Sometimes, when I disagree with someone on a subject, it is not because I am "missing the point". Sometimes, I fully understand the point someone is trying to make. And still disagree with it.
In an ideal World, I agree the police should not have to disclose certain vulnerabilities. Unfortunately, the World is not ideal.
Traditionally, the Police in these sorts of situations, just say the person is "vulnerable", and leave it at that. They have to say someone in this position is vulnerable-simply because it alters the likelihood of various possibilities. So-for example-it decreases the chance that she had chosen to disappear to start a new life, and increases the chance that she had committed suicide.
The difficulty is that social media has distorted the best way forward. Once people have started with their conspiracy theories, together with correct facts that would have been better not aired publicly, the Police are placed in an invidious position.
There are various phrases routinely used by the police which no longer provide a level of support. Simply because people dissect them, both in generality and in individual cases. For example, in murder cases:-
"Police are not looking for anyone else"="you can work out for yourself who did it" "The public should not be alarmed"="police sure it was gang/drug related"
I think it is a given that the default position would be to say little about vulnerabilities. But-what are the police to do in cases like this? The 2 conspiracy theories going round seemed to be that 1. The family were desperately skint and 2. That she had mental health problems.
The police cannot just ignore the rumours that are already there, because people treat silence as confirmation. Cannot just say 1 above is irrelevant without people doubling down on 2 above.
Once the distressing stuff is already out there, the police have to weigh up the advantages of a fuller disclosure against a now reduced harm of confirming some rumours that are already swirling about.
The faintly ridiculous bit is that the Media, who are to blame for both publicising and inviting speculation on facts the police would rather were not disclosed, feel able to blame the Police for their changed response due to the actions of the Media themselves.
Lancashire Police face two probes over 'welfare check' on Nicola Bulley 17 days before she vanished and decision to release her personal information
The Independent Office for Police Conduct says it is probing a visit made by an officer to the family home as part of a welfare check on January 10 - 17 days before the mother's disappearance. The mother of two, 45, was found by members of the public in the reeds of the River Wyre in Lancashire on Sunday - a mile from the bench where her mobile phone had been recovered 23 days earlier. The investigations follow intense criticism of Lancashire Police over its handling of the case.
The investigations follow intense criticism of Lancashire Police over its handling of the case.
'I am sure there will be lessons to be learned for Lancashire Constabulary,
Unmasked: The TikTok ghoul who covertly filmed Nicola Bulley's body being lifted from the river... and why her grieving partner Paul - the target of his outrageous smears - could sue him for everything he's got
The video opens with a man, Curtis Arnold (left), walking along a country road. He is breathing heavily and filming as he goes. You never see his face. In the distance, a police officer comes into view and begins walking towards him, waving his arms. The area is being sealed off and the anonymous figure behind the camera (we now know it was fastened in a harness around his neck) is asked to turn back. 'I came through a minute ago,' he explains, pointing in the direction of where he means, adding: 'My car is [over] there.' The officer believes him and lets him through. Once out of sight, the cameraman creeps into a field next to the River Wyre, in Lancashire, and crouches down to secretly record what is happening on the opposite side, where a drone is hovering overhead and police are pulling a potentially tragic discovery from the reeds.
Specialist divers who failed to find Nicola Bulley have been removed from the National Crime Agency expert list
Peter Faulding's Specialist Group International (SGI) has assisted in several high profile investigations and joined the search for the missing mother for three days.
Specialist divers who failed to find Nicola Bulley have been removed from the National Crime Agency expert list
Peter Faulding's Specialist Group International (SGI) has assisted in several high profile investigations and joined the search for the missing mother for three days.
Specialist divers who failed to find Nicola Bulley have been removed from the National Crime Agency expert list
Peter Faulding's Specialist Group International (SGI) has assisted in several high profile investigations and joined the search for the missing mother for three days.
A good decision I'd say. They guy was full of himself & running his mouth non-stop in a situation where a little decorum was necessary.
Peter Faulding's Specialist Group International (SGI) has assisted in several high profile investigations and joined the search for the missing mother for three days before he sensationally guaranteed she was 'not in that section of the river'
The parents of a missing man have appealed for him to return home after a three-day search of a river ended.
