Fishermen have always b1tched , quotas, prices, tariffs, costs and competition. God forbid they ever have to work in a free market economy.
For decades many farmers got rich off huge subsidies farming and producing stuff for an already saturated market often getting paid to destroy it.
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the Haulage industry and its corrupt practices designed to squeeze owner drivers out and reduce them to minimum wage slaves. The biggest operators are basically owned by the banks anyway.
Adapt or die, survival of the fittest and all that. I've witnessed my City in less than 2 generations go from a vibrant centre of Pottery, Coal and Tyre production to a wasteland of warehousing and distribution where desperate people hump cr4ppy min wage jobs, often two at a time to make a living.
So any sympathy I feel is for the people of my own City and others like it and not for somebody whos gravy train just got derailed.
Fishermen have always b1tched , quotas, prices, tariffs, costs and competition. God forbid they ever have to work in a free market economy.
For decades many farmers got rich off huge subsidies farming and producing stuff for an already saturated market often getting paid to destroy it.
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the Haulage industry and its corrupt practices designed to squeeze owner drivers out and reduce them to minimum wage slaves. The biggest operators are basically owned by the banks anyway.
Adapt or die, survival of the fittest and all that. I've witnessed my City in less than 2 generations go from a vibrant centre of Pottery, Coal and Tyre production to a wasteland of warehousing and distribution where desperate people hump cr4ppy min wage jobs, often two at a time to make a living.
Are you blaming the EU for this? Do you think you will see an improvement because we are now outside the EU?
So any sympathy I feel is for the people of my own City and others like it and not for somebody whos gravy train just got derailed.
Canada targets British farming in wake of Australian trade deal
Canada is seeking to secure sweeping access to the British market for its farmers in trade talks, after UK concessions to Australia threatened to open the floodgates for food imports.
Ottawa believes it can secure an ambitious deal on agriculture in negotiations later this year and hopes to take inspiration from the generous agreement set to be sealed with Australia, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.
It came as Whitehall sources said a trade deal with Australia would pave the way for a New Zealand agreement within weeks, with Wellington expected to be offered similar terms.
Fishermen have always b1tched , quotas, prices, tariffs, costs and competition. God forbid they ever have to work in a free market economy.
For decades many farmers got rich off huge subsidies farming and producing stuff for an already saturated market often getting paid to destroy it.
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the Haulage industry and its corrupt practices designed to squeeze owner drivers out and reduce them to minimum wage slaves. The biggest operators are basically owned by the banks anyway.
Adapt or die, survival of the fittest and all that. I've witnessed my City in less than 2 generations go from a vibrant centre of Pottery, Coal and Tyre production to a wasteland of warehousing and distribution where desperate people hump cr4ppy min wage jobs, often two at a time to make a living.
Are you blaming the EU for this? Do you think you will see an improvement because we are now outside the EU?
So any sympathy I feel is for the people of my own City and others like it and not for somebody whos gravy train just got derailed.
Well, let me think.
Coal was imported from Poland and Germany as our industry was murdered.
Tyre manufacture was switched to France and Germany despite lower production costs in the UK
Oh I forgot Steel, silly me, yes steel production and major fabrication was switched to Germany amongst others and when industry saving deals were struck with China the EU blocked them.
The Pottery Industry is the only one that wasn't decimated for the benefit of other EU Countries although I'm sure that if France or Germany or perhaps Ireland had potbanks it would have happened.
So yes actually I blame the EU for many things, also I find it ironic that many of the people who are clamouring for Great Britain to apologise for all the havoc we reeked during Empire and Colonialism seem to think it's ok for the same thing to go on under the guise of the EU.
Fishermen have always b1tched , quotas, prices, tariffs, costs and competition. God forbid they ever have to work in a free market economy.
For decades many farmers got rich off huge subsidies farming and producing stuff for an already saturated market often getting paid to destroy it.
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the Haulage industry and its corrupt practices designed to squeeze owner drivers out and reduce them to minimum wage slaves. The biggest operators are basically owned by the banks anyway.
Adapt or die, survival of the fittest and all that. I've witnessed my City in less than 2 generations go from a vibrant centre of Pottery, Coal and Tyre production to a wasteland of warehousing and distribution where desperate people hump cr4ppy min wage jobs, often two at a time to make a living.
Are you blaming the EU for this? Do you think you will see an improvement because we are now outside the EU?
So any sympathy I feel is for the people of my own City and others like it and not for somebody whos gravy train just got derailed.
Well, let me think.
Coal was imported from Poland and Germany as our industry was murdered.
Tyre manufacture was switched to France and Germany despite lower production costs in the UK
Oh I forgot Steel, silly me, yes steel production and major fabrication was switched to Germany amongst others and when industry saving deals were struck with China the EU blocked them.
The Pottery Industry is the only one that wasn't decimated for the benefit of other EU Countries although I'm sure that if France or Germany or perhaps Ireland had potbanks it would have happened.
So yes actually I blame the EU for many things, also I find it ironic that many of the people who are clamouring for Great Britain to apologise for all the havoc we reeked during Empire and Colonialism seem to think it's ok for the same thing to go on under the guise of the EU.
You asked, I answered.
'Australia trade deal proves Boris’ Johnson's Brexit boasts are a load of bull'
Boris Johnson’s poor post-Brexit trade deals – starting with the one with Australia – show the desperation of a Prime Minister who sold the country a pup.
Sacrificing British beef and sheep farmers, along with decent food standards, would be another act of national self-harm by this charlatan.
The Aussies know they have him over a barrel. Johnson and International Trade Secretary Liz Truss gave up any bargaining clout by begging for a deal before June’s G7 summit.
Boris Johnson’s poor post-Brexit trade deals – starting with the one with Australia – show the desperation of a Prime Minister who sold the country a pup.
Sacrificing British beef and sheep farmers, along with decent food standards, would be another act of national self-harm by this charlatan.
The Aussies know they have him over a barrel. Johnson and International Trade Secretary Liz Truss gave up any bargaining clout by begging for a deal before June’s G7 summit.
The measly 0.025% UK economic growth over 15 years estimated from an Oz pact by Truss’s department is a drop in the ocean of what Brexit cost.
It amounts to just 1/160th of the 4% the Office for Budget Responsibility calculates will be lost in the period.
Switching negotiations with Brussels some 230 miles away, for Brisbane 10,300 miles on the other side of the world, exposes the PM for what he is – all hot air on the environment.
Every leg of lamb and cut of beef will leave a giant carbon hoof print.
On top of that there’s enough manure to fertilise every inch of farm land from a trio of Brextremist agriculture ministers – George Eustice, Theresa Villiers and Michael Gove.
They vowed imports would never be allowed from lands with worse animal welfare conditions than ours.
The fact remains the Brexit Britain painted by Johnson never existed, starting with that £350m-a-week for the NHS on the side of the red lie bus.
Conned backers and weary opponents want to talk about anything except leaving the European Union.
Labour leader Keir Starmer is among their number.
But Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves and Starmer’s Westminster bag carrier, Washington and Sunderland West MP Sharon Hodgson, who argued the party should be “braver”, are dipping toes in turbulent waters.
