Well I agree with you like I said above, russian roulettes should not have league points, but Sky have also noticed that having this loop hole means alot of rake for them and are probably unlikely to change it. Goodluck in your quest and hopefully see you in the MTT
a) link me to details of the league/promotion (i have checked my promotions and cant find) please help b) tell me or link me to where i can find league standings c) tell me if it is a 3 month league again
Well I agree with you like I said above, russian roulettes should not have league points, but Sky have also noticed that having this loop hole means alot of rake for them and are probably unlikely to change it. Goodluck in your quest and hopefully see you in the MTT Posted by FlashFlush
Flash,
Have you done any sums to show cost of rake through the qualifying period, versus average EV for qualifying for the final?
In Response to Re: Well known 50/100nl regular intends to play multiple roulette HU games in order to qualify for the stt league final rather than the cash league final : Your forgetting that will cost him £80 to do that... If he is willing to lose that money then thats up to him. Its a sacrafice people are willing to make, and shows how much a place on TSP means to some people Posted by FlashFlush
problem is m8y if more then 30 players do this it will cost a lot more then £80 to get a place.
what figure does it stop at then ?
plus unless s&g players join in the rr way , they are wasting their time making the extra effort to play proper s&g poker games .
Not sure on this but I'd check it out, if you qualify for both the Cash and STT finals isn't it sky who decide on which you enter or is it based on your qualifying position in each. Would be a shame to dump £XX's playing RR's and still end up in the cash final.
Either way it demonstrates the fact that you want to be on the team and I can't see anything wrong with that, in fact you should be given credit for wanting it rather than be criticised in such an underhand manner. Nor would I question someone wishing to avoid the strongest final to get on the team, there's no denying the cash final contains a nightmare field.
The genius of this system is that it encourages everyone who wants to be on the team to play more, but the reality is that unless you play cash at a reasonable level you won't earn enough bonus to enter more live events and if non cash players try grinding cash it will likely end in tears. In reality anyone who makes the team and wants to stay on it will have to take on the cash players (as Flash already does) and that's no easy ride.
How ridiculous! He made the cash final last time comfortably and will do again. Maybe he doesn't think he is good enough to beat the cash players in an mtt. He has a perfectly good mtt game, so I don't really understand. I feel a bit offended really because most of the regular stt players are very decent. I am going to qualify into the stt final this time, through multi tabling dyms regularly. It seems a shame that this player will get there by just clicking "OK" i register. We can all do that if we have the bank roll. Whinge over. JUST CANCEL LEAGUE POINTS FOR ROULETTE GAMES PLEASE!!! On a positive note, all of the new tsp members thoroughly deserved their places and i wish them every luck. I think the whole process has been handled very well by Sky, i just hope they can do something about the roulette games contributing to the league. *EDIT, also need to look at why a 30p dym win gets 3 league points, and a £420 HU win gets only 4 league points, further examples below... Posted by GREGHOGG
This was brought up a couple of months ago and someone from Sky advised that the suits were obviously happy with the rake they were making from people grinding the RR's so they won't change.
I agree entirely that the league points in the STT's are not fair and its extremely frustrating grinding away at DYMs for several hrs a day knowing you have no chance of keeping up with the people that feel inclined the 'buy' their way to the top.
I'm not surprised cash players have noticed this 'easy route', several DYM grinders got into the TSP qualifier last quarter from doing this and are continuing to run away with it this time. So who can blame them for doing the same ?
I managed 16th in the league last quarter from grinding DYM's, I will try again this quarter as the TSP qualifier tournament was great and I really enjoyed it (the result helped obv). If I dont make it again because the top 30 is filled the RRers I wont bother trying again.
Thanks to all the stt regulars for your comments. Hopefully something can be done, but if it stays the same we will all have to like it or lump it obv.
But one thing for sure is that i wont resort to RR's myself. Out of principle.
Stien, there is nothing underhand about this thread, my comments are on an open forum and clear and i am not criticising Flash. Indeed, i have said fair play to him if that's what he wishes to do. I just think its ridiculous for a very good cash player to feel that he has to play RR's!
My only gripe with his decision is in the opening post, the inference that stt players are so much more inferior than cash players. Flash said himself that he was not hiding what he was doing, or how else would i have found out about it? Of course it is commendable that he is desperate to get on TSP, and i wish him every luck...
I have sent Flash a PM to explain further and to apologise for any offence caused.
