In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : my take on that sentence was that Alan thinks that the site is run honestly, however the RnG is ever so slighlty flawed compared to other sites. Posted by scotty77
He would have to think that there is no RNG at all for his to occur. The site would certainly have to be crooked to manufacture hands so that certain people (or types of hands or stack sizes or different styles of play) regularly won - this is not something that a "flawed" RNG would produce.
Either the site is "clean" (and people stop posting ridiculous claims) or those that administer it are corrupt and/or incompetent (and people should report the site as suggested by Tikay) - there seems to be no other options to me.
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : OK if I must. The two separate statements were in reply to Tikay's post where he said I was suggesting that Sky, Himself, his dog, and everyone else was corrupt. My first statement answered that by saying I didn't suggest or claim that Sky etc. is corrupt. This is true because I didn't and never have. The second statement was that I didn't like what I was seeing at the tables and I don't. Posted by elsadog
To be clear, you think that someone is corrupt, though?
For the situations that you have described to occur, I'm sure that you can see that these would never arise just from a "flawed" RNG. Your action of limping or raising on the button would not affect the output from an already determined random number and randomly selected deck, do you not agree?
Can i just add my 2 pence worth on this subject , i have sat here and read every post on this thread (sad i know) can i just ask all the people who think that Sky Poker is bent in anyway shape or form why are you still playing on this site. If i thought that Sky Poker was bent i know for a fact that there is no-way i would carry on playing here, every single one of us who plays poker it dosent matter at what level gets bad beats, and the simple truth is if we cant take those beats without blaming something then i think it is time to find something else to do for a hobby. Because thats what it is for 99% of us a hobby it is not life or death its a game we play. Well ive had my 2 pence worth so ill just say Good luck at the tables everyone. Regards Mick.
OK, I gotta go. There's a garage round the corner where I buy my petrol, & they sell me "short" gallons every time. I still go there, though, no point reporting it is there?
Hope to see you on the MasterCash Tables tonight - I believe we are covering all Levels tonight.*
* Yes, I know it's Wednesday, but we have a Live Masterrcash Show tonight, Orford in charge, God help us.
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : To be clear, you think that someone is corrupt, though? For the situations that you have described to occur, I'm sure that you can see that these would never arise just from a "flawed" RNG. Your action of limping or raising on the button would not affect the output from an already determined random number and randomly selected deck, do you not agree? Posted by MereNovice
I said that Wow! Show me where please.
I said that too, Wow! Show me where please.
Dunno you're the expert
I have merely (no pun intended) said that I don't like what I have been observing at the tables. You guys got all defensive and tried putting words in my mouth.
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : I said that Wow! Show me where please. I said that too, Wow! Show me where please. Dunno you're the expert I have merely (no pun intended) said that I don't like what I have been observing at the tables. You guys got all defensive and tried putting words in my mouth. Posted by elsadog
You said "I played it that way purposely. I said the OP would hit because I had intentionally flat called."
How do you rationalize this statement if you do not believe that the site is corrupt?
It has been clearly stated by Sky Poker that the cards are determined by a RNG that selects the deck before any action at the table is made. You are claiming that the actions were affected because you flat called.
