I appreciate that you find it difficult to follow my reasoning. The reason is quite simple. Try removing the enormous set of blinkers you have on, which keep making you adopt the frankly ridiculous position that absolutely everything about the EU is wonderful, and everything about Brexit is terrible. That is as unsustainable as saying there are no problems at all.
I think you are going completely over the top on this. I would like to think of myself as being on the side of fairness, although I appreciate you may not share that view. You seem to have a view that the UK is always right, and the EU is always in the wrong. This is despite all the evidence, and the facts. I really dont think that everything about the EU is wonderful, but I do believe they have behaved far more reasonably than the UK Government over Brexit. I dont think that you can deny that Brexit has caused many problems. Although there has been one gain. I watched "All Out Politics" yesterday. They covered an article in The Sun, which celebrated the 5 year anniversary of the referendum. I havent seen the article, but according to those that had, The Sun came up with 2 Brexit gains. The first was the tampon tax, which I wont dispute. The second was the vaccine roll out, which I will dispute. This one is a lie, as we both know. As we were EU members, we still had the choice of going it alone, which we did. The first lot of vaccines were ordered while we were still members. So that leaves the tampon tax as the only Brexit benefit according to The Sun. This is far outweighed by the havoc, and mayhem elsewhere.
You start by saying
"The best people to decide whats best for Ireland, are the Irish Electorate."
Correct.
Yet you have no problem whatsoever ignoring the UK electorate in relation to what is best for the UK. It is trite to try and blame Brexit just on the Conservatives. It happened like this:-
I am not. How can anyone not accept the result? We have left?
1. In 2014 an essentially single-issue Party, UKIP won the UK European elections 2. The Conservative Party, worried that they were about to be overtaken on the Rabid Right, promised a free vote on the EU 3. The UK electorate voted to Leave 4. In subsequent elections, the Tories promised a Hard Brexit, and got a massive Majority. You know, from the UK electorate
I will pretty much accept this. Except that David Camron promised the referendum in January 2013, so the 2014 European elections couldnt have had a bearing on this. I rarely recall Boris being clear on anything, least of all anything to do with Brexit. Although the exception proving the rule, would be him saying that an Irish Sea border would happen over his dead body.
I don't like that any more than you do. But Democracy doesn't involve everyone agreeing with me.
I agree.
Ireland's economy is being massively changed by Brexit. The Irish people deserve a free vote as to whether economically (and only economically) they would be better off being part of the British Isles. As opposed to being part of a European "Union" that wants to prevent them trading with their neighbour.
I think that all the prominent Irish politicians have sided with the EU, throughout the Brexit negotiations.
There has been a deal agreed between the UK and the EU about the island of Ireland. It is a bad deal. 2 parties agreed to it. And 2 parties, not 1, are at fault for that.
I cant go along with this. The facts were known by all sides before we left. Theresa May had the backstop, and no border. No backstop meant the creation of a customs border. The only place possible was the Irish sea. The EU had agreed the backstop and the outline of the trade deal with Theresa May. Boris didnt like either. The EU asked Boris to come up with an alternative. Boris came up with the protocol. He owns it. The EU agreed to the protocol very quickly. This was despite spending years negotiating with Theresa May. The result is a shambles.
I think it is ridiculous to blame the EU for this. The EU would clearly have been much happier with a closer relationship. Our side thought up the protocol. The EU just agreed to what we wanted. We signed up to it. Did we know what we were doing? Within five minutes it went pear shaped. Although I do think that many of the issues surrounding border checks may be sorted out easily. Instead of persisting with sausage wars, we could source chilled meats locally. Recruiting a reasonable number of vets to carry out the checks, would speed things up. Or do we blame the EU for that as well.
I appreciate that you don't agree with that. You keep banging on about the faults of one side. While totally ignoring the other. It's like being in the playground "He started it, Miss!"
What can we blame the EU for Miss?
Guess which 2 nations had little or no say in it. Northern Ireland. And Ireland.
I think that the DUP have been ridiculed for the part they played.
PS-love these irrelevant "minute" islands outside or inside the EU when it suits. Like the Canaries-that have a population way higher than Northern Ireland. Or that tiny little Greenland. Or French Guiana-that are free to import US processed meat
There were many invalid comparisons put forward during the negotiations. Like the Canada deal that had no level playing field conditions. Yet Canada arent a competitor that is on their doorstep.
I think the most serious aspects of the Brexit deal, will affect The Union. The border checks are likely to be reduced. A more intelligent PM would do this by negotiation rather than by taking unilateral decisions which breach International Law. The biggest problem is that of identity. How can the people of NI feel British when they are separated by a border, and have to follow some of EU laws.
A different result was possible, but we didnt want it.
The Guardian view on Northern Ireland: Boris Johnson isn’t bothered
With unionist opposition so aroused over the Northern Ireland Brexit protocol, which creates a trade border with Britain in the Irish Sea, this threatens to be a very hot political summer.
The crucial issue facing the new DUP leadership is therefore the protocol. Running for the leadership a month ago, Sir Jeffrey pledged that he would “vigorously oppose the protocol both in principle and in practice”. But demands to abolish the protocol are not going to succeed. For one thing, the EU will never agree. For another, the majority of Northern Ireland voters want the UK to agree to regulatory alignment with the EU. So Sir Jeffrey’s words when he was elected this week, calling on the UK and EU to “step up and recognise the flaws of the protocol”, are significant. They could be the start of a more realistic, but still challenging, effort to steer unionist opinion away from insistence on the protocol’s removal.
Mr Johnson deceitfully promotes to British voters as a sausage war, when, in Northern Ireland terms, where export markets to the Irish republic are unaffected, it is not one.
Ireland has 2 vitally important (and biggest) markets for exports and imports. They are the USA and the UK. The EU's mantra on European "Union" seeks to prevent Ireland trading with it's biggest partners.
You may think Kate Hoey is mad, but I believe it is not in Ireland's best economic interests to be in a trading bloc that seeks to penalise Ireland's biggest customers. The deal as it stands is just as bad for Ireland as it is the UK.
The UK is eager to have/continue the special trading relationship that it has had with Ireland since before the EEC (never mind the EU) was formed. In particular, the North West of Ireland and the West of Northern Ireland are much more dependant on one another than on London, Belfast or Dublin.
If there has to be trading posts set up, that will be at the EU's insistence, and (presumably) at Ireland's cost. Because it is not our Single Market. Compare and contrast this with the dispensations given to the Canaries, French dependencies, even the UK bases on Cyprus.
When we were in the EU, and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc were not, the EU did not adopt the same position as in Northern Ireland now.
Five years on, we finally know what Brexit means: utter calamity
…
Five years ago today, in the early hours, Britain discovered what it had done – and what had been done to it by the liars, charlatans and rogues who mis-sold Brexit as “taking back control”. The wound is as fresh as ever. Breaking apart political parties and reversing erstwhile red or blue wall seats is a minor matter, but Brexit’s explosive division of the country by social class, geography and a deep sense of personal identity is a lasting injury.
Few have changed their mind: though polls put remain (or return) ahead by a nose, no one wants to be put through that **** again. Brexit is done for the foreseeable future, though a government thriving on national disunity strives to keep it alive with infantile culture wars and “anti-woke” phoney patriotism. Polls give the Conservatives a 14-point lead, as they head into next week’s Batley and Spen byelection. No surprise, for what party in power could dream of a better boast than this: the vaccines are genuinely bestowing the gift of staying alive on every single citizen. And Britain is out ahead of other European countries: pollsters tell me voters sincerely (though unjustly) believe that had we remained in the EU, we couldn’t have had our own programme. Despite EU vaccinators catching up, and the UK having more dead and more debt than they do, Covid is still a convenient cover.
Yet barely a day goes by without further proofs of Brexit’s damage, some of it now forcing its way into the Tory press. This week, pigeon fanciers are barred from having their birds participate in cross-Channel races by new rules. Less niche is the alarming 17% rise in food prices: Ian Wright, of the Food and Drink Federation, tells me Brexit costs and obstructions have sent commodity prices soaring, and those are now working their way on to the shelves. The unexpected £2bn fall in UK food and drink exports to the EU in just the first quarter of this year is, Wright tells me, “no teething problem, but very real and sustained. Smaller firms have stopped exporting”, overwhelmed by the new obstacles. The government may turn a permanent blind eye on import checks starting next week: “But that soon gets dangerous. When no one checks, who knows if imported food is what it says on the tin, and not, say, horse meat?”
Financial services are migrating to the EU: by March, Brexit had already driven away an estimated £1.3 trillion of assets and jobs. By April, more than 440 finance firms had fled, taking 10% of the UK’s financial sector assets, worth a staggering £900bn, while foreign investment subsides.
