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Keir Starmer’s popularity sinks in Red Wall

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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,978
    edited May 2023
    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
    Essexphil said:

    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.

    Do you think the electorate will judge The Tories on the progress Sunak makes on his 5 goals?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
    Essexphil said:

    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.

    The second article was a better one for Labour.
    According to the "experts", to get an overall majority, they will have to win some seats in Scotland.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,978
    edited May 2023
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.

    The second article was a better one for Labour.
    According to the "experts", to get an overall majority, they will have to win some seats in Scotland.
    Labour are bound to win seats in Scotland. For a variety of reasons.

    Their pathetic current base; the acceptance that another independence vote is not imminent; the troubles within the SNP; and an overwhelming desire to oust the Tories from Government. However, I still believe that the SNP will win more seats than Labour, and the gains might be more like 10-20. We will see.

    The other key battleground may well be London. Where it is more a question of which seats will go to Labour, and which the Lib Dums.

    The Tories are facing massive losses in London, as well as the "Red Wall". In 1 sense, whether Scottish seats are Labour or SNP is irrelevant-despite all the public sniping, the SNP and Labour have equal contempt for the Tories.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.

    The second article was a better one for Labour.
    According to the "experts", to get an overall majority, they will have to win some seats in Scotland.
    Labour are bound to win seats in Scotland. For a variety of reasons.

    Their pathetic current base; the acceptance that another independence vote is not imminent; the troubles within the SNP; and an overwhelming desire to oust the Tories from Government. However, I still believe that the SNP will win more seats than Labour, and the gains might be more like 10-20. We will see.

    The other key battleground may well be London. Where it is more a question of which seats will go to Labour, and which the Lib Dums.

    The Tories are facing massive losses in London, as well as the "Red Wall". In 1 sense, whether Scottish seats are Labour or SNP is irrelevant-despite all the public sniping, the SNP and Labour have equal contempt for the Tories.
    Do you think Labour will get an overall majority?
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,978
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.

    The second article was a better one for Labour.
    According to the "experts", to get an overall majority, they will have to win some seats in Scotland.
    Labour are bound to win seats in Scotland. For a variety of reasons.

    Their pathetic current base; the acceptance that another independence vote is not imminent; the troubles within the SNP; and an overwhelming desire to oust the Tories from Government. However, I still believe that the SNP will win more seats than Labour, and the gains might be more like 10-20. We will see.

    The other key battleground may well be London. Where it is more a question of which seats will go to Labour, and which the Lib Dums.

    The Tories are facing massive losses in London, as well as the "Red Wall". In 1 sense, whether Scottish seats are Labour or SNP is irrelevant-despite all the public sniping, the SNP and Labour have equal contempt for the Tories.
    Do you think Labour will get an overall majority?
    Too early to say.

    My guess would be yes, probably. But only a small one.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.

    The second article was a better one for Labour.
    According to the "experts", to get an overall majority, they will have to win some seats in Scotland.
    Labour are bound to win seats in Scotland. For a variety of reasons.

    Their pathetic current base; the acceptance that another independence vote is not imminent; the troubles within the SNP; and an overwhelming desire to oust the Tories from Government. However, I still believe that the SNP will win more seats than Labour, and the gains might be more like 10-20. We will see.

    The other key battleground may well be London. Where it is more a question of which seats will go to Labour, and which the Lib Dums.

    The Tories are facing massive losses in London, as well as the "Red Wall". In 1 sense, whether Scottish seats are Labour or SNP is irrelevant-despite all the public sniping, the SNP and Labour have equal contempt for the Tories.
    Do you think Labour will get an overall majority?
    Too early to say.

    My guess would be yes, probably. But only a small one.
    I suppose Sunak will either look really clever or really stupid, by the time we get to the election, which will apparently be in October next year.
    I think the gap in the polls will narrow if he does well with his 5 promises, but not if he doesnt.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,978
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.

    The second article was a better one for Labour.
    According to the "experts", to get an overall majority, they will have to win some seats in Scotland.
    Labour are bound to win seats in Scotland. For a variety of reasons.

