Tikay how can you say this thread serves no purpose?
This is a very serious issue and reading this thread knowing it effects me directly now makes me pretty disgusted at Sky's lacklustre attempts to re assure your customers that this kind of thing is of high priority to stamp out and is taken very seriously.
The fact a reg has to post this kind of thread to get attention is very worrying to me.
As you know I originally did things through the proper channels as I realise that this is the only way to get things done. If I had started this kinda thread a week ago with XYZ is now using the account ABC avoid then it would start the wrong kind of thread.
Also there are a lot of lurkers on these forums, and I think by posting this at least some people who play casually at cash tables will be aware of this and will be on the lookout.
To be honest the guy who is multi-accounting is not doing anything to disguise it, its almost as if he wants to be found....or he is the stupidest guy in history.
And by opening a new thread, that is free of hearsay and rumour about who the individual is, then it also allows a lot of players to put in their say about the issue.
What do sky need for proof? What is there policy for looking into this sort of stuff. Do you try ringing the contact numbers right at the same time so you can hear a phone go off in the background of the other?! You could just freeze both accounts and offer each account owner a free cab fare down to the Sky Pokers office and there in person they can release their account with a few poker discussions about the way they play certain hands (both specific hand strengths [definitely not 5x utg with AJ because it's hard to play.....] and specific hh's that they should have played recently just to you know prove the two people aren't one with some random other standing in to help out. Posted by beaneh
haha ok a more simple solution would be to call up the original account, while the second account is online and playing, and ask the individual to log in a open up a table.....
if the 2nd account suddenly disappears/a log in takes place from the same IP then that is fairly fool proof.
and this guy is an extremely high profile player. even if the contact info on his account is out of date sky could get hold of him in about 5 mins.
You cant say scotty posting is a bad idea, as well as highlighting the issue to Sky and its players it serves the purpose if the accused player reads it he'll brick himself and stop playing anyway... Fair enough sky have to adopt an innocent until proven guilty approach and you cant seriously expect Sky to say what they do to investigate this sort of issue as that defeats the whole point! hopefully if player has half a clue this thread should help as interim measure for the other players affected....
In Response to Re: Failing to deal with multi-accounting... : haha ok a more simple solution would be to call up the original account, while the second account is online and playing, and ask the individual to log in a open up a table..... if the 2nd account suddenly disappears/a log in takes place from the same IP then that is fairly fool proof. and this guy is an extremely high profile player. even if the contact info on his account is out of date sky could get hold of him in about 5 mins. Posted by scotty77
Dont think this will work as your allowed to play from the same computer if you live in the same house.
In Response to Re: Failing to deal with multi-accounting... : haha ok a more simple solution would be to call up the original account, while the second account is online and playing, and ask the individual to log in a open up a table..... if the 2nd account suddenly disappears/a log in takes place from the same IP then that is fairly fool proof. and this guy is an extremely high profile player. even if the contact info on his account is out of date sky could get hold of him in about 5 mins. Posted by scotty77
I was merely trying to make a point. If he has a dongle he could log into both in the same room remember
I'd also love to know what sky classify as 'proof'.
In Response to Re: Failing to deal with multi-accounting... : Dont think this will work as your allowed to play from the same computer if you live in the same house. Posted by DeuceAK-47
You'd still know they were coming from the same place. Living in the same house as 'the other account' would just be comical. I wonder where the account is regged for depositing to because you can surely follow that route back to 'whichever name (family name/friend/relative) the account has'. Has the two accounts in question ever been seen on the same table/ever played a hand together?
Tikay how can you say this thread serves no purpose? This is a very serious issue and reading this thread knowing it effects me directly now makes me pretty disgusted at Sky's lacklustre attempts to re assure your customers that this kind of thing is of high priority to stamp out and is taken very seriously. The fact a reg has to post this kind of thread to get attention is very worrying to me. Posted by zing
I don't believe it does or has served any real purpose, & I said it because that is my firmly-held personal view, based on my experience in dispute resolution during a 35 year career, & in my ownership of other poker site(s).
Resolving a dispute by standing in the street shouting & hollering is doomed to failure, it's never yet achieved a thing except make the task harder. When I want to sort out a problem, the only people I want round the Table are those involved.