This is an argument that can't be won. I wasn't going to get involved, I really wasn't, but having just played and forecast my own demise in the Open, to the very card - it was a bet with some friends who are here watching the game. I have to say that playing any tournament on here is a bit like plaiting sawdust - difficult in the extreme. The argument over site integrity is pointless simply because it can't be proven, would never be admitted, and is after all ridiculous to think that anything could be amiss with the randomness of the cards. Unfortunately things happen in poker that cast doubts in peoples minds and lead to all kinds of rash statements regarding the legitimacy of the site. As humans we all have a tendency to recognise patterns (it's a basic function of the ''fight/flight'' part of our brain) and so we perceive things which happen repetitively as being non-random. This is of course incorrect, things will repeat occasionally, if they didn't it wouldn't be random. We also have selective memory and remember the highs and lows and the vast majority in the middle is forgotten. All this leads to a sense of the outcome being somehow manipulated but with a clear mind these things can be recognised for what they really are. However, when ''these things'' happen with such regularity, it becomes very difficult to rationalise what is happening. I have been observing play recently and it is uncanny how many times the underdog wins the hand. I have no statistics to show this, just a few years experience of playing poker that are telling me that all is not as it should be. A lot of players seem to be either seeing or suffering from this anomaly but most will not say so publicly because they will be pounced upon. Explaining what appears to be anomalous is very difficult to put into words, as I said earlier it can't be proven but that does not stop it being perceived. Most players on here know I'm not a losing player, in fact I have a healthy profit for 2010, and so this isn't a rant or a ''lets blame the software'' piece of trolling. I love Sky poker, I love the community and joining here 18 months ago is the best move I've made in my poker history. So I won't be leaving but I won't be playing much either for the foreseeable future simply because I don't like what I'm seeing and encountering at the tables. Finally, the exit hand from the Open. Well I'm sat with some friends who have turned up out of the blue. I mentioned that I had a game to play but that it wouldn't take long. So a few of us went into the dining room and we chatted as I played. I made a little progress initially and then I'm on the button. I get pocket 5's. I said I'm going to limp with this and just watch what happens. I limp, SB folds and BB calls. Flop comes 44x and I said to those watching ''he has a 4 and I'm going out of the tourney here. Sure enough he had the 4 .......... now what a coincidence, but then I'm probably just seeing those patterns again. Posted by elsadog
Tbf when you say things like this it seems as if you are inferring that sky is somehow less random than other sites, and for this to be true obviously someone working for sky must be corrupt.
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : I said that Wow! Show me where please. I said that too, Wow! Show me where please. Dunno you're the expert I have merely (no pun intended) said that I don't like what I have been observing at the tables. You guys got all defensive and tried putting words in my mouth. Posted by elsadog
They usually do elsa,they usually do.I myself just do not like the same scenarios in the exact same spots all the time.Ive played for over 10 years first at home and then online and i see a MASSIVE differance in variance online,there HAS to be a logical reason for this somewhere,xxx
PS please nobody come back with the usual 'oh but you see more hands online' cos 100 hands online is EXACTLY the same as 100 hands live it is just quicker.100.0000 is also the same oh and so is 1000.000
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : They usually do elsa,they usually do.I myself just do not like the same scenarios in the exact same spots all the time.Ive played for over 10 years first at home and then online and i see a MASSIVE differance in variance online,there HAS to be a logical reason for this somewhere,xxx PS please nobody come back with the usual 'oh but you see more hands online' cos 100 hands online is EXACTLY the same as 100 hands live it is just quicker.100.0000 is also the same oh and so is 1000.000 Posted by debdobs_67
Have you actually ever analysed the results of 100,000 hands?
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : You said "I played it that way purposely. I said the OP would hit because I had intentionally flat called." How do you rationalize this statement if you do not believe that the site is corrupt? It has been clearly stated by Sky Poker that the cards are determined by a RNG that selects the deck before any action at the table is made. You are claiming that the actions were affected because you flat called. Can you reconcile these apparent contradictions? Posted by MereNovice
I had some friends call round and I had an entry to Santa's Sack from a couple of weeks previous. I decided to enter the ME so I had 2 tables up at the same time. We got talking and they asked me how I was doing at the poker. I said that all was not well and that I seemed to hit a brick wall in every game I played on Sky over the past few months. They asked what I meant and I explained that I was struggling to win any hand. They asked why and I said I was stopping playing for a period to see if things improved at a later date. They asked about why I was struggling to win almost any hands and I said watch this. I had pocket 5's in the BB and said that I could either fold them or raise them. I wasn't intending to sit playing poker and ignoring our friends so I said watch what happens. The only way was to flat call and the sb folded and the bb checked. I then checked or called in order for the bb's hand to be shown at the end. When the flop came down 44x I said he will have a 4 and I go out here. As I said in my first post - a coincidence. I don't know if it is or isn't but there are a lot of coincidences just lately.
