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Should trans Women be banned from womens sports?
So trump banned trans women from womens sports. I dont know what my thoughts are whether I agree or disagree but thought I would see what the communities thoughts are.
Should trans Women be banned from womens sports? 3 votes
Yes Trans women are not women and should never be allowed in womens spaces ever, there are only two sexes.
66%
2 votes
No person born with what is labelled as male Genetalia should be able to identify as a women and compete in womens sports and enter any womens spaces and anyone who disagress is scum
0%
there is no third option only the first two options.
33%
1 vote
Comments
basically what am i going for is the binary choice of denying trans peoples rights and existence or saying that any man anywhere can identify as a women and compete in womens sports and enter all womens spaces.
no middle ground only a choice between those two options.
Your comments are breaking the law.
Transgender people are considered a protected characteristic under the law in the Equality Act, meaning it is illegal to discriminate against someone based on their transgender status.
I also think that if we wanted to argue dicrimation against protected characteristics under equality act etc, I am not Jewish by faith. i never chose to be born Jewish, due to the fact that it is very hard to convert to Judaism if your not born into a Jewish family, Jews are actually an ethnicity which is inherited charecteristics.
I do not believe in the Judaic faith and I do eat pork, meat with cheese and do not require my girlfriend to shave her head before relations through a hole in the sheet. Nothing about my Jewish Ethnicity is chosen or followed but there are visible physical inherited charecteristics that those who hate us can physically recognise in me.
Goodness me.
"and anyone who disagress is scum"
A little abrasive & dramatic, isn't it David? Why so aggressive?
It's a subjective & exceptionally complex matter, folks (some of them very learned, certainly better versed in such matters than you or I) are going to have different opinions. Does not necessarily make them "scum".
My take on things has always been:-
1. Trans women should be allowed to participate in women's sports
2. Trans women should not be allowed to participate in professional women's sports
Let's use groups like blade runners (like Pistorius) or wheelchair users to show what I mean. They are not allowed to compete professionally v able-bodied athletes. Simply because, through no fault of their own, they have in-built advantages. Which would result in no able-bodied athlete being able to earn a living from Athletics.
But, seriously, who wants to prevent such people taking part in the school sports day?
If enough trans women decide to play sports, even at low levels, it would dissuade many women from playing those sports, simply because they couldn't compete with trans women/men.
That said, the less unfair anything can be the better.
https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/35574993/rugby-saved-transgender-player-julie-curtiss-fighting-rfu-ban-her
Thousands of women play Rugby. 7-yes 7-as of 2023 were Trans women. And 3-yes 3-were actively playing the sport.
Without wishing to pigeonhole people, Rugby is a very "masculine" (for want of a better word) Sport. It is far more likely to attract Trans Men than Trans Women. Read anything about the need for protections for people who are born women and playing men's sport? Of course not. Because the Press and an extreme wing of the LGBT Community is all about vilifying Trans Women.
As money flows into women's sports, people at the elite level will train harder, gain muscle mass, and injuries will result unless women's sport takes the sorts of steps that the RFU totally failed to do in the Men's game. Which is going to see the organisations who run it destroyed.
And no amount of virtue signalling is going to change that.
There is a tiny minority of people using Gender as a means to cheat and make money. They need to be stopped.
But amateur sport needs to be inclusive
Cited from the following 'propaganda' -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/62349297#:~:text=The Rugby Football League and Rugby Football Union,policy which will come into effect in August.
https://theconversation.com/world-rugbys-ban-on-trans-players-has-nothing-to-do-with-so-called-fairness-150589
It is a fact that biological females do not have the same muscle mass or strength as biological females and even weight training/conditioning will not change that.
I read the article you quoted and it changes my view not one iota, the person involved could have refound men's rugby to help their mental wellbeing and the statements in the article that there is no increase to risk seems to fly in the face of world rugby's own research.
'World Rugby says the ban is necessary for fairness. It claims, based on its own working group’s findings, that there is a 20 to 30 per cent greater risk of injury when a female player is tackled by someone who has gone through male puberty.'
I appreciate your views Phil. I disagree with them. I am not believing propaganda, I am basing my opinions on expert opinion and my own education, which was to degree level in biology.
The article was about the 7/3 that were impacted by the RFU decision.
We all have our own areas of expertise. In relation to the natural biological differences, you would know more than me. Even so, that has to be right. If we are comparing like with like. There has to be a measure of protection for Women. It is more a question of where you draw that line.
Where we differ is in relation to how far you take that. At elite level? For me, undoubtedly. In time, that elite level needs to be expanded as women's sport grows. Could you make an argument that it should extend to, say, County Under-18 level? Again, yes. To stop a 52-yr-old playing for Hove 2nds? Not for me.
My expertise is in Law. And the RFU totally failed in its duty to adapt once the men's game became professional. In 30 years, typical pack weights at elite level have gone from 800kg to 920kg. Or, in old money, more than 2 stone a man. Full-time athletes-playing under the old Amateur Rules. While the Rules and safety equipment did not change at all. And don't even start me on concussion.
Being sued from ar5ehole to breakfast by hundreds of former players. Trying to hide behind picking on 3 Trans people. If they genuinely care, they should set realistic guidelines. Not blanket bans.
My other experience relates to the Trans Community. With the greatest of respect, your "solution" for that 52 year old is downright dangerous. And I am sure that (unlike some) you are completely well-intentioned in your suggestion.
As someone said earlier the basis for all sport is fairness.
What would be wrong with having the same rules for all sports, no exceptions?
If you are born female, you qualify for female sports.
If you are born male, you qualify for male sports.
Any exceptions are considered male.
This would probably be considered unfair by a very small minority.
The alternative is that various sporting authorities can have different rules, different tests, and interpret the results differently.
It is the differences that cause disputes.
There is absolutely no need for any exceptions.
Exceptions will be seen as unfair by many people taking part.
My opinion is based on fairness, and only that.
A Trans Man is born as a Woman. If they are undertaking a full transformation, they are given various extra equipment and (more importantly) various chemical enhancements (from a sporting point of view).
All you are achieving is disadvantaging professional female athletes due to Trans men. As opposed to Trans Women.
"Fairness" is a very subjective term. So (for example) 1 of the reasons rich countries want certain substances banned is to ensure that bigger budgets, dieticians, and coaches continue to give advantages to their athletes, rather than ones from poor countries.
A classic example is Swimming. Until recently, people genuinely believed that South Asian and Afro-Caribbean swimmers were genetically unable to compete with other nations. Turns out they lived in poor countries and poor areas in rich countries, with limited or no access to pools or coaching.
Finally, let's look closer to home. Our Athletes in a whole host of Sports are full-time, due to receiving lottery funding. Unlike nearly every other nation.
Just open up a trans olympics
Except people sometimes complicate it.
Men should not be allowed near womens sport at any level.
Why should they?
There could be no fairness if they were.
It is the exceptions that cause the disputes as in the Olympics.
If I remember rightly, the initial dispute was caused by two athletics bodies having different test/ guidelines/results, on one, or more of the exceptions.
This could be resolved by having a single rule for all exceptions, therefore no need for any testing, or any disputing of the test results.
All sport should be conducted on a level playing field.
Although it is evident that there maybe some advantages gained through race, place of birth, or build.
I am of course referring to Mexican boxers, the lack of any recent white 100m World Record Holder etc.
There is just no reason to allow anyone born a man to compete in womens sports at any level.
To eliminate the bickering you also have to disallow the exceptions.
If anyone has received chemical enhancements that improve their performance, then in the interest of fairness shouldnt they be banned from sport altogether?