It's a huge jump from handling the matter properly & professionally, as I believe they are (though I respect your right to contest that) to saying, as you have, that this amounts to a "lack lustre attempt" by Sky Poker. I have stated the facts clearly on here. It was reported via the correct channels, to me & others. I sent it on to Head Office, at 3am in the morning as a matter of fact, & I had a reply when I got up in the morning at 9am, & they have three times written back to me subsequrntly to explain where they are with it. They have also explained that the matter is not as cut & dried as some seem to suggest. Fact, it is NOT.
I'm not sure about your last comment at all. You state.....
"....The fact a reg has to post this kind of thread to get attention is very worrying to me....."
Get attention? How does "getting attention" solve anything? It just diverts resource away from dealing with it efficiently & as quickly as is possible.
Scotty wrote to me, via PM, & I was alerted to his PM late at night, by Scotty finding me on a Table, well after midnight in fact, one night last week. So I exited my Tables (I was not "working", it was my own time), & immediately copied the info he had sent to me on to Head Office. 6 hours later - by now 9am - I had the reply from Head Office telling me what the situation was, & where they were with it. I then wrote back to Scotty before 10am the same morning. Scotty will confirm all this. How is dealing with it with such alacrity a "lack-lustre effort"?
As a matter of interest, they were already aware of the matter, & "on it", before I wrote to them.
So, the Thread has now rumbled on into 4 pages, much of it ill-informed speculation, & none of it contains a speck or iota of factual evidence. How exactly has that helped solved anything?
Hence my view. Personally, I don't think the thread solves anything, quite the opposite, I base that on the basis that I have spent my whole life in commerce untangling disputes.*
I do respect your right to feel otherwise, of course.
* One of these days I ought to tell you the story of the dispute at Chester Telephone Exchange back in the 1970's, whilst it was being constructed, when "Red Robbo" & a mate decided to stage a protest by sitting on top of a tower crane above the Building Site for a week. I resolved that, alone. (The story will be on google somewhere). I could not have resolved it by rounding up a noisy crowd & shouting at the fella.
What do sky need for proof? What is there policy for looking into this sort of stuff. Do you try ringing the contact numbers right at the same time so you can hear a phone go off in the background of the other?! You could just freeze both accounts and offer each account owner a free cab fare down to the Sky Pokers office and there in person they can release their account with a few poker discussions about the way they play certain hands (both specific hand strengths [definitely not 5x utg with AJ because it's hard to play.....] and specific hh's that they should have played recently just to you know prove the two people aren't one with some random other standing in to help out. Posted by beaneh
You cant say scotty posting is a bad idea, as well as highlighting the issue to Sky and its players it serves the purpose if the accused player reads it he'll brick himself and stop playing anyway... Fair enough sky have to adopt an innocent until proven guilty approach and you cant seriously expect Sky to say what they do to investigate this sort of issue as that defeats the whole point! hopefully if player has half a clue this thread should help as interim measure for the other players affected.... Posted by lynx3ffect
All good stuff, with one exception.
You are assuming that Sky Poker have not already - "some time since" - made contact with the Account Holders in question.
How do you know that?
Why would they NOT have spoken with he/them?
Do you really think that this far down the line, the Account Holder(s) are NOT aware that the matter is under investigation?!
There really is a disconnect if people cannot work that bit out!
But you are 100% right - Sky Poker are never going to reveal the methods thry use to sorty these things out.
What I know, & you know, is that when Members of this Community sense an injustice - like, say, some of the High-Profile Chat Bans this Comminity has seen - the martyr threads are never far behind. And for that reason alone, matters ned to be investigated & resolved with great care.
Finally, I expect to be in a whopping bowl of hot water with the Suits for replying so candidly throughout this thread, but this rush to assume guilt (without, in the most part, ANY knowledge of the facts) is fundamentally against everything I believe in. And if the boot were on the other foot, most would agree. They would.
Players expect & demand to be treated fairly. And that cuts both ways.
why isnt the guys account suspended while the investigations take place? surely that should happen? Posted by BlackFish3
So, think that one through.
I get the needle because a player busts me. So, miffed, I report him for fraud, or Multi-Accounting, & Sky Poker are supposed to snap suspend him while they investigate my malicious allegations, made simply because I have an "angle".
How long would it before everyone who busts someone gets "spite-reported" & is suspended?
This rhetorical reply does not in any way refer to the OP.
So, the Thread has now rumbled on into 4 pages, much of it ill-informed speculation, & none of it contains a speck or iota of factual evidence.