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : I had some friends call round and I had an entry to Santa's Sack from a couple of weeks previous. I decided to enter the ME so I had 2 tables up at the same time. We got talking and they asked me how I was doing at the poker. I said that all was not well and that I seemed to hit a brick wall in every game I played on Sky over the past few months. They asked what I meant and I explained that I was struggling to win any hand. They asked why and I said I was stopping playing for a period to see if things improved at a later date. They asked about why I was struggling to win almost any hands and I said watch this. I had pocket 5's in the BB and said that I could either fold them or raise them. I wasn't intending to sit playing poker and ignoring our friends so I said watch what happens. The only way was to flat call and the sb folded and the bb checked. I then checked or called in order for the bb's hand to be shown at the end. When the flop came down 44x I said he will have a 4 and I go out here. As I said in my first post - a coincidence. I don't know if it is or isn't but there are a lot of coincidences just lately. Posted by elsadog
Ok. Just to be clear, you are now saying that he didn't hit trips because you flat called, i.e. the community cards weren't altered by your pre-flop action?
In Response to Re: Downhill Spiral : Tbf when you say things like this it seems as if you are inferring that sky is somehow less random than other sites, and for this to be true obviously someone working for sky must be corrupt. Posted by yb
Good point and yes it could be interpreted that way. I simply voiced my concerns regarding what I have seen recently and a proper discussion as to the reasons would have been good.
Guys - don't forget, even though it's Wednesday, we have a LIVE SHOW this evening - an "all-levels" MasterCash special, with lots of freebie giveaway prizes. And Orford.
Before that, I'm about to pre-record a TSP Classic half-hour jobbie, which will tx at 8pm on Saturday.
Comments
The site would certainly have to be crooked to manufacture hands so that certain people (or types of hands or stack sizes or different styles of play) regularly won - this is not something that a "flawed" RNG would produce.
Either the site is "clean" (and people stop posting ridiculous claims) or those that administer it are corrupt and/or incompetent (and people should report the site as suggested by Tikay) - there seems to be no other options to me.
For the situations that you have described to occur, I'm sure that you can see that these would never arise just from a "flawed" RNG. Your action of limping or raising on the button would not affect the output from an already determined random number and randomly selected deck, do you not agree?
If i thought that Sky Poker was bent i know for a fact that there is no-way i would carry on playing here, every single one of us who plays poker it dosent matter at what level gets bad beats, and the simple truth is if we cant take those beats without blaming something then i think it is time to find something else to do for a hobby.
Because thats what it is for 99% of us a hobby it is not life or death its a game we play.
Well ive had my 2 pence worth so ill just say Good luck at the tables everyone.
Regards Mick.
OK, I gotta go. There's a garage round the corner where I buy my petrol, & they sell me "short" gallons every time. I still go there, though, no point reporting it is there?
Hope to see you on the MasterCash Tables tonight - I believe we are covering all Levels tonight.*
* Yes, I know it's Wednesday, but we have a Live Masterrcash Show tonight, Orford in charge, God help us.
How do you rationalize this statement if you do not believe that the site is corrupt?
It has been clearly stated by Sky Poker that the cards are determined by a RNG that selects the deck before any action at the table is made. You are claiming that the actions were affected because you flat called.
Can you reconcile these apparent contradictions?
PS please nobody come back with the usual 'oh but you see more hands online' cos 100 hands online is EXACTLY the same as 100 hands live it is just quicker.100.0000 is also the same oh and so is 1000.000
Have you actually ever analysed the results of 100,000 hands?
Coincidence?
Guys - don't forget, even though it's Wednesday, we have a LIVE SHOW this evening - an "all-levels" MasterCash special, with lots of freebie giveaway prizes. And Orford.
Before that, I'm about to pre-record a TSP Classic half-hour jobbie, which will tx at 8pm on Saturday.
Have a nice evening.