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The "Don't Call It A Bankroll Challenge" Challenge
NOSTRI
Member Posts: 1,459
I've seen the bankroll challenges dotted around the forum and quite enjoyed following some of them, so I have decided to do something similar. But this won't be a bankroll challenge. I've been modestly profitable on Sky for over two years now but have had limited success at moving up in stakes, so I feel it may be useful to keep a running diary of my progress in that regard and perhaps benefit from the advice of mid/high stakes regulars on here and generally being more accountable and critical about my performance.
As noted, not a bankroll challenge, but for the sake of context this is where I'm at right now: I've played 370 MTTs this year with an average buy-in of £8.71. I've cashed just shy of £2,000 for a 26% ROI, which is already half as much as my total 2019 cashes. I'll put a chart in this post somewhere. However I am getting crushed in the Mini mains and the higher buy-ins I've started playing, which consist of the 7 at 7, the occasional £11 Bounty Hunter, and whatever else I can satellite into. In those tournaments specifically, I have £236 in buy-ins and only £28 overall profit. I also have countless final tables and heads ups overall but only, I think, three or four outright wins, which is disheartening.
I've been doing well enough in my other tournaments that I haven't put too much thought into what's going wrong but from in this thread I'm going to try and make an effort to post a short post-mortem after tournaments, identify any mistakes I made and solicit some advice. I am currently studying for a degree after deciding to switch careers a few years ago and my overall goal is to be able to replace the need for a part time job during this time and continue to supplement my primary income once I graduate. If I can start producing results in these medium stakes buy-ins and maintain my current ROI I will essentially have met that goal. I'm considering some coaching to help push me over the edge but we'll see how this goes first. Feel free to PM me if you have experience coaching MTTs.
I'll get the ball rolling with a short summary of the year in medium stakes so far, with a guest appearance from a high roller event.
- I've got 25 Mini main event entries and busted out of the money in 10 of them. Biggest cash so far was £25.75 but I have no idea what position I finished as I don't keep track of that. (I track this data by copying it from my account history, which doesn't record finish position.) Three of these are Mini Major entries but I have yet to cash it.
- I'm roughly break even on the 7 at 7 with one decent finish and a series of duds.
- I've satellited into two main events this year and finished outside the money both times, though I did make it profitable with a few bounties adding up to £22.
- I won a freeroll into the £6k HR Summit Bounty Hunter a few weeks ago, which is a £110 entry and was obviously exciting to get a chance to play. I got close to cashing this but was incredibly card dead for most of it. I ultimately settled for a single bounty adding up to £37.50. The person I busted proceeded to dust off 6 or 7 rebuys and eventually busted me back. I hope he made his money back.
- My most recent medium tournament was the £6k Marksman last night which I got into off a direct satellite. I was ahead of the average for most of it and playing rather well. Then I got dealt KQo in MP with around 30bb. I opened 3x and got called by the BB with 67bb. Flopped an open-ender on JsTc7h and bet just under half pot, expecting to get called by jacks, tens, and various A-high hands. The turn was an ace giving me the straight and I bet again for a quarter pot, which I think now was terrible. I suppose I was trying to keep small pairs and draws in or induce a raise but I don't recall. I think a standard value bet or a check-raise would have been much better. I got raised all-in and snap-called. Villain had two pair with AhTh and the river was, of course, another ace, giving them the full house. Don't think there was any getting away from that one and I busted with no cash and no bounties. I see from the results thread that the person who busted me eventually took fifth, so well done him.
Omwards and upwards. See you in the satellites.
Vague goals for the year:
- Final table Mini Mains
- Cash Mains
- Still not a bankroll challenge but £5k+ overall profit would be fine
Current standings:
- 0 Mini Main FT's
- 0 Main cashes
- £416.26 overall profit
As noted, not a bankroll challenge, but for the sake of context this is where I'm at right now: I've played 370 MTTs this year with an average buy-in of £8.71. I've cashed just shy of £2,000 for a 26% ROI, which is already half as much as my total 2019 cashes. I'll put a chart in this post somewhere. However I am getting crushed in the Mini mains and the higher buy-ins I've started playing, which consist of the 7 at 7, the occasional £11 Bounty Hunter, and whatever else I can satellite into. In those tournaments specifically, I have £236 in buy-ins and only £28 overall profit. I also have countless final tables and heads ups overall but only, I think, three or four outright wins, which is disheartening.