Thanks to all the stt regulars for your comments. Hopefully something can be done, but if it stays the same we will all have to like it or lump it obv. But one thing for sure is that i wont resort to RR's myself. Out of principle. Stien, there is nothing underhand about this thread, my comments are on an open forum and clear and i am not criticising Flash. Indeed, i have said fair play to him if that's what he wishes to do. I just think its ridiculous for a very good cash player to feel that he has to play RR's! My only gripe with his decision is in the opening post, the inference that stt players are so much more inferior than cash players. Flash said himself that he was not hiding what he was doing, or how else would i have found out about it? Of course it is commendable that he is desperate to get on TSP, and i wish him every luck... Posted by GREGHOGG
But... this is true though? It's not a slight on STT players, it's a fact. The cash field IS much harder! It's made up of professional players who play for a living, where the STT field is made up of a lot of very good recreational players. I doubt many of the STT group play for a living, which means the cash players have hundreds of hours more experience. I'm speaking as an MTT and STT player myself, I admire the game and discipline these top cash players have, I wish I had half that ability.
I think on their day a good STT player can win any tournament- the difference is cash players tend to bring their A game on almost every occasion.
In Response to Re: Well known 50/100nl regular intends to play multiple roulette HU games in order to qualify for the stt league final rather than the cash league final : But... this is true though? It's not a slight on STT players, it's a fact. The cash field IS much harder! It's made up of professional players who play for a living, where the STT field is made up of a lot of very good recreational players. I doubt many of the STT group play for a living, which means the cash players have hundreds of hours more experience. I'm speaking as an MTT and STT player myself, I admire the game and discipline these top cash players have, I wish I had half that ability. I think on their day a good STT player can win any tournament- the difference is cash players tend to bring their A game on almost every occasion. Posted by DeucesLive
I have a huge amount of respect for the top cash players on this site also in terms of their ability and discipline and i too, wish i was as good as them.
On occasion though, i do feel that some cash players lack respect for mtt/stt players. But i dont want to start a debate on this, we will be here all day!
The cash field for the league mtt is obviously tougher, yes. But being tougher doesent mean that the stt players are mugs, far from it!
In a cash game, many of the stt players, including me, would get owned by the cash players. BUT, the final is NOT a cash game. It is a one off MTT, so i think the finals are more even than people realise!!
I truly doubt anyone would call the STT players mugs, there's some extremely good players- I agree completely! and it's going to be tough to get through any of the fields. But, and I mean this with total respect because I've been playing them all lately and I know they have excellent game, if you offer me a table with Shanxta, 18and5, johnconnor and yourself, or a table with ljamesl, gliterbabe, lolufold and ajs (to name just 4, you could replace those with all the rest like browndog, dan, flash, etc etc) I know which one I'd pick, every single day. Doesn't mean you guys are bad or that I'd be in any way guaranteed to win, but I would fancy my chances far more. I'm sure you'd say the same.
I truly doubt anyone would call the STT players mugs, there's some extremely good players- I agree completely! and it's going to be tough to get through any of the fields. But, and I mean this with total respect because I've been playing them all lately and I know they have excellent game, if you offer me a table with Shanxta, 18and5, johnconnor and yourself, or a table with ljamesl, gliterbabe, lolufold and ajs (to name just 4, you could replace those with all the rest like browndog, dan, flash, etc etc) I know which one I'd pick, every single day. Doesn't mean you guys are bad or that I'd be in any way guaranteed to win, but I would fancy my chances far more. I'm sure you'd say the same. Posted by DeucesLive
Is there a table with Ozzie08, Dylan12 and DAIBOOT? If so i take that one?:)
Yes, you raise a fair point. None of the cash players you mention would call us mugs. I know a couple, who you havent mentioned, who would though
Anyway, im gonna play some dyms soon, sure you will be on my table to haunt me as usual lol.
Even if half the site complained about this it will not change in terms of RR's offering points.
Why ? Because sky are a business their to make money and they offer good money for them on a fast basis - its like the ideal money making machine for them.
The system is 100% flawed and it will not change until at least the next qualifying period because it won't be fair upon the first 12 days of play. I mean look at the difference as stated by a the micro stakes to the big stakes in the way sit and go points are offered.
I don't blame anyone for taking the RR route to get in the STT final if they feel that is the easiest field to beat for them. I would have been in that final last time round regardless and probably in the top 3 but I played a few just to make sure at the time early on.
