Here's how I see the whole debacle.The EU could offer everything that the country asks for also getting it hand delivered by Elvis flying in on a golden Pegasus,but that still wouldn't be accepted by some MP's/Media/Individuals etc.Those people are only interested in one thing and one thing only,to remain in the EU come what may.It is their sole intention to disrupt/delay/object to any deal that gives us a chance of leaving the EU.Once one problem is solved they will produce another to concentrate their objections on,until the country has finally had enough and cancels Brexit altogether.Then it'll be the Leavers turn to disrupt/delay/object to everything and so it all begins again.The Never Ending Story.
Here's how I see the whole debacle.The EU could offer everything that the country asks for also getting it hand delivered by Elvis flying in on a golden Pegasus,but that still wouldn't be accepted by some MP's/Media/Individuals etc.Those people are only interested in one thing and one thing only,to remain in the EU come what may.It is their sole intention to disrupt/delay/object to any deal that gives us a chance of leaving the EU.Once one problem is solved they will produce another to concentrate their objections on,until the country has finally had enough and cancels Brexit altogether.Then it'll be the Leavers turn to disrupt/delay/object to everything and so it all begins again.The Never Ending Story.
I'm sure lots of people agree with you. It shows how polarising Brexit is, as i see it as being completely the opposite.
Many Remainers are perfectly happy to agree to exactly the sort of Brexit that BOTH leave campaigns wanted in 2016. Examples are on this thread, including me and @HAYSIE
It is the Leave side that keep changing position and thwarting Brexit. May's deal was a compromise, but it was hardline Conservatives that stopped it. We could have left 2 years ago, and have secured our economic future by now.
But no. Economic illiterates campaign for a "No Deal" Brexit, when in reality even the most stupid of them knows it will cause major problems and force us to beg for any deal.
Back to the original post, I voted leave but now if there was another referendum I'd abstain.The reason ? I'm sick to death with it all and just want it sorted out either way.To be honest the average person is still gonna get shat on while the others feather their own future nests.The idea of those in power doing the right thing for the man/woman in the street are and always have been a load of ballacks. The Powers That Be Make The Rules...
Oops! Mrs May's treaty was us not leaving the EU but being trapped in it forever. You think our MP's not listening, well we (can) get rid of them eventually but not the EU Hierarchy we don't vote them in or do our EPM. They laughed at Nigel when he said we're leaving. World Domination their Vehicle but the wheels about to come off.
Here's how I see the whole debacle.The EU could offer everything that the country asks for also getting it hand delivered by Elvis flying in on a golden Pegasus,but that still wouldn't be accepted by some MP's/Media/Individuals etc.Those people are only interested in one thing and one thing only,to remain in the EU come what may.It is their sole intention to disrupt/delay/object to any deal that gives us a chance of leaving the EU.Once one problem is solved they will produce another to concentrate their objections on,until the country has finally had enough and cancels Brexit altogether.Then it'll be the Leavers turn to disrupt/delay/object to everything and so it all begins again.The Never Ending Story.
It is very easy to criticise politicians. The blame for us not having the EU rests squarely on the shoulders of the fanatics in the ERG, it was they that stopped Theresa Mays deal going through. The vast majority of the sacked remainer Tory rebels voted in favour of the deal, all three times. Parliament is just as split as the country on Brexit, and this seems unlikely to change, anytime soon. As far as the UK is concerned, England and Wales voted leave while Scotland and NI voted remain. In our next election the leave vote is likely to be split between the Tories and the Brexit Party, while remainers are expected to support Labour and the Lib Dems. Whereas the SNP should clean up in Scotland. MPs are expected to represent their own constituents, show loyalty to their party, vote in favour of whats best for the UK, while probably feeling patriotic to their country. Doesn't this therefore make Brexit impossible. Lets say you are a north of England Labour MP and your constituents voted to leave, your party favours remain, your country voted leave, and the UK voted to leave. Where would your loyalties lie, when you could lose your job voting in favour of what the will of the people, your country, and the UK voted for. As you would be voting against your party. What if you were an SNP, MP, supporting the will of the people, would mean voting against what your party, your country, and your constituents, favoured.