I've been doing well enough in my other tournaments that I haven't put too much thought into what's going wrong but from in this thread I'm going to try and make an effort to post a short post-mortem after tournaments, identify any mistakes I made and solicit some advice. I am currently studying for a degree after deciding to switch careers a few years ago and my overall goal is to be able to replace the need for a part time job during this time and continue to supplement my primary income once I graduate. If I can start producing results in these medium stakes buy-ins and maintain my current ROI I will essentially have met that goal. I'm considering some coaching to help push me over the edge but we'll see how this goes first. Feel free to PM me if you have experience coaching MTTs.
I'll get the ball rolling with a short summary of the year in medium stakes so far, with a guest appearance from a high roller event.
- I've got 25 Mini main event entries and busted out of the money in 10 of them. Biggest cash so far was £25.75 but I have no idea what position I finished as I don't keep track of that. (I track this data by copying it from my account history, which doesn't record finish position.) Three of these are Mini Major entries but I have yet to cash it.
- I'm roughly break even on the 7 at 7 with one decent finish and a series of duds.
- I've satellited into two main events this year and finished outside the money both times, though I did make it profitable with a few bounties adding up to £22.
- I won a freeroll into the £6k HR Summit Bounty Hunter a few weeks ago, which is a £110 entry and was obviously exciting to get a chance to play. I got close to cashing this but was incredibly card dead for most of it. I ultimately settled for a single bounty adding up to £37.50. The person I busted proceeded to dust off 6 or 7 rebuys and eventually busted me back. I hope he made his money back.
- My most recent medium tournament was the £6k Marksman last night which I got into off a direct satellite. I was ahead of the average for most of it and playing rather well. Then I got dealt KQo in MP with around 30bb. I opened 3x and got called by the BB with 67bb. Flopped an open-ender on JsTc7h and bet just under half pot, expecting to get called by jacks, tens, and various A-high hands. The turn was an ace giving me the straight and I bet again for a quarter pot, which I think now was terrible. I suppose I was trying to keep small pairs and draws in or induce a raise but I don't recall. I think a standard value bet or a check-raise would have been much better. I got raised all-in and snap-called. Villain had two pair with AhTh and the river was, of course, another ace, giving them the full house. Don't think there was any getting away from that one and I busted with no cash and no bounties. I see from the results thread that the person who busted me eventually took fifth, so well done him.
Omwards and upwards. See you in the satellites.
Vague goals for the year:
- Final table Mini Mains
- Cash Mains
- Still not a bankroll challenge but £5k+ overall profit would be fine
Current standings:
- 0 Mini Main FT's
- 0 Main cashes
- £416.26 overall profit
Comments
This looks really interesting, will follow with interest.
2 or 3 questions to get the ball rolling.
What Degree (subject) are you studying for & what career do you hope to get into?
I don't quite understand this sentence, unless I'm mis-reading it;
"I've played 370 MTTs this year with an average buy-in of £8.71. I've cashed just shy of £2,000 for a 26% ROI..."
I can't make those maths work.
Anyway, VBOL with this.
Can't account for any errors since I have a spreadsheet doing the math on data copied directly from here and I'm a thicko myself. The ABI my spreadsheet gives me is skewed up by rebuys, so a £5 buyin plus rebuy looks like a £10 buyin on my spreadsheet, which I guess is why ABI x Count doesn't add up, assuming that's what you tried to do.
No idea. But £1,983 cashed on £1,566 buy-ins is my actual count to date.
Not sure you sound like a "thicko" to me.
And yes, it's probably rebuys which have messed up my math(s). I simply multiplied the 370 MTT's by the ABI of £8.81 & could not get a number that fitted your 26% ROI, but if you cashed for £1,983 on buy-ins of £1,566 then 26% makes sense even to me.
VBOL, I think this will be an absorbing read.
You come across as a level headed intelligent guy, good luck with this, I will follow with interest , I don’t play at the £11+ stakes so can’t make any comment to “help” in awkward spots , it’s fab when the better players give insight into play so I look forward to seeing certain hands analysed.
Good to see another diary on the forum too
Diarying can be equal parts motivational, inspirational and some other ationals I can't think of right now but also can be something of a pain, especially when downswinging. All the best with it.