Northamptonshire Police said Jayran, from Towcester, was last seen by his family at about 18:00 GMT on 21 March.
The force said it concluded an underwater search of a section of the River Tove in the town on Sunday.
Pleading for his return, the 20-year-old's parents said there was "an Easter egg with your name on it waiting at home".
A police representative said officers were "continuing to explore new leads" and had established that the last known contact with Jayran was made just after 22:00 GMT on 22 March.
They said officers spent the Easter weekend speaking to people in Towcester, distributing leaflets and posters and trying to gather more information.
Det Chief Insp Johnny Campbell said while the underwater search phase of the operation had finished, "we are continuing our efforts to understand his movements up to the time of his disappearance and ultimately to find him".
The representative said officers were particularly keen to speak to anyone with information about Jayran's black The North Face jacket, which was found left on a gate on Northampton Road, next to The Watermeadows, on 1 April.
They said it was believed the coat was discovered elsewhere and officers want to speak to the person who moved it.
Northamptonshire Police have concluded an underwater river search to find missing 20-year-old Towcester man. Specialist underwater search teams have spent the past few days searching a section of the River Tove, near Towcester for the man, who has only been named as Jayran.
The search was part of the overall investigation to find Jayran, who was last seen by his family at about 6pm on Tuesday, March 21. Divers first entered the River Tove last Friday, April 7.
Neighbourhood Chief Inspector Pete Basham said: “The underwater search phase of this section of the River Tove has now concluded . I would like to thank police colleagues from other parts of the country who were able to provide this specialist support to Northamptonshire Police.
“I also want to thank the local community for their help during the past few days, not least those who we engaged with at the Towcester Park Run on Saturday morning. The community’s assistance both in terms of engaging with officers and sharing messages on social media has been incredibly helpful and we will continue to work with you as this operation moves into the next phase.
“This has been a complex and challenging missing person investigation and we will continue to explore all new leads. What we have clearly established is the last known contact made with Jayran was just after 10pm on Wednesday, March 22.”
Police are particularly keen to speak to anyone with information about Jayran’s black North Face jacket which was discovered on a gate in Northampton Road, next to The Watermeadows, on April 1. Officers believe the coat might have been found elsewhere before being placed on the gate and want to speak to the person who moved it.
Watermeadows in Towcester, where police searched the River Tove after Jayran's jacket was found nearby.
Northamptonshire Police have concluded an underwater river search to find missing 20-year-old Towcester man. Specialist underwater search teams have spent the past few days searching a section of the River Tove, near Towcester for the man, who has only been named as Jayran.
The search was part of the overall investigation to find Jayran, who was last seen by his family at about 6pm on Tuesday, March 21. Divers first entered the River Tove last Friday, April 7.
Neighbourhood Chief Inspector Pete Basham said: “The underwater search phase of this section of the River Tove has now concluded . I would like to thank police colleagues from other parts of the country who were able to provide this specialist support to Northamptonshire Police.
“I also want to thank the local community for their help during the past few days, not least those who we engaged with at the Towcester Park Run on Saturday morning. The community’s assistance both in terms of engaging with officers and sharing messages on social media has been incredibly helpful and we will continue to work with you as this operation moves into the next phase.
“This has been a complex and challenging missing person investigation and we will continue to explore all new leads. What we have clearly established is the last known contact made with Jayran was just after 10pm on Wednesday, March 22.”
Police are particularly keen to speak to anyone with information about Jayran’s black North Face jacket which was discovered on a gate in Northampton Road, next to The Watermeadows, on April 1. Officers believe the coat might have been found elsewhere before being placed on the gate and want to speak to the person who moved it.
Watermeadows in Towcester, where police searched the River Tove after Jayran's jacket was found nearby.
There has been some speculation that the police seem prepared to devote resources to those cases that attract public interest. I couldnt say that this is true, but it did seem to be the case in regard to Nicola Bulley. I dont believe that the effort that went into her case was a standard response. Nor am I sure what the standard response is. I am not even sure that you would get more more officers than the Golliwog Squad attending in the case of a missing person.
