You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.

You might need to refresh your page afterwards.

Options

Never say never! I can see how the case for a new Brexit referendum unfolds, says Emma Best

1444547495058

Comments

  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Tikay10 said:


    Only now can we properly see what an absolute mess Boris made of all this.

    Boris Johnson lists five major Brexit wins to silence Rejoiners - then savages new EU deal



    Boris Johnson has issued another attack on Rishi Sunak's record as he laid out his credentials as the guardian of Brexit.
    In a post on social media platform X championing the biggest wins of Brexit on the fourth anniversary of leaving the EU, Mr Johnson warned that Mr Sunak could be destroying its legacy.

    "We must at all costs avoid a return to anything remotely like the disastrous 'Chequers' formula whereby artificial concerns about the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland are used to keep the whole of the UK in alignment with EU rules."

    But there are also concerns that Mr Sunak is betraying Brexit with his Windsor Framework agreement on Northern Ireland which could see the UK tied to Brussels rules and regulations via the back door, according to critics.

    Mr Sunak has reportedly pledged to bring in a requirement that all new laws are screened to ensure they will not create extra trade barriers in the Irish Sea.

    But hardline Brexiteers have warned it would make it almost impossible for Great Britain to diverge from EU rules.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-lists-five-major-brexit-wins-to-silence-rejoiners-then-savages-new-eu-deal/ar-BB1hylpS?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=a4a152087802416aa0aec72b1dd50097&ei=14
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Now Boris tries to sabotage his own bungled Brexit deal with new attack on Sunak


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/boris-johnson-attacks-sunak-brexit-162842686.html
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    edited February 1
    Andrea Leadsom Roasted For Claiming Brexit Premium Is 'Cost Of Doing Business'





    Jon Sopel

    Sorry. Maybe I have false memory syndrome, but I don’t remember the Brexit campaigners during referendum warning companies that cost of doing business was going to rise steeply and become ever more bureaucratic. Maybe I wasn’t paying attention

    Sky News
    @SkyNews
    "Businesses are used to the costs of doing business"

    Dame @andrealeadsom MP tells @KayBurley businesses need to "adapt" to leaving the EU single market and the rising cost of checks on food and plant imports as a result of Brexit.





    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/andrea-leadsom-roasted-claiming-brexit-182046196.html
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,059
    edited February 3
    Here's a sentence I never thought I'd write. I completely agree with Richard Tice on this one.

    People who voted for Brexit did so for a variety of reasons. But 1 of the major ones was to seek to ensure that we took control of out own borders. And, as part of that, to seek to reduce net migration and to seek to ensure that we got to choose who came in, and who didn't. I'm not saying that is right, or laudable-just that is what was voted for.

    Since 2016, net migration has skyrocketed. In the 1990s it was about 100,000 a year. 2000-2015-about 250,000 a year. Now? 750,000 a year. Treble that pre-Brexit.

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

    Then there is non-EU migration. As recently as the year to June 2021, that figure stood at 368,000. Whereas the number in the year to June 2023, that number is 968,000.

    This Govt keeps diverting our attention by its rhetoric in relation to illegal migration of 30,000 or so. While waving in an extra 600,000 people a year. Who, according to the emigration figures, do not appear to be leaving.

    Finally, look at the stats on people coming in on Student visas, only to change their category within 2 years in order to remain in the UK. In 2018 only 3% (of a far smaller number) chose this route. Now? 28%
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Essexphil said:

    Here's a sentence I never thought I'd write. I completely agree with Richard Tice on this one.

    People who voted for Brexit did so for a variety of reasons. But 1 of the major ones was to seek to ensure that we took control of out own borders. And, as part of that, to seek to reduce net migration and to seek to ensure that we got to choose who came in, and who didn't. I'm not saying that is right, or laudable-just that is what was voted for.

    Since 2016, net migration has skyrocketed. In the 1990s it was about 100,000 a year. 2000-2015-about 250,000 a year. Now? 750,000 a year. Treble that pre-Brexit.

