In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : This. If bots existed, it would be very simple to disrupt their "predicted thinking", but frankly, I've never once believed they do, it's just "old wives tales". Think motive. And as no credible motive exists, why should bots exist? Posted by Tikay10
Money is a good motive no??
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL!: In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : I never said I did not want bots in my game. I am unsure which way to go on this as I`m pretty sure if you knew you had a bot at your table it would be exploitable. Im not really committing myself either way on this atm on wether I would want/mind one at my table or not. Its just if it were me, and i found out I could get a bot to do this for me 14hrs / day, I would get one. He cant really be enjoying himself but who knows maybe he is. Since this thread went up, I have been looking into these bots, and its pretty fascinating what goes on tbh. Definitely an eye opener. Posted by OMahonyO
Does everyone who works a full time job enjoy it? do they enjoy it constantly every monday morning and every time they have to stay to get some important work done? Not everyone plays poker just for fun some play it just to make money.
Limit games are much more conducive to bots because the bet sizing is not optional so it cant be faced with a double pot bet etc. Human emotions and illogical plays are the way to beat bots !!
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL!: In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : Your logic is flawed, with due respect. If bots existed, how would they be made? Correct. A piece of software. Pieces of clever software cost money to make once, & can then be replicated indefinitely (& sold) at almost no cost. See "windows" operating software, which costs less than $1 a copy to make. So if it were credible, &, as you suggest, they could all bonus grind all day & night for ever, every single poker site would be chock-full of them. And yet, in the 12 or 13 years since I've known Online Poker - pretty much since it began - not one soul has ever provided one shred of credible evidence that they exist. Do you know how many Clients a site like, say, PokerStars, or Sky Poker, has signed up? And yet not one of them (us) have ever detected one of these bots...... Anyway, we all believe what we believe, & each to their own. People watch Big Brother, go to the movies, buy "The Sun" or the Daily Mail", there's no accounting for taste! Happy bot-hunting. But this is Sky Poker, & I state as a fact, there are no bots here. End of. Posted by Tikay10
There have been reports of bots playing on alot of the smaller skins for a long time (mainly on the limit games), though history has told us to be more fearful of the owners of the site! I am confident in Skys credibility and in the fact that the flash player has probably stumped some of the world class hackers :0
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL!: In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : But some folks actually fall for this sort of nonsense! And then complaain that they have been ripped off.... Go figure. Posted by Tikay10
Downloading cracked or not paid for software for poker has got to be one of the funniest/stupidest things you can ever do!!!!
I played a game once where scripting became rife, someone created the ultimate script that could do everything, and everyone who used it had to enter their login details so it could automate their actions. Once it had spread the creator posted in the forums that scripting was bad and deleted everyone single account that had used the script. It was brilliant !!!
can i just add to this topic , boku87 type it on google theres a video on him playing 50 tables at a time while he was doing a challenge so as apposed to cheating hes probably not . That been said there are such things as super users who can see whole cards , absoulte poker and ultimatbet poker this has happened on thats all i know of there names are pottripper and nionio if you want to search in google . these types of players get gready and thats why they get caught there bb/100 is ridiculous Posted by timebomb10
As per the cases you stated though, superusers need to be connected on the inside to get connected to the server. These cases were very public when found and i think security at sites would not allow this to happen now lessons have been learnt
can i just add to this topic , boku87 type it on google theres a video on him playing 50 tables at a time while he was doing a challenge so as apposed to cheating hes probably not . That been said there are such things as super users who can see whole cards , absoulte poker and ultimatbet poker this has happened on thats all i know of there names are pottripper and nionio if you want to search in google . these types of players get gready and thats why they get caught there bb/100 is ridiculous Posted by timebomb10
What has that got to do with "bots", please?
The UltimateBet & Absolute Poker stories are well-debated, & factual, though some years old, but, bizarrely, it's not impacted upon those Site's traffic or on Mr Hellmuth, who is closely associated with both.
The UB/potripper/nionoi debacle was outright & proven human fraud, nothing to do with bots.
just a statment that i dont think theres bots but super users and the boku87 challenge 50 tabling to clarify that it is possible to do without no assitantce
After seeing how UB's & Absolutes security obviously failed to allow these people to do this, Could you EVER bring yourself to trust any money on those particular sites again??
I know the fraud is that of specific people and not the company but i just could not bring myself to deposit on a site where this had occured. I am VERY supprised to see you write that there was no reduction in traffic to these sites
Tikay, After seeing how UB's & Absolutes security obviously failed to allow these people to do this, Could you EVER bring yourself to trust any money on those particular sites again?? I know the fraud is that of specific people and not the company but i just could not bring myself to deposit on a site where this had occured. I am VERY supprised to see you write that there was no reduction in traffic to these sites Posted by ACESOVER8s
No - not while I had breath in my body. Ever ever ever. But people still do.