Good luck with the diary
Gl friend
As you seem to like delving deeply into results, you may want to opt yourself in to Sharkscope - it's really rather flexible in terms of the different filters you can play around with to see where you're doing well or badly.
Also, from reading your op, don't get too hung up on short term results and small sample sizes as MTT variance can take a loooooong time to even itself out!
glgl
One of my biggest leaks with the Mains is forgetting to untick the "Hide Sats" button, so I was left with only one opportunity to get in by the time I remembered. I came fourth so that was off the table.
Started well in the Mini on a pretty soft table but quickly realised the player on my direct left was the type to open limp from any position, call wide, and 3bet-jam 50+bbs with any connection to the flop. I always feel pretty handcuffed in these situations. The best way I know how to react here is to tighten up pre and not get OOL postflop. I begrudgingly stuck to that and watched my stack dwindle at a steady clip while I prayed for a redraw. I lost a large chunk of my stack with QJo in the CO in a three-way pot. Flopped top pair on Jh7s8h, called a 1/2 pot cbet and got another call behind from the maniac. Turn 3d, maniac donk-jams 82bb, original c-better calls, and I made an easy fold. Maniac showed up with the nut flush draw and the caller had Th9h for a straight with a flush draw, which held up.
I had 12bb left at this point and got 77 in the next hand, which I jammed into a min-open and a call and lost to AQo. Pretty sure this was far too light, and HRC agrees (shouldn't be jamming worse than 99 or 5.4% of hands here) but I was pretty frustrated by this point and wanted to either double up or go to bed. On the up side, I'm learning a lot from checking my lines in HRC (Holdem Resources Calculator, it's free and very useful).
I've been good at just ending the session when things aren't going my way this year but I ignored that today in pursuit of getting my first day out on the books for this thread. Lesson learned, off to bed.
77 sim sounds off - are you sure you're not looking at what range to overcall versus jam and a call, rather than open and call?
I've played a bit against you in some 1rs etc and I think being more aggressive in the later stages will help a lot with your conundrum of making lots of final tables but not winning too many outright. Obviously you need to know your opponents as there are players who are never folding bottom pair over three streets, but in general knowing what you're doing with aggression will increase your win rate tremendously. Also if you're too tight overall the better players can make big laydowns against you when you have a value hand that should be getting paid.
Glgl!
I had the stacks for some of the players out by a few blinds, so first thing I did was fix that. The only stack I don't know is the BU, but he didn't play this hand so it's not incredibly relevant. I know he was the deepest on the table so I've guessed and given him 65-ish bb (if anything, he was even deeper). We're using chipEV calculations, since ICM is not a factor yet.
---
Here is what HRC says about an UTG min-open and MP call. Only 5.6% of hands should be jamming, no worse than 99:
If MP folds instead of flatting, I can jam over the UTG open with 77 but it's only slightly profitable:
I think the key here is that UTG should be fairly tight (13%) with only 21bb and, as I guessed last night, MP can only profitably flat a very tight range (5%). If we double UTG's stack he can open slightly wider and 88 becomes a jam but still not 77.
But I think the more immediate concern is the call behind from MP. If we assume MP is overcalling--in the following screenshot I've added some suited aces, some suited kings, some suited connectors, and some worse pairs, which seems very generous, 77 once again becomes a very slightly profitable jam:
If UTG had folded and it were MP that opened, once again 77 becomes a good but only slightly profitable jam:
My takeaway here is that 77 is pretty much not worth jamming here vs an UTG open and even worse with MP flatting. If UTG and MP are playing well, they will rarely have worse. Even under optimal conditions, where UTG and MP are playing looser than recommended, it's only slightly profitable.
For what it's worth, I have little reason to think UTG or MP were morons with no significant notes made on either. I had MP tagged as a weak player, so giving them a wider flatting range is not out of the question, but I don't have enough information on them to be sure about what they're flatting with here. While I doubt they were playing optimal ranges I am not sure they were playing badly enough to make 77 a slam dunk jam. Nevertheless, with only 12bb and the blinds a few hands away, it may be that this was about as good as it's going to get for me.
Thoughts?
Assuming the calculator just assumes your fold equity is very low for this not to be profitable. Not sure if that changes as oppo stacks increase or anything - not sure how smart this tool is