As far as problems are concerned, the one problem that has stopped us moving forward from the beginning is the Irish border. Theresa May should have had the balls from day one to tell the DUP that the border was going in the Irish sea. It is therefore not a case of solving one problem, and another one popping up. We have had one problem from the start that we haven't solved. The rest of the Withdrawal Agreement was agreed fairly quickly. How much we owe, and citizens rights, how difficult was that? Almost 30 months to not solve the Irish border problem.
The MPs that I feel contempt for are those that were members of the Anyone But Boris Campaign, that abandoned their principles, as soon as it became clear he would win the leadership election, and became lickers of his ar5e, just to get a Cabinet job.
If I had to list the reasons for the disdain I feel for the nasty, horrible ERG, I would be here all night
Voted remain. Would vote remain again, but my opinion of the whole thing has shifted significantly throughout the referendum campaign so think it's still worth posting here, despite not changing what I would vote for.
In 2016 my thinking at the start of the referendum campaign, not really feeling sufficiently well-informed to be voting on something like this, was "I'm planning to vote remain because if I'm wrong, it seems like a less catastrophic mistake than leaving would be - However, I'm willing to listen to arguments from both sides".
The leave campaign failed to do anything for me - the Brexit Bus was fishy to me from the start. The leave campaign, rather than telling me about how we'd benefit from leaving the EU, were sending out leaflets with messages like "Turkey might join the EU and let Iraqis and Syrians into the UK", when anyone who bothered to do any research whatsoever could tell you that Turkey ain't getting into the EU any time soon - Besides, what's wrong with Iraqi and Syrian people anyway? Small sample size but 100% of the Syrian people I've met were lovely. I've met a grand total of zero Iraqis but I'm sure they're lovely, too.
Ultimately, all the xenophobia from the leave campaign had pushed me so far towards voting remain that it would have taken a very convincing argument that leaving would be financially beneficial for it to get my vote. That never came close to happening.
Now, the whole leaving process has been an absolute clusterf*ck, the £ has fallen through the floor, the country is more divided than anything I've seen in my lifetime, and the Tories have been unbelievably incompetent. I'm learning new languages so that I potentially have more places to GTFO if the country continues on its current downward trajectory, because I don't fancy being stuck on an island with Tories and racists.
It angers me that I'm potentially looking at giving up my freedom of movement (among other things, but that's the biggest one for me personally), and the benefits opportunities that come with that, when I see no benefits to us leaving, all so that some knuckle-dragging racist can "have their country back", whatever tf that means. It hurts to see so many of my friends afraid of not having certain EU laws that currently protect them from some of the changes the Tories will undoubtedly make once we're out of the EU.
We have a generation of voters who overwhelmingly voted to remain, who will be most affected by us leaving, and are looking at possibly being taken out of the EU without a deal. We're alienated by a party that admitted within the last few days that one reason for wanting to call a general election now is that less students would be registered to vote, so that it can increase its chances of getting a majority and making sure we leave the EU on the 31st October. No wonder we're all 'remoaners'...
Here's how I see the whole debacle.The EU could offer everything that the country asks for also getting it hand delivered by Elvis flying in on a golden Pegasus,but that still wouldn't be accepted by some MP's/Media/Individuals etc.Those people are only interested in one thing and one thing only,to remain in the EU come what may.It is their sole intention to disrupt/delay/object to any deal that gives us a chance of leaving the EU.Once one problem is solved they will produce another to concentrate their objections on,until the country has finally had enough and cancels Brexit altogether.Then it'll be the Leavers turn to disrupt/delay/object to everything and so it all begins again.The Never Ending Story.