    Their pathetic current base; the acceptance that another independence vote is not imminent; the troubles within the SNP; and an overwhelming desire to oust the Tories from Government. However, I still believe that the SNP will win more seats than Labour, and the gains might be more like 10-20. We will see.

    The other key battleground may well be London. Where it is more a question of which seats will go to Labour, and which the Lib Dums.

    The Tories are facing massive losses in London, as well as the "Red Wall". In 1 sense, whether Scottish seats are Labour or SNP is irrelevant-despite all the public sniping, the SNP and Labour have equal contempt for the Tories.
    Do you think Labour will get an overall majority?
    Too early to say.

    My guess would be yes, probably. But only a small one.
    I suppose Sunak will either look really clever or really stupid, by the time we get to the election, which will apparently be in October next year.
    I think the gap in the polls will narrow if he does well with his 5 promises, but not if he doesnt.
    The "5 promises" is a massive con trick.

    So-for example-"halving inflation". Inflation in 2019 was 2.5% a year.
    Since the last election, the average inflation has been 6.34%, increasing to about 11% when Rishi made his "promise".

    Headline inflation rates only use the last 12 months. So the comparator will be purely comparing up to 12 months ago, with 12-24 months ago. Completely ignoring anything before then.

    So-2.5% when took office, 11% when makes promise, "halves" inflation when it is 5.5% at next election.

    Ignoring 2 vital factors:-

    1. The massive impact caused by past inflation;
    2. That inflation will still be more than double that of the last election.

    Rishi Sunak is not the person who decides whether he has done a good job. That is for the electorate to decide.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    It is precisely this sort of biased reporting that makes people turn away from the "news".

    If you read the Headline, you would think they are struggling. Labour. Currently. Have. A. 12%. Lead.

    That 30% share would lead to a terrible result for the Tories. Down nearly 14% from the last election. And a large Labour Majority. I'm not saying that will happen-what I am saying is that it is terrible news reporting to pretend that the Tories have turned anything round. They have not. At best, they have managed to stop the previous freefall.

    The polls are far worse than the Local Election results for the Tories. And no amount of newspaper fact juggling is going to truthfully say otherwise.

    Because currently the Labour/Conservative votes are similar to the 2019 Election. Except the Parties have reversed-instead of the Tories having a 11.4% lead, it is now Labour.

    The second article was a better one for Labour.
    According to the "experts", to get an overall majority, they will have to win some seats in Scotland.
    Labour are bound to win seats in Scotland. For a variety of reasons.

    Their pathetic current base; the acceptance that another independence vote is not imminent; the troubles within the SNP; and an overwhelming desire to oust the Tories from Government. However, I still believe that the SNP will win more seats than Labour, and the gains might be more like 10-20. We will see.

    The other key battleground may well be London. Where it is more a question of which seats will go to Labour, and which the Lib Dums.

    The Tories are facing massive losses in London, as well as the "Red Wall". In 1 sense, whether Scottish seats are Labour or SNP is irrelevant-despite all the public sniping, the SNP and Labour have equal contempt for the Tories.
    Do you think Labour will get an overall majority?
    Too early to say.

    My guess would be yes, probably. But only a small one.
    I suppose Sunak will either look really clever or really stupid, by the time we get to the election, which will apparently be in October next year.
    I think the gap in the polls will narrow if he does well with his 5 promises, but not if he doesnt.
    The "5 promises" is a massive con trick.

    So-for example-"halving inflation". Inflation in 2019 was 2.5% a year.
    Since the last election, the average inflation has been 6.34%, increasing to about 11% when Rishi made his "promise".

    Headline inflation rates only use the last 12 months. So the comparator will be purely comparing up to 12 months ago, with 12-24 months ago. Completely ignoring anything before then.

    So-2.5% when took office, 11% when makes promise, "halves" inflation when it is 5.5% at next election.

    Ignoring 2 vital factors:-

    1. The massive impact caused by past inflation;
    2. That inflation will still be more than double that of the last election.