Tikay, After seeing how UB's & Absolutes security obviously failed to allow these people to do this, Could you EVER bring yourself to trust any money on those particular sites again?? I know the fraud is that of specific people and not the company but i just could not bring myself to deposit on a site where this had occured. I am VERY supprised to see you write that there was no reduction in traffic to these sites Posted by ACESOVER8s
There was a huge reduction, but they went on a charm offensive, offered "reload bonuses" galiore, & poker players, by nature, have very short memories, so the company's traffic & revenues recovered, though not, it's true, to their previous levels.
And it does not appear to have impacted upon Mr Hellmuth's image one iota. People never ask him about his association with UB, or what that implies.
It is the only known case of a "super-user" in the history of Online Poker AFAIK, & to be fair to UB, it was not a company policy, it was two unscrupulous & very stupid individuals who worked there, & these who suffered at the hands of the super-users were eventually compensated to some degree. The sin of UB, in my eyes, was that they KNEW it had happened, but chose to deny it publically for a very long time. That is unforgiveable.
I remember reading about this when the story broke. Fascinating stuff. The most unbelievable thing about it is the greed and foolishness. I think the final straw was when potripper called an all in when heads up in a big tourney with 10 high which was actually the best hand.
I mean, this could still be going now if they had more sense. They couldve settled for 3rd or 4th to try to keep under the radar.
Tikay, After seeing how UB's & Absolutes security obviously failed to allow these people to do this, Could you EVER bring yourself to trust any money on those particular sites again?? I know the fraud is that of specific people and not the company but i just could not bring myself to deposit on a site where this had occured. I am VERY supprised to see you write that there was no reduction in traffic to these sites Posted by ACESOVER8s
I'd be more than happy to play on there/have some money on there if they had handled what happened better. There was not enough transparency or effort to clean up the site and be open about what happened. It wasn't like it was the sites fault it was specific people with too much control (though obviously the way to see cards should never have been implemented). The fact that Hellmuth still accepts money from them is disgusting to say the least.
There was a huge reduction in the number of industry knowleadgable people who played on there but still a ton of people who had no clue about what had gone on. The fact they all didn't know anything had happened meant there were often also the weaker players so the running joke was that if you had any brains you had to go back because the standard was so soft.
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : I'd be more than happy to play on there/have some money on there if they had handled what happened better. There was not enough transparency or effort to clean up the site and be open about what happened. It wasn't like it was the sites fault it was specific people with too much control (though obviously the way to see cards should never have been implemented). The fact that Hellmuth still accepts money from them is disgusting to say the least. There was a huge reduction in the number of industry knowleadgable people who played on there but still a ton of people who had no clue about what had gone on. The fact they all didn't know anything had happened meant there were often also the weaker players so the running joke was that if you had any brains you had to go back because the standard was so soft. Posted by beaneh
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : I'd be more than happy to play on there/have some money on there if they had handled what happened better. There was not enough transparency or effort to clean up the site and be open about what happened. It wasn't like it was the sites fault it was specific people with too much control (though obviously the way to see cards should never have been implemented). The fact that Hellmuth still accepts money from them is disgusting to say the least. There was a huge reduction in the number of industry knowleadgable people who played on there but still a ton of people who had no clue about what had gone on. The fact they all didn't know anything had happened meant there were often also the weaker players so the running joke was that if you had any brains you had to go back because the standard was so soft. Posted by beaneh
Cheers for the reply Beaneh,
I'm pretty sure all sites would need a way to see all the cards though as they would have to be able to check holdings and play for fraud investigation (although this account doesn't need to be able to do it in real time i suppose). Sky themselves have this ability as they use it on the shows (and no i'm not implying this is possible to occur on here lol - Back to Area 51 with you conspiracy theories lol)
On point 2 highlighted I couldn't agree with you more (although nothing Hellmuth does can supprise me anymore) - How a player who classes himself as the greatest tournament player of all time can associate his reputation with a compny guilty of the most famous Poker Scam of all time is beyond me. He must have a far more impressive sponsership deal than any other pro in history to make it worth his while
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : Cheers for the reply Beaneh, I'm pretty sure all sites would need a way to see all the cards though as they would have to be able to check holdings and play for fraud investigation (although this account doesn't need to be able to do it in real time i suppose). Sky themselves have this ability as they use it on the shows (and no i'm not implying this is possible to occur on here lol - Back to Area 51 with you conspiracy theories lol) On point 2 highlighted I couldn't agree with you more (although nothing Hellmuth does can supprise me anymore) - How a player who classes himself as the greatest tournament player of all time can associate his reputation with a compny guilty of the most famous Poker Scam of all time is beyond me. He must have a far more impressive sponsership deal than any other pro in history to make it worth his while Posted by ACESOVER8s
Someone at EVERY site could do it, but there are very rigorous controls on who can.