I'm sure lots of people agree with you. It shows how polarising Brexit is, as i see it as being completely the opposite.
Many Remainers are perfectly happy to agree to exactly the sort of Brexit that BOTH leave campaigns wanted in 2016. Examples are on this thread, including me and @HAYSIE
It is the Leave side that keep changing position and thwarting Brexit. May's deal was a compromise, but it was hardline Conservatives that stopped it. We could have left 2 years ago, and have secured our economic future by now.
But no. Economic illiterates campaign for a "No Deal" Brexit, when in reality even the most stupid of them knows it will cause major problems and force us to beg for any deal.
Just noticed that the Roberto Duran film has just appeared on Sky.
Here's how I see the whole debacle.The EU could offer everything that the country asks for also getting it hand delivered by Elvis flying in on a golden Pegasus,but that still wouldn't be accepted by some MP's/Media/Individuals etc.Those people are only interested in one thing and one thing only,to remain in the EU come what may.It is their sole intention to disrupt/delay/object to any deal that gives us a chance of leaving the EU.Once one problem is solved they will produce another to concentrate their objections on,until the country has finally had enough and cancels Brexit altogether.Then it'll be the Leavers turn to disrupt/delay/object to everything and so it all begins again.The Never Ending Story.
I'm sure lots of people agree with you. It shows how polarising Brexit is, as i see it as being completely the opposite.
Many Remainers are perfectly happy to agree to exactly the sort of Brexit that BOTH leave campaigns wanted in 2016. Examples are on this thread, including me and @HAYSIE
It is the Leave side that keep changing position and thwarting Brexit. May's deal was a compromise, but it was hardline Conservatives that stopped it. We could have left 2 years ago, and have secured our economic future by now.
But no. Economic illiterates campaign for a "No Deal" Brexit, when in reality even the most stupid of them knows it will cause major problems and force us to beg for any deal.
Just noticed that the Roberto Duran film has just appeared on Sky.
Hmm not sure I like being called a knuckle dragging racist there pingu, and yes Iraqis are a great people as are the many Kurds, Turks, Romanians, Afghans and Iranians I've also worked with. In fact I'd take them as my neighbours over half the Brits I know.
Oh and Haysie get it into your skull please Leave voters haven't made this country a laughing stock, that's the fault of the incompetent, self serving, preference seeking politicians who failed to deliver on the result. It's not our fault that we were given 2 options and happened to pick the one that a; nobody expected and b; nobody could deliver.
Finally, when the dust settles on the whole fiasco and you're all waiting in lines for your cabbage soup at the factory / workhouse/ poorhouse/ gulag under the Marxist rule of Corbyn, whilst feral gangs run unchecked through our cities and towns, law and order is no more and the country has renationalised everything and bankrupted itself, you'll look back on these times with a faint nostalgic smile.
In the words of Christy Dunne "If you think were bad wait till you see what's coming after" .
Hmm not sure I like being called a knuckle dragging racist there pingu, and yes Iraqis are a great people as are the many Kurds, Turks, Romanians, Afghans and Iranians I've also worked with. In fact I'd take them as my neighbours over half the Brits I know.
Didn't say you were, apologies if you thought that - You're actually one of the (few) leave voters I respect.
That said, we are leaving because of racist voters that 'want their country back' swinging the vote, with those people using that phrase predominantly or exclusively in reference to border control.
There were leaflets with this on being sent out:
And Facebook adverts like this:
And tweets like this:
Why were those used? Because the leave campaign realised that border control was something that the average person in the street would get on board with, and coaxing Islamophobia out of people would be the most effective use of their campaign budget and win them the most votes.
They cast their net wide - the majority of people were in no way in a position to make an informed choice on whether the EU is good or bad for us financially (on both sides), but they were certainly able to decide if they like foreigners or not.
Sorry to have had a moan pingu I know you weren't referring to me. It's just that there are people who think I'm racist because I have a shaved head, tattoos etc.