Boris Johnson’s hastily botched EU trade deal left out finance, responsible for 80% of our exports by value. It nearly stalled over fishing, a sector with just 12,000 jobs, yet even that industry is wrecked – and the Express says so: “‘They’ve sold us down the f*****g river!’ British fishermen hit out on Brexit anniversary.” Wherever you look, expect the same story. The assault on the arts, music and broadcasting is lethal for a sector where Britain excels. This week, the music industry has been begging for an end to the deadlock over EU touring, vital for its viability. Another thunderbolt struck this week with a report showing the EU is likely to enforce its rules limiting non-EU content in its broadcasting: nothing new here, the EU is always strict on cultural protection against the US. That strips millions from financing for drama and other programmes, on top of BBC cuts and the possible privatisation of Channel 4.
Look at almost any industry and you find too much damage done to fit in this space: vanishing EU workers, no EU arrest warrant or crime data sharing, the loss of Erasmus, EU visitors handcuffed at our airports, and EU citizens here in peril of being failed by the Home Office, in a manner redolent of the Windrush scandal – a poisonous message that will deter EU tourism.
As the Brexiters’ reckless unreadiness unfolds, the government emerges devoid of basic policy. Is it for protecting our farmers, manufacturers, steel or wind turbine makers, or is it for wild free trade, with the cheapest food and products imported, regardless of home industries? The Australia deal sold out farmers, with 60 times more beef imported next year for a puny 0.02% GDP increase over 15 years.
Yesterday the sausages were kicked down the road, but this will only delay the Northern Ireland protocol crisis beyond the tense marching season. There’s an easy answer to food export dilemmas if a pig-headed prime minister hadn’t appointed the mulish Lord Frost to block it: only ideology stops them agreeing to EU food standards, as we have agreed to EU employment and environment norms. That should alarm most voters who may not relish an inalienable right to lower food quality.
It’s high time Labour broke its silence on these calamities, and it should start right there with food standards. It would be an easy win. Had the Brexiters lost by a whisker five years ago, do you think they would have quietly capitulated, any more than the SNP did after it lost in 2014? The omerta of Labour remainers has done them no favours, letting these Brexit car crashes pile up unopposed. True, Brexit is electoral dynamite that Johnson plans to exploit for ever, but that’s why Labour needs to make a stand now. There’s no re-opening the referendum, it should just target the failed trade deal. Polls show the public knows how bad it is, Strathclyde university’s Prof John Curtice found that even among leave voters, only one in three thinks it a good deal.
Emily Thornberry, shadowing on trade, sees that wide-open goal. “Be grown-up and pragmatic,” she says. “We need a good deal. We can make the best of Brexit, while they’ve made the worst of it.” So far Covid shrouds the effects, driving the EU trade deal’s disasters from most front pages. But on everything from farming, manufacturing and finance to entertainment and food the government is vulnerable and culpable, if Labour would shake off its paralysing Brexit-phobia.
Ireland has 2 vitally important (and biggest) markets for exports and imports. They are the USA and the UK. The EU's mantra on European "Union" seeks to prevent Ireland trading with it's biggest partners.
You may think Kate Hoey is mad, but I believe it is not in Ireland's best economic interests to be in a trading bloc that seeks to penalise Ireland's biggest customers. The deal as it stands is just as bad for Ireland as it is the UK.
The UK is eager to have/continue the special trading relationship that it has had with Ireland since before the EEC (never mind the EU) was formed. In particular, the North West of Ireland and the West of Northern Ireland are much more dependant on one another than on London, Belfast or Dublin.
If there has to be trading posts set up, that will be at the EU's insistence, and (presumably) at Ireland's cost. Because it is not our Single Market. Compare and contrast this with the dispensations given to the Canaries, French dependencies, even the UK bases on Cyprus.
When we were in the EU, and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc were not, the EU did not adopt the same position as in Northern Ireland now.
Brexit: Collapse in British exports hands Irish Republic a trade surplus
A collapse in British exports to the Irish Republic since Brexit has handed Dublin an extraordinary trade surplus with London, new figures show.
The Irish government says new trading red tape explains a €2 billion plunge in the value of goods sales – 47.6 per cent in the first quarter of this year, compared with the start of 2020.
It is revealed after ferry routes were expanded between the country and France, to bypass British ports mired in the extra paperwork brought by Boris Johnson’s trade agreement.
The figures, published by Dublin, suggest its companies have switched to buying products directly from EU countries, rather than from across the Irish Sea.
The figures also show – probably to the alarm of Unionist in the north – a big increase in trade on the island of Ireland, as outlets there look south for more products.
Goods exports to Northern Ireland increased by 22.4 per cent year-on-year – while imports into the Republic soared by 44.2 per cent.
The extra ferry services between Ireland and the Continent have been dubbed “Brexit buster” routes, threatening business at ports such as Holyhead and Liverpool.
At Rosslare, sailings and cargo capacity for roll-on, roll-off shipments to France quadrupled in a single month. Other vessels are being rerouted from Belfast, Liverpool and Holyhead to Dublin-France services.
Ireland has 2 vitally important (and biggest) markets for exports and imports. They are the USA and the UK. The EU's mantra on European "Union" seeks to prevent Ireland trading with it's biggest partners.
You may think Kate Hoey is mad, but I believe it is not in Ireland's best economic interests to be in a trading bloc that seeks to penalise Ireland's biggest customers. The deal as it stands is just as bad for Ireland as it is the UK.
The UK is eager to have/continue the special trading relationship that it has had with Ireland since before the EEC (never mind the EU) was formed. In particular, the North West of Ireland and the West of Northern Ireland are much more dependant on one another than on London, Belfast or Dublin.
If there has to be trading posts set up, that will be at the EU's insistence, and (presumably) at Ireland's cost. Because it is not our Single Market. Compare and contrast this with the dispensations given to the Canaries, French dependencies, even the UK bases on Cyprus.
When we were in the EU, and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc were not, the EU did not adopt the same position as in Northern Ireland now.
Ireland listening to those with ‘real concerns’ over Protocol, Coveney says
Ireland is listening to those who have real concerns about the Northern Ireland Protocol, and “making the case strongly at an EU level for flexibility and pragmatism”, the country’s Foreign Affairs Minister has said.
Simon Coveney said he hopes that progress will be made in the “sausage war” trade dispute between the UK and the European Union in the next week.
But he added there would also have to be “an adherence to what was agreed”.
He added that the Irish Government had been advocating for more ambition around sanitary and phytosanitary standards, food standards, veterinary standards and a common approach to that from the UK and the EU “which could reduce significantly the number of checks required in airports and airports in Northern Ireland on product coming from GB”.
Yeah cos the Americans never encouraged the raising of funds for a terrorist organisation. Neither did they permit guns, drugs, cash and people to pass unhindered through their borders in the name of the Great struggle. Tell em to F*** Off
We would be completely safe from the threat of chlorine washed chicken, hormone fed beef, and GM crops, if you were leading the trade negotiations.
But this also shows the unnecessary inflexibility of the EU's position.
In theory, we could sign trade deals with countries that do not conform to EU safety standards for food. In theory, we could fail to conform to the various worker safety standards.
If the EU were to say that the minute we diverge on either of the above, we could not export to Northern Ireland without border checks, I could understand their position.
But-we haven't. There is no evidence to show wholesale transfers of sausages etc being transferred to Ireland. It's just unnecessarily penalising the people of Northern Ireland.
Compare and contrast with other borders. So-for example-if you are deemed to be some distance from Mainland Europe, you get all sorts of exemptions. So-for example-Spanish firms based in the Canaries are exempt from having to charge VAT.
There are 43 land borders between EU and non-EU countries. And precisely none of them have the same restrictions as those imposed on Northern Ireland.
PS. Favourite trivia question in a while:-
Which country has the longest land border with France?
Germany? Spain? No-it is actually Brazil (as French Guiana is part of France and in the EU)
Brexit: EU set to agree delay to NI Protocol meat ban
Products such as chilled sausages were due to be prohibited from Tuesday as a consequence of the post-Brexit Northern Ireland Protocol arrangement.
The European Commission has recommended a delay should be allowed.
The Northern Ireland Protocol was designed as part of the Brexit deal to keep Northern Ireland closely aligned with this market, ensuring free trade across the Irish border.
The EU normally bars chilled meat products from being imported into its single market.
Last week, the UK asked the EU for more time as a six-month grace period on the ban on chilled meat was due to expire.
Irish broadcaster RTÉ reported the conditions of the extension would be the UK agreeing to align with relevant EU food safety rules for its duration and further discussions about a long-term solution for Great Britain to NI food movements.
During a speech to Sinn Féin activists at a hotel in Belfast on Wednesday, Ms McDonald said talk of the protocol being abolished was "not grounded in reality".
"We need the protocol because Brexit is bad news for Ireland and bad news for the north in particular," she said.
"The DUP need to work alongside the rest of us to meet the challenges and maximise the opportunities of the Irish protocol."
DUP leader-designate Sir Jeffrey Donaldson wants the protocol to be removed.