I have been critical of the police, and stand by this criticism. Although, I am not sure how the police should deal with 170,000 missing people per year.
Charity Missing People says “someone is reported missing every 90 seconds in the UK “, adding that “170,000 people are reported missing every year”. It says that there are 353,000 reported missing incidents every year, of which more than 137,000 are adults and nearly 215,000 are children. How many people go missing in the UK every year? Britain’s missing … inews.co.uk/news/how-many-people-missing-uk-every-year-britain-person-statistics-explained-2153247 inews.co.uk/news/how-many-people-missing-uk-every-year-britain-person-st
"There has been some speculation that the police seem prepared to devote resources to those cases that attract public interest."
The Madeline McCann story is a case in point.
I do understand how devastating it is when parents lose a child, but in the McCann case, the Police are still devoting time & resources to it. It's coming up to 16 years since she disappeared, & there has to come a time when the file is closed.
Meanwhile, when house burglaries & anti-social behaviour goes off, it's a struggle to even get the Constabulary to attend.
"There has been some speculation that the police seem prepared to devote resources to those cases that attract public interest."
The Madeline McCann story is a case in point.
I do understand how devastating it is when parents lose a child, but in the McCann case, the Police are still devoting time & resources to it. It's coming up to 16 years since she disappeared, & there has to come a time when the file is closed.
Meanwhile, when house burglaries & anti-social behaviour goes off, it's a struggle to even get the Constabulary to attend.
I would agree. They seem unable to identify priorities. Also this case will do nothing to convince the public that they are ever likely to receive even handed treatment from the police.
It is bound to be the case that the Police will devote more resources to cases where there is more public interest.
People cannot have it both ways. We either trust the police to deal with crime. Or we do not. But people need to recognise that, if we allow the Press to indulge in police witch hunts, that is going to impact upon allocation of resources.
Simply because the Police do not exist in a vacuum. They answer to Senior Officers, to Police and Crime Commissioners, and to the massive expense involved with public scrutiny. That is inevitably going to result in resources being reallocated to avoid having to spend millions on public scrutiny.
Madeline McCann is a prime example. 1 or more crimes may, or may not, have taken place in Portugal. The Portuguese police carried out an investigation. Which was not liked by her parents. And not liked by the English media. Add in the fact that poor Madeline was photogenic, her Parents were considerably more effective in garnering media attention than staying in and not leaving their children while going out, and there was some newsworthy stuff about shadowy foreigners and possible paedophilia.
Result? Millions diverted to a possible Portuguese crime. Out of all proportion to similar possible crimes here.
But-what else could the UK Police do? They would have had to spend massive amounts of money and resources defending themselves if they did not act.
One final thought. If it becomes easier to sack a police officer than to sack anyone else in any other job, what impact will that have in attracting police officers of suitable quality?
That's largely fair comment, but I'm not sure I agree that the Police should worry about defending themselves against Daily Mail headlines.
Do the (very difficult) job of Policing professionally, & ignore the flak, we have emerged into a nation of finger-pointers so it has to be ignored.
PS - this summed up my view on the matter;
"her Parents were considerably more effective in garnering media attention than staying in and not leaving their children while going out"
I really wish I could agree with you about "ignoring the flak". What you say should be correct. Sadly, IMO, it is not.
Among the reasons are:-
1. We have a succession of Home Secretaries who clearly believe that they personally benefit by sniping at the Police. The Braverman/golly bit just being the latest example. How would she feel if the Met Commissioner said that 650 MPs is way too many, that there are far too many SPADs etc? 2. Public Trust in the Police is vital for so many reasons. To give 2 quick examples, if rape victims think it is better not to go to the Police, and Afro-Caribbeans feel unable to join the Police, we have major problems 3. Data Protection Subject Access requests. Newspapers in particular force the Police to spend a fortune answering these on their regular fishing expeditions
I am not suggesting that the Police should be free to police themselves. But we have gone too far the other way.
It is bound to be the case that the Police will devote more resources to cases where there is more public interest.
I am not sure why this is the case. Particularly as you say in the next sentence that we should trust the police with crime. What message does it send to the families and loved ones of those less fortunate from minorities, or those that have created less public interest? Isnt it really important for the police to be seen as unbiased and fair?