A big Tory majority and Covid hid damage from a Brexit the Government trumpeted but now wishes to break, particularly over Northern Ireland.
Labour under Ed Miliband was handicapped by never challenging David Cameron and George Osborne’s fibs that Blair and Brown overspent.
Until it exposes Johnson’s ongoing deceit, he gets away with falsely saying getting Brexit done was good.
I surprises me that you would take such an "I am alright Jack" approach. Many of your posts on other threads suggest that you are a Christian, and as such I would have expected you to show some empathy for those that are suffering from the effects of Brexit. Like those who are losing their jobs/businesses.
Fishermen have always b1tched , quotas, prices, tariffs, costs and competition. God forbid they ever have to work in a free market economy.
The UK’s fishing haul has increased in recent years
The UK’s share of the overall EU fishing catch grew between 2004 and 2014. In 2004 the UK had the fourth largest catch of any EU country at 652,000 tonnes, by 2014 this had grown to 752,000 tonnes and the second largest catch of any country in the EU. https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-pinching-our-fish/
For decades many farmers got rich off huge subsidies farming and producing stuff for an already saturated market often getting paid to destroy it.
Not much truth in that. Its the sort of thing that people say down the pub, with little knowledge of the facts. The good news is that the subsidies used to be paid by the EU, and as we are no longer members, our government will continue to pay them, and that you as a taxpayer will be contributing to them.
Do farmers make more from subsidies than agriculture? - Full Fact fullfact.org/economy/farming-subsidies-uk 11/08/2016 · The Single Payment is a subsidy provided by the EU and distributed by the government to farmers. It made up most of the subsidy farmers received. Most types of English farm make more in subsidies than they do in agriculture. The figure changes from year to year and between various sizes of farm. In 2013/14 the average farm’s profit from agriculture was £6,600, which fell to £2,100 the next year.
Do English farmers make money from subsidies?
The basic point is correct: on average, farmers across the UK make far more money from subsidies than they do from agriculture. Cereal farmers lose money. The exact figures depend on what you class as a ‘subsidy’. On average, English farms made a £39,000 profit last year from their farming business.
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the Haulage industry and its corrupt practices designed to squeeze owner drivers out and reduce them to minimum wage slaves. The biggest operators are basically owned by the banks anyway.
What about the minimum wage slaves? Assuming they are owned by the banks they are probably not making loads of money
Adapt or die, survival of the fittest and all that. I've witnessed my City in less than 2 generations go from a vibrant centre of Pottery, Coal and Tyre production to a wasteland of warehousing and distribution where desperate people hump cr4ppy min wage jobs, often two at a time to make a living.
So you havent adapted? Most people seem to give Mrs Thatcher credit for killing off the coal industry, rather than the EU.
Are you blaming the EU for this? Do you think you will see an improvement because we are now outside the EU?
So any sympathy I feel is for the people of my own City and others like it and not for somebody whos gravy train just got derailed.
There are many, and will be many more, that are in exactly the same boat through Brexit.
Fishermen have always b1tched , quotas, prices, tariffs, costs and competition. God forbid they ever have to work in a free market economy.
For decades many farmers got rich off huge subsidies farming and producing stuff for an already saturated market often getting paid to destroy it.
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the Haulage industry and its corrupt practices designed to squeeze owner drivers out and reduce them to minimum wage slaves. The biggest operators are basically owned by the banks anyway.
Adapt or die, survival of the fittest and all that. I've witnessed my City in less than 2 generations go from a vibrant centre of Pottery, Coal and Tyre production to a wasteland of warehousing and distribution where desperate people hump cr4ppy min wage jobs, often two at a time to make a living.
Are you blaming the EU for this? Do you think you will see an improvement because we are now outside the EU?
So any sympathy I feel is for the people of my own City and others like it and not for somebody whos gravy train just got derailed.
Well, let me think.
You should probably think again.
Coal was imported from Poland and Germany as our industry was murdered.
Who do you think imported it? Was it the EU?
What did Thatcher say about coal?
Thatcher decided that enough was enough, and if the coal industry were to survive, it would have to do it without the special interest group taking cash out of everyone else’s pockets. She also wouldn’t allow them to take the entire nation hostage in what amounted to a form of domestic extortion.
How many jobs were lost before Thatcher came into power?
But what may be missed is that even more mining jobs were lost before Thatcher ever came into power. Over the course of the 1960s and 70s, more than 300,000 coal mining jobs disappeared, while around a million vanished between 1920 and 1980. Thatcher was the coal industry's most visible foe]
How many coal mining jobs were lost under Thatcher?
The historical data shows that while 212,000 coal mining jobs were lost under the 1964-1970 Labour Government, under Mrs. Thatcher’s 1979-1990 government, the percentage decline in jobs was actually double that. 43 per cent of mining jobs went in the 1960s under Wilson while 80 per cent were lost under Thatcher.
Tory spin on coal masks fact that 80 per cent of coal jobs ... leftfootforward.org/2013/04/tory-spin-on-coal... 19/04/2013 · The historical data shows that while 212,000 coal mining jobs were lost under the 1964-1970 Labour Government, under Mrs. Thatcher’s 1979-1990 government, the percentage decline in jobs was actually double that. 43 per cent of mining jobs went in the 1960s under Wilson while 80 per cent were lost under Thatcher.
Tyre manufacture was switched to France and Germany despite lower production costs in the UK
Who switched it?
Oh I forgot Steel, silly me, yes steel production and major fabrication was switched to Germany amongst others and when industry saving deals were struck with China the EU blocked them.
You are mixed up yet again.
UK 'blocked' EU bid to raise China steel tariff that could ... www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3518278 01/04/2016 · Revealed: Britain 'blocked' EU bid to raise China steel tariff that could have protected the industry from cheap imports (but Cameron STILL spends billions on foreign aid) Ministers opposed EU...
British steel: UK Government blocked EU plans to allow ... www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tata... 31/03/2016 · The Government has been accused of “failing to protect” British steel by blocking EU plans to impose tougher sanctions on “aggressive” Chinese steel dumping while the industry stands on the brink...
The Pottery Industry is the only one that wasn't decimated for the benefit of other EU Countries although I'm sure that if France or Germany or perhaps Ireland had potbanks it would have happened.
The pottery industry is protected by the tariffs on Chinese imports that would probably kill it off if they were removed.
So yes actually I blame the EU for many things, also I find it ironic that many of the people who are clamouring for Great Britain to apologise for all the havoc we reeked during Empire and Colonialism seem to think it's ok for the same thing to go on under the guise of the EU.
You asked, I answered.
Yes you did. You are blaming the EU for much that they are not guilty of. And ignoring the fact that for the last 47 years we were members. We played an integral part, and voted in favour of over 90% of their rules.
You also seem oblivious of anything good the EU has been responsible for. For instance workers rights, which you seem to care about.
Fishermen have always b1tched , quotas, prices, tariffs, costs and competition. God forbid they ever have to work in a free market economy.
For decades many farmers got rich off huge subsidies farming and producing stuff for an already saturated market often getting paid to destroy it.
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the Haulage industry and its corrupt practices designed to squeeze owner drivers out and reduce them to minimum wage slaves. The biggest operators are basically owned by the banks anyway.