"We don't agree with the DUP on Brexit - I hate to say 'we told you so' but we did say at the time that Brexit would be dangerous and disruptive," said the Sinn Féin president.
Her strongest warning came regarding the future of devolution and she said any attempt to collapse the institutions over Brexit would be "a huge error".
On the protocol, she reiterated Sinn Féin's position that it is here to stay, but she did welcome news that changes to the EU meat ban could happen.
She said when people engage in good faith "solutions can be found".
This was essentially Mary Lou McDonald having a public conversation with the incoming DUP leader. Next week they will meet in person.
Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) Micheál Martin said there are mechanisms to deal with trade and co-operation difficulties and space should be given on the issues that matter.
He told the Dáil (lower house of parliament) that opportunities provided by the protocol should be identified in areas such as foreign direct investment and for the dairy sector.
Sir Jeffrey said he wanted to speak to the prime minister as soon as possible, warning that it would not be realistic to expect stability at Stormont "when every unionist representative in the devolved institutions opposes the Northern Ireland Protocol".
"The government and those who claim to be protectors of peace and stability must step up and deal with the protocol in a manner which respects the constitutional and economic integrity of the United Kingdom," he said.
'Be honest' Earlier on Wednesday, Sinn Féin MP Chris Hazzard said many businesses had benefited from the protocol and he urged the DUP to "be honest" with its party members and the public.
Brexit LIVE: Boris could face Supreme Court battle over hated EU deal - judgement in DAYS
In Belfast's High Court, some of Northern Ireland's most senior judges heard arguments from the politicians' lawyers that the Protocol was legally "rotten to the core" and incompatible with domestic and European law.
Ireland has 2 vitally important (and biggest) markets for exports and imports. They are the USA and the UK. The EU's mantra on European "Union" seeks to prevent Ireland trading with it's biggest partners.
You may think Kate Hoey is mad, but I believe it is not in Ireland's best economic interests to be in a trading bloc that seeks to penalise Ireland's biggest customers. The deal as it stands is just as bad for Ireland as it is the UK.
The UK is eager to have/continue the special trading relationship that it has had with Ireland since before the EEC (never mind the EU) was formed. In particular, the North West of Ireland and the West of Northern Ireland are much more dependant on one another than on London, Belfast or Dublin.
If there has to be trading posts set up, that will be at the EU's insistence, and (presumably) at Ireland's cost. Because it is not our Single Market. Compare and contrast this with the dispensations given to the Canaries, French dependencies, even the UK bases on Cyprus.
When we were in the EU, and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc were not, the EU did not adopt the same position as in Northern Ireland now.
Just watched Brandon Lewis on Marr. He still wont admit to the existence of an Irish Sea border?
Brandon Lewis @BrandonLewis There is no ‘Irish Sea Border’. As we have seen today, the important preparations the Govt and businesses have taken to prepare for the end of the Transition Period are keeping goods flowing freely around the country, including between GB and NI. The first goods have crossed the new trade border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
The 'Irish Sea border' is a consequence of Brexit and means that most commercial goods entering NI from GB require a customs declaration.
Ireland has 2 vitally important (and biggest) markets for exports and imports. They are the USA and the UK. The EU's mantra on European "Union" seeks to prevent Ireland trading with it's biggest partners.
You may think Kate Hoey is mad, but I believe it is not in Ireland's best economic interests to be in a trading bloc that seeks to penalise Ireland's biggest customers. The deal as it stands is just as bad for Ireland as it is the UK.
The UK is eager to have/continue the special trading relationship that it has had with Ireland since before the EEC (never mind the EU) was formed. In particular, the North West of Ireland and the West of Northern Ireland are much more dependant on one another than on London, Belfast or Dublin.
If there has to be trading posts set up, that will be at the EU's insistence, and (presumably) at Ireland's cost. Because it is not our Single Market. Compare and contrast this with the dispensations given to the Canaries, French dependencies, even the UK bases on Cyprus.
When we were in the EU, and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc were not, the EU did not adopt the same position as in Northern Ireland now.
UK poorest nation per capita in northwest Europe, research shows
The 2021 figures show that the UK has a gross domestic product (GDP) income per head of the population of just £31,038 – behind other poor performers France on £32,622 and Finland on £34,187.
Luxembourg was found to have the highest GDP per capita in north west Europe, with more than £80,000 per person – followed by Ireland (£65,411) and Switzerland (£50,015).
Ireland has 2 vitally important (and biggest) markets for exports and imports. They are the USA and the UK. The EU's mantra on European "Union" seeks to prevent Ireland trading with it's biggest partners.
You may think Kate Hoey is mad, but I believe it is not in Ireland's best economic interests to be in a trading bloc that seeks to penalise Ireland's biggest customers. The deal as it stands is just as bad for Ireland as it is the UK.
The UK is eager to have/continue the special trading relationship that it has had with Ireland since before the EEC (never mind the EU) was formed. In particular, the North West of Ireland and the West of Northern Ireland are much more dependant on one another than on London, Belfast or Dublin.
If there has to be trading posts set up, that will be at the EU's insistence, and (presumably) at Ireland's cost. Because it is not our Single Market. Compare and contrast this with the dispensations given to the Canaries, French dependencies, even the UK bases on Cyprus.
When we were in the EU, and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc were not, the EU did not adopt the same position as in Northern Ireland now.
The best people to decide whats best for Ireland, are the Irish Electorate.
I find it difficult to follow your reasoning.
Once we left the EU, there had to be a customs border, the border had to go in the Irish Sea.
There were no other realistic options.
Once we became a third country the number of border checks were bound to increase.
Nobody moaned about the small number of border checks between UK/NI that took place while we were still members.
The number of checks that would be required would be directly related to our post Brexit alignment with the EU.
I recall Michelle Barnier making it very clear in the Boris negotiations, when he said that it would be possible to maintain frictionless trade, and that the amount of friction would depend on the closeness of our ongoing relationship.
Boris wanted to diverge without friction.
Having his cake, and eating it was not on offer.
The friction is causing hold ups, yet this could be avoided with a stroke of a pen, by signing a veterinary agreement.
This would reduce the number of checks required by 80%.
This could even be done on a temporary basis.
Boris has chosen instead to unilaterally extend grace periods to minimise the problems.
Some of the delays are being caused by a lack of staff.
Therefore out fault.
There is no doubt in my mind that Boris has caused this mess.
I think that the border checks have created a wider problem.
At least some of the protests in NI appear to be about the imposition of a border between UK/NI, rather than border checks.
I dont think the protests have anything to do with sausages.
I dont think that Boris will able to decrease tensions in NI, even if he were able to reduce checks.
Although the border checks will just exacerbate the situation.
If my memory serves, when Boris ripped up Theresa Mays backstop, he came up with the protocol as an alternative.
There was no Irish Sea border in the backstop.
As far as the Unionists are concerned, it would appear that the border that separates them from the rest of the UK is the problem, nothing to do with EU rules.
Whatever happens to the protocol, the border will remain.
As I have said before the real problem is Brexit.
I am not sure that minute islands anywhere are at all relevant.
I appreciate that you find it difficult to follow my reasoning. The reason is quite simple. Try removing the enormous set of blinkers you have on, which keep making you adopt the frankly ridiculous position that absolutely everything about the EU is wonderful, and everything about Brexit is terrible. That is as unsustainable as saying there are no problems at all.
You start by saying
"The best people to decide whats best for Ireland, are the Irish Electorate."
Yet you have no problem whatsoever ignoring the UK electorate in relation to what is best for the UK. It is trite to try and blame Brexit just on the Conservatives. It happened like this:-
1. In 2014 an essentially single-issue Party, UKIP won the UK European elections 2. The Conservative Party, worried that they were about to be overtaken on the Rabid Right, promised a free vote on the EU 3. The UK electorate voted to Leave 4. In subsequent elections, the Tories promised a Hard Brexit, and got a massive Majority. You know, from the UK electorate
I don't like that any more than you do. But Democracy doesn't involve everyone agreeing with me.
Ireland's economy is being massively changed by Brexit. The Irish people deserve a free vote as to whether economically (and only economically) they would be better off being part of the British Isles. As opposed to being part of a European "Union" that wants to prevent them trading with their neighbour.
There has been a deal agreed between the UK and the EU about the island of Ireland. It is a bad deal. 2 parties agreed to it. And 2 parties, not 1, are at fault for that.
I appreciate that you don't agree with that. You keep banging on about the faults of one side. While totally ignoring the other. It's like being in the playground "He started it, Miss!"
Guess which 2 nations had little or no say in it. Northern Ireland. And Ireland.