Posted by Tikay10
There's no ill informed speculation; as far as I can seem no names have been given. The forum community is being used to discuss an overall issue that is very important to everyone, that is the way the forum should be used.
In Response to Re: Failing to deal with multi-accounting... : Only because there is most likely not a set method for dealing with this. In Response to Re: Failing to deal with multi-accounting... : There's no ill informed speculation; as far as I can seem no names have been given. The forum community is being used to discuss an overall issue that is very important to everyone, that is the way the forum should be used. Posted by beaneh
"He should be named & shamed".
"He should be suspended while the investigation takes place".
In Response to Re: Failing to deal with multi-accounting... : That is correct - but it's not done for any other purpose than that which I have openly explained a hundred times, that is, for the purposes of playing PTP ONLY. Sky Poker fund an Account for all the PTP-ers. I play on this Site most nights of the week, & only use "TIKAY10" on my PTP evenings. The clue is in the names of my two Accounts - "TIKAY10" & "tikay1", which hardly sounds like an attempt to decieve. The PTP Account aliases of all the PTP-ers follow the same pattern. None of this can be construed in any way as "one rule for one, one rule for others". As to the thrust of the thread, I think we should not anticipate how Sky Poker are handling this. They ARE aware of the allegation, because it was sent to them a week ago. It is only right & proper that they investigate the matter thoroughly, & we don't have a trial by Forum, with a mob mentality pre-empting the outcome. If the allegation were made about YOU, or ME, the very least we would wish & expect is that Sky Poker investigated the matter with great care, rather than bowing to speculation, some of which is or may be ill-informed. The Rules on Multi-Accounting are quite clear, as a few now-Banned players on this site, one or two of them high-profile, who subsequently played the martyr card to great effect, know to their cost. But natural justice MUST be fair, & that it not something that can be ascertained instantly, & it would be wrong if it were. Please don't think I'm pro Multi-Accounting - I'm quite the opposite, as most players well know, & when I suspect M-A, I report it. Always. Posted by Tikay10
i totaly understand why you have 2 acc and im not having a go about it i know the ptp acc sky put money in for you ( and for rich on a daily basis ) and know you are not trying to decive any 1 was just saying that if sky decide to go hard against multi acc it just seems a bit he can they cant sort of thing .... personally i dont care how many acc people have as its all about just playing the game but i do see where others are coming from ( no offence was meant to you or rich ..... well maybe rich lol ..... )
In Response to Re: Failing to deal with multi-accounting... : Only because there is most likely not a set method for dealing with this. In Response to Re: Failing to deal with multi-accounting... : There's no ill informed speculation; as far as I can seem no names have been given. The forum community is being used to discuss an overall issue that is very important to everyone, that is the way the forum should be used. Posted by beaneh
I think the key to this is, its a high profiled player, and sky wouldnt want to upset them. Posted by 5toneFace
Don't agree with this! It's irrelevant who the player in question is...whether they're £4NL or £400NL! Sky wouldn't risk their company/reputation/brand (not just Sky Poker but everything) because one of the players is high profile and don't want to offend them - do you honestly believe when they've finished investigating, the suits would go "ok we accept there's something fishy going on but as it's Mr Big Rake and we like him, we'll let him off but if it was Mrs Small Fry we'll ban them?" I think not!
If Scotty was pleased with how this is being dealt with he wouldn't of created the thread. This is why it's made me critical of the situation and reading through this thread I can't say I've been filled with confidence. The fact that this guy had an edge over me on the tables that I didn't know about makes this thread very important and I've been too naive too clock on until now.
Comments
As you know I originally did things through the proper channels as I realise that this is the only way to get things done. If I had started this kinda thread a week ago with XYZ is now using the account ABC avoid then it would start the wrong kind of thread.
Also there are a lot of lurkers on these forums, and I think by posting this at least some people who play casually at cash tables will be aware of this and will be on the lookout.
To be honest the guy who is multi-accounting is not doing anything to disguise it, its almost as if he wants to be found....or he is the stupidest guy in history.
And by opening a new thread, that is free of hearsay and rumour about who the individual is, then it also allows a lot of players to put in their say about the issue.
if the 2nd account suddenly disappears/a log in takes place from the same IP then that is fairly fool proof.
and this guy is an extremely high profile player. even if the contact info on his account is out of date sky could get hold of him in about 5 mins.