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

    Then there is non-EU migration. As recently as the year to June 2021, that figure stood at 368,000. Whereas the number in the year to June 2023, that number is 968,000.

    This Govt keeps diverting our attention by its rhetoric in relation to illegal migration of 30,000 or so. While waving in an extra 600,000 people a year. Who, according to the emigration figures, do not appear to be leaving.

    Finally, look at the stats on people coming in on Student visas, only to change their category within 2 years in order to remain in the UK. In 2018 only 3% (of a far smaller number) chose this route. Now? 28%

    I wouldnt disagree with any of that.

    I would also say that they seem incapable of coming up with a reasonable plan.
    There was an issue regarding the granting of visas to family members of those arriving on student visas.
    They subsequently promised that this would be addressed.
    I wouldnt argue with this either.
    I would question why this practice started in the first place.

    Family members in general, must have then become a target.
    Because they subsequently decided to deny visas to the children of migrant single Mothers employed in the NHS, and social care.
    This is despite receiving extensive proof that these women are the childrens primary caregivers, and them being promised before leaving that their children could follow.
    Which is in line with current immigration rules.

    It would seem like someone without a brain thought that family members seem like a good target, lets stop a few more getting in.
    Without giving it much thought.

    It then transpired that foreign students require lower grades than British students in order to get a place at University.
    I know the reason for this, but it hardly seems fair.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Essexphil said:

    Here's a sentence I never thought I'd write. I completely agree with Richard Tice on this one.

    People who voted for Brexit did so for a variety of reasons. But 1 of the major ones was to seek to ensure that we took control of out own borders. And, as part of that, to seek to reduce net migration and to seek to ensure that we got to choose who came in, and who didn't. I'm not saying that is right, or laudable-just that is what was voted for.

    Since 2016, net migration has skyrocketed. In the 1990s it was about 100,000 a year. 2000-2015-about 250,000 a year. Now? 750,000 a year. Treble that pre-Brexit.

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

    Then there is non-EU migration. As recently as the year to June 2021, that figure stood at 368,000. Whereas the number in the year to June 2023, that number is 968,000.

    This Govt keeps diverting our attention by its rhetoric in relation to illegal migration of 30,000 or so. While waving in an extra 600,000 people a year. Who, according to the emigration figures, do not appear to be leaving.

    Finally, look at the stats on people coming in on Student visas, only to change their category within 2 years in order to remain in the UK. In 2018 only 3% (of a far smaller number) chose this route. Now? 28%

    I have Tice filed in the Boris, Farage, and Trump category.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Sir Jeffrey Donaldson attacks legal opinion on Stormont deal




    DUP leader Sir Jeffrey Donaldson said he “fundamentally disagreed” with a legal opinion from former Northern Ireland attorney general John Larkin which rejected the contention his deal to restore Stormont has removed an Irish Sea border. Sir Jeffrey also attacked TUV leader Jim Allister, who was one of the critics of the deal, who commissioned the legal opinion.


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/sir-jeffrey-donaldson-attacks-legal-145658509.html
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Stormont deal has not removed Irish Sea border, says ex-attorney general


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/stormont-deal-not-removed-irish-123900232.html
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Anti Brexit Pundit Has Blazing Row With Rees Mogg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikNKMK5E6Ok
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    edited February 7
    Sorry Mark @TheEdge949 .
    I only just noticed these, when looking back at previous comments.
    They seem to have disappeared in the posting of them.


    YOU KNOW THAT OPTIONS WERE NOT MADE AVAILABLE ON THE BALLOT, IT WAS A SIMPLE IN OR OUT. PERHAPS REMAIN COCKED UP THERE

    Really, I wasnt aware that remain was responsible for organising the ballot paper?



    NO OF COURSE YOU DONT. BOTH SIDES CONTINUALLY LOOK FOR A REASON TO TAKE THEIR BALL HOME AND CURRENTLY THE HARD BORDER IS THE EXCUSE BUT WE BOTH KNOW THAT THE TWO SIDES WILL NEVER ACCEPT GOVERNANCE FROM THE OTHER.