Adapt or die, survival of the fittest and all that. I've witnessed my City in less than 2 generations go from a vibrant centre of Pottery, Coal and Tyre production to a wasteland of warehousing and distribution where desperate people hump cr4ppy min wage jobs, often two at a time to make a living.
Are you blaming the EU for this? Do you think you will see an improvement because we are now outside the EU?
So any sympathy I feel is for the people of my own City and others like it and not for somebody whos gravy train just got derailed.
Well, let me think.
You should probably think again.
Coal was imported from Poland and Germany as our industry was murdered.
Who do you think imported it? Was it the EU?
What did Thatcher say about coal?
Thatcher decided that enough was enough, and if the coal industry were to survive, it would have to do it without the special interest group taking cash out of everyone else’s pockets. She also wouldn’t allow them to take the entire nation hostage in what amounted to a form of domestic extortion.
How many jobs were lost before Thatcher came into power?
But what may be missed is that even more mining jobs were lost before Thatcher ever came into power. Over the course of the 1960s and 70s, more than 300,000 coal mining jobs disappeared, while around a million vanished between 1920 and 1980. Thatcher was the coal industry's most visible foe]
How many coal mining jobs were lost under Thatcher?
The historical data shows that while 212,000 coal mining jobs were lost under the 1964-1970 Labour Government, under Mrs. Thatcher’s 1979-1990 government, the percentage decline in jobs was actually double that. 43 per cent of mining jobs went in the 1960s under Wilson while 80 per cent were lost under Thatcher.
Tory spin on coal masks fact that 80 per cent of coal jobs ... leftfootforward.org/2013/04/tory-spin-on-coal... 19/04/2013 · The historical data shows that while 212,000 coal mining jobs were lost under the 1964-1970 Labour Government, under Mrs. Thatcher’s 1979-1990 government, the percentage decline in jobs was actually double that. 43 per cent of mining jobs went in the 1960s under Wilson while 80 per cent were lost under Thatcher.
Tyre manufacture was switched to France and Germany despite lower production costs in the UK
Who switched it?
Oh I forgot Steel, silly me, yes steel production and major fabrication was switched to Germany amongst others and when industry saving deals were struck with China the EU blocked them.
You are mixed up yet again.
UK 'blocked' EU bid to raise China steel tariff that could ... www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3518278 01/04/2016 · Revealed: Britain 'blocked' EU bid to raise China steel tariff that could have protected the industry from cheap imports (but Cameron STILL spends billions on foreign aid) Ministers opposed EU...
British steel: UK Government blocked EU plans to allow ... www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tata... 31/03/2016 · The Government has been accused of “failing to protect” British steel by blocking EU plans to impose tougher sanctions on “aggressive” Chinese steel dumping while the industry stands on the brink...
The Pottery Industry is the only one that wasn't decimated for the benefit of other EU Countries although I'm sure that if France or Germany or perhaps Ireland had potbanks it would have happened.
The pottery industry is protected by the tariffs on Chinese imports that would probably kill it off if they were removed.
So yes actually I blame the EU for many things, also I find it ironic that many of the people who are clamouring for Great Britain to apologise for all the havoc we reeked during Empire and Colonialism seem to think it's ok for the same thing to go on under the guise of the EU.
You asked, I answered.
Yes you did. You are blaming the EU for much that they are not guilty of. And ignoring the fact that for the last 47 years we were members. We played an integral part, and voted in favour of over 90% of their rules.
You also seem oblivious of anything good the EU has been responsible for. For instance workers rights, which you seem to care about.
Who switched them?
Goodyear Dunlop dismisses government pleas over plant closure
Business minister Matthew Hancock yesterday insisted that officials were working "extremely hard" to keep the firm in Britain, and stressed "financial aid and new sites remain on the table".
However, Dunlop Motorsport said it remained the case that the key factor in its proposal to shift manufacturing from Birmingham to sites in Europe had always been one of time, and chiefly maintaining uninterrupted supply to its customers.
Earlier this month the company announced plans to move operations out of Erdington, where it has been based for decades, because its lease is ending on the site. Production is due to be shifted to existing plants in France and Germany, putting 241 jobs at risk.
Dromey continued: “They could have moved three miles to Aston. “But a decision was made 3,500 miles away in Ohio to end 125 years of manufacturing in Birmingham.” The first tyres were produced at Fort Dunlop in 1902, and the well-known A-grade locally listed building was designed in the 1920s. Production of motorsport and specialist tyres continued in Fort Dunlop after the cessation of volume tyre production in the 1980s, however the site’s sale to Jaguar Land Rover sealed the fate of tyre production there. When faced with the choice of utilising existing facilities abroad for motorsport tyre production or setting up a new plant nearby, Goodyear management chose the latter.
Please do not attack a man's religion. Just because someone does not share your love for the EU does not mean that they do not care about others, or workers' rights.
The demise of the UK coal industry was, in part, due to the EU, however much you refuse to accept it. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher's desire to crush the Unions and the spirit of the working man was also a factor.
The EU is (or was) supposed to work primarily as a trade body to protect the economic interests of its members. In the early 1980's British coal was the cheapest to produce in the world. Fact. Poland, which was not a member of the EU at that time, decided to flood the EU market with cheaper coal-cheaper only because the Polish Government was subsidising the cost, undercutting UK coal.
The EU sat on its hands and did nothing. No tariffs. No protection. Thatcher did nothing because it suited her. While the EU did nothing whatsoever. Because the UK never received the protection routinely given to the Core EU countries. If that had been a German industry at threat it would never have been allowed to happen.
you are entitled to your opinion. But I would be wary of expounding parts of it in a Welsh mining area.
Please do not attack a man's religion. Just because someone does not share your love for the EU does not mean that they do not care about others, or workers' rights.
The demise of the UK coal industry was, in part, due to the EU, however much you refuse to accept it. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher's desire to crush the Unions and the spirit of the working man was also a factor.
The EU is (or was) supposed to work primarily as a trade body to protect the economic interests of its members. In the early 1980's British coal was the cheapest to produce in the world. Fact. Poland, which was not a member of the EU at that time, decided to flood the EU market with cheaper coal-cheaper only because the Polish Government was subsidising the cost, undercutting UK coal.
The EU sat on its hands and did nothing. No tariffs. No protection. Thatcher did nothing because it suited her. While the EU did nothing whatsoever. Because the UK never received the protection routinely given to the Core EU countries. If that had been a German industry at threat it would never have been allowed to happen.
you are entitled to your opinion. But I would be wary of expounding parts of it in a Welsh mining area.
I am gobsmacked. How dare you suggest that I was attacking the mans religion. I was merely pointing out that the views he has expressed on this thread, contradicted the views that he has expressed on other threads. I dont believe for a minute that he is selfish, nor that he only cares about himself, but that seemed to be the opinion that he was expressing, in his last few posts on this thread.
Also I dont have a love of the EU, my opinion was that we were better in than out.
There is no question that workers rights were improved in this country while we were members of the EU, and that The Tories plan to reduce these rights now that we have left.
Please do not attack a man's religion. Just because someone does not share your love for the EU does not mean that they do not care about others, or workers' rights.