Contrary to what you say, the stuff you see on the Sky Poker Channel is not because "someone can see the cards", ALL & EVERY hand shown is shown retrospectively, NEVER live. Because nobody at the Channel can see hole cards while they are in play.
Mr Hellmuth's association with UB is not via a sponsorship deal as such, it's because he owns a slice of the action. So the more he promotes UB's name......
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : Someone at EVERY site could do it, but there are very rigorous controls on who can. Contrary to what you say, the stuff you see on the Sky Poker Channel is not because "someone can see the cards", ALL & EVERY hand shown is shown retrospectively, NEVER live. Because nobody at the Channel can see hole cards while they are in play. Mr Hellmuth's association with UB is not via a sponsorship deal as such, it's because he owns a slice of the action. So the more he promotes UB's name...... Posted by Tikay10
In fairness i did say the account didn't have to do it in real time just that each site had to have the ability to see all cards in play, and i was very carefull in qualifying that I did not beleive a scandal like this could happen here - But i understand why you make the point.
Did he own part of the site during the scandal? actually that doesn't matter, being associated at any point in this would make me feel lower than a snakes belly and i would have moved quickly away.
Do you remember Ratners Jewellers???? 1 sentance brought down an empire because it tarnished the product & reputation, i can't beleive that a scam like this didn't close this company for good
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : Cheers for the reply Beaneh, I'm pretty sure all sites would need a way to see all the cards though as they would have to be able to check holdings and play for fraud investigation (although this account doesn't need to be able to do it in real time i suppose). Sky themselves have this ability as they use it on the shows (and no i'm not implying this is possible to occur on here lol - Back to Area 51 with you conspiracy theories lol) On point 2 highlighted I couldn't agree with you more (although nothing Hellmuth does can supprise me anymore) - How a player who classes himself as the greatest tournament player of all time can associate his reputation with a compny guilty of the most famous Poker Scam of all time is beyond me. He must have a far more impressive sponsership deal than any other pro in history to make it worth his while Posted by ACESOVER8s
What tilts me is that he plays off this image of always integrity and longevity in the industry and yet he didn't come straight out and say something along the lines of
W T F how could you do that?
I resign!?
zomg they cheated at ub and are covering it up
zomg annie, annie quit your sponsorship deal they're cheats and wont admit it.
Rather than quietly saying nothing, and keeping on taking money and wearing UB stuff and making a grand entrance on a chariot. He's a disgrace.
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : What tilts me is that he plays off this image of always integrity and longevity in the industry and yet he didn't come straight out and say something along the lines of W T F how could you do that? I resign!? zomg they cheated at ub and are covering it up zomg annie, annie quit your sponsorship deal they're cheats and wont admit it. Rather than quietly saying nothing, and keeping on taking money and wearing UB stuff and making a grand entrance on a chariot. He's a disgrace. Posted by beaneh
cant believe i,ve bin sussed ok better shutdown/reeboot and get me daughter to reprograme/back in ten a much better player....i wish i were a bot,theres to much thinking in this game me head hurts
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : In fairness i did say the account didn't have to do it in real time just that each site had to have the ability to see all cards in play, and i was very carefull in qualifying that I did not beleive a scandal like this could happen here - But i understand why you make the point. Did he own part of the site during the scandal? actually that doesn't matter, being associated at any point in this would make me feel lower than a snakes belly and i would have moved quickly away. Do you remember Ratners Jewellers???? 1 sentance brought down an empire because it tarnished the product & reputation, i can't beleive that a scam like this didn't close this company for good Posted by ACESOVER8s
".....We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, "how can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total ****"".
He went on to say, further, that Ratner's ear-rings were "cheaper than a Marks & Sparks prawn sandwich but probably wouldn't last as long".
They lasted longer than him though - he was gone within weeks, Ratners quoted value plummeted by more than half a billion, & it was soon renamed Signet Group.
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : Sure do. Mr Gerald Ratner, whilst Chief Executiver of Ratner Group, said..... ".....We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say , "h ow can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total ****"". He went on to say, further, that Ratner's ear-rings were "cheaper than a Marks & Sparks prawn sandwich but probably wouldn't last as long". They lasted longer than him though - he was gone within weeks, Ratners quoted value plummeted by more than half a billion, & it was soon renamed Signet Group. Posted by Tikay10
W T F LOL
I'm off to wikipedia to read up on that. What a numpty.