    The hard border in Ireland is not possible because of the GFA.
    I therefore think that it cannot be described as an excuse.
    What we are left with is the only option that is available.
    I can see why Unionists would object to the border.
    The DUP want to have their cake, and eat it.
    They want the border removed, not to come under any EU rules, and retain access to the single market.
    Good luck with that.




    THATS PERHAPS BECAUSE WE DONT NEED FEEL THE TO INSULT THEM, WE'VE WLKED AWAY AND THEY ARE A LITTLE PEEVED AT US

    I am not having that.
    You said this,

    The EU itself is absolutely mortified that we have left and whilst they would give their eye teeth for Britain to rejoin, act like a petulant child and hurl insults whilst spitefully looking to undermine everything. They've basically scratched all our records before handing them back.

    I merely pointed out that all the insults seem to be coming from our side.




    I DON'T KNOW THAT'S NOT MY JOB, YOU TELL ME. WHEN I DECIDE TO TAKE MY CAR IN FOR REPAIR I DON'T EXPECT TO HAVE TO TELL THE MECHANIC WHAT TO DO TO MAKE THE FAULT BETTER. I TELL HIM THE PROBLEM AND LEAVE IT TO HIM TO FIX, THAT'S HIS JOB

    I just wondered in you had any specific ideas on any improvements that could be made.

    You said this,

    As for those charged with making Brexit work, if they actually stopped being pompous and arrogant and acknowledged that they now have an imperfect situation which requires real work, effort and compromise then things might start to improve.

    Well it has been over 7 years since the referendum, and 3 years since we actually left.
    There were benefits that we enjoyed from our membership, which we have now obviously lost.
    A number of PMs, Cabinets, and Brexit Ministers, have attempted to negotiate, and renegotiate the best deal we could get.
    Although we have ended up with the Brexit we chose.
    I think the real point is that there is a limit to what could be achieved as non members.



    WELL, THE YOUNG NEVER MAKE A BAD DECISION DO THEY. SO THATS ALRIGHT THEN.

    That is a silly thing to say.
    As I said earlier they are probably just less biased than the oldies, and dont blame the EU for stuff they are not responsible for.

    I find it remarkable that the Tories use the "Stronger Together" argument in relation to Scottish Independence, but the opposite in the case of the EU.

    There are a couple of recent articles that sum up Brexit for me.
    The first points out that to minimise trade friction between GB/NI we have to remain aligned with the EU rules.
    The second one pointing out that to make Brexit worthwhile, and maximise the so called Brexit benefits, we have to diverge.
    Needless to say, we cant do both.

    If Britain diverges from EU rules, the number of checks necessary on British goods crossing the Brexit border to Northern Ireland could increase, which critics say will harm trade.

    It raises the prospect that new laws which mean Britain diverges from Brussels could be blocked.


    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/rishi-sunak-offers-sacrifice-brexit-212541556.html

    Brexit: UK music industry will ‘eventually die’ unless artists get access to EU, Mercury Prize winner says


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/brexit-uk-music-industry-will-eventually-die-unless-artists-get-access-to-eu-mercury-prize-winner-says/ar-BB1hUnHo?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=768ee0c68afc42d29397f7742f7bdd6d&ei=64
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Oliver Dowden forced to deny Rishi Sunak misleading the public - as Asda boss hits out at Brexit ‘lies’


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/oliver-dowden-forced-deny-rishi-140633884.html
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    edited February 8
    "TheEdge949">The problems that Brexit has created would be a whole lot easier to resolve if the various parties stopped being morons and actually moved forward instead of widening every small crack into a chasm to highlight and suit their own agendas.

    The problems that Brexit has created are exactly that.
    They are problems that Brexit has created.
    For instance, I cant remember that the Irish border was even mentioned during the referendum.
    The lack of growth in our economy is causing huge problems.
    The IFS quoted a 4% hit to our GDP, as a result of Brexit.
    This was a handicap that we didnt need.


    But of course Remoaners will do everything to make it fail so that they can wave their silly blue and yellow flags and denounce anything British as 2nd class and unsuitable whilst championing the often lamentable European ideal as the benchmark.