    Rishi Sunak is not the person who decides whether he has done a good job. That is for the electorate to decide.
    I can see that, but it is still a difficult task.
    The pledge was to halve inflation this year, so still a long way to go.
    Stopping the boats wont be easy.
    Growing the economy maybe easier considering its current state.
    I dont know much about the national debt.
    Although I am certain that the vast majority of the public would prefer a tax cut.
    It will probably be quite easy to reduce NHS waiting lists before the election considering where they are now, but the key will be, by how much they are reduced.


  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 1,477
    Before I say this I will make clear predicting what I think will happen is not stating what I want to happen. Often predictions can be what I do not want to happen and In this case that is what this is.

    I think the tories will win the next election, and when they do things will get really really bad for everyone but the rich because if they can get away with everything so far and still manipulate their way to a win they have an open road to do whatever they want.

    My plan is to leave the country once they win the next election because the party who win the election after the next election wont be tory or labour they will be far right.

    I tick multiple boxes for what the far right hate it would be stupid for me to stay and wait for them to get in.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
    Doubleme said:

    Before I say this I will make clear predicting what I think will happen is not stating what I want to happen. Often predictions can be what I do not want to happen and In this case that is what this is.

    I think the tories will win the next election, and when they do things will get really really bad for everyone but the rich because if they can get away with everything so far and still manipulate their way to a win they have an open road to do whatever they want.

    My plan is to leave the country once they win the next election because the party who win the election after the next election wont be tory or labour they will be far right.

    I tick multiple boxes for what the far right hate it would be stupid for me to stay and wait for them to get in.

    Which far right party?
    You dont have a good record on your predictions, as we are all still able to deposit, gamble, and we havent been nuclear bombed.
    So I expect we will be ok.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,978
    HAYSIE said:


    Robert Jenrick. Nothing more than a polished 30p Lee. Educated beyond his intelligence.

    Universities are in the business of making money. They do not decide who is allowed to come in-that is the job of the Govt and the Home Office. They do not decide who is entitled to come with them. Again, that is the job of the Govt and the Home Office. Finally, Universities have absolutely no say on who stays in the UK at the end of their courses. Again, that is the preserve of the Govt and the Home Office.

    Yet again, on immigration, this Govt flails around blaming everyone else for their own failure to do their job.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 31,780
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:


    Robert Jenrick. Nothing more than a polished 30p Lee. Educated beyond his intelligence.

    Universities are in the business of making money. They do not decide who is allowed to come in-that is the job of the Govt and the Home Office. They do not decide who is entitled to come with them. Again, that is the job of the Govt and the Home Office. Finally, Universities have absolutely no say on who stays in the UK at the end of their courses. Again, that is the preserve of the Govt and the Home Office.

    Yet again, on immigration, this Govt flails around blaming everyone else for their own failure to do their job.
    They provide Unis with about 42 billion of income, and also spend money in the economy.
    Although as I said on the other thread their dependants is are an issue.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 7,978
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:


    Robert Jenrick. Nothing more than a polished 30p Lee. Educated beyond his intelligence.

    Universities are in the business of making money. They do not decide who is allowed to come in-that is the job of the Govt and the Home Office. They do not decide who is entitled to come with them. Again, that is the job of the Govt and the Home Office. Finally, Universities have absolutely no say on who stays in the UK at the end of their courses. Again, that is the preserve of the Govt and the Home Office.

    Yet again, on immigration, this Govt flails around blaming everyone else for their own failure to do their job.
    They provide Unis with about 42 billion of income, and also spend money in the economy.
    Although as I said on the other thread their dependants is are an issue.
    Our Universities are unlike Universities anywhere else in the World.

    They are privately-owned (unlike the rest of the World, where Unis are almost always owned by country or State).

    They almost all have Charitable status. Which means they do not contribute to the Economy in the same way as other businesses.

    They have the best of all worlds. Privately-owned, charitable status, massive public funding. Yet they get to keep their profits, and also keep their profits secret. Because over the last 30 years Universities have totally changed, both in number and income.

    A typical large University has 20,000 undergraduates and 10,000 postgraduates.

    Those 20,000 undergrads. Take an average of, say, £10,000 p.a (£9k-odd for UK, more for foreign students). That is £200 million a year in fees. Most of which is funded by the taxpayer. Before we get to the complex funding arrangements for various postgrads.
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