The demise of the UK coal industry was, in part, due to the EU, however much you refuse to accept it. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher's desire to crush the Unions and the spirit of the working man was also a factor.
The EU is (or was) supposed to work primarily as a trade body to protect the economic interests of its members. In the early 1980's British coal was the cheapest to produce in the world. Fact. Poland, which was not a member of the EU at that time, decided to flood the EU market with cheaper coal-cheaper only because the Polish Government was subsidising the cost, undercutting UK coal.
The EU sat on its hands and did nothing. No tariffs. No protection. Thatcher did nothing because it suited her. While the EU did nothing whatsoever. Because the UK never received the protection routinely given to the Core EU countries. If that had been a German industry at threat it would never have been allowed to happen.
you are entitled to your opinion. But I would be wary of expounding parts of it in a Welsh mining area.
I am not sure how far you can go back. Attributing blame is not an exact science. If we still had a coal industry today, we would be closing it down. Our coal Industry lost one million jobs from 1920 to 1980. with little help from the EU. Mrs Thatcher followed this up by cutting 80% of the remaining jobs. All through my youth I can recall figures being bandied about regarding the production costs of a ton of coal. We always seemed to be nearer the bottom than the top of the list of the most economic coal producers. The world is constantly changing, and it doesnt pay to get left behind. The problem in this country is that some people wish to blame the EU for anything bad that happens. This will obviously be difficult in future. I dont think that arguments about the coal industry are at all relevant to Brexit.
Please do not attack a man's religion. Just because someone does not share your love for the EU does not mean that they do not care about others, or workers' rights.
The demise of the UK coal industry was, in part, due to the EU, however much you refuse to accept it. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher's desire to crush the Unions and the spirit of the working man was also a factor.
The EU is (or was) supposed to work primarily as a trade body to protect the economic interests of its members. In the early 1980's British coal was the cheapest to produce in the world. Fact. Poland, which was not a member of the EU at that time, decided to flood the EU market with cheaper coal-cheaper only because the Polish Government was subsidising the cost, undercutting UK coal.
The EU sat on its hands and did nothing. No tariffs. No protection. Thatcher did nothing because it suited her. While the EU did nothing whatsoever. Because the UK never received the protection routinely given to the Core EU countries. If that had been a German industry at threat it would never have been allowed to happen.
you are entitled to your opinion. But I would be wary of expounding parts of it in a Welsh mining area.
I am gobsmacked. How dare you suggest that I was attacking the mans religion. I was merely pointing out that the views he has expressed on this thread, contradicted the views that he has expressed on other threads. I dont believe for a minute that he is selfish, nor that he only cares about himself, but that seemed to be the opinion that he was expressing, in his last few posts on this thread.
Also I dont have a love of the EU, my opinion was that we were better in than out.
There is no question that workers rights were improved in this country while we were members of the EU, and that The Tories plan to reduce these rights now that we have left.
I surprises me that you would take such an "I am alright Jack" approach. Many of your posts on other threads suggest that you are a Christian, and as such I would have expected you to show some empathy for those that are suffering from the effects of Brexit.
You think that this isn't attacking someone's religious beliefs? Really? You think that saying his opinions are Un-Christian is ok? You believe that anyone who first looks at how Brexit is affecting them, and their loved ones "only cares about themself".
I think we all know that you believe that we are better in than out. From a purely economic perspective, so do I. I just don't feel the need to berate anyone who doesn't share your opinion.
Like the UK voters. Or Welsh voters.
But I will leave you to provide the next 1000 posts "proving" that there is only 1 side to a story. Because I have better things to do with my life.
Please do not attack a man's religion. Just because someone does not share your love for the EU does not mean that they do not care about others, or workers' rights.
The demise of the UK coal industry was, in part, due to the EU, however much you refuse to accept it. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher's desire to crush the Unions and the spirit of the working man was also a factor.
The EU is (or was) supposed to work primarily as a trade body to protect the economic interests of its members. In the early 1980's British coal was the cheapest to produce in the world. Fact. Poland, which was not a member of the EU at that time, decided to flood the EU market with cheaper coal-cheaper only because the Polish Government was subsidising the cost, undercutting UK coal.
The EU sat on its hands and did nothing. No tariffs. No protection. Thatcher did nothing because it suited her. While the EU did nothing whatsoever. Because the UK never received the protection routinely given to the Core EU countries. If that had been a German industry at threat it would never have been allowed to happen.
you are entitled to your opinion. But I would be wary of expounding parts of it in a Welsh mining area.
The decline of the UK Coal Industry
The decline of the British coal industry started after the First World War. But was accelerated after the Second World War, and in particular, after the miner’s strike of 1984.
Between 1923 and 1945, employment in the industry fell from 1.2 to 0.8 million, and the British share of the world coal market dropped from 59% to 37%. In part, this can be explained by increased competition, not only from other countries producing coal but also from cheaper substitute fuels. Before 1914 demand for coal was rising at an annual rate of 4%; after the war, British exports of coal plummeted, and domestic demand remained stagnant. Coal in decline
Little more than 60 years after the end of the Second World War, Britain’s last coal mine producer (UK coal) is fighting for survival. Despite producing around 44% of British power needs (from just 39 mines employing 6,000 people – UK Coal) , even the UK coal industry knows it is an industry in decline. As the chairman of UK coal stated:
“I recognise fully that coal, as it is currently used to produce power, has a finite lifetime, because we have to decarbonise the energy supply chain,” he says. “This industry is towards the end of its life. Let’s give it a managed landing, rather than a catastrophic insolvency.” (UK coal makes final bid for survival at Telegraph)
Over time, the UK coal industry has become uncompetitive on a global scale. With higher wages and unit costs of production, coal is cheaper to import from abroad. For example, UK power stations import considerable amounts of coal from Argentina. New Sources of Energy. From the 1960s, the UK discovered cheaper sources of energy, such as north sea gas and oil. Also the nuclear power industry provided a new source of energy. With new energy sources, we became less dependent on coal. Decline in demand for coal. Even as late as the 1960s, British railways were run coal power. But, steam power soon vanished in place of diesel and electric. Households used to burn coal for central heating. But, after the Clean Air Act of the 1950s, this rapidly declined as people switched to more modern forms of central heating. Political Issues. The coal industry had the most powerful unions in the country. Unions were highly organised, often by leaders with strong political (left wing) allegiances. Miners strikes, such as 1924, early 1970s and 1984 Miners strike had the capacity to bring the country to a standstill. Right wing politicians, such as Mrs Thatcher were determined to break the political and economic power of the coal miners. Arguably, the miners strike of 1973 was a key factor in the defeat of the last Conservative government, run by Edward Heath. Mrs Thatcher staked her political fortunes on defeating the coal miners in the 1984 strike. After being on strike for nearly a year, the miners reluctantly drifted back to work – defeated, their political and economic power never recovered. The unions were then powerless to prevent a steady stream of mine closures. Nationalisation. In 1947, the coal mines were nationalised. This was partly ideological and also a reflection of their depressed economic fortunes. Some argue that nationalisation held back the industry. Combined with strong union demands, it was hard to invest and implement new working practises to improve productivity. However, it is not clear a private sector coal industry would have been able to prevent this long-term decline because it was declining even in the 1920s and 1930s. Privatisation. Others suggest that privatisation was the final nail in the coffin for the British coal industries. In the private sector, without government support, the coal industry is struggling to compete against foreign competition.