People cannot have it both ways. We either trust the police to deal with crime. Or we do not. But people need to recognise that, if we allow the Press to indulge in police witch hunts, that is going to impact upon allocation of resources.
I think that you are very optimistic saying that police deal with crime. There seem to be more and more crime that they refuse to investigate. Your optimism seems to extend to the ignoring of any recent reports.
Simply because the Police do not exist in a vacuum. They answer to Senior Officers, to Police and Crime Commissioners, and to the massive expense involved with public scrutiny. That is inevitably going to result in resources being reallocated to avoid having to spend millions on public scrutiny.
Maybe if they acted more professionally, they wouldnt come in for so much criticism?
Madeline McCann is a prime example. 1 or more crimes may, or may not, have taken place in Portugal. The Portuguese police carried out an investigation. Which was not liked by her parents. And not liked by the English media. Add in the fact that poor Madeline was photogenic, her Parents were considerably more effective in garnering media attention than staying in and not leaving their children while going out, and there was some newsworthy stuff about shadowy foreigners and possible paedophilia.
This case was an exception.
Result? Millions diverted to a possible Portuguese crime. Out of all proportion to similar possible crimes here.
But-what else could the UK Police do? They would have had to spend massive amounts of money and resources defending themselves if they did not act.
So they arent in control.
One final thought. If it becomes easier to sack a police officer than to sack anyone else in any other job, what impact will that have in attracting police officers of suitable quality?
It is apparently very difficult if not impossible to sack a police officer as recent experience has shown. They clearly cover up for each other when beating their wives up, and committing sexual assaults. This is clearly not the case with all police officers, but enough of them to make it a big worry.
What ah find strange is why some missing person cases seem to be more important than others, there was a young man from ma hometown went missing when he got off a train in Paisley. He sent a text sayin something wasn't right on the train so he got off went missing and they found his body 2 weeks later in a river. You here about people goin missing daily but some get headlines all over the papers, others just seem to fade away and you don't hear anything.
What ah find strange is why some missing person cases seem to be more important than others, there was a young man from ma hometown went missing when he got off a train in Paisley. He sent a text sayin something wasn't right on the train so he got off went missing and they found his body 2 weeks later in a river. You here about people goin missing daily but some get headlines all over the papers, others just seem to fade away and you don't hear anything.
Nicola Bulley police divers 'are looking for specific missing object in river where mother died', claims forensic pathologist
Nicola Bulley police divers 'looking for specific missing item in river' claims forensic Police (main image) investigating Nicola Bulley's (inset) death are reportedly looking for a 'specific' item that is missing from where she died, a forensic pathologist has claimed. Specialist police diving crews were filmed in the River Wyre in Lancashire on Tuesday, April 4 less than a mile from the bank where Nicola disappeared on January 27, sparking a huge 23-day manhunt. The mother-of-two, 45, went missing after walking her dog near the river in St Michael's on Wyre.
Comments
The Independent Office for Police Conduct says it is probing a visit made by an officer to the family home as part of a welfare check on January 10 - 17 days before the mother's disappearance. The mother of two, 45, was found by members of the public in the reeds of the River Wyre in Lancashire on Sunday - a mile from the bench where her mobile phone had been recovered 23 days earlier. The investigations follow intense criticism of Lancashire Police over its handling of the case.
The investigations follow intense criticism of Lancashire Police over its handling of the case.