Fair enough sky have to adopt an innocent until proven guilty approach and you cant seriously expect Sky to say what they do to investigate this sort of issue as that defeats the whole point! hopefully if player has half a clue this thread should help as interim measure for the other players affected....
I was merely trying to make a point. If he has a dongle he could log into both in the same room remember
Resolving a dispute by standing in the street shouting & hollering is doomed to failure, it's never yet achieved a thing except make the task harder. When I want to sort out a problem, the only people I want round the Table are those involved.
It's a huge jump from handling the matter properly & professionally, as I believe they are (though I respect your right to contest that) to saying, as you have, that this amounts to a "lack lustre attempt" by Sky Poker. I have stated the facts clearly on here. It was reported via the correct channels, to me & others. I sent it on to Head Office, at 3am in the morning as a matter of fact, & I had a reply when I got up in the morning at 9am, & they have three times written back to me subsequrntly to explain where they are with it. They have also explained that the matter is not as cut & dried as some seem to suggest. Fact, it is NOT.
I'm not sure about your last comment at all. You state.....
"....The fact a reg has to post this kind of thread to get attention is very worrying to me....."
Get attention? How does "getting attention" solve anything? It just diverts resource away from dealing with it efficiently & as quickly as is possible.
Scotty wrote to me, via PM, & I was alerted to his PM late at night, by Scotty finding me on a Table, well after midnight in fact, one night last week. So I exited my Tables (I was not "working", it was my own time), & immediately copied the info he had sent to me on to Head Office. 6 hours later - by now 9am - I had the reply from Head Office telling me what the situation was, & where they were with it. I then wrote back to Scotty before 10am the same morning. Scotty will confirm all this. How is dealing with it with such alacrity a "lack-lustre effort"?
As a matter of interest, they were already aware of the matter, & "on it", before I wrote to them.
So, the Thread has now rumbled on into 4 pages, much of it ill-informed speculation, & none of it contains a speck or iota of factual evidence. How exactly has that helped solved anything?
Hence my view. Personally, I don't think the thread solves anything, quite the opposite, I base that on the basis that I have spent my whole life in commerce untangling disputes.*
I do respect your right to feel otherwise, of course.
* One of these days I ought to tell you the story of the dispute at Chester Telephone Exchange back in the 1970's, whilst it was being constructed, when "Red Robbo" & a mate decided to stage a protest by sitting on top of a tower crane above the Building Site for a week. I resolved that, alone. (The story will be on google somewhere). I could not have resolved it by rounding up a noisy crowd & shouting at the fella.
You are assuming that Sky Poker have not already - "some time since" - made contact with the Account Holders in question.
How do you know that?
Why would they NOT have spoken with he/them?
Do you really think that this far down the line, the Account Holder(s) are NOT aware that the matter is under investigation?!
There really is a disconnect if people cannot work that bit out!
But you are 100% right - Sky Poker are never going to reveal the methods thry use to sorty these things out.
What I know, & you know, is that when Members of this Community sense an injustice - like, say, some of the High-Profile Chat Bans this Comminity has seen - the martyr threads are never far behind. And for that reason alone, matters ned to be investigated & resolved with great care.
Finally, I expect to be in a whopping bowl of hot water with the Suits for replying so candidly throughout this thread, but this rush to assume guilt (without, in the most part, ANY knowledge of the facts) is fundamentally against everything I believe in. And if the boot were on the other foot, most would agree. They would.
Players expect & demand to be treated fairly. And that cuts both ways.
I get the needle because a player busts me. So, miffed, I report him for fraud, or Multi-Accounting, & Sky Poker are supposed to snap suspend him while they investigate my malicious allegations, made simply because I have an "angle".
How long would it before everyone who busts someone gets "spite-reported" & is suspended?
This rhetorical reply does not in any way refer to the OP.
There's no ill informed speculation; as far as I can seem no names have been given. The forum community is being used to discuss an overall issue that is very important to everyone, that is the way the forum should be used.
"He should be suspended while the investigation takes place".
"He is still doing it"
( no offence was meant to you or rich ..... well maybe rich lol ..... )
This is why it's made me critical of the situation and reading through this thread I can't say I've been filled with confidence.
The fact that this guy had an edge over me on the tables that I didn't know about makes this thread very important and I've been too naive too clock on until now.