The Oncoming Storm 8 April 2013 at 6:57 pm Exactly! Britain’s big mistake up until the 1970’s was to fail to develop new industries instead of keeping dying industries like coal going by subsidies because of the political commitment to “Full Employment at all costs.” What we should have done was to encourage the develop of our own Mittelstand. Thatcher certainly made mistakes but if Atlee, Churchill, Macmillan and Wilson had faced up to the underlying reasons for our economic problems Britain would be a very different place today!
Falling demand The economics of the coal industry changed radically after 1957, and demand rapidly fell away in the face of competition from oil and gas. Even so, the British industry was faced with problems of overcapacity and low productivity as marginal mines had been kept in production to meet previous demand. In 1959, the National Coal Board (NCB) produced reduced estimates for future demand and consumption. By 1962, the government was considering the closure of collieries.
Colliery closure The collieries closed during the second half of the 1960s, and successive governments acted to offset the social and political costs. The Conservatives forbade coal imports and taxed fuel oil to make British coal more competitive. Wilson's Labour government acted more directly, and the Coal Industry Act of 1965 allowed the NCB to write off £400 million in debt and ease its financial position. As the industry was rationalised in the late 1960s, the Coal Industry Act of 1967 provided subsidisation of redundancy and early retirement.
BBC ON THIS DAY | 13 | 1975: Miners set for 35 per cent pay rises news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/13/... Coal output also increased to meet the higher production targets set by the NCB. Targets rose to 150 million tonnes over the decade from the 115 million tonnes achieved in 1975. Joseph Gormley presided over a period of relative harmony in the coal industry for the rest of the 1970s and achieved the relatively peaceful closure of 40 pits in that period.
UK government subsidises coal sector with £356 million a year ... www.newscientist.com/article/2130231-uk... 08/05/2017 · In a new report, the international development think tank rated the UK poor on transparency and on phasing out subsidies for coal mining and coal
Coal Subsidies (Hansard, 20 February 1984) - api.parliament.uk api.parliament.uk/.../1984/feb/20/coal-subsidies It is correct to invest heavily in new coal production, because that will be far more efficient and economic for the future. The coal industry has an important part to play in supplying the country's future energy resources. This year the NCB will receive more than £900 million in subsidies, which is equivalent to £90 per miner per week.
Please do not attack a man's religion. Just because someone does not share your love for the EU does not mean that they do not care about others, or workers' rights.
The demise of the UK coal industry was, in part, due to the EU, however much you refuse to accept it. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher's desire to crush the Unions and the spirit of the working man was also a factor.
The EU is (or was) supposed to work primarily as a trade body to protect the economic interests of its members. In the early 1980's British coal was the cheapest to produce in the world. Fact. Poland, which was not a member of the EU at that time, decided to flood the EU market with cheaper coal-cheaper only because the Polish Government was subsidising the cost, undercutting UK coal.
The EU sat on its hands and did nothing. No tariffs. No protection. Thatcher did nothing because it suited her. While the EU did nothing whatsoever. Because the UK never received the protection routinely given to the Core EU countries. If that had been a German industry at threat it would never have been allowed to happen.
you are entitled to your opinion. But I would be wary of expounding parts of it in a Welsh mining area.
I am gobsmacked. How dare you suggest that I was attacking the mans religion. I was merely pointing out that the views he has expressed on this thread, contradicted the views that he has expressed on other threads. I dont believe for a minute that he is selfish, nor that he only cares about himself, but that seemed to be the opinion that he was expressing, in his last few posts on this thread.
Also I dont have a love of the EU, my opinion was that we were better in than out.
There is no question that workers rights were improved in this country while we were members of the EU, and that The Tories plan to reduce these rights now that we have left.
I surprises me that you would take such an "I am alright Jack" approach. Many of your posts on other threads suggest that you are a Christian, and as such I would have expected you to show some empathy for those that are suffering from the effects of Brexit.
You think that this isn't attacking someone's religious beliefs? Really? You think that saying his opinions are Un-Christian is ok? You believe that anyone who first looks at how Brexit is affecting them, and their loved ones "only cares about themself".
I think we all know that you believe that we are better in than out. From a purely economic perspective, so do I. I just don't feel the need to berate anyone who doesn't share your opinion.
Like the UK voters. Or Welsh voters.
But I will leave you to provide the next 1000 posts "proving" that there is only 1 side to a story. Because I have better things to do with my life.
TheEdge949 Member Posts: 1,758 May 22 But NONE of this affects ME or MINE.
TheEdge949 said: At the risk of being labelled shortsighted, I like many others are still waiting for the effects of brexit to impact my everyday life.
These comments were followed by the various categories of people that he doesnt care about.
I was merely pointing out that these comments were out of character compared to other posts he has made on numerous other threads.
Wow, now you've really opened a can of worms fella, so here it is.
I AM A CHRISTIAN, absolutely, and I care enough for people I don't even know to man foodbanks, volunteer at centres for those with addiction and often in winter to drive around Stoke on Trent and if I'm there, Rhyl complete with travel kettle and disposable cups, hot choc, tea, coffee, soup etc. Yes I know it's not much but at least it's something positive.
Why do I do it?, well somebody has to. I don't do it for praise or self fulfillment or even for a feeling of making a difference, I do it because it's the right thing to do and if I don't who the he11 is going to?
My views are not out of character at all, they might be contrary to many of my posts but here is the rub. I am a Christian who lives in the modern world and as such I refuse to live in the self denial oasis that many Christians enjoy.
I operate in a cesspool of existence way below the concerns of fishermen, hauliers, farmers and anybody else who is currently successful enough to be concerned by Brexit, and if they ever fall to the levels where I can help in any way then I'm there for them.
Perhaps if you highlighted the plight of this underclass with the same ferocity you campaign for the perceived victims of Brexit then maybe some good would come from it.
The world is a big f****** Satanic driven place where the will and desire of God is currently lacking. God currently rules the Heavens, the other guy is temporarily in charge down here until The 2nd Coming when he gets his a55 handed to him, again.
So my job is simply to try and change lives and save people, often from themselves. It isn't to save their souls, that's Gods job, I merely try to show that there is a better way.
Oh and please understand this, even as a Christian I am flawed, I am still subject to the faults and emotions of man, I sin in some form everyday, I still have the ability to offend, dislike others, and generally be a d1ck.
Christians aren't perfect, that's why we need God's grace and forgiveness so yeah, occasionally I will rail at something I feel is not really impacting on my life, especially when I can't fathom a direct correlation between the person bringing it incessantly to our attention and the subject matter.
So here's a couple of questions for you.
What direct effects are Brexit having on you?
Would still being part of the EU make a difference to the homeless, the hungry, the addicted and the neglected ? Cos it made 5od all difference when we were in.
Wow, now you've really opened a can of worms fella, so here it is.
