As has been said by others, context is everything here.
The simple answer is that, unless you have very clear evidence otherwise, it is a clear fold. By a wide margin.
But there are 2 things to consider here. Firstly, and more importantly, that the shover often does this with any 2. It can then be a race as to who gets his chips. And secondly, that this is a satellite. Which (on Sky) normally means 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 get a seat. And everyone else gets nothing. Which means that flipping is more attractive than in other MTTs.
Me? I'm still folding. Not because of the shove-because of the original raiser. Who is likely to have me crushed if he calls. But I can see an argument for calling.
In the original hand, ignoring the Call, which as has been noted requires some context, I'm more intrigued why anyone would jam almost 50 Bigs with any hand when there's only 200 or so in the middle. I guess the game has changed...
Good point, but would you have called?
Well I'd need better context to make that decision, but in a vacuum (that's what the kiddywinkles always say) I'd say almost certainly not, as in I'm 99.5% certain I'd fold A-J there.
As has been said by others, context is everything here.
The simple answer is that, unless you have very clear evidence otherwise, it is a clear fold. By a wide margin.
But there are 2 things to consider here. Firstly, and more importantly, that the shover often does this with any 2. It can then be a race as to who gets his chips. And secondly, that this is a satellite. Which (on Sky) normally means 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 get a seat. And everyone else gets nothing. Which means that flipping is more attractive than in other MTTs.
Me? I'm still folding. Not because of the shove-because of the original raiser. Who is likely to have me crushed if he calls. But I can see an argument for calling.
Misty and I were arguing back and fore about this before I posted it. I like to learn from discussions, as most of us do. The context is surely that the UTG raises 3 bigs. The next guy shoves. The AJo guy calls, with 3 guys sitting behind him plus the UTG raiser. I appreciate that you would fold, but what would your argument be for calling 50 bigs, in the early stages, for practically your whole stack. When folding costs you nothing, and keeps your powder dry, and your stack intact.
I have occasionally seen people shoving in this spot with a monster, looking for a double up, which they sometimes get.
Despite having DUp off me, the Player was the next one KO'd following me, which pretty much ' says it all '
Does it say it all? If he was a complete lunatic, and lost 4,000 chips, while you were hanging on with your 395, doesnt that emphasise that a fold, and finding a better spot might have enabled you to benefit from these 4,000 chips being sprayed about?
The game is changing. And we all adapt to those changes,
As an example, I have always been perceived as tight-aggressive. Probably am. But if I played like I do now in 2006, I would have been tagged as the loosest player in the table. Things that were a fold 10 years ago, are not now.
It's a satellite. You have to be willing to get it in in marginal spots at some stage. Because an early double up makes a satellite a lot easier. Plus, as I said, there are sometimes players who are going to lose their chips to someone, anyone-and I would like it to be me.
If it is 1 v 1, with the info @MISTY4ME had, I think it is a call. Whereas, without that info, it is a snap fold.
The game is changing. And we all adapt to those changes,
As an example, I have always been perceived as tight-aggressive. Probably am. But if I played like I do now in 2006, I would have been tagged as the loosest player in the table. Things that were a fold 10 years ago, are not now.
It's a satellite. You have to be willing to get it in in marginal spots at some stage. Because an early double up makes a satellite a lot easier. Plus, as I said, there are sometimes players who are going to lose their chips to someone, anyone-and I would like it to be me.
If it is 1 v 1, with the info @MISTY4ME had, I think it is a call. Whereas, without that info, it is a snap fold.
Even if the shover is a lunatic, and even lunatics get the odd good hand, what about the three sitting behind you and the UTG raiser?
The game is changing. And we all adapt to those changes,
As an example, I have always been perceived as tight-aggressive. Probably am. But if I played like I do now in 2006, I would have been tagged as the loosest player in the table. Things that were a fold 10 years ago, are not now.
It's a satellite. You have to be willing to get it in in marginal spots at some stage. Because an early double up makes a satellite a lot easier. Plus, as I said, there are sometimes players who are going to lose their chips to someone, anyone-and I would like it to be me.
If it is 1 v 1, with the info @MISTY4ME had, I think it is a call. Whereas, without that info, it is a snap fold.
Even if the shover is a lunatic, and even lunatics get the odd good hand, what about the three sitting behind you and the UTG raiser?
...there are 2 things to consider here. Firstly, and more importantly, that the shover often does this with any 2. It can then be a race as to who gets his chips. And secondly, that this is a satellite. Which (on Sky) normally means 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 get a seat. And everyone else gets nothing. Which means that flipping is more attractive than in other MTTs.
As it's 5 handed there are only two ranges behind (two players left to act). The read on the 3 bet shover seems to be solid and reliable. As it's not a bounty hunter the 3x opener (covering both players) is really not incentivised to call it off 3 ways and has to start folding hands much stronger than AJo. All things considered it's starting to look like a reasonable spot to gamble for a 100bb stack vs a range we believe we often dominate and also forcing both the blinds and the opener to have to fold real hands.
You're all ignoring one of the main factors here?...it's @MISTY4ME !
I've never seen Jez make this type of call before specially with players behind ? He's normally such a wuss in this spot, so @MISTY4ME , why so brave this time? ๐ค๐
You're all ignoring one of the main factors here?...it's @MISTY4ME !
I've never seen Jez make this type of call before specially with players behind ? He's normally such a wuss in this spot, so @MISTY4ME , why so brave this time? ๐ค๐
..... because of the player that it is ....... he is very loose it seems to me, with an ALL or NOTHING attitude in Sat's .....and for me, yes it is a case of getting his chips before others do.
You're all ignoring one of the main factors here?...it's @MISTY4ME !