PS-love these irrelevant "minute" islands outside or inside the EU when it suits. Like the Canaries-that have a population way higher than Northern Ireland. Or that tiny little Greenland. Or French Guiana-that are free to import US processed meat
We deserve a leader that can plan for the future, not a buffoon who couldn’t run a bath let alone the country
Brexit is definitely not done even after over five years of planning and negotiations. Lord David Frost has done a sterling job giving away our birthright and has seemingly caused untold financial damage to our future. He also assisted Boris Johnson in apparently misleading the British people, parliament and the EU.
Yeah cos the Americans never encouraged the raising of funds for a terrorist organisation. Neither did they permit guns, drugs, cash and people to pass unhindered through their borders in the name of the Great struggle. Tell em to F*** Off
We would be completely safe from the threat of chlorine washed chicken, hormone fed beef, and GM crops, if you were leading the trade negotiations.
But this also shows the unnecessary inflexibility of the EU's position.
In theory, we could sign trade deals with countries that do not conform to EU safety standards for food. In theory, we could fail to conform to the various worker safety standards.
If the EU were to say that the minute we diverge on either of the above, we could not export to Northern Ireland without border checks, I could understand their position.
But-we haven't. There is no evidence to show wholesale transfers of sausages etc being transferred to Ireland. It's just unnecessarily penalising the people of Northern Ireland.
Compare and contrast with other borders. So-for example-if you are deemed to be some distance from Mainland Europe, you get all sorts of exemptions. So-for example-Spanish firms based in the Canaries are exempt from having to charge VAT.
There are 43 land borders between EU and non-EU countries. And precisely none of them have the same restrictions as those imposed on Northern Ireland.
PS. Favourite trivia question in a while:-
Which country has the longest land border with France?
Germany? Spain? No-it is actually Brazil (as French Guiana is part of France and in the EU)
They seem very flexible to me.
UK to agree to ‘conditions’ with EU as both sides prepare truce to avoid ‘sausage war’
An eleventh-hour agreement will come just hours ahead of the expiration of the grace period on 1 July, which would have prevented shipments of the products from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.
The prohibition of chilled meats, including mince and sausages, is one element of the contentious Northern Ireland Protocol, which erects economic trade barriers in the Irish Sea.
The prime minister’s official spokesperson said on Tuesday that No 10 expected a deal to avoid a ban on the shipments of sausages and other chilled meats would be reached “soon” on terms “acceptable to the UK”.
According to the Irish broadcaster RTE, the agreement will coincide with a unilateral declaration signing up to a number of conditions, including a commitment for the UK to continue aligning with EU food safety and animal health rules for another three months.
Mr Johnson’s government had previously threatened to unilaterally extend the grace period in a move which would have triggered swift retaliation from the EU for a breach of the Brexit agreement — leading to suggestions of a so-called “sausage war”.
Speaking on Monday, Mr Sefcovic said the extra three months would enable negotiators from both the UK and the EU to find a more long-term solution.
He said he was confident an extension would be granted “that will address both sides’ needs and concern”, adding an “obvious” way to remove new checks and restrictions on a longer-term basis would be for the UK agree on an animal and plant standards deal that would see London align with Brussels.
Giving evidence virtually to a special sitting of the Northern Ireland Assembly’s Executive Office committee, Mr Sefcovic said the EU was prepared to accommodate flexibilities to reduce the number of checks in the Irish Sea to the “absolute minimum possible”.
However, the UK had to reciprocate by demonstrating a commitment to the “full and faithful” implementation of the Protocol, he said.
“We are willing to consider taking bold steps if the UK government demonstrates a clear and concrete commitment to implementing the protocol in full,” he said.
Yeah cos the Americans never encouraged the raising of funds for a terrorist organisation. Neither did they permit guns, drugs, cash and people to pass unhindered through their borders in the name of the Great struggle. Tell em to F*** Off
We would be completely safe from the threat of chlorine washed chicken, hormone fed beef, and GM crops, if you were leading the trade negotiations.
But this also shows the unnecessary inflexibility of the EU's position.
In theory, we could sign trade deals with countries that do not conform to EU safety standards for food. In theory, we could fail to conform to the various worker safety standards.
If the EU were to say that the minute we diverge on either of the above, we could not export to Northern Ireland without border checks, I could understand their position.
But-we haven't. There is no evidence to show wholesale transfers of sausages etc being transferred to Ireland. It's just unnecessarily penalising the people of Northern Ireland.
Compare and contrast with other borders. So-for example-if you are deemed to be some distance from Mainland Europe, you get all sorts of exemptions. So-for example-Spanish firms based in the Canaries are exempt from having to charge VAT.
There are 43 land borders between EU and non-EU countries. And precisely none of them have the same restrictions as those imposed on Northern Ireland.
PS. Favourite trivia question in a while:-
Which country has the longest land border with France?
Germany? Spain? No-it is actually Brazil (as French Guiana is part of France and in the EU)
Maybe our side arent very flexible?
Brexit: David Frost says it’s not his job to solve EU touring crisis hitting musicians
Brexit minister David Frost has washed his hands of the crisis forcing musicians to abandon tours of the EU, despite Boris Johnson promising he would “fix” it.
And he downplayed the anger of top musicians such as Elton John, who has accused ministers of lying, because the star “had his first hits before the UK even became a member the European Union”.
“I feel sorry for Michel Barnier,” said an exasperated Julian Knight, the Conservative chair of the Commons culture committee, referring to the EU negotiator.
In late March, the prime minister told MPs he would “fix” the crisis, saying: “David Frost – Lord Frost – is in overall charge of making this happen.”
But, three months later, the minister said: “It is the responsibility of DCMS [the department for digital, culture, music and sport] to take it forward with our embassies.”
The stance amounts to a rejection of the plea by industry groups for a cross-EU visa-waiver agreement – which the EU proposed last year but, as The Independent revealed, the UK rejected.
Instead, Lord Frost insisted the only route open was bilateral negotiations with 27 national capitals, although that will not allow cross-border touring of the EU to be restored fully.
Last year, ministers pledged that free movement would continue for performers, but the minister told the committee: “The country took a decision to leave the European Union.
Ireland has 2 vitally important (and biggest) markets for exports and imports. They are the USA and the UK. The EU's mantra on European "Union" seeks to prevent Ireland trading with it's biggest partners.
You may think Kate Hoey is mad, but I believe it is not in Ireland's best economic interests to be in a trading bloc that seeks to penalise Ireland's biggest customers. The deal as it stands is just as bad for Ireland as it is the UK.
The UK is eager to have/continue the special trading relationship that it has had with Ireland since before the EEC (never mind the EU) was formed. In particular, the North West of Ireland and the West of Northern Ireland are much more dependant on one another than on London, Belfast or Dublin.
If there has to be trading posts set up, that will be at the EU's insistence, and (presumably) at Ireland's cost. Because it is not our Single Market. Compare and contrast this with the dispensations given to the Canaries, French dependencies, even the UK bases on Cyprus.
When we were in the EU, and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc were not, the EU did not adopt the same position as in Northern Ireland now.
The best people to decide whats best for Ireland, are the Irish Electorate.
I find it difficult to follow your reasoning.
Once we left the EU, there had to be a customs border, the border had to go in the Irish Sea.
There were no other realistic options.
Once we became a third country the number of border checks were bound to increase.
Nobody moaned about the small number of border checks between UK/NI that took place while we were still members.
The number of checks that would be required would be directly related to our post Brexit alignment with the EU.
I recall Michelle Barnier making it very clear in the Boris negotiations, when he said that it would be possible to maintain frictionless trade, and that the amount of friction would depend on the closeness of our ongoing relationship.
Boris wanted to diverge without friction.
Having his cake, and eating it was not on offer.
The friction is causing hold ups, yet this could be avoided with a stroke of a pen, by signing a veterinary agreement.
This would reduce the number of checks required by 80%.
This could even be done on a temporary basis.
Boris has chosen instead to unilaterally extend grace periods to minimise the problems.
Some of the delays are being caused by a lack of staff.
Therefore out fault.
There is no doubt in my mind that Boris has caused this mess.
I think that the border checks have created a wider problem.
At least some of the protests in NI appear to be about the imposition of a border between UK/NI, rather than border checks.
I dont think the protests have anything to do with sausages.
I dont think that Boris will able to decrease tensions in NI, even if he were able to reduce checks.
Although the border checks will just exacerbate the situation.
If my memory serves, when Boris ripped up Theresa Mays backstop, he came up with the protocol as an alternative.
There was no Irish Sea border in the backstop.
As far as the Unionists are concerned, it would appear that the border that separates them from the rest of the UK is the problem, nothing to do with EU rules.
Whatever happens to the protocol, the border will remain.
As I have said before the real problem is Brexit.
I am not sure that minute islands anywhere are at all relevant.
I appreciate that you find it difficult to follow my reasoning. The reason is quite simple. Try removing the enormous set of blinkers you have on, which keep making you adopt the frankly ridiculous position that absolutely everything about the EU is wonderful, and everything about Brexit is terrible. That is as unsustainable as saying there are no problems at all.