I AM A CHRISTIAN, absolutely, and I care enough for people I don't even know to man foodbanks, volunteer at centres for those with addiction and often in winter to drive around Stoke on Trent and if I'm there, Rhyl complete with travel kettle and disposable cups, hot choc, tea, coffee, soup etc. Yes I know it's not much but at least it's something positive.
I knew some of this through what you have previously posted. It is far more than most people do. You have my utmost respect for doing it.
Why do I do it?, well somebody has to. I don't do it for praise or self fulfillment or even for a feeling of making a difference, I do it because it's the right thing to do and if I don't who the he11 is going to?
My views are not out of character at all, they might be contrary to many of my posts but here is the rub. I am a Christian who lives in the modern world and as such I refuse to live in the self denial oasis that many Christians enjoy.
I operate in a cesspool of existence way below the concerns of fishermen, hauliers, farmers and anybody else who is currently successful enough to be concerned by Brexit, and if they ever fall to the levels where I can help in any way then I'm there for them.
This is the bit that surprised me. I can understand you not caring about the owners in the above industries who are able to look after themselves. But what about the people you described earlier as minimum wage slaves? These are the people that are likely to suffer more than the owners, when things go pear shaped. You surely care about them?
Perhaps if you highlighted the plight of this underclass with the same ferocity you campaign for the perceived victims of Brexit then maybe some good would come from it.
The world is a big f****** Satanic driven place where the will and desire of God is currently lacking. God currently rules the Heavens, the other guy is temporarily in charge down here until The 2nd Coming when he gets his a55 handed to him, again.
So my job is simply to try and change lives and save people, often from themselves. It isn't to save their souls, that's Gods job, I merely try to show that there is a better way.
Oh and please understand this, even as a Christian I am flawed, I am still subject to the faults and emotions of man, I sin in some form everyday, I still have the ability to offend, dislike others, and generally be a d1ck.
Christians aren't perfect, that's why we need God's grace and forgiveness so yeah, occasionally I will rail at something I feel is not really impacting on my life, especially when I can't fathom a direct correlation between the person bringing it incessantly to our attention and the subject matter.
So here's a couple of questions for you.
What direct effects are Brexit having on you?
None yet.
Would still being part of the EU make a difference to the homeless, the hungry, the addicted and the neglected ? Cos it made 5od all difference when we were in.
NO.
Yours in Honesty
Mark
It wasnt my intention to attack your religion, and sincerely apologise if you think I have.
I also think that criticising industries as a whole is difficult,
I can see why people might have no sympathy for massive landowners with huge farms, but might empathise with owners of small family farms, who may face ruin through cheap imports.
In the same way you might not be bothered about large haulage companies, but may show concern over the owner driver that is now struggling to make a living through border delays, and a massive amount of new paperwork, together with those that are laid off by the big hauliers.
Having said that I was watching NewsNight report the other day, and a fairly large haulier in NI had taken on 7 extra staff just to process the extra paperwork. That will be a lump on the wage bill.
Trawler owners can probably last out a bit of turmoil, although the people they employ are likely to find it much more difficult.
We disagree very strongly on this but in saying that I firmly believe that you post with integrity and honesty and even though I don't agree with your opinion I will defend to the death your right to express it.
I never thought the post was an attack on my beliefs, simply a question of why I hold the opinions I do and the fact that they seemed in conflict with Christian doctrine.
That's cool, no problem although you may find I'm not exactly a Christian stereotype and I'm sure at some point down the line I'll post something that will have you screaming WTF.
In the meantime keep the dialogue going, it's when we stop engaging that the real problems occur.
We disagree very strongly on this but in saying that I firmly believe that you post with integrity and honesty and even though I don't agree with your opinion I will defend to the death your right to express it.
I never thought the post was an attack on my beliefs, simply a question of why I hold the opinions I do and the fact that they seemed in conflict with Christian doctrine.
That's cool, no problem although you may find I'm not exactly a Christian stereotype and I'm sure at some point down the line I'll post something that will have you screaming WTF.
In the meantime keep the dialogue going, it's when we stop engaging that the real problems occur.
Comments
Fishermen have always b1tched , quotas, prices, tariffs, costs and competition. God forbid they ever have to work in a free market economy.
For decades many farmers got rich off huge subsidies farming and producing stuff for an already saturated market often getting paid to destroy it.
Pardon me if I don't shed a tear for the Haulage industry and its corrupt practices designed to squeeze owner drivers out and reduce them to minimum wage slaves. The biggest operators are basically owned by the banks anyway.
Adapt or die, survival of the fittest and all that. I've witnessed my City in less than 2 generations go from a vibrant centre of Pottery, Coal and Tyre production to a wasteland of warehousing and distribution where desperate people hump cr4ppy min wage jobs, often two at a time to make a living.
So any sympathy I feel is for the people of my own City and others like it and not for somebody whos gravy train just got derailed.
Canada is seeking to secure sweeping access to the British market for its farmers in trade talks, after UK concessions to Australia threatened to open the floodgates for food imports.
Ottawa believes it can secure an ambitious deal on agriculture in negotiations later this year and hopes to take inspiration from the generous agreement set to be sealed with Australia, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.
It came as Whitehall sources said a trade deal with Australia would pave the way for a New Zealand agreement within weeks, with Wellington expected to be offered similar terms.
https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/canada-targets-british-farming-wake-090344221.html
Coal was imported from Poland and Germany as our industry was murdered.
Tyre manufacture was switched to France and Germany despite lower production costs in the UK
Oh I forgot Steel, silly me, yes steel production and major fabrication was switched to Germany amongst others and when industry saving deals were struck with China the EU blocked them.
The Pottery Industry is the only one that wasn't decimated for the benefit of other EU Countries although I'm sure that if France or Germany or perhaps Ireland had potbanks it would have happened.
So yes actually I blame the EU for many things, also I find it ironic that many of the people who are clamouring for Great Britain to apologise for all the havoc we reeked during Empire and Colonialism seem to think it's ok for the same thing to go on under the guise of the EU.
You asked, I answered.
Boris Johnson’s poor post-Brexit trade deals – starting with the one with Australia – show the desperation of a Prime Minister who sold the country a pup.
Sacrificing British beef and sheep farmers, along with decent food standards, would be another act of national self-harm by this charlatan.
The Aussies know they have him over a barrel. Johnson and International Trade Secretary Liz Truss gave up any bargaining clout by begging for a deal before June’s G7 summit.
Boris Johnson’s poor post-Brexit trade deals – starting with the one with Australia – show the desperation of a Prime Minister who sold the country a pup.
Sacrificing British beef and sheep farmers, along with decent food standards, would be another act of national self-harm by this charlatan.
The Aussies know they have him over a barrel. Johnson and International Trade Secretary Liz Truss gave up any bargaining clout by begging for a deal before June’s G7 summit.
The measly 0.025% UK economic growth over 15 years estimated from an Oz pact by Truss’s department is a drop in the ocean of what Brexit cost.
It amounts to just 1/160th of the 4% the Office for Budget Responsibility calculates will be lost in the period.
Switching negotiations with Brussels some 230 miles away, for Brisbane 10,300 miles on the other side of the world, exposes the PM for what he is – all hot air on the environment.
Every leg of lamb and cut of beef will leave a giant carbon hoof print.