They should come see the work our Church does with Asylum Seekers and families in crisis many of which are here just trying to find a better life. We spend time helping to signpost them to resources, to complete paperwork, to claim benefits, sometimes we feed and clothe them using our own money because there's no other help available, sometimes all we can do is listen and try to understand (and there's some fkd up stories which are heartbreaking) and then simply because I voted one way in a referendum I'm branded.
I don't blame individuals, I blame the extremists on both sides. The leave extremists who played the mass immigration we're all doomed card and the remain extremists who said if you vote leave you are a racist bigot.
Its probably a generational thing. many people at my Church voted remain, they are nearly all 18-35, many ex graduates and have always felt European. I am a child of the 60s/70s I never felt European only British and even then English foremost and was nurtured by both the press and TV to have a deep mistrust of Mainland Europe, particularly the French, Italian and German Nations.
Sorry to have had a moan pingu I know you weren't referring to me. It's just that there are people who think I'm racist because I have a shaved head, tattoos etc.
Maybe people that judge others by their appearance, just think you look like a leave voter?
They should come see the work our Church does with Asylum Seekers and families in crisis many of which are here just trying to find a better life. We spend time helping to signpost them to resources, to complete paperwork, to claim benefits, sometimes we feed and clothe them using our own money because there's no other help available, sometimes all we can do is listen and try to understand (and there's some fkd up stories which are heartbreaking) and then simply because I voted one way in a referendum I'm branded.
I have no reason to doubt the veracity of what you say. I am staggered that you are able to combine this with being a leave supporter. I give you the utmost respect for the above.
I don't blame individuals, I blame the extremists on both sides. The leave extremists who played the mass immigration we're all doomed card and the remain extremists who said if you vote leave you are a racist bigot.
This is where our recollections depart again. The leave side produced adverts, and posters illustrating their lies, which were designed to be scary, particularly in the case of old people. I think that the fact that immigration rarely seems to be mentioned these days, but was constantly talked about during the referendum campaign, is proof that the leave side stirred up the immigration issue. Many people were concerned by the prospect of 76million Turks invading the UK. Yet the Turks have been attempting to join the EU for over 30 years, and nothing will change on that anytime soon. We could veto Turkey joining the EU forever, even if other members were in favour of them joining. I cant recall anyone prominent on the remain side calling leavers racist bigots, nor can I remember any adverts or posters to this effect.
Incidentally the so called extremist remain rebels voted three times in Parliament to leave the EU, the leave fanatics didn't. Don't you think that this was strange?
Its probably a generational thing. many people at my Church voted remain, they are nearly all 18-35, many ex graduates and have always felt European. I am a child of the 60s/70s I never felt European only British and even then English foremost and was nurtured by both the press and TV to have a deep mistrust of Mainland Europe, particularly the French, Italian and German Nations.
Hmm not sure I like being called a knuckle dragging racist there pingu, and yes Iraqis are a great people as are the many Kurds, Turks, Romanians, Afghans and Iranians I've also worked with. In fact I'd take them as my neighbours over half the Brits I know.
Strange you feel so so British then?
Oh and Haysie get it into your skull please Leave voters haven't made this country a laughing stock, that's the fault of the incompetent, self serving, preference seeking politicians who failed to deliver on the result. It's not our fault that we were given 2 options and happened to pick the one that a; nobody expected and b; nobody could deliver.
I was merely pointing out that leave voting fanatics in Parliament, have voted against the Withdrawal Agreement three times. This was clearly a case of leave fanatics voting against leaving.
Finally, when the dust settles on the whole fiasco and you're all waiting in lines for your cabbage soup at the factory / workhouse/ poorhouse/ gulag under the Marxist rule of Corbyn, whilst feral gangs run unchecked through our cities and towns, law and order is no more and the country has renationalised everything and bankrupted itself, you'll look back on these times with a faint nostalgic smile.