You start by saying
"The best people to decide whats best for Ireland, are the Irish Electorate."
Yet you have no problem whatsoever ignoring the UK electorate in relation to what is best for the UK. It is trite to try and blame Brexit just on the Conservatives. It happened like this:-
1. In 2014 an essentially single-issue Party, UKIP won the UK European elections 2. The Conservative Party, worried that they were about to be overtaken on the Rabid Right, promised a free vote on the EU 3. The UK electorate voted to Leave 4. In subsequent elections, the Tories promised a Hard Brexit, and got a massive Majority. You know, from the UK electorate
I don't like that any more than you do. But Democracy doesn't involve everyone agreeing with me.
Ireland's economy is being massively changed by Brexit. The Irish people deserve a free vote as to whether economically (and only economically) they would be better off being part of the British Isles. As opposed to being part of a European "Union" that wants to prevent them trading with their neighbour.
There has been a deal agreed between the UK and the EU about the island of Ireland. It is a bad deal. 2 parties agreed to it. And 2 parties, not 1, are at fault for that.
I appreciate that you don't agree with that. You keep banging on about the faults of one side. While totally ignoring the other. It's like being in the playground "He started it, Miss!"
Guess which 2 nations had little or no say in it. Northern Ireland. And Ireland.
PS-love these irrelevant "minute" islands outside or inside the EU when it suits. Like the Canaries-that have a population way higher than Northern Ireland. Or that tiny little Greenland. Or French Guiana-that are free to import US processed meat
'Be honest!' Coveney lashes out at Boris over threats to scrap hated Brexit deal
But Mr Coveney argued the EU-ordered trade checks on goods travelling between mainland Britain and the region does not "undermine their Britishness".
He fumed: "I don't agree with that but can understand how that perspective has developed and many have really forced that messaging, and added a language of the identity of politics to the Protocol that really has fired up many in the loyalist community in particular who feel this is threatening their identity.
"We are all working to ensure that we have a calm summer, but it wouldn't take a lot to spark, primarily young people, to lash out as they did in April because of the perceptions that many have, that they haven't been listened to, that their tradition isn't being respected, that they have in some way been outmanoeuvred through the Brexit process and the implementation of the Protocol."
Downing Street has threatened to unilaterally scrap elements of the protocol amid frustrations that the arrangements cause too much friction between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
Unionists have demanded Boris Johnson rips up the entire post-Brexit border fix because of their concerns.
Speaking at an online event, Mr Coveney said there was a need to be "honest with people" that there is no "credible" alternative to the Protocol.
To keep the Irish border open, the area effectively remains part of the EU's single market and checks are now made on some products arriving from the rest of the UK.
Unionists are furious it has driven a series of economic and regulatory barriers between the region and the rest of the UK.
"To scrap it and replace just isn't realistic and it is important that I am honest about that, even though some people don't want to hear it," Mr Coveney said.
The Irish minister argued there was a need for the EU to be flexible in its demands over the implementation of the border fix.
But he added: "There is a need for the British government, in particular, to show some honesty around what has been agreed, why it was agreed, and the disruption it has prevented.
"Brexit is the disruptor here, not the Protocol. The Protocol was designed to limit the disruption of Brexit."
Ireland has 2 vitally important (and biggest) markets for exports and imports. They are the USA and the UK. The EU's mantra on European "Union" seeks to prevent Ireland trading with it's biggest partners.
You may think Kate Hoey is mad, but I believe it is not in Ireland's best economic interests to be in a trading bloc that seeks to penalise Ireland's biggest customers. The deal as it stands is just as bad for Ireland as it is the UK.
The UK is eager to have/continue the special trading relationship that it has had with Ireland since before the EEC (never mind the EU) was formed. In particular, the North West of Ireland and the West of Northern Ireland are much more dependant on one another than on London, Belfast or Dublin.
If there has to be trading posts set up, that will be at the EU's insistence, and (presumably) at Ireland's cost. Because it is not our Single Market. Compare and contrast this with the dispensations given to the Canaries, French dependencies, even the UK bases on Cyprus.
When we were in the EU, and the Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc were not, the EU did not adopt the same position as in Northern Ireland now.
The best people to decide whats best for Ireland, are the Irish Electorate.
I find it difficult to follow your reasoning.
Once we left the EU, there had to be a customs border, the border had to go in the Irish Sea.
There were no other realistic options.
Once we became a third country the number of border checks were bound to increase.
Nobody moaned about the small number of border checks between UK/NI that took place while we were still members.
The number of checks that would be required would be directly related to our post Brexit alignment with the EU.
I recall Michelle Barnier making it very clear in the Boris negotiations, when he said that it would be possible to maintain frictionless trade, and that the amount of friction would depend on the closeness of our ongoing relationship.
Boris wanted to diverge without friction.
Having his cake, and eating it was not on offer.
The friction is causing hold ups, yet this could be avoided with a stroke of a pen, by signing a veterinary agreement.
This would reduce the number of checks required by 80%.
This could even be done on a temporary basis.
Boris has chosen instead to unilaterally extend grace periods to minimise the problems.
Some of the delays are being caused by a lack of staff.
Therefore out fault.
There is no doubt in my mind that Boris has caused this mess.
I think that the border checks have created a wider problem.
At least some of the protests in NI appear to be about the imposition of a border between UK/NI, rather than border checks.
I dont think the protests have anything to do with sausages.
I dont think that Boris will able to decrease tensions in NI, even if he were able to reduce checks.
Although the border checks will just exacerbate the situation.
If my memory serves, when Boris ripped up Theresa Mays backstop, he came up with the protocol as an alternative.
There was no Irish Sea border in the backstop.
As far as the Unionists are concerned, it would appear that the border that separates them from the rest of the UK is the problem, nothing to do with EU rules.
Whatever happens to the protocol, the border will remain.
As I have said before the real problem is Brexit.
I am not sure that minute islands anywhere are at all relevant.
I appreciate that you find it difficult to follow my reasoning. The reason is quite simple. Try removing the enormous set of blinkers you have on, which keep making you adopt the frankly ridiculous position that absolutely everything about the EU is wonderful, and everything about Brexit is terrible. That is as unsustainable as saying there are no problems at all.
You start by saying
"The best people to decide whats best for Ireland, are the Irish Electorate."
Yet you have no problem whatsoever ignoring the UK electorate in relation to what is best for the UK. It is trite to try and blame Brexit just on the Conservatives. It happened like this:-
1. In 2014 an essentially single-issue Party, UKIP won the UK European elections 2. The Conservative Party, worried that they were about to be overtaken on the Rabid Right, promised a free vote on the EU 3. The UK electorate voted to Leave 4. In subsequent elections, the Tories promised a Hard Brexit, and got a massive Majority. You know, from the UK electorate
I don't like that any more than you do. But Democracy doesn't involve everyone agreeing with me.
Ireland's economy is being massively changed by Brexit. The Irish people deserve a free vote as to whether economically (and only economically) they would be better off being part of the British Isles. As opposed to being part of a European "Union" that wants to prevent them trading with their neighbour.
There has been a deal agreed between the UK and the EU about the island of Ireland. It is a bad deal. 2 parties agreed to it. And 2 parties, not 1, are at fault for that.
I appreciate that you don't agree with that. You keep banging on about the faults of one side. While totally ignoring the other. It's like being in the playground "He started it, Miss!"
Guess which 2 nations had little or no say in it. Northern Ireland. And Ireland.
PS-love these irrelevant "minute" islands outside or inside the EU when it suits. Like the Canaries-that have a population way higher than Northern Ireland. Or that tiny little Greenland. Or French Guiana-that are free to import US processed meat
Belfast court dismisses legal challenge to Brexit Northern Ireland protocol
The high court in Belfast has thrown out a legal challenge to the Northern Ireland Brexit protocol.
Mr Justice Colton refused a judicial review, rejecting the argument of the Democratic Unionist party and others that the protocol breached the 1800 Acts of Union, declaring that “much constitutional water has passed under the bridge” since then.
During a hearing last month, legal counsel for the unionist leaders argued that the protocol was unlawful because it breached the Acts of Union and the 1998 Good Friday agreement.
Former Northern Ireland attorney general John Larkin QC had argued that the protocol breached article 6 of the Acts of Union which created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in 1800, by leaving Northern Ireland inside the EU’s customs union.
He also claimed it was contrary to the Northern Ireland Act which brought the peace deal into law.
He said: “If the power to make law for Northern Ireland can be given to Brussels, it can be given just as legally to the Oireachtas [Irish parliament].”
The legal action was brought as part of formal campaign, launched by the DUP in January, to get the protocol scrapped.
The verdict comes hours before the EU and the UK are expected to announce a new package of arrangements to ease the dispute over Brexit checks on goods crossing the Irish Sea, which some have called the “sausage wars”. The announcement is scheduled for 3.30pm.
