Ok so onto the leaflet and point 1 ....The promise not to join the euro. The article says , misleading claim and very likely incorrect .
As a result of signing the maastricht treaty we gained a permanent opt out of joining the Euro. That's not to say we couldn't . The government at the time could only promise and keep that promise, that we won't join the EU for their period of governance. The issue of joining the euro has been revisited several times and a current government could not guarantee that subsequent ones wouldn't also revisit it .
So in summary , I think the article makes a fair point , but on the other hand policies and promises get broken all the time and the usual reason given is " the situation has changed considerably " . As the word naive has been used , it would be very naive for anyone to think if we stayed in the EU , that we would never join the euro .
Surely the point is that we have the choice. No Government is allowed to tie the hands of any future Government on anything. Nobody can really argue about what might happen in the future with any certainty. Although if this Government decided to join the Euro, there would be riots. The British people are proud of the pound, and I couldn't see this ever changing, particularly in my lifetime. A more important point is that if we left, and rejoined in the future many of our current conditions, and rebate etc may well not apply. For instance all new members after 2020 must join the Euro. This in itself would make rejoining very difficult, particularly in the fairly near future. Therefore, if leaving proves to be as damaging as many people think, the way back would be extremely difficult. So having made our bed, we would be forced to lie in it.
It seems to be a ridiculous argument.
To claim that the promise that we wouldn't join the Euro was misleading, when we haven't.
All any Prime Minister can do is make promises on behalf of the current Government. He promised, and we didn't join the Euro, how could that be misleading.
Incidentally, I worked in Portugal in 2001, and used to get 1.66 euro to the pound, today its around 1.10. So they are getting much more for their Euros than they used to.
There was a good 3 part documentary on the telly, part 2 was this week, its about how we got to where we are today. Inside Europe. Ten Years of Turmoil.
This is exactly what the leaflet said in regards to joining the Euro :
The UK has secured a special status in a reformed EU: • we will not join the euro
Now rightly or wrongly , a lot of people would have read that and made the assumption that it effectively meant future governments will not make the uk join the Euro . You can argue all you like how that isn't the case , but thats how a lot of people would have understood it . To say the promise wasn't misleading because we haven't , is just silly beyond words ...of course we haven't because apart from anything else we voted leave . If you were a remain voter and one of the main reasons you voted that way was because of a commitment not to join the Euro , and 2 years down the line ( assuming remain won the referendum) the government decided that we had met the 5 criteria and we would be joining the Euro , you would all be bleating about how that wasn't what you voted for . On to the bit about the rioting in the streets , I find it strange you would be of this opinion regarding adopting the Euro , but have basically poo pooed the idea that a 2nd referendum would also have the same effect.
As an addendum also note the wording on the leaflet , it says " the UK " , not this government in particular.
I rest my case.
Reality Check: The government's referendum leaflet
The claim: We will not join the euro
Reality Check verdict: This is true - the UK secured an opt-out, which is written into EU law. The UK cannot be forced to adopt the single currency.
Cannot be forced to is not the same as decides to . Any lawyers around that can point that out to him , please ? I'm getting a bit worried about you Haysie , think you need a holiday
Ok so onto the leaflet and point 1 ....The promise not to join the euro. The article says , misleading claim and very likely incorrect .
As a result of signing the maastricht treaty we gained a permanent opt out of joining the Euro. That's not to say we couldn't . The government at the time could only promise and keep that promise, that we won't join the EU for their period of governance. The issue of joining the euro has been revisited several times and a current government could not guarantee that subsequent ones wouldn't also revisit it .
So in summary , I think the article makes a fair point , but on the other hand policies and promises get broken all the time and the usual reason given is " the situation has changed considerably " . As the word naive has been used , it would be very naive for anyone to think if we stayed in the EU , that we would never join the euro .
Surely the point is that we have the choice. No Government is allowed to tie the hands of any future Government on anything. Nobody can really argue about what might happen in the future with any certainty. Although if this Government decided to join the Euro, there would be riots. The British people are proud of the pound, and I couldn't see this ever changing, particularly in my lifetime. A more important point is that if we left, and rejoined in the future many of our current conditions, and rebate etc may well not apply. For instance all new members after 2020 must join the Euro. This in itself would make rejoining very difficult, particularly in the fairly near future. Therefore, if leaving proves to be as damaging as many people think, the way back would be extremely difficult. So having made our bed, we would be forced to lie in it.
It seems to be a ridiculous argument.
To claim that the promise that we wouldn't join the Euro was misleading, when we haven't.
All any Prime Minister can do is make promises on behalf of the current Government. He promised, and we didn't join the Euro, how could that be misleading.
Incidentally, I worked in Portugal in 2001, and used to get 1.66 euro to the pound, today its around 1.10. So they are getting much more for their Euros than they used to.
There was a good 3 part documentary on the telly, part 2 was this week, its about how we got to where we are today. Inside Europe. Ten Years of Turmoil.
This is exactly what the leaflet said in regards to joining the Euro :
The UK has secured a special status in a reformed EU: • we will not join the euro
Now rightly or wrongly , a lot of people would have read that and made the assumption that it effectively meant future governments will not make the uk join the Euro . You can argue all you like how that isn't the case , but thats how a lot of people would have understood it . To say the promise wasn't misleading because we haven't , is just silly beyond words ...of course we haven't because apart from anything else we voted leave . If you were a remain voter and one of the main reasons you voted that way was because of a commitment not to join the Euro , and 2 years down the line ( assuming remain won the referendum) the government decided that we had met the 5 criteria and we would be joining the Euro , you would all be bleating about how that wasn't what you voted for . On to the bit about the rioting in the streets , I find it strange you would be of this opinion regarding adopting the Euro , but have basically poo pooed the idea that a 2nd referendum would also have the same effect.
As an addendum also note the wording on the leaflet , it says " the UK " , not this government in particular.
I rest my case.
Reality Check: The government's referendum leaflet
The claim: We will not join the euro
Reality Check verdict: This is true - the UK secured an opt-out, which is written into EU law. The UK cannot be forced to adopt the single currency.
Cannot be forced to is not the same as decides to . Any lawyers around that can point that out to him , please ? I'm getting a bit worried about you Haysie , think you need a holiday
EssexPhil is a lawyer.
You both need a holiday
Yes , but preferably not together and in different continents
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