For which you will blame the EU?
In the words of Christy Dunne "If you think were bad wait till you see what's coming after" .
Why would it be strange that I feel so British. to my mind being British is not about Empire and Rule Britannia and all that cr4p. Its about being proud of what we have given to the world. Its about our heritage, traditions and peculiarities. Its also about compassion, fair play and a sense of if you want to be a part of this nation and contribute then fine if however you want to change this nation to suit your own needs and beliefs then please do not. We are British, our main language is English and our prefered religion is Christianity. Anybody is welcome to live and work here, to raise families and to practice whatever religion and customs they wish and without fear of prejudice or harassment. Another thing about being British is this. I may not agree with everything that you say or believe, but as long as it's not against any of our laws I'll defend to the death your right to say and believe those things.
I was merely pointing out that leave voting fanatics in Parliament, have voted against the Withdrawal Agreement three times. This was clearly a case of leave fanatics voting against leaving.
Hey I absolutely agree. My point was and is you cant blame those of us who voted to leave for the shambolic view that the world now has of our Nation. That lies squarely at the feet of those elected to govern.
For which you will blame the EU?
Not at all the EU doesn't YET have a vote in a General Election. That will be the fault of us all.
Sorry to have had a moan pingu I know you weren't referring to me. It's just that there are people who think I'm racist because I have a shaved head, tattoos etc.
They should come see the work our Church does with Asylum Seekers and families in crisis many of which are here just trying to find a better life. We spend time helping to signpost them to resources, to complete paperwork, to claim benefits, sometimes we feed and clothe them using our own money because there's no other help available, sometimes all we can do is listen and try to understand (and there's some fkd up stories which are heartbreaking) and then simply because I voted one way in a referendum I'm branded.
I don't blame individuals, I blame the extremists on both sides. The leave extremists who played the mass immigration we're all doomed card and the remain extremists who said if you vote leave you are a racist bigot.
Its probably a generational thing. many people at my Church voted remain, they are nearly all 18-35, many ex graduates and have always felt European. I am a child of the 60s/70s I never felt European only British and even then English foremost and was nurtured by both the press and TV to have a deep mistrust of Mainland Europe, particularly the French, Italian and German Nations.
Thank you for the courtesy of the reply.
Mark
Hey Mark, I also have a shaved head, though it’s more based on gerontology and genetics than a lifestyle choice.....regarding the generational viewpoint...spot on...my kids 27-36, all remainers and 2 based in and near London believe “old people have sold their futures down the river”....unfortunately I agree with what JRMogg said “ it will our economy 50 years to recover....” whilst him and his sort have escaped the laws and scrutiny that the eurozone would have enforced on them
Having said all of that, after watching the pantomime last night, led by the ugliest of sisters, John Bercow.....the historical traditions employed in Parliament, baying, cat calling, general old Etonian ways of pontification/language...” delectable depicts..whatever the f Uk bojo said, make me want to 🤮.
The whole system needs abolishing and we need to start again....I can’t see me ever voting again...what’s the point if all i do is by implication, condone that sort of behaviour for 70/140k per year of the public purse
Comments
It shows how polarising Brexit is, as i see it as being completely the opposite.
Many Remainers are perfectly happy to agree to exactly the sort of Brexit that BOTH leave campaigns wanted in 2016. Examples are on this thread, including me and @HAYSIE
It is the Leave side that keep changing position and thwarting Brexit. May's deal was a compromise, but it was hardline Conservatives that stopped it. We could have left 2 years ago, and have secured our economic future by now.
But no. Economic illiterates campaign for a "No Deal" Brexit, when in reality even the most stupid of them knows it will cause major problems and force us to beg for any deal.
You think our MP's not listening, well we (can) get rid of them eventually but not the EU Hierarchy we don't vote them in or do our EPM. They laughed at Nigel when he said we're leaving. World Domination their Vehicle but the wheels about to come off.