On top of that there’s enough manure to fertilise every inch of farm land from a trio of Brextremist agriculture ministers – George Eustice, Theresa Villiers and Michael Gove.
They vowed imports would never be allowed from lands with worse animal welfare conditions than ours.
The fact remains the Brexit Britain painted by Johnson never existed, starting with that £350m-a-week for the NHS on the side of the red lie bus.
Conned backers and weary opponents want to talk about anything except leaving the European Union.
Labour leader Keir Starmer is among their number.
But Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves and Starmer’s Westminster bag carrier, Washington and Sunderland West MP Sharon Hodgson, who argued the party should be “braver”, are dipping toes in turbulent waters.
A big Tory majority and Covid hid damage from a Brexit the Government trumpeted but now wishes to break, particularly over Northern Ireland.
Labour under Ed Miliband was handicapped by never challenging David Cameron and George Osborne’s fibs that Blair and Brown overspent.
Until it exposes Johnson’s ongoing deceit, he gets away with falsely saying getting Brexit done was good.
We need to talk about Brexit again.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/australia-trade-deal-proves-boris-johnson-s-brexit-boasts-are-a-load-of-bull/ar-AAKiISt?ocid=msedgntp
You are blaming the EU for much that they are not guilty of.
And ignoring the fact that for the last 47 years we were members.
We played an integral part, and voted in favour of over 90% of their rules.
You also seem oblivious of anything good the EU has been responsible for.
For instance workers rights, which you seem to care about.
Goodyear Dunlop dismisses government pleas over plant closure
Business minister Matthew Hancock yesterday insisted that officials were working "extremely hard" to keep the firm in Britain, and stressed "financial aid and new sites remain on the table".
However, Dunlop Motorsport said it remained the case that the key factor in its proposal to shift manufacturing from Birmingham to sites in Europe had always been one of time, and chiefly maintaining uninterrupted supply to its customers.
Earlier this month the company announced plans to move operations out of Erdington, where it has been based for decades, because its lease is ending on the site. Production is due to be shifted to existing plants in France and Germany, putting 241 jobs at risk.
https://www.imeche.org/news/news-article/goodyear-dunlop-dismisses-government-pleas-over-plant-closure
Dromey continued: “They could have moved three miles to Aston. “But a decision was made 3,500 miles away in Ohio to end 125 years of manufacturing in Birmingham.” The first tyres were produced at Fort Dunlop in 1902, and the well-known A-grade locally listed building was designed in the 1920s. Production of motorsport and specialist tyres continued in Fort Dunlop after the cessation of volume tyre production in the 1980s, however the site’s sale to Jaguar Land Rover sealed the fate of tyre production there. When faced with the choice of utilising existing facilities abroad for motorsport tyre production or setting up a new plant nearby, Goodyear management chose the latter.
https://www.tyrepress.com/2014/06/chequered-flag-waved-on-fort-dunlop-motorsport-tyre-manufacture/
Please do not attack a man's religion. Just because someone does not share your love for the EU does not mean that they do not care about others, or workers' rights.
The demise of the UK coal industry was, in part, due to the EU, however much you refuse to accept it. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher's desire to crush the Unions and the spirit of the working man was also a factor.
The EU is (or was) supposed to work primarily as a trade body to protect the economic interests of its members. In the early 1980's British coal was the cheapest to produce in the world. Fact. Poland, which was not a member of the EU at that time, decided to flood the EU market with cheaper coal-cheaper only because the Polish Government was subsidising the cost, undercutting UK coal.
The EU sat on its hands and did nothing. No tariffs. No protection. Thatcher did nothing because it suited her. While the EU did nothing whatsoever. Because the UK never received the protection routinely given to the Core EU countries. If that had been a German industry at threat it would never have been allowed to happen.
you are entitled to your opinion. But I would be wary of expounding parts of it in a Welsh mining area.
How dare you suggest that I was attacking the mans religion.
I was merely pointing out that the views he has expressed on this thread, contradicted the views that he has expressed on other threads.
I dont believe for a minute that he is selfish, nor that he only cares about himself, but that seemed to be the opinion that he was expressing, in his last few posts on this thread.
Also I dont have a love of the EU, my opinion was that we were better in than out.
There is no question that workers rights were improved in this country while we were members of the EU, and that The Tories plan to reduce these rights now that we have left.
Attributing blame is not an exact science.
If we still had a coal industry today, we would be closing it down.
Our coal Industry lost one million jobs from 1920 to 1980. with little help from the EU.
Mrs Thatcher followed this up by cutting 80% of the remaining jobs.
All through my youth I can recall figures being bandied about regarding the production costs of a ton of coal.
We always seemed to be nearer the bottom than the top of the list of the most economic coal producers.
The world is constantly changing, and it doesnt pay to get left behind.
The problem in this country is that some people wish to blame the EU for anything bad that happens.
This will obviously be difficult in future.
I dont think that arguments about the coal industry are at all relevant to Brexit.
Many of your posts on other threads suggest that you are a Christian, and as such I would have expected you to show some empathy for those that are suffering from the effects of Brexit.
You think that this isn't attacking someone's religious beliefs? Really? You think that saying his opinions are Un-Christian is ok?
You believe that anyone who first looks at how Brexit is affecting them, and their loved ones "only cares about themself".
I think we all know that you believe that we are better in than out. From a purely economic perspective, so do I. I just don't feel the need to berate anyone who doesn't share your opinion.
Like the UK voters. Or Welsh voters.
But I will leave you to provide the next 1000 posts "proving" that there is only 1 side to a story. Because I have better things to do with my life.
The decline of the British coal industry started after the First World War. But was accelerated after the Second World War, and in particular, after the miner’s strike of 1984.
Between 1923 and 1945, employment in the industry fell from 1.2 to 0.8 million, and the British share of the world coal market dropped from 59% to 37%. In part, this can be explained by increased competition, not only from other countries producing coal but also from cheaper substitute fuels. Before 1914 demand for coal was rising at an annual rate of 4%; after the war, British exports of coal plummeted, and domestic demand remained stagnant. Coal in decline
Little more than 60 years after the end of the Second World War, Britain’s last coal mine producer (UK coal) is fighting for survival. Despite producing around 44% of British power needs (from just 39 mines employing 6,000 people – UK Coal) , even the UK coal industry knows it is an industry in decline. As the chairman of UK coal stated:
“I recognise fully that coal, as it is currently used to produce power, has a finite lifetime, because we have to decarbonise the energy supply chain,” he says. “This industry is towards the end of its life. Let’s give it a managed landing, rather than a catastrophic insolvency.” (UK coal makes final bid for survival at Telegraph)
Over time, the UK coal industry has become uncompetitive on a global scale. With higher wages and unit costs of production, coal is cheaper to import from abroad. For example, UK power stations import considerable amounts of coal from Argentina.
New Sources of Energy. From the 1960s, the UK discovered cheaper sources of energy, such as north sea gas and oil. Also the nuclear power industry provided a new source of energy. With new energy sources, we became less dependent on coal.
Decline in demand for coal. Even as late as the 1960s, British railways were run coal power. But, steam power soon vanished in place of diesel and electric. Households used to burn coal for central heating. But, after the Clean Air Act of the 1950s, this rapidly declined as people switched to more modern forms of central heating.