'I am sure there will be lessons to be learned for Lancashire Constabulary,
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11779991/Nicola-Bulley-identified-dental-records-inquest-hears.html
https://video.dailymail.co.uk/preview/mol/2023/02/24/2120396681308188685/964x580_MP4_2120396681308188685.mp4
The video opens with a man, Curtis Arnold (left), walking along a country road. He is breathing heavily and filming as he goes. You never see his face. In the distance, a police officer comes into view and begins walking towards him, waving his arms. The area is being sealed off and the anonymous figure behind the camera (we now know it was fastened in a harness around his neck) is asked to turn back. 'I came through a minute ago,' he explains, pointing in the direction of where he means, adding: 'My car is [over] there.' The officer believes him and lets him through. Once out of sight, the cameraman creeps into a field next to the River Wyre, in Lancashire, and crouches down to secretly record what is happening on the opposite side, where a drone is hovering overhead and police are pulling a potentially tragic discovery from the reeds.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11790883/Unmasked-TikTok-ghoul-covertly-filmed-Nicola-Bulleys-body-lifted-river.html
Peter Faulding's Specialist Group International (SGI) has assisted in several high profile investigations and joined the search for the missing mother for three days.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11791411/Specialist-divers-failed-Nicola-Bulley-removed-National-Crime-Agency-expert-list.html
A good decision I'd say. They guy was full of himself & running his mouth non-stop in a situation where a little decorum was necessary.
Peter Faulding's Specialist Group International (SGI) has assisted in several high profile investigations and joined the search for the missing mother for three days before he sensationally guaranteed she was 'not in that section of the river'
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/nicola-bulley-police-divers-return-111350730.html
The parents of a missing man have appealed for him to return home after a three-day search of a river ended.
Northamptonshire Police said Jayran, from Towcester, was last seen by his family at about 18:00 GMT on 21 March.
The force said it concluded an underwater search of a section of the River Tove in the town on Sunday.
Pleading for his return, the 20-year-old's parents said there was "an Easter egg with your name on it waiting at home".
A police representative said officers were "continuing to explore new leads" and had established that the last known contact with Jayran was made just after 22:00 GMT on 22 March.
They said officers spent the Easter weekend speaking to people in Towcester, distributing leaflets and posters and trying to gather more information.
Det Chief Insp Johnny Campbell said while the underwater search phase of the operation had finished, "we are continuing our efforts to understand his movements up to the time of his disappearance and ultimately to find him".
The representative said officers were particularly keen to speak to anyone with information about Jayran's black The North Face jacket, which was found left on a gate on Northampton Road, next to The Watermeadows, on 1 April.
They said it was believed the coat was discovered elsewhere and officers want to speak to the person who moved it.
https://www.northantslive.news/news/northamptonshire-news/towcester-river-search-missing-man-8337828
Northamptonshire Police have concluded an underwater river search to find missing 20-year-old Towcester man. Specialist underwater search teams have spent the past few days searching a section of the River Tove, near Towcester for the man, who has only been named as Jayran.
The search was part of the overall investigation to find Jayran, who was last seen by his family at about 6pm on Tuesday, March 21. Divers first entered the River Tove last Friday, April 7.
Neighbourhood Chief Inspector Pete Basham said: “The underwater search phase of this section of the River Tove has now concluded . I would like to thank police colleagues from other parts of the country who were able to provide this specialist support to Northamptonshire Police.
“I also want to thank the local community for their help during the past few days, not least those who we engaged with at the Towcester Park Run on Saturday morning. The community’s assistance both in terms of engaging with officers and sharing messages on social media has been incredibly helpful and we will continue to work with you as this operation moves into the next phase.
“This has been a complex and challenging missing person investigation and we will continue to explore all new leads. What we have clearly established is the last known contact made with Jayran was just after 10pm on Wednesday, March 22.”
Police are particularly keen to speak to anyone with information about Jayran’s black North Face jacket which was discovered on a gate in Northampton Road, next to The Watermeadows, on April 1. Officers believe the coat might have been found elsewhere before being placed on the gate and want to speak to the person who moved it.
Watermeadows in Towcester, where police searched the River Tove after Jayran's jacket was found nearby.
I couldnt say that this is true, but it did seem to be the case in regard to Nicola Bulley.
I dont believe that the effort that went into her case was a standard response.
Nor am I sure what the standard response is.
I am not even sure that you would get more more officers than the Golliwog Squad attending in the case of a missing person.
I have been critical of the police, and stand by this criticism.
Although, I am not sure how the police should deal with 170,000 missing people per year.
Charity Missing People says “someone is reported missing every 90 seconds in the UK “, adding that “170,000 people are reported missing every year”. It says that there are 353,000 reported missing incidents every year, of which more than 137,000 are adults and nearly 215,000 are children.
