Everyone can say what they want and when they want as long as it is not offensive,as for the theories for and against any kind of skullduggery with the software? i think that there IS many many certain coincidences that occur at specific stages of play that makes MAXALLYS thread in AREA51 a pretty good read because of these certain coincidences that many many many of us players keep on noticing ;o) xxx Posted by debdobs_67
You certainly seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of irony.
In this season of good will to all men, I have been trying not to respond to several posts on this thread and other threads. However, I feel that I need to reply because some of you appear to be suffering from some form of mass delusion.
There are 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 different possible results when you shuffle a pack of cards.
The Sky Poker RNG generates one of these numbers each time that a hand of poker is played and "selects" the appropriate deck. It then "deals" this deck starting from the player seated to the left of the dealer. This means that the cards that you are dealt are randomised, not only by the selected deck but also your position at the table and the number of people sat at the table.
The RNG does not "think" about poker hands, i.e. it does not generate action hands or hands where the river always changes the outcome of the hand or hands where the bigger stack always wins. Neither does the RNG think about balancing the percentages of different types of hands. It just picks a random number every time that a hand is dealt, i.e. each hand is an independent event. The RNG merely produces a random number which happens to represent a sequence of cards to be dealt. This number is determined before a card is dealt or any action takes place at the table. The RNG has no concept of poker. It is a Random Number Generator - it might just as well be generating the numbers for the National Lottery draws or for Premium Bonds draws.
To suggest otherwise implies that the people that run this site are corrupt and/or incompetent.
Why should I care what you post? Well, a further implication from your posts is that anyone else that continues to play here is either corrupt and/or stupid. I do not consider myself to be either of these things. Also, the more easily influenced amongst you appear to be willing to jump on any bandwagon without being able to give the topic any rational thought yourself.
If anyone is going to reply to this post, I'd appreciate it if you would think carefully before doing so.
In this season of good will to all men, I have been trying not to respond to several posts on this thread and other threads. However, I feel that I need to reply because some of you appear to be suffering from some form of mass delusion. There are 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 different possible results when you shuffle a pack of cards. The Sky Poker RNG generates one of these numbers each time that a hand of poker is played and "selects" the appropriate deck. It then "deals" this deck starting from the player seated to the left of the dealer. This means that the cards that you are dealt are randomised, not only by the selected deck but also your position at the table and the number of people sat at the table. The RNG does not "think" about poker hands, i.e. it does not generate action hands or hands where the river always changes the outcome of the hand or hands where the bigger stack always wins. Neither does the RNG think about balancing the percentages of different types of hands. It just picks a random number every time that a hand is dealt , i.e. each hand is an independent event. The RNG merely produces a random number which happens to represent a sequence of cards to be dealt. This number is determined before a card is dealt or any action takes place at the table. The RNG has no concept of poker . It is a R andom N umber G enerator - it might just as well be generating the numbers for the National Lottery draws or for Premium Bonds draws. To suggest otherwise implies that the people that run this site are corrupt and/or incompetent. Why should I care what you post? Well, a further implication from your posts is that anyone else that continues to play here is either corrupt and/or stupid. I do not consider myself to be either of these things. Also, the more easily influenced amongst you appear to be willing to jump on any bandwagon without being able to give the topic any rational thought yourself. If anyone is going to reply to this post, I'd appreciate it if you would think carefully before doing so. Posted by MereNovice
Great Post.
With that many possible outcomes, how the heck would you go about building a rng??????
I wasn't going to get involved, I really wasn't, but having just played and forecast my own demise in the Open, to the very card - it was a bet with some friends who are here watching the game. I have to say that playing any tournament on here is a bit like plaiting sawdust - difficult in the extreme.
The argument over site integrity is pointless simply because it can't be proven, would never be admitted, and is after all ridiculous to think that anything could be amiss with the randomness of the cards. Unfortunately things happen in poker that cast doubts in peoples minds and lead to all kinds of rash statements regarding the legitimacy of the site. As humans we all have a tendency to recognise patterns (it's a basic function of the ''fight/flight'' part of our brain) and so we perceive things which happen repetitively as being non-random. This is of course incorrect, things will repeat occasionally, if they didn't it wouldn't be random. We also have selective memory and remember the highs and lows and the vast majority in the middle is forgotten.
All this leads to a sense of the outcome being somehow manipulated but with a clear mind these things can be recognised for what they really are. However, when ''these things'' happen with such regularity, it becomes very difficult to rationalise what is happening. I have been observing play recently and it is uncanny how many times the underdog wins the hand. I have no statistics to show this, just a few years experience of playing poker that are telling me that all is not as it should be. A lot of players seem to be either seeing or suffering from this anomaly but most will not say so publicly because they will be pounced upon.
Explaining what appears to be anomalous is very difficult to put into words, as I said earlier it can't be proven but that does not stop it being perceived. Most players on here know I'm not a losing player, in fact I have a healthy profit for 2010, and so this isn't a rant or a ''lets blame the software'' piece of trolling. I love Sky poker, I love the community and joining here 18 months ago is the best move I've made in my poker history. So I won't be leaving but I won't be playing much either for the foreseeable future simply because I don't like what I'm seeing and encountering at the tables.
Finally, the exit hand from the Open. Well I'm sat with some friends who have turned up out of the blue. I mentioned that I had a game to play but that it wouldn't take long. So a few of us went into the dining room and we chatted as I played. I made a little progress initially and then I'm on the button. I get pocket 5's. I said I'm going to limp with this and just watch what happens. I limp, SB folds and BB calls. Flop comes 44x and I said to those watching ''he has a 4 and I'm going out of the tourney here. Sure enough he had the 4 .......... now what a coincidence, but then I'm probably just seeing those patterns again.