The blame for us not having the EU rests squarely on the shoulders of the fanatics in the ERG, it was they that stopped Theresa Mays deal going through.
The vast majority of the sacked remainer Tory rebels voted in favour of the deal, all three times.
Parliament is just as split as the country on Brexit, and this seems unlikely to change, anytime soon.
As far as the UK is concerned, England and Wales voted leave while Scotland and NI voted remain.
In our next election the leave vote is likely to be split between the Tories and the Brexit Party, while remainers are expected to support Labour and the Lib Dems. Whereas the SNP should clean up in Scotland.
MPs are expected to represent their own constituents, show loyalty to their party, vote in favour of whats best for the UK, while probably feeling patriotic to their country.
Doesn't this therefore make Brexit impossible.
Lets say you are a north of England Labour MP and your constituents voted to leave, your party favours remain, your country voted leave, and the UK voted to leave.
Where would your loyalties lie, when you could lose your job voting in favour of what the will of the people, your country, and the UK voted for. As you would be voting against your party.
What if you were an SNP, MP, supporting the will of the people, would mean voting against what your party, your country, and your constituents, favoured.
As far as problems are concerned, the one problem that has stopped us moving forward from the beginning is the Irish border.
Theresa May should have had the balls from day one to tell the DUP that the border was going in the Irish sea.
It is therefore not a case of solving one problem, and another one popping up. We have had one problem from the start that we haven't solved.
The rest of the Withdrawal Agreement was agreed fairly quickly.
How much we owe, and citizens rights, how difficult was that?
Almost 30 months to not solve the Irish border problem.
The MPs that I feel contempt for are those that were members of the Anyone But Boris Campaign, that abandoned their principles, as soon as it became clear he would win the leadership election, and became lickers of his ar5e, just to get a Cabinet job.
If I had to list the reasons for the disdain I feel for the nasty, horrible ERG, I would be here all night
In 2016 my thinking at the start of the referendum campaign, not really feeling sufficiently well-informed to be voting on something like this, was "I'm planning to vote remain because if I'm wrong, it seems like a less catastrophic mistake than leaving would be - However, I'm willing to listen to arguments from both sides".
The leave campaign failed to do anything for me - the Brexit Bus was fishy to me from the start. The leave campaign, rather than telling me about how we'd benefit from leaving the EU, were sending out leaflets with messages like "Turkey might join the EU and let Iraqis and Syrians into the UK", when anyone who bothered to do any research whatsoever could tell you that Turkey ain't getting into the EU any time soon - Besides, what's wrong with Iraqi and Syrian people anyway? Small sample size but 100% of the Syrian people I've met were lovely. I've met a grand total of zero Iraqis but I'm sure they're lovely, too.
Ultimately, all the xenophobia from the leave campaign had pushed me so far towards voting remain that it would have taken a very convincing argument that leaving would be financially beneficial for it to get my vote. That never came close to happening.
Now, the whole leaving process has been an absolute clusterf*ck, the £ has fallen through the floor, the country is more divided than anything I've seen in my lifetime, and the Tories have been unbelievably incompetent. I'm learning new languages so that I potentially have more places to GTFO if the country continues on its current downward trajectory, because I don't fancy being stuck on an island with Tories and racists.
It angers me that I'm potentially looking at giving up my freedom of movement (among other things, but that's the biggest one for me personally), and the benefits opportunities that come with that, when I see no benefits to us leaving, all so that some knuckle-dragging racist can "have their country back", whatever tf that means. It hurts to see so many of my friends afraid of not having certain EU laws that currently protect them from some of the changes the Tories will undoubtedly make once we're out of the EU.
We have a generation of voters who overwhelmingly voted to remain, who will be most affected by us leaving, and are looking at possibly being taken out of the EU without a deal. We're alienated by a party that admitted within the last few days that one reason for wanting to call a general election now is that less students would be registered to vote, so that it can increase its chances of getting a majority and making sure we leave the EU on the 31st October. No wonder we're all 'remoaners'...