I've never seen Jez make this type of call before specially with players behind ? He's normally such a wuss in this spot, so @MISTY4ME , why so brave this time? ๐ค๐
..... because of the player that it is ....... he is very loose it seems to me, with an ALL or NOTHING attitude in Sat's .....and for me, yes it is a case of getting his chips before others do.
You're all ignoring one of the main factors here?...it's @MISTY4ME !
I've never seen Jez make this type of call before specially with players behind ? He's normally such a wuss in this spot, so @MISTY4ME , why so brave this time? ๐ค๐
..... because of the player that it is ....... he is very loose it seems to me, with an ALL or NOTHING attitude in Sat's .....and for me, yes it is a case of getting his chips before others do.
Ooooops.
..... as you keep telling me..... ' You CAN'T win EVERY hand ! '
You're all ignoring one of the main factors here?...it's @MISTY4ME !
I've never seen Jez make this type of call before specially with players behind ? He's normally such a wuss in this spot, so @MISTY4ME , why so brave this time? ๐ค๐
..... because of the player that it is ....... he is very loose it seems to me, with an ALL or NOTHING attitude in Sat's .....and for me, yes it is a case of getting his chips before others do.
terrible call IMO
Snap fold.
I can't see how this is a winning call in these positions in a satty.
You're all ignoring one of the main factors here?...it's @MISTY4ME !
I've never seen Jez make this type of call before specially with players behind ? He's normally such a wuss in this spot, so @MISTY4ME , why so brave this time? ๐ค๐
..... because of the player that it is ....... he is very loose it seems to me, with an ALL or NOTHING attitude in Sat's .....and for me, yes it is a case of getting his chips before others do.
terrible call IMO
Snap fold.
I can't see how this is a winning call in these positions in a satty.
I'm 99.5% certain I'd fold A-J there.
Well yes, 100%.
it is a clear fold. By a wide margin.
I think you're cutting your Cloth (posts) to suit your point..... which I could do with the later posts......
You sit in the 'OLD YOGHURTS' Corner ....and in this Case, I'll sit at the Bar having a Beer..... knowing that I will DUp in a sat. off this player more often than not
You're all ignoring one of the main factors here?...it's @MISTY4ME !
I've never seen Jez make this type of call before specially with players behind ? He's normally such a wuss in this spot, so @MISTY4ME , why so brave this time? ๐ค๐
..... because of the player that it is ....... he is very loose it seems to me, with an ALL or NOTHING attitude in Sat's .....and for me, yes it is a case of getting his chips before others do.
terrible call IMO
Snap fold.
I can't see how this is a winning call in these positions in a satty.
I'm 99.5% certain I'd fold A-J there.
Well yes, 100%.
it is a clear fold. By a wide margin.
I think you're cutting your Cloth (posts) to suit your point..... which I could do with the later posts......
You sit in the 'OLD YOGHURTS' Corner ....and in this Case, I'll sit at the Bar having a Beer..... knowing that I will DUp in a sat. off this player more often than not
How is that going? You might end up an alky at this rate.
Comments
The simple answer is that, unless you have very clear evidence otherwise, it is a clear fold. By a wide margin.
But there are 2 things to consider here. Firstly, and more importantly, that the shover often does this with any 2. It can then be a race as to who gets his chips. And secondly, that this is a satellite. Which (on Sky) normally means 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 get a seat. And everyone else gets nothing. Which means that flipping is more attractive than in other MTTs.
Me? I'm still folding. Not because of the shove-because of the original raiser. Who is likely to have me crushed if he calls. But I can see an argument for calling.
I like to learn from discussions, as most of us do.
The context is surely that the UTG raises 3 bigs.
The next guy shoves.
The AJo guy calls, with 3 guys sitting behind him plus the UTG raiser.
I appreciate that you would fold, but what would your argument be for calling 50 bigs, in the early stages, for practically your whole stack.
When folding costs you nothing, and keeps your powder dry, and your stack intact.
I have occasionally seen people shoving in this spot with a monster, looking for a double up, which they sometimes get.
Does it say it all?
If he was a complete lunatic, and lost 4,000 chips, while you were hanging on with your 395, doesnt that emphasise that a fold, and finding a better spot might have enabled you to benefit from these 4,000 chips being sprayed about?
As an example, I have always been perceived as tight-aggressive. Probably am. But if I played like I do now in 2006, I would have been tagged as the loosest player in the table. Things that were a fold 10 years ago, are not now.
It's a satellite. You have to be willing to get it in in marginal spots at some stage. Because an early double up makes a satellite a lot easier. Plus, as I said, there are sometimes players who are going to lose their chips to someone, anyone-and I would like it to be me.
If it is 1 v 1, with the info @MISTY4ME had, I think it is a call. Whereas, without that info, it is a snap fold.
"If it is 1 v 1..."
I really like this - As it's 5 handed there are only two ranges behind (two players left to act). The read on the 3 bet shover seems to be solid and reliable. As it's not a bounty hunter the 3x opener (covering both players) is really not incentivised to call it off 3 ways and has to start folding hands much stronger than AJo. All things considered it's starting to look like a reasonable spot to gamble for a 100bb stack vs a range we believe we often dominate and also forcing both the blinds and the opener to have to fold real hands.
I've never seen Jez make this type of call before specially with players behind ? He's normally such a wuss in this spot, so @MISTY4ME , why so brave this time? ๐ค๐
terrible call IMO
Snap fold.
I can't see how this is a winning call in these positions in a satty.
I'm 99.5% certain I'd fold A-J there.
Well yes, 100%.
it is a clear fold. By a wide margin.
You sit in the 'OLD YOGHURTS' Corner ....and in this Case, I'll sit at the Bar having a Beer..... knowing that I will DUp in a sat. off this player more often than not
You might end up an alky at this rate.