How many people go missing in the UK every year? Britain’s missing …
inews.co.uk/news/how-many-people-missing-uk-every-year-britain-person-statistics-explained-2153247
inews.co.uk/news/how-many-people-missing-uk-every-year-britain-person-st
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-65238743
@HAYSIE
"There has been some speculation that the police seem prepared to devote resources to those cases that attract public interest."
The Madeline McCann story is a case in point.
I do understand how devastating it is when parents lose a child, but in the McCann case, the Police are still devoting time & resources to it. It's coming up to 16 years since she disappeared, & there has to come a time when the file is closed.
Meanwhile, when house burglaries & anti-social behaviour goes off, it's a struggle to even get the Constabulary to attend.
They seem unable to identify priorities.
Also this case will do nothing to convince the public that they are ever likely to receive even handed treatment from the police.
People cannot have it both ways. We either trust the police to deal with crime. Or we do not. But people need to recognise that, if we allow the Press to indulge in police witch hunts, that is going to impact upon allocation of resources.
Simply because the Police do not exist in a vacuum. They answer to Senior Officers, to Police and Crime Commissioners, and to the massive expense involved with public scrutiny. That is inevitably going to result in resources being reallocated to avoid having to spend millions on public scrutiny.
Madeline McCann is a prime example. 1 or more crimes may, or may not, have taken place in Portugal. The Portuguese police carried out an investigation. Which was not liked by her parents. And not liked by the English media. Add in the fact that poor Madeline was photogenic, her Parents were considerably more effective in garnering media attention than staying in and not leaving their children while going out, and there was some newsworthy stuff about shadowy foreigners and possible paedophilia.
Result? Millions diverted to a possible Portuguese crime. Out of all proportion to similar possible crimes here.
But-what else could the UK Police do? They would have had to spend massive amounts of money and resources defending themselves if they did not act.
One final thought. If it becomes easier to sack a police officer than to sack anyone else in any other job, what impact will that have in attracting police officers of suitable quality?
@Essexphil
That's largely fair comment, but I'm not sure I agree that the Police should worry about defending themselves against Daily Mail headlines.
Do the (very difficult) job of Policing professionally, & ignore the flak, we have emerged into a nation of finger-pointers so it has to be ignored.
PS - this summed up my view on the matter;
"her Parents were considerably more effective in garnering media attention than staying in and not leaving their children while going out"
Among the reasons are:-
1. We have a succession of Home Secretaries who clearly believe that they personally benefit by sniping at the Police. The Braverman/golly bit just being the latest example. How would she feel if the Met Commissioner said that 650 MPs is way too many, that there are far too many SPADs etc?
2. Public Trust in the Police is vital for so many reasons. To give 2 quick examples, if rape victims think it is better not to go to the Police, and Afro-Caribbeans feel unable to join the Police, we have major problems
3. Data Protection Subject Access requests. Newspapers in particular force the Police to spend a fortune answering these on their regular fishing expeditions
I am not suggesting that the Police should be free to police themselves. But we have gone too far the other way.
They clearly cover up for each other when beating their wives up, and committing sexual assaults.
This is clearly not the case with all police officers, but enough of them to make it a big worry.
It just seems to be a pointless exercise to take action to avoid getting it in the neck, when you are getting it in the neck anyway.
He sent a text sayin something wasn't right on the train so he got off went missing and they found his body 2 weeks later in a river.
You here about people goin missing daily but some get headlines all over the papers, others just seem to fade away and you don't hear anything.
Nicola Bulley police divers 'looking for specific missing item in river' claims forensic
Police (main image) investigating Nicola Bulley's (inset) death are reportedly looking for a 'specific' item that is missing from where she died, a forensic pathologist has claimed. Specialist police diving crews were filmed in the River Wyre in Lancashire on Tuesday, April 4 less than a mile from the bank where Nicola disappeared on January 27, sparking a huge 23-day manhunt. The mother-of-two, 45, went missing after walking her dog near the river in St Michael's on Wyre.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11966861/Nicola-Bulley-police-divers-looking-specific-missing-item-river-claims-forensic-pathologist.html