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : W T F LOL I'm off to wikipedia to read up on that. What a numpty. Posted by beaneh
Comments
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : I never said I did not want bots in my game. I am unsure which way to go on this as I`m pretty sure if you knew you had a bot at your table it would be exploitable. Im not really committing myself either way on this atm on wether I would want/mind one at my table or not. Its just if it were me, and i found out I could get a bot to do this for me 14hrs / day, I would get one. He cant really be enjoying himself but who knows maybe he is. Since this thread went up, I have been looking into these bots, and its pretty fascinating what goes on tbh. Definitely an eye opener.
Posted by OMahonyO
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : Your logic is flawed, with due respect. If bots existed, how would they be made? Correct. A piece of software. Pieces of clever software cost money to make once, & can then be replicated indefinitely (& sold) at almost no cost. See "windows" operating software, which costs less than $1 a copy to make. So if it were credible, &, as you suggest, they could all bonus grind all day & night for ever, every single poker site would be chock-full of them. And yet, in the 12 or 13 years since I've known Online Poker - pretty much since it began - not one soul has ever provided one shred of credible evidence that they exist. Do you know how many Clients a site like, say, PokerStars, or Sky Poker, has signed up? And yet not one of them (us) have ever detected one of these bots...... Anyway, we all believe what we believe, & each to their own. People watch Big Brother, go to the movies, buy "The Sun" or the Daily Mail", there's no accounting for taste! Happy bot-hunting. But this is Sky Poker, & I state as a fact, there are no bots here. End of.
Posted by Tikay10
In Response to Re: IS THIS HUMAN OR A BOT? ROBOROVER VERUS THE BOT LOL! : But some folks actually fall for this sort of nonsense! And then complaain that they have been ripped off.... Go figure.
Posted by Tikay10
The UltimateBet & Absolute Poker stories are well-debated, & factual, though some years old, but, bizarrely, it's not impacted upon those Site's traffic or on Mr Hellmuth, who is closely associated with both.
The UB/potripper/nionoi debacle was outright & proven human fraud, nothing to do with bots.
After seeing how UB's & Absolutes security obviously failed to allow these people to do this, Could you EVER bring yourself to trust any money on those particular sites again??
I know the fraud is that of specific people and not the company but i just could not bring myself to deposit on a site where this had occured. I am VERY supprised to see you write that there was no reduction in traffic to these sites
And it does not appear to have impacted upon Mr Hellmuth's image one iota. People never ask him about his association with UB, or what that implies.
It is the only known case of a "super-user" in the history of Online Poker AFAIK, & to be fair to UB, it was not a company policy, it was two unscrupulous & very stupid individuals who worked there, & these who suffered at the hands of the super-users were eventually compensated to some degree. The sin of UB, in my eyes, was that they KNEW it had happened, but chose to deny it publically for a very long time. That is unforgiveable.
I mean, this could still be going now if they had more sense. They couldve settled for 3rd or 4th to try to keep under the radar.
Nice summary.
I'm pretty sure all sites would need a way to see all the cards though as they would have to be able to check holdings and play for fraud investigation (although this account doesn't need to be able to do it in real time i suppose). Sky themselves have this ability as they use it on the shows
On point 2 highlighted I couldn't agree with you more (although nothing Hellmuth does can supprise me anymore) - How a player who classes himself as the greatest tournament player of all time can associate his reputation with a compny guilty of the most famous Poker Scam of all time is beyond me. He must have a far more impressive sponsership deal than any other pro in history to make it worth his while
Contrary to what you say, the stuff you see on the Sky Poker Channel is not because "someone can see the cards", ALL & EVERY hand shown is shown retrospectively, NEVER live. Because nobody at the Channel can see hole cards while they are in play.
Mr Hellmuth's association with UB is not via a sponsorship deal as such, it's because he owns a slice of the action. So the more he promotes UB's name......
Did he own part of the site during the scandal? actually that doesn't matter, being associated at any point in this would make me feel lower than a snakes belly and i would have moved quickly away.
Do you remember Ratners Jewellers???? 1 sentance brought down an empire because it tarnished the product & reputation, i can't beleive that a scam like this didn't close this company for good
".....We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, "how can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total ****"".
He went on to say, further, that Ratner's ear-rings were "cheaper than a Marks & Sparks prawn sandwich but probably wouldn't last as long".
They lasted longer than him though - he was gone within weeks, Ratners quoted value plummeted by more than half a billion, & it was soon renamed Signet Group.
W T F LOL
is he the worse poker bot salesman ever ?
hhtp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it24XQ9JCL8