    I suppose the use of the term Remoaners demonstrates the high regard in which you hold remain voters.
    I think that many remain voters did so, as a result of what they thought was the best for the UK.
    I am bewildered about what you may think that remain voters could actually do to make Brexit fail?
    I was a remain voter, what could I possibly do?
    Brexit is what it is.
    Although there were a number of flavours available.
    We happened to choose the one we have got.
    There were other choices on offer.
    For instance we could have opted for the whole of the UK to remain in the SM/CU.
    This would have meant no border in the Irish Sea, but in the eyes of some leave voters this wouldnt have been a proper Brexit.
    They preferred that our economy would take a hit, and a border within the UK.
    We were supposed to be taking control of our borders.
    How is that working out?
    What did remain voters contribute to this debacle?



    The Irish problem is never going away, anybody who believes that there is any long term workable solution is misguided. Both sides are unfortunately irrevocably divided. Both Unionist and Loyalist parties now have different ends of the same stick to beat the Government with.

    I am not sure which Irish problem you are referring to?
    Although Brexit has created additional problems in NI.


    The EU itself is absolutely mortified that we have left and whilst they would give their eye teeth for Britain to rejoin, act like a petulant child and hurl insults whilst spitefully looking to undermine everything. They've basically scratched all our records before handing them back

    The EU have made no secret of the fact that they are disappointed that we have left.
    According to the polls there is a very clear majority that believe that leaving was a mistake, and are in favour of re-joining.
    As we are a democracy, it is impossible to see that we wont re-join at some point.
    I rarely see insults being reported from the EU, but there seem to be plenty from our side.


    As for those charged with making Brexit work, if they actually stopped being pompous and arrogant and acknowledged that they now have an imperfect situation which requires real work, effort and compromise then things might start to improve.

    What specifically do you think that could be done to make Brexit work?

    One thing that does strike me as ironic is that many of the younger population rail at the history of Britain and it's empirical past and yet seem only too happy to push toward building another empire albeit under a different flag.

    The younger generation was hugely in favour of remaining.
    Probably because they havent got the preconceived ideas of the older generations.
    This will account for the direction of the polls.
    More younger people qualifying to vote, and the oldies dying off.
    I am certain that because of this we will re-join at some point, although I am not sure if this will happen in my lifetime.






    Brussels hits out at UK over strike crackdown as EU claims law breaches terms of Brexit trade deal


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/brussels-hits-out-at-uk-over-strike-crackdown-as-eu-claims-law-breaches-terms-of-brexit-trade-deal/ar-BB1hYSIz?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=27c7eb6380fa41bdbe9a25bd95601ed6&ei=9
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,059
    Always love these stories.

    The referendum was June 2016. This couple had "long wished" to relocate to Mainland Europe, supposedly "to retire". Before moving to Italy. In 2015. Before the Referendum was seriously contemplated.

    It's their choice to have a Company set up in the Netherlands, with some sort of business processes in both England and Italy. Husband is now officially domiciled in Italy, and it looks like Wife is domiciled in England. Meanwhile, they manage to moan about business practices in the UK, Italy and the EU, while simultaneously choosing to sell products to the UK, EU, and the Rest of the World. If there were insurmountable problems in selling in any of those areas, they simply would not sell there.

    Brexit did not "force them to leave the UK". They had already left.

  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,336
    Essexphil said:

    Always love these stories.

    The referendum was June 2016. This couple had "long wished" to relocate to Mainland Europe, supposedly "to retire". Before moving to Italy. In 2015. Before the Referendum was seriously contemplated.

    It's their choice to have a Company set up in the Netherlands, with some sort of business processes in both England and Italy. Husband is now officially domiciled in Italy, and it looks like Wife is domiciled in England. Meanwhile, they manage to moan about business practices in the UK, Italy and the EU, while simultaneously choosing to sell products to the UK, EU, and the Rest of the World. If there were insurmountable problems in selling in any of those areas, they simply would not sell there.

    Brexit did not "force them to leave the UK". They had already left.

    Poetic licence?
Sign In or Register to comment.