People have to realise at the end of the day it comes down to an MTT where your AA can get cracked by a similar stacks KK all in pre and bam....your gone for all that effort. That's why I wont be putting in more effort to do so this time round because that method does not select the best MTT player from that group of 30. Playing that same MTT 5 times ? 10 times ? and averaging the position won't but would give a good idea based on average position.
Sky of course can't do this because of time and availabilities for everyone. We all know the rules and it's your choice whether to find loop holes or glitches because theirs always someone else that will and take advantage of it.
Even if half the site complained about this it will not change in terms of RR's offering points. Why ? Because sky are a business their to make money and they offer good money for them on a fast basis - its like the ideal money making machine for them. The system is 100% flawed and it will not change until at least the next qualifying period because it won't be fair upon the first 12 days of play. I mean look at the difference as stated by a the micro stakes to the big stakes in the way sit and go points are offered. I don't blame anyone for taking the RR route to get in the STT final if they feel that is the easiest field to beat for them. I would have been in that final last time round regardless and probably in the top 3 but I played a few just to make sure at the time early on. People have to realise at the end of the day it comes down to an MTT where your AA can get cracked by a similar stacks KK all in pre and bam....your gone for all that effort. That's why I wont be putting in more effort to do so this time round because that method does not select the best MTT player from that group of 30. Playing that same MTT 5 times ? 10 times ? and averaging the position won't but would give a good idea based on average position. Sky of course can't do this because of time and availabilities for everyone. We all know the rules and it's your choice whether to find loop holes or glitches because theirs always someone else that will and take advantage of it. Good Luck qualifying all Posted by Nutter5932
Nice post Ben
You were vul in the last league final m8. I'm sure with your persistence and ability you will get there eventually though.
I still like the idea of giving "sky vegas" points to peeps that play RR's rather than poker league points though. They could build up their vegas points and then exchange for cash to use on sky vegas. This would maintain interest in roulettes for the gamblers and resolve the poker league issue. And that money recycled into the sky system.
Your forgetting that will cost him £80 to do that... Posted by FlashFlush
That's correct, but this person will be getting a good part of that back in CFP. Also it buys them 3 shots at a seat worth £220 in the Sky Sports double stack via the League Stars Freeroll (a Russian Roulette player won a seat this month), also a shot at the £2K of cash up for grabs in the quarterly TSP final.
FWIW I hate league points being awarded for RR, I moaned about it on this forum when I first joined because the RR players were taking all the big STT league cash prizes. However I'm pleased that cash players are using the rules to their advantage, a 50/100 cash reg deserves the big prize (TSP) a million times more than the RR guys.
In Response to Re: Well known 50/100nl regular intends to play multiple roulette HU games in order to qualify for the stt league final rather than the cash league final : Flash, Have you done any sums to show cost of rake through the qualifying period, versus average EV for qualifying for the final? Posted by jakally
Hi Jakally
I have done very quick guesses/estimations. I think 9k points will be enough to comfortably qualify, You get 3 points per win so I will need to win 3k games (so play 6k). Estimating I win 50% of games and break even on buyins it will cost me 600 in rake. This however adds 6,000 points to my cash for points which added to my current total could be worth about £300, meaning if I make the final table I would of broken even (roughly). If I win a seat however this is priceless, it would give me the excuse to play full time (once again I've worked it out and makes very good sense) and as long as Sky were to keep renewing the 3 month contract could be worth ££,£££'s through buyins.
Anyway this is all if, buts and maybe's... Lets see what these 3 months bring, if it doesn't work out I'll go back to the cash route next quarter
Even if half the site complained about this it will not change in terms of RR's offering points. Why ? Because sky are a business their to make money and they offer good money for them on a fast basis - its like the ideal money making machine for them. The system is 100% flawed and it will not change until at least the next qualifying period because it won't be fair upon the first 12 days of play. I mean look at the difference as stated by a the micro stakes to the big stakes in the way sit and go points are offered. I don't blame anyone for taking the RR route to get in the STT final if they feel that is the easiest field to beat for them. I would have been in that final last time round regardless and probably in the top 3 but I played a few just to make sure at the time early on. People have to realise at the end of the day it comes down to an MTT where your AA can get cracked by a similar stacks KK all in pre and bam....your gone for all that effort. That's why I wont be putting in more effort to do so this time round because that method does not select the best MTT player from that group of 30. Playing that same MTT 5 times ? 10 times ? and averaging the position won't but would give a good idea based on average position. Sky of course can't do this because of time and availabilities for everyone. We all know the rules and it's your choice whether to find loop holes or glitches because theirs always someone else that will and take advantage of it. Good Luck qualifying all Posted by Nutter5932
Great post xxx Oh and btw well done on taking down last nights OPEN
Comments
could some please
a) link me to details of the league/promotion (i have checked my promotions and cant find) please help
b) tell me or link me to where i can find league standings
c) tell me if it is a 3 month league again
thanks in advance
problem is m8y if more then 30 players do this it will cost a lot more then £80 to get a place.