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : Great Post. With that many possible outcomes, how the heck would you go about building a rng?????? Posted by DOHHHHHHH
My post got sabotaged by the forum software. :-))) There should be another 9 zeroes on the end of that number.
I don't know how Sky Poker's RNG was built but generally, to create a number that big, you'd need to combine numbers generated from several random events.
I looked into the question of RNG's a few years ago and as I remember it there is no way to produce a truly random selection from a machine. It may have changed in the last few years but it was generally known that a random factor has to be built into the works and that most sites used ''the clock'' in order to trigger the deal. As I have always understood it a Random Number Generator isn't truly random because apparently it's not possible.
btw: I've got my tin hat on so feel free to fire away Vince )
NOT A MOAN OR WHINING BUT THIS HAS BEEN HAPPEN LATELY - WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SAY EARLY STAGES OFF DEEPY SO RAISERS AND RERAISERS THAT`S WHY FLAT CALL, STILL WOULD CALL BUT HOW CAN THEY DO HIT AGAIN ??
I looked into the question of RNG's a few years ago and as I remember it there is no way to produce a truly random selection from a machine. It may have changed in the last few years but it was generally known that a random factor has to be built into the works and that most sites used ''the clock'' in order to trigger the deal. As I have always understood it a Random Number Generator isn't truly random because apparently it's not possible. btw: I've got my tin hat on so feel free to fire away Vince ) Posted by elsadog
The timing of a random event is often used to generate a random number. Since it is impossible to predict when this event will occur and the possibilty of all eventualities are equal, it is truly random. However, a timing from a clock on its own is not sufficient to provide a random number as large as the one required for a poker RNG. That is why several random events are combined.
Explaining what appears to be anomalous is very difficult to put into words, as I said earlier it can't be proven
Well it can...log a million or so hands and if anomolies are present you should be able to spot them! This is always where the Area 51 arguments fall down...no data to back up the anecdotal evidence.
I looked into the question of RNG's a few years ago and as I remember it there is no way to produce a truly random selection from a machine. It may have changed in the last few years but it was generally known that a random factor has to be built into the works and that most sites used ''the clock'' in order to trigger the deal.
While it's true a computer RNG is never 100% random it's so close it makes no practical difference. Most RNG methods rely on some outside input as a "seed" for the randomness and it's true in simple systems this would be taken from the computer's clock, but RNGs used by gaming companies are more sophisticated than that. To generate randomness they use things like audio patterns from radio on random frequencies, audio of traffic noise, even the decay of radioactive samples!
I'm not even going to get into auditing and other reasons any RNG meddling would be noticed and proved quickly if it was actually happening.
I can tell you when Mere ... when we started americanising our language and culture and you now have to explain things to the nth degree for some of our less learned associates,(which i wouldn't consider myself to be one of)but i have grown up amongst a family of quick witted reprobates!!!!!!
Comments
You certainly seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of irony.
However, I feel that I need to reply because some of you appear to be suffering from some form of mass delusion.
There are 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 different possible results when you shuffle a pack of cards.
The Sky Poker RNG generates one of these numbers each time that a hand of poker is played and "selects" the appropriate deck. It then "deals" this deck starting from the player seated to the left of the dealer. This means that the cards that you are dealt are randomised, not only by the selected deck but also your position at the table and the number of people sat at the table.
The RNG does not "think" about poker hands, i.e. it does not generate action hands or hands where the river always changes the outcome of the hand or hands where the bigger stack always wins. Neither does the RNG think about balancing the percentages of different types of hands. It just picks a random number every time that a hand is dealt, i.e. each hand is an independent event.
The RNG merely produces a random number which happens to represent a sequence of cards to be dealt. This number is determined before a card is dealt or any action takes place at the table. The RNG has no concept of poker. It is a Random Number Generator - it might just as well be generating the numbers for the National Lottery draws or for Premium Bonds draws.
To suggest otherwise implies that the people that run this site are corrupt and/or incompetent.
Why should I care what you post? Well, a further implication from your posts is that anyone else that continues to play here is either corrupt and/or stupid. I do not consider myself to be either of these things. Also, the more easily influenced amongst you appear to be willing to jump on any bandwagon without being able to give the topic any rational thought yourself.
If anyone is going to reply to this post, I'd appreciate it if you would think carefully before doing so.
I don't know how Sky Poker's RNG was built but generally, to create a number that big, you'd need to combine numbers generated from several random events.
The details of how the Independent Regulator works & what they protect players against is HERE
However, a timing from a clock on its own is not sufficient to provide a random number as large as the one required for a poker RNG. That is why several random events are combined.
While it's true a computer RNG is never 100% random it's so close it makes no practical difference. Most RNG methods rely on some outside input as a "seed" for the randomness and it's true in simple systems this would be taken from the computer's clock, but RNGs used by gaming companies are more sophisticated than that. To generate randomness they use things like audio patterns from radio on random frequencies, audio of traffic noise, even the decay of radioactive samples!
I'm not even going to get into auditing and other reasons any RNG meddling would be noticed and proved quickly if it was actually happening.
When you claimed that DYMs are "not poker in any shape or form", you were being ironic?
As a prize winner, when you criticised someone for posting pointless one-liners, you were being ironic?