Brexit news – live: EU and UK strike ‘sausage war’ truce as Northern Ireland Protocol grace period extended
LIVE – Updated at 18:02
A temporary deal has been reached to delay a ban on the sale of chilled meats across the Irish Sea, forcing the UK to abide by Brussels’ food standards rules.
Ministers believe the agreement allows for further discussions to continue for a permanent solution to end the so-called sausage wars.
Labour urges PM ‘not to waste extension’ given by EU 18:20 , Sam Hancock Labour’s shadow Brexit minister has given her verdict on the extension news today.
Baroness Jenny Chapman said: “An extension to the chilled meats grace period is welcome. Nobody wants to see British products being blocked from entering Northern Ireland. This would be totally unnecessary and only add to current tensions.
However she added: “Boris Johnson must not waste this extension, the government must stop playing games and instead use this period to come up with a long-term solution to the flaws in the deal he agreed with the EU.”
Sefcovic says EU has shown it is flexible, despite UK accusations 16:32 , Sam Hancock More from Maros Sefcovic. The Slovakian diplomat said measures agreed between the EU and UK were an “unquestionable response to those in the UK suggesting the EU is inflexible”.
He told a Brussels briefing the bloc had put together “a significant set of practical solutions” helping facilitate the every day life of communities in Northern Ireland”.
“I am convinced that these forthcoming solutions are a true testament to our commitment to the people of Northern Ireland and to the Good Friday Belfast agreement,” he said.
EU insits extension to chilled meat grace period is ‘temporary’ 16:20 , Sam Hancock Maros Sefcovic, the EU’s post-Brexit negotiator, has told a Brussels briefing that the EU was not issuing a “blank cheque” by agreeing to extend the grace period.
“We are accommodating the UK’s request to extend the grace period for the movement of chilled meats from Great Britain to Northern Ireland by an additional three months until September 30 of this year,” he said.
“However, we are not issuing a blank cheque. This solution is of temporary nature in which strong conditions are attached.”
Boris Johnson’s Brexit minister David Frost this month formally requested a three-month extension to the grace period before a ban on chilled meat exports to Northern Ireland, from 30 June to 30 September. ‘Bigger issues to resolve than sausage war,’ says industry boss 16:06 , Sam Hancock An industry chief has welcomed the chilled meats deal between the EU and UK, but said there are still big issues to resolve.
Aodhan Connolly, director of the Northern Ireland Retail Consortium, said today: “While it is good to see the EU and the UK cooperating on this issue and reaching agreement, this is, in trade terms, a peripheral matter.
“The most pressing issue is the fate of the thousands of food products moving daily from GB to NI, which will be subject to extensive controls when that grace period ends in October.”
He said both sides “are no closer to a decision on this” and that there is “frustration felt across business”.
“We can see the technical solutions that are possible, such as a trusted trader scheme, yet there does not seem to be the political will to deliver them,” Mr Connolly said, adding: “We need both sides to live up to their commitments and find a pragmatic solution ... yet again the clock is ticking.”
Yeah cos the Americans never encouraged the raising of funds for a terrorist organisation. Neither did they permit guns, drugs, cash and people to pass unhindered through their borders in the name of the Great struggle. Tell em to F*** Off
We would be completely safe from the threat of chlorine washed chicken, hormone fed beef, and GM crops, if you were leading the trade negotiations.
But this also shows the unnecessary inflexibility of the EU's position.
In theory, we could sign trade deals with countries that do not conform to EU safety standards for food. In theory, we could fail to conform to the various worker safety standards.
If the EU were to say that the minute we diverge on either of the above, we could not export to Northern Ireland without border checks, I could understand their position.
But-we haven't. There is no evidence to show wholesale transfers of sausages etc being transferred to Ireland. It's just unnecessarily penalising the people of Northern Ireland.
Compare and contrast with other borders. So-for example-if you are deemed to be some distance from Mainland Europe, you get all sorts of exemptions. So-for example-Spanish firms based in the Canaries are exempt from having to charge VAT.
There are 43 land borders between EU and non-EU countries. And precisely none of them have the same restrictions as those imposed on Northern Ireland.
PS. Favourite trivia question in a while:-
Which country has the longest land border with France?
Germany? Spain? No-it is actually Brazil (as French Guiana is part of France and in the EU)
Brexit’s NI Protocol is lawful but conflicts with Acts of Union, judge rules
Outside court, Mr Habib said: “The judge found against us on every ground but, crucially, what he found was the Act of Union Article 6, a fundamental part of the Act of Union 1800, no longer exists, that Northern Ireland and Great Britain have effectively been severed by the Protocol.
“It seems to have just gone through Parliament without even the Prime Minister recognising that his own act, the Northern Ireland Protocol, has actually broken the union of the United Kingdom.”
1. Why does the EU have to make things so difficult for the British Isles (for want of a better term) in relation to Northern Ireland? When we were in the EU, there were no similar restrictions imposed to the parts of the British Isles that were not in the EU, such as The Channel Islands or the Isle of Man. Similarly, the Canary Islands seem to have all sorts of exemptions, allowing them to be in or out of the EU whenever it suits. It's almost as though the EU is being sulky and vindictive.
2. The various bits about petrol prices in this thread. There are only 3 significant oil exporters/producers in the Continent of Europe. Russia, Norway, and the UK. None of which are in the EU. Being in or out of the EU is irrelevant to pricing. The simple reasons why petrol is expensive in this country are because of the taxes we impose and the pandemic.
On the second point, @TheEdge949 was claiming that cheaper petrol was a Brexit benefit. Yet according to the RAC that is not the case, and as you quite rightly say, it is irrelevant anyway.
On the first point people in this country never seem to tire of blaming the EU for anything that is bad or goes wrong.
The NI problems are created by Brexit, rather than the protocol. Although the protocol is an agreement that we signed only a matter of months ago. Yet here you are criticising the EU for insisting that we implement the rules that have been agreed. Boris wants the penny and the bun. We had a very clear choice of close alignment, or new rules. We chose the new rules, but now we dont like them. The EU have offered to eliminate 80% of the border checks if we were prepared to align more closely. We didnt want that, and we dont like the rules that we have agreed to either.
It is unfortunate that we have a PM that lives in cloud cuckoo land.
Boris invented the NI protocol when he binned the backstop. We havent even implemented all the rules yet, as we are still in the grace period. The number of problems are likely to increase as we diverge from EU rules, and the grace periods end.
Boris billed the situation in NI as the best of both worlds.
We created a customs border in the Irish Sea. A customs border is usually somewhere where checks are carried out. In fact what would be the point of having a customs border if no checks were carried out.
We seem to be trivialising the debate by saying it is about sausages, when really it isnt.
How can you just blame one side, when there was an agreement? All the EU seem to want is for us to implement the rules that we have agreed to.
It is not as simple as you would wish.
I agree that Boris knew fine well that his "solution" for Northern Ireland was little different from May's deal. Better polished, better packaged to fool from afar, but still a ****.
Thing is-what option did he have? The UK population voted to leave, and then voted Boris in big time to affirm rejection of the Customs Union. Politically, given the options open to him, he had no realistic alternative.
Whereas the EU had far more options. They could have shown the flexibility shown to the Canary Islands, to Liechtenstein, to Scandinavia, to Monaco. They could have come up with a solution that helped Ireland and Northern Ireland. One that suited its Members. Instead of what they did choose-the option that suited the institution of the EU.
The Irish Sea border was created by BOTH the EU and the UK. And demonstrates why, politically, I trust the EU exactly as much as this Government.
Yeah cos the Americans never encouraged the raising of funds for a terrorist organisation. Neither did they permit guns, drugs, cash and people to pass unhindered through their borders in the name of the Great struggle. Tell em to F*** Off
We would be completely safe from the threat of chlorine washed chicken, hormone fed beef, and GM crops, if you were leading the trade negotiations.
But this also shows the unnecessary inflexibility of the EU's position.
In theory, we could sign trade deals with countries that do not conform to EU safety standards for food. In theory, we could fail to conform to the various worker safety standards.
If the EU were to say that the minute we diverge on either of the above, we could not export to Northern Ireland without border checks, I could understand their position.
But-we haven't. There is no evidence to show wholesale transfers of sausages etc being transferred to Ireland. It's just unnecessarily penalising the people of Northern Ireland.
Compare and contrast with other borders. So-for example-if you are deemed to be some distance from Mainland Europe, you get all sorts of exemptions. So-for example-Spanish firms based in the Canaries are exempt from having to charge VAT.
There are 43 land borders between EU and non-EU countries. And precisely none of them have the same restrictions as those imposed on Northern Ireland.
PS. Favourite trivia question in a while:-
Which country has the longest land border with France?
Germany? Spain? No-it is actually Brazil (as French Guiana is part of France and in the EU)
Comments
Like the Canada deal that had no level playing field conditions.
Yet Canada arent a competitor that is on their doorstep.