what figure does it stop at then ?
plus unless s&g players join in the rr way ,
they are wasting their time making the extra effort to play proper s&g poker games .
i have done my own detective work and eventually got there
Flash,
Not sure on this but I'd check it out, if you qualify for both the Cash and STT finals isn't it sky who decide on which you enter or is it based on your qualifying position in each. Would be a shame to dump £XX's playing RR's and still end up in the cash final.
Either way it demonstrates the fact that you want to be on the team and I can't see anything wrong with that, in fact you should be given credit for wanting it rather than be criticised in such an underhand manner. Nor would I question someone wishing to avoid the strongest final to get on the team, there's no denying the cash final contains a nightmare field.
The genius of this system is that it encourages everyone who wants to be on the team to play more, but the reality is that unless you play cash at a reasonable level you won't earn enough bonus to enter more live events and if non cash players try grinding cash it will likely end in tears. In reality anyone who makes the team and wants to stay on it will have to take on the cash players (as Flash already does) and that's no easy ride.
But one thing for sure is that i wont resort to RR's myself. Out of principle.
Stien, there is nothing underhand about this thread, my comments are on an open forum and clear and i am not criticising Flash. Indeed, i have said fair play to him if that's what he wishes to do. I just think its ridiculous for a very good cash player to feel that he has to play RR's!
My only gripe with his decision is in the opening post, the inference that stt players are so much more inferior than cash players. Flash said himself that he was not hiding what he was doing, or how else would i have found out about it? Of course it is commendable that he is desperate to get on TSP, and i wish him every luck...
I have sent Flash a PM to explain further and to apologise for any offence caused.
I think on their day a good STT player can win any tournament- the difference is cash players tend to bring their A game on almost every occasion.
On occasion though, i do feel that some cash players lack respect for mtt/stt players. But i dont want to start a debate on this, we will be here all day!
The cash field for the league mtt is obviously tougher, yes. But being tougher doesent mean that the stt players are mugs, far from it!
In a cash game, many of the stt players, including me, would get owned by the cash players. BUT, the final is NOT a cash game. It is a one off MTT, so i think the finals are more even than people realise!!
Yes, you raise a fair point. None of the cash players you mention would call us mugs. I know a couple, who you havent mentioned, who would though
Anyway, im gonna play some dyms soon, sure you will be on my table to haunt me as usual lol.
You were vul in the last league final m8. I'm sure with your persistence and ability you will get there eventually though.
I still like the idea of giving "sky vegas" points to peeps that play RR's rather than poker league points though. They could build up their vegas points and then exchange for cash to use on sky vegas. This would maintain interest in roulettes for the gamblers and resolve the poker league issue. And that money recycled into the sky system.
FWIW I hate league points being awarded for RR, I moaned about it on this forum when I first joined because the RR players were taking all the big STT league cash prizes. However I'm pleased that cash players are using the rules to their advantage, a 50/100 cash reg deserves the big prize (TSP) a million times more than the RR guys.
I have done very quick guesses/estimations. I think 9k points will be enough to comfortably qualify, You get 3 points per win so I will need to win 3k games (so play 6k). Estimating I win 50% of games and break even on buyins it will cost me 600 in rake. This however adds 6,000 points to my cash for points which added to my current total could be worth about £300, meaning if I make the final table I would of broken even (roughly). If I win a seat however this is priceless, it would give me the excuse to play full time (once again I've worked it out and makes very good sense) and as long as Sky were to keep renewing the 3 month contract could be worth ££,£££'s through buyins.
Anyway this is all if, buts and maybe's... Lets see what these 3 months bring, if it doesn't work out I'll go back to the cash route next quarter
Oh and btw well done on taking down last nights OPEN