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/a-reminder-of-all-the-brexiteers-who-appeared-in-the-paradise-papers-as-eu-tax-avoidance-legislation-looms/03/09/?fbclid=IwAR3LCVBqbdA4E-_HHbbPzI6wzPV-C-_OrTZN6oxrp8BtnmjIxlysrNt-Jfg
Oh and Haysie get it into your skull please Leave voters haven't made this country a laughing stock, that's the fault of the incompetent, self serving, preference seeking politicians who failed to deliver on the result. It's not our fault that we were given 2 options and happened to pick the one that a; nobody expected and b; nobody could deliver.
Finally, when the dust settles on the whole fiasco and you're all waiting in lines for your cabbage soup at the factory / workhouse/ poorhouse/ gulag under the Marxist rule of Corbyn, whilst feral gangs run unchecked through our cities and towns, law and order is no more and the country has renationalised everything and bankrupted itself, you'll look back on these times with a faint nostalgic smile.
In the words of Christy Dunne "If you think were bad wait till you see what's coming after" .
The Tories took the UK into the EU, why do you think they don't want to leave?
That said, we are leaving because of racist voters that 'want their country back' swinging the vote, with those people using that phrase predominantly or exclusively in reference to border control.
There were leaflets with this on being sent out:
And Facebook adverts like this:
And tweets like this:
Why were those used? Because the leave campaign realised that border control was something that the average person in the street would get on board with, and coaxing Islamophobia out of people would be the most effective use of their campaign budget and win them the most votes.
They cast their net wide - the majority of people were in no way in a position to make an informed choice on whether the EU is good or bad for us financially (on both sides), but they were certainly able to decide if they like foreigners or not.
They should come see the work our Church does with Asylum Seekers and families in crisis many of which are here just trying to find a better life. We spend time helping to signpost them to resources, to complete paperwork, to claim benefits, sometimes we feed and clothe them using our own money because there's no other help available, sometimes all we can do is listen and try to understand (and there's some fkd up stories which are heartbreaking) and then simply because I voted one way in a referendum I'm branded.
I don't blame individuals, I blame the extremists on both sides. The leave extremists who played the mass immigration we're all doomed card and the remain extremists who said if you vote leave you are a racist bigot.
Its probably a generational thing. many people at my Church voted remain, they are nearly all 18-35, many ex graduates and have always felt European. I am a child of the 60s/70s I never felt European only British and even then English foremost and was nurtured by both the press and TV to have a deep mistrust of Mainland Europe, particularly the French, Italian and German Nations.
Thank you for the courtesy of the reply.
Mark
Strange you feel so so British then?
Why would it be strange that I feel so British. to my mind being British is not about Empire and Rule Britannia and all that cr4p. Its about being proud of what we have given to the world. Its about our heritage, traditions and peculiarities. Its also about compassion, fair play and a sense of if you want to be a part of this nation and contribute then fine if however you want to change this nation to suit your own needs and beliefs then please do not. We are British, our main language is English and our prefered religion is Christianity. Anybody is welcome to live and work here, to raise families and to practice whatever religion and customs they wish and without fear of prejudice or harassment.
Another thing about being British is this. I may not agree with everything that you say or believe, but as long as it's not against any of our laws I'll defend to the death your right to say and believe those things.
I was merely pointing out that leave voting fanatics in Parliament, have voted against the Withdrawal Agreement three times.
This was clearly a case of leave fanatics voting against leaving.
Hey I absolutely agree. My point was and is you cant blame those of us who voted to leave for the shambolic view that the world now has of our Nation. That lies squarely at the feet of those elected to govern.
For which you will blame the EU?
Not at all the EU doesn't YET have a vote in a General Election. That will be the fault of us all.