3 months.

    Are those the actions of a serious Brexit Secretary involved in the most important negotiations this country has faced since the Second World War?

    He later claimed that he was in the dark over some aspects of the negotiations.

    Dominic Raab appeared, immediately attempting to throw his weight around, but was forced to back down.

    While Ollie Robbins speculated on moving to Belgium after the conclusion of negotiations.

    My impression of the EU side were that they were firm but fair.

    Agree totally (which is rare). The Remainers and Leavers can continue to argue about the rights and wrongs on leaving or not until the cows come home.The blame for the mess the country currently finds itself in lies firmly at the governments door.Has there ever been a more weaker or disorganised government in living memory.
    @lucy4

    Agree with most of that.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 162,098
    edited May 2019
    For balance, it's not easy for the Government when the public are so divided. The obduracy of the various Opposition parties has not helped. When will they realise that we and they all have to compromise? There's simply no answer that is acceptable to a reasonable majority.

    Billy Bragg just posted this on Twitter, which is extraordinary & shows how difficult all this is;

    image
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,925
    Tikay10 said:

    For balance, it's not easy for the Government when the public are so divided. The obduracy of the various Opposition parties has not helped. When will they realise that we and they all have to compromise? There's simply no answer that is acceptable to a reasonable majority.

    Billy Bragg just posted this on Twitter, which is extraordinary & shows how difficult all this is;

    image

    As I said earlier I think it was an impossible task.
    I think a referendum is a clear way out.
    The impasse will continue unless the threat of Nigel Farage forces enough MPs to support the Withdrawal Bill.
    Then we will get a new PM, and who knows where we end up.
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    lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,190
    Tikay10 said:

    For balance, it's not easy for the Government when the public are so divided. The obduracy of the various Opposition parties has not helped. When will they realise that we and they all have to compromise? There's simply no answer that is acceptable to a reasonable majority.

    Billy Bragg just posted this on Twitter, which is extraordinary & shows how difficult all this is;

    image

    I think that the only thing this poll confirms is that Theresa May's deal is a **** deal.
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    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited May 2019
    Oh well , if Billy Bragg posted a poll , it must be accurate . :D
    Seriously , where does this nonsense poll originate from ? how many people contributed ? when was it taken ? cross referencing ? ...etc etc
    More remainer nonsense .
    And as an aside , using words that most people have never heard of like " obduracy " doesn't add to the validity of a post in the slightest .
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