Political Issues. The coal industry had the most powerful unions in the country. Unions were highly organised, often by leaders with strong political (left wing) allegiances. Miners strikes, such as 1924, early 1970s and 1984 Miners strike had the capacity to bring the country to a standstill. Right wing politicians, such as Mrs Thatcher were determined to break the political and economic power of the coal miners. Arguably, the miners strike of 1973 was a key factor in the defeat of the last Conservative government, run by Edward Heath. Mrs Thatcher staked her political fortunes on defeating the coal miners in the 1984 strike. After being on strike for nearly a year, the miners reluctantly drifted back to work – defeated, their political and economic power never recovered. The unions were then powerless to prevent a steady stream of mine closures.
Nationalisation. In 1947, the coal mines were nationalised. This was partly ideological and also a reflection of their depressed economic fortunes. Some argue that nationalisation held back the industry. Combined with strong union demands, it was hard to invest and implement new working practises to improve productivity. However, it is not clear a private sector coal industry would have been able to prevent this long-term decline because it was declining even in the 1920s and 1930s.
Privatisation. Others suggest that privatisation was the final nail in the coffin for the British coal industries. In the private sector, without government support, the coal industry is struggling to compete against foreign competition.
The Oncoming Storm
8 April 2013 at 6:57 pm
Exactly! Britain’s big mistake up until the 1970’s was to fail to develop new industries instead of keeping dying industries like coal going by subsidies because of the political commitment to “Full Employment at all costs.” What we should have done was to encourage the develop of our own Mittelstand. Thatcher certainly made mistakes but if Atlee, Churchill, Macmillan and Wilson had faced up to the underlying reasons for our economic problems Britain would be a very different place today!
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6498/uncategorized/the-decline-of-the-uk-coal-industry/
Falling demand
The economics of the coal industry changed radically after 1957, and demand rapidly fell away in the face of competition from oil and gas. Even so, the British industry was faced with problems of overcapacity and low productivity as marginal mines had been kept in production to meet previous demand. In 1959, the National Coal Board (NCB) produced reduced estimates for future demand and consumption. By 1962, the government was considering the closure of collieries.
Colliery closure
The collieries closed during the second half of the 1960s, and successive governments acted to offset the social and political costs. The Conservatives forbade coal imports and taxed fuel oil to make British coal more competitive. Wilson's Labour government acted more directly, and the Coal Industry Act of 1965 allowed the NCB to write off £400 million in debt and ease its financial position. As the industry was rationalised in the late 1960s, the Coal Industry Act of 1967 provided subsidisation of redundancy and early retirement.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/themes/coal-nationalised-industry.htm
BBC ON THIS DAY | 13 | 1975: Miners set for 35 per cent pay rises
news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/13/...
Coal output also increased to meet the higher production targets set by the NCB. Targets rose to 150 million tonnes over the decade from the 115 million tonnes achieved in 1975. Joseph Gormley presided over a period of relative harmony in the coal industry for the rest of the 1970s and achieved the relatively peaceful closure of 40 pits in that period.
UK government subsidises coal sector with £356 million a year ...
www.newscientist.com/article/2130231-uk...
08/05/2017 · In a new report, the international development think tank rated the UK poor on transparency and on phasing out subsidies for coal mining and coal
Coal Subsidies (Hansard, 20 February 1984) - api.parliament.uk
api.parliament.uk/.../1984/feb/20/coal-subsidies
It is correct to invest heavily in new coal production, because that will be far more efficient and economic for the future. The coal industry has an important part to play in supplying the country's future energy resources. This year the NCB will receive more than £900 million in subsidies, which is equivalent to £90 per miner per week.
May 22
But NONE of this affects ME or MINE.
TheEdge949 said:
At the risk of being labelled shortsighted, I like many others are still waiting for the effects of brexit to impact my everyday life.
These comments were followed by the various categories of people that he doesnt care about.
I was merely pointing out that these comments were out of character compared to other posts he has made on numerous other threads.
I AM A CHRISTIAN, absolutely, and I care enough for people I don't even know to man foodbanks, volunteer at centres for those with addiction and often in winter to drive around Stoke on Trent and if I'm there, Rhyl complete with travel kettle and disposable cups, hot choc, tea, coffee, soup etc. Yes I know it's not much but at least it's something positive.
Why do I do it?, well somebody has to. I don't do it for praise or self fulfillment or even for a feeling of making a difference, I do it because it's the right thing to do and if I don't who the he11 is going to?
My views are not out of character at all, they might be contrary to many of my posts but here is the rub. I am a Christian who lives in the modern world and as such I refuse to live in the self denial oasis that many Christians enjoy.
I operate in a cesspool of existence way below the concerns of fishermen, hauliers, farmers and anybody else who is currently successful enough to be concerned by Brexit, and if they ever fall to the levels where I can help in any way then I'm there for them.
Perhaps if you highlighted the plight of this underclass with the same ferocity you campaign for the perceived victims of Brexit then maybe some good would come from it.
The world is a big f****** Satanic driven place where the will and desire of God is currently lacking. God currently rules the Heavens, the other guy is temporarily in charge down here until The 2nd Coming when he gets his a55 handed to him, again.
So my job is simply to try and change lives and save people, often from themselves. It isn't to save their souls, that's Gods job, I merely try to show that there is a better way.
Oh and please understand this, even as a Christian I am flawed, I am still subject to the faults and emotions of man, I sin in some form everyday, I still have the ability to offend, dislike others, and generally be a d1ck.
Christians aren't perfect, that's why we need God's grace and forgiveness so yeah, occasionally I will rail at something I feel is not really impacting on my life, especially when I can't fathom a direct correlation between the person bringing it incessantly to our attention and the subject matter.
So here's a couple of questions for you.
What direct effects are Brexit having on you?
Would still being part of the EU make a difference to the homeless, the hungry, the addicted and the neglected ? Cos it made 5od all difference when we were in.
Yours in Honesty
Mark
It wasnt my intention to attack your religion, and sincerely apologise if you think I have.
I also think that criticising industries as a whole is difficult,
I can see why people might have no sympathy for massive landowners with huge farms, but might empathise with owners of small family farms, who may face ruin through cheap imports.
In the same way you might not be bothered about large haulage companies, but may show concern over the owner driver that is now struggling to make a living through border delays, and a massive amount of new paperwork, together with those that are laid off by the big hauliers.
Having said that I was watching NewsNight report the other day, and a fairly large haulier in NI had taken on 7 extra staff just to process the extra paperwork.
That will be a lump on the wage bill.
Trawler owners can probably last out a bit of turmoil, although the people they employ are likely to find it much more difficult.
We disagree very strongly on this but in saying that I firmly believe that you post with integrity and honesty and even though I don't agree with your opinion I will defend to the death your right to express it.
I never thought the post was an attack on my beliefs, simply a question of why I hold the opinions I do and the fact that they seemed in conflict with Christian doctrine.
That's cool, no problem although you may find I'm not exactly a Christian stereotype and I'm sure at some point down the line I'll post something that will have you screaming WTF.
In the meantime keep the dialogue going, it's when we stop engaging that the real problems occur.