I think the most serious aspects of the Brexit deal, will affect The Union.
The border checks are likely to be reduced.
A more intelligent PM would do this by negotiation rather than by taking unilateral decisions which breach International Law.
The biggest problem is that of identity.
How can the people of NI feel British when they are separated by a border, and have to follow some of EU laws.
A different result was possible, but we didnt want it.
The Guardian view on Northern Ireland: Boris Johnson isn’t bothered
With unionist opposition so aroused over the Northern Ireland Brexit protocol, which creates a trade border with Britain in the Irish Sea, this threatens to be a very hot political summer.
The crucial issue facing the new DUP leadership is therefore the protocol. Running for the leadership a month ago, Sir Jeffrey pledged that he would “vigorously oppose the protocol both in principle and in practice”. But demands to abolish the protocol are not going to succeed. For one thing, the EU will never agree. For another, the majority of Northern Ireland voters want the UK to agree to regulatory alignment with the EU. So Sir Jeffrey’s words when he was elected this week, calling on the UK and EU to “step up and recognise the flaws of the protocol”, are significant. They could be the start of a more realistic, but still challenging, effort to steer unionist opinion away from insistence on the protocol’s removal.
Mr Johnson deceitfully promotes to British voters as a sausage war, when, in Northern Ireland terms, where export markets to the Irish republic are unaffected, it is not one.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-guardian-view-on-northern-ireland-boris-johnson-isn-t-bothered/ar-AALoXqp?ocid=msedgntp
A collapse in British exports to the Irish Republic since Brexit has handed Dublin an extraordinary trade surplus with London, new figures show.
The Irish government says new trading red tape explains a €2 billion plunge in the value of goods sales – 47.6 per cent in the first quarter of this year, compared with the start of 2020.
It is revealed after ferry routes were expanded between the country and France, to bypass British ports mired in the extra paperwork brought by Boris Johnson’s trade agreement.
The figures, published by Dublin, suggest its companies have switched to buying products directly from EU countries, rather than from across the Irish Sea.
The figures also show – probably to the alarm of Unionist in the north – a big increase in trade on the island of Ireland, as outlets there look south for more products.
Goods exports to Northern Ireland increased by 22.4 per cent year-on-year – while imports into the Republic soared by 44.2 per cent.
The extra ferry services between Ireland and the Continent have been dubbed “Brexit buster” routes, threatening business at ports such as Holyhead and Liverpool.
At Rosslare, sailings and cargo capacity for roll-on, roll-off shipments to France quadrupled in a single month. Other vessels are being rerouted from Belfast, Liverpool and Holyhead to Dublin-France services.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsireland/brexit-collapse-in-british-exports-hands-irish-republic-a-trade-surplus/ar-AALnUFh?ocid=msedgntp
Ireland is listening to those who have real concerns about the Northern Ireland Protocol, and “making the case strongly at an EU level for flexibility and pragmatism”, the country’s Foreign Affairs Minister has said.
Simon Coveney said he hopes that progress will be made in the “sausage war” trade dispute between the UK and the European Union in the next week.
But he added there would also have to be “an adherence to what was agreed”.
He added that the Irish Government had been advocating for more ambition around sanitary and phytosanitary standards, food standards, veterinary standards and a common approach to that from the UK and the EU “which could reduce significantly the number of checks required in airports and airports in Northern Ireland on product coming from GB”.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/ireland-listening-to-those-with-real-concerns-over-protocol-coveney-says/ar-AALp6dI?ocid=msedgntp
Products such as chilled sausages were due to be prohibited from Tuesday as a consequence of the post-Brexit Northern Ireland Protocol arrangement.
The European Commission has recommended a delay should be allowed.
The Northern Ireland Protocol was designed as part of the Brexit deal to keep Northern Ireland closely aligned with this market, ensuring free trade across the Irish border.
The EU normally bars chilled meat products from being imported into its single market.
Last week, the UK asked the EU for more time as a six-month grace period on the ban on chilled meat was due to expire.
Irish broadcaster RTÉ reported the conditions of the extension would be the UK agreeing to align with relevant EU food safety rules for its duration and further discussions about a long-term solution for Great Britain to NI food movements.
During a speech to Sinn Féin activists at a hotel in Belfast on Wednesday, Ms McDonald said talk of the protocol being abolished was "not grounded in reality".
"We need the protocol because Brexit is bad news for Ireland and bad news for the north in particular," she said.
"The DUP need to work alongside the rest of us to meet the challenges and maximise the opportunities of the Irish protocol."
DUP leader-designate Sir Jeffrey Donaldson wants the protocol to be removed.
"We don't agree with the DUP on Brexit - I hate to say 'we told you so' but we did say at the time that Brexit would be dangerous and disruptive," said the Sinn Féin president.
Her strongest warning came regarding the future of devolution and she said any attempt to collapse the institutions over Brexit would be "a huge error".
On the protocol, she reiterated Sinn Féin's position that it is here to stay, but she did welcome news that changes to the EU meat ban could happen.
She said when people engage in good faith "solutions can be found".
This was essentially Mary Lou McDonald having a public conversation with the incoming DUP leader. Next week they will meet in person.
Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) Micheál Martin said there are mechanisms to deal with trade and co-operation difficulties and space should be given on the issues that matter.
He told the Dáil (lower house of parliament) that opportunities provided by the protocol should be identified in areas such as foreign direct investment and for the dairy sector.
Sir Jeffrey said he wanted to speak to the prime minister as soon as possible, warning that it would not be realistic to expect stability at Stormont "when every unionist representative in the devolved institutions opposes the Northern Ireland Protocol".
"The government and those who claim to be protectors of peace and stability must step up and deal with the protocol in a manner which respects the constitutional and economic integrity of the United Kingdom," he said.
'Be honest'
Earlier on Wednesday, Sinn Féin MP Chris Hazzard said many businesses had benefited from the protocol and he urged the DUP to "be honest" with its party members and the public.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57579418
In Belfast's High Court, some of Northern Ireland's most senior judges heard arguments from the politicians' lawyers that the Protocol was legally "rotten to the core" and incompatible with domestic and European law.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-live-boris-could-face-supreme-court-battle-over-hated-eu-deal-judgement-in-days/ar-AALszx1?ocid=msedgntp
He still wont admit to the existence of an Irish Sea border?
Brandon Lewis
@BrandonLewis
There is no ‘Irish Sea Border’. As we have seen today, the important preparations the Govt and businesses have taken to prepare for the end of the Transition Period are keeping goods flowing freely around the country, including between GB and NI.
The first goods have crossed the new trade border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.
The 'Irish Sea border' is a consequence of Brexit and means that most commercial goods entering NI from GB require a customs declaration.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55498775
The 2021 figures show that the UK has a gross domestic product (GDP) income per head of the population of just £31,038 – behind other poor performers France on £32,622 and Finland on £34,187.
Luxembourg was found to have the highest GDP per capita in north west Europe, with more than £80,000 per person – followed by Ireland (£65,411) and Switzerland (£50,015).
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/uk-poorest-nation-per-capita-in-northwest-europe-research-shows/ar-AALxLdV?ocid=msedgntp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-s-government-is-rotten-to-the-core-as-scandalous-actions-by-matt-hancock-michael-gove-and-others-show-angus-robertson-msp/ar-AALxyEu?ocid=msedgntp
We deserve a leader that can plan for the future, not a buffoon who couldn’t run a bath let alone the country
Brexit is definitely not done even after over five years of planning and negotiations. Lord David Frost has done a sterling job giving away our birthright and has seemingly caused untold financial damage to our future. He also assisted Boris Johnson in apparently misleading the British people, parliament and the EU.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/we-deserve-a-leader-that-can-plan-for-the-future-not-a-buffoon-who-couldn-t-run-a-bath-let-alone-the-country/ar-AALAuea?ocid=msedgntp
UK to agree to ‘conditions’ with EU as both sides prepare truce to avoid ‘sausage war’
An eleventh-hour agreement will come just hours ahead of the expiration of the grace period on 1 July, which would have prevented shipments of the products from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.
The prohibition of chilled meats, including mince and sausages, is one element of the contentious Northern Ireland Protocol, which erects economic trade barriers in the Irish Sea.
The prime minister’s official spokesperson said on Tuesday that No 10 expected a deal to avoid a ban on the shipments of sausages and other chilled meats would be reached “soon” on terms “acceptable to the UK”.
According to the Irish broadcaster RTE, the agreement will coincide with a unilateral declaration signing up to a number of conditions, including a commitment for the UK to continue aligning with EU food safety and animal health rules for another three months.
Mr Johnson’s government had previously threatened to unilaterally extend the grace period in a move which would have triggered swift retaliation from the EU for a breach of the Brexit agreement — leading to suggestions of a so-called “sausage war”.
Speaking on Monday, Mr Sefcovic said the extra three months would enable negotiators from both the UK and the EU to find a more long-term solution.
He said he was confident an extension would be granted “that will address both sides’ needs and concern”, adding an “obvious” way to remove new checks and restrictions on a longer-term basis would be for the UK agree on an animal and plant standards deal that would see London align with Brussels.
Giving evidence virtually to a special sitting of the Northern Ireland Assembly’s Executive Office committee, Mr Sefcovic said the EU was prepared to accommodate flexibilities to reduce the number of checks in the Irish Sea to the “absolute minimum possible”.
However, the UK had to reciprocate by demonstrating a commitment to the “full and faithful” implementation of the Protocol, he said.
“We are willing to consider taking bold steps if the UK government demonstrates a clear and concrete commitment to implementing the protocol in full,” he said.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/uk-to-agree-to-conditions-with-eu-as-both-sides-prepare-truce-to-avoid-sausage-war/ar-AALB6RG?ocid=msedgntp
Brexit: David Frost says it’s not his job to solve EU touring crisis hitting musicians
Brexit minister David Frost has washed his hands of the crisis forcing musicians to abandon tours of the EU, despite Boris Johnson promising he would “fix” it.
And he downplayed the anger of top musicians such as Elton John, who has accused ministers of lying, because the star “had his first hits before the UK even became a member the European Union”.
“I feel sorry for Michel Barnier,” said an exasperated Julian Knight, the Conservative chair of the Commons culture committee, referring to the EU negotiator.
In late March, the prime minister told MPs he would “fix” the crisis, saying: “David Frost – Lord Frost – is in overall charge of making this happen.”
But, three months later, the minister said: “It is the responsibility of DCMS [the department for digital, culture, music and sport] to take it forward with our embassies.”
The stance amounts to a rejection of the plea by industry groups for a cross-EU visa-waiver agreement – which the EU proposed last year but, as The Independent revealed, the UK rejected.
Instead, Lord Frost insisted the only route open was bilateral negotiations with 27 national capitals, although that will not allow cross-border touring of the EU to be restored fully.
Last year, ministers pledged that free movement would continue for performers, but the minister told the committee: “The country took a decision to leave the European Union.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/brexit-david-frost-says-it-s-not-his-job-to-solve-eu-touring-crisis-hitting-musicians/ar-AALAtu0?ocid=msedgntp
But Mr Coveney argued the EU-ordered trade checks on goods travelling between mainland Britain and the region does not "undermine their Britishness".
He fumed: "I don't agree with that but can understand how that perspective has developed and many have really forced that messaging, and added a language of the identity of politics to the Protocol that really has fired up many in the loyalist community in particular who feel this is threatening their identity.
"We are all working to ensure that we have a calm summer, but it wouldn't take a lot to spark, primarily young people, to lash out as they did in April because of the perceptions that many have, that they haven't been listened to, that their tradition isn't being respected, that they have in some way been outmanoeuvred through the Brexit process and the implementation of the Protocol."
Downing Street has threatened to unilaterally scrap elements of the protocol amid frustrations that the arrangements cause too much friction between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
Unionists have demanded Boris Johnson rips up the entire post-Brexit border fix because of their concerns.
Speaking at an online event, Mr Coveney said there was a need to be "honest with people" that there is no "credible" alternative to the Protocol.
To keep the Irish border open, the area effectively remains part of the EU's single market and checks are now made on some products arriving from the rest of the UK.
Unionists are furious it has driven a series of economic and regulatory barriers between the region and the rest of the UK.
"To scrap it and replace just isn't realistic and it is important that I am honest about that, even though some people don't want to hear it," Mr Coveney said.
The Irish minister argued there was a need for the EU to be flexible in its demands over the implementation of the border fix.
But he added: "There is a need for the British government, in particular, to show some honesty around what has been agreed, why it was agreed, and the disruption it has prevented.
"Brexit is the disruptor here, not the Protocol. The Protocol was designed to limit the disruption of Brexit."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/be-honest-coveney-lashes-out-at-boris-over-threats-to-scrap-hated-brexit-deal/ar-AALCcmm?ocid=msedgntp
The high court in Belfast has thrown out a legal challenge to the Northern Ireland Brexit protocol.
Mr Justice Colton refused a judicial review, rejecting the argument of the Democratic Unionist party and others that the protocol breached the 1800 Acts of Union, declaring that “much constitutional water has passed under the bridge” since then.
During a hearing last month, legal counsel for the unionist leaders argued that the protocol was unlawful because it breached the Acts of Union and the 1998 Good Friday agreement.
Former Northern Ireland attorney general John Larkin QC had argued that the protocol breached article 6 of the Acts of Union which created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in 1800, by leaving Northern Ireland inside the EU’s customs union.
He also claimed it was contrary to the Northern Ireland Act which brought the peace deal into law.
He said: “If the power to make law for Northern Ireland can be given to Brussels, it can be given just as legally to the Oireachtas [Irish parliament].”
The legal action was brought as part of formal campaign, launched by the DUP in January, to get the protocol scrapped.
The verdict comes hours before the EU and the UK are expected to announce a new package of arrangements to ease the dispute over Brexit checks on goods crossing the Irish Sea, which some have called the “sausage wars”. The announcement is scheduled for 3.30pm.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/northern ireland/belfast-court-dismisses-legal-challenge-to-brexit-northern-ireland-protocol/ar-AALCmSh?ocid=msedgntp
LIVE – Updated at 18:02
A temporary deal has been reached to delay a ban on the sale of chilled meats across the Irish Sea, forcing the UK to abide by Brussels’ food standards rules.
Ministers believe the agreement allows for further discussions to continue for a permanent solution to end the so-called sausage wars.
Labour urges PM ‘not to waste extension’ given by EU
18:20 , Sam Hancock
Labour’s shadow Brexit minister has given her verdict on the extension news today.
Baroness Jenny Chapman said: “An extension to the chilled meats grace period is welcome. Nobody wants to see British products being blocked from entering Northern Ireland. This would be totally unnecessary and only add to current tensions.
However she added: “Boris Johnson must not waste this extension, the government must stop playing games and instead use this period to come up with a long-term solution to the flaws in the deal he agreed with the EU.”
Sefcovic says EU has shown it is flexible, despite UK accusations
16:32 , Sam Hancock
More from Maros Sefcovic. The Slovakian diplomat said measures agreed between the EU and UK were an “unquestionable response to those in the UK suggesting the EU is inflexible”.
He told a Brussels briefing the bloc had put together “a significant set of practical solutions” helping facilitate the every day life of communities in Northern Ireland”.
“I am convinced that these forthcoming solutions are a true testament to our commitment to the people of Northern Ireland and to the Good Friday Belfast agreement,” he said.
EU insits extension to chilled meat grace period is ‘temporary’
16:20 , Sam Hancock
Maros Sefcovic, the EU’s post-Brexit negotiator, has told a Brussels briefing that the EU was not issuing a “blank cheque” by agreeing to extend the grace period.
“We are accommodating the UK’s request to extend the grace period for the movement of chilled meats from Great Britain to Northern Ireland by an additional three months until September 30 of this year,” he said.
“However, we are not issuing a blank cheque. This solution is of temporary nature in which strong conditions are attached.”
Boris Johnson’s Brexit minister David Frost this month formally requested a three-month extension to the grace period before a ban on chilled meat exports to Northern Ireland, from 30 June to 30 September.
‘Bigger issues to resolve than sausage war,’ says industry boss
16:06 , Sam Hancock
An industry chief has welcomed the chilled meats deal between the EU and UK, but said there are still big issues to resolve.
Aodhan Connolly, director of the Northern Ireland Retail Consortium, said today: “While it is good to see the EU and the UK cooperating on this issue and reaching agreement, this is, in trade terms, a peripheral matter.
“The most pressing issue is the fate of the thousands of food products moving daily from GB to NI, which will be subject to extensive controls when that grace period ends in October.”
He said both sides “are no closer to a decision on this” and that there is “frustration felt across business”.
“We can see the technical solutions that are possible, such as a trusted trader scheme, yet there does not seem to be the political will to deliver them,” Mr Connolly said, adding: “We need both sides to live up to their commitments and find a pragmatic solution ... yet again the clock is ticking.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-news-live-eu-and-uk-strike-sausage-war-truce-as-northern-ireland-protocol-grace-period-extended/ar-AALBRBp?ocid=msedgntp
Brexit’s NI Protocol is lawful but conflicts with Acts of Union, judge rules
Outside court, Mr Habib said: “The judge found against us on every ground but, crucially, what he found was the Act of Union Article 6, a fundamental part of the Act of Union 1800, no longer exists, that Northern Ireland and Great Britain have effectively been severed by the Protocol.
“It seems to have just gone through Parliament without even the Prime Minister recognising that his own act, the Northern Ireland Protocol, has actually broken the union of the United Kingdom.”
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-ni-protocol-lawful-conflicts-180436806.html