Hi Jon.....good luck in your time in the 'well'. Couple of questions, From the League table, it seems you play no STT's and very few MTT's. Have you always just been mainly a cash player or did you start at the beginning of your poker life playing other variations? How many other sites do you play on? Cheers, Alan Posted by MAXALLY
When i first started playing online i would play $5 sitngos. I probably played sitngos for about a year with absolutely no success. i used to deposit 20 quid then just play $5 and $10 sitnogos til i went bust. I sucked pretty badly.
I do remember though on one of the other site they have those jackpot sitngos where you have to win 5 in a row for $15k, i won 4 in a row then got beat in the 5th HU QQ vs A7 or something, felt like smashing the computer up but used the $200 consolation prize to start playing a bit of cash and started playing cash pretty much all the time from then on.
I would say sitngos are probably quite a good way to build your roll at the microstakes though if you take the time to learn basic strategy.
I pretty much play on Sky all the time now but have played on most of the major sites at one point or another, nowadays its usually when theres no games running on sky or im tilted.
In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT : best tourney result was when i won the bounty hunter i think, cant remember how much it was. ive only ever played one live tournament and didnt cash. I dont play a lot of tournaments and have only recently started taking them a bit more seriously. When you look at my sharkscope you can see a huge nosedive at the start because i would literally play every hand, call every all in just to try and get a big stack and wouldnt care if i got knocked out. That got less fun after a while so i decided to stop doing that. I still dont take them as seriously as i should though. They tilt me too much. Offshoot is just a random word. No real meaning. favourite cash game level? dunno, i play 100nl and 200nl the most though. I remember a couple of years ago the 500nl game used to run everyday on here, those were the days, if only i knew then what i know now, unfortunately i wasnt very good then and those games dont run anymore. Tikay older than the queen? most definitely, the first ever postage stamp had a picture of Tikay on it instead of the Queen i think. favourite starting hand is probably 22 or 53, Easier to get paid off when you hit. i never play ace rag. I remember when i first started playing poker i read somewhere that people lose more money with weak aces than any other starting hands so i just never played them. You usually end up winning small pots and losing bigger ones. Posted by offshoot
This must win forum post of the week and a free entry into VLV Final surely????
Ps Im sure Rich wont mention this during the next live show will you Rich?? Hint Hint
Hi What Stakes did u start playing online? How many times have u gone busto on ur poker account? eg. had to start again Again interested whether u started from cash or MTT/STT? what would be your best advice for the transition from tourneys to cash? Many Thanks John(with a 'H' ) Posted by YOUNG_GUN
I started off playing $5 or $10 sitnogos. I think when i tried out cash it was at 100nl, i had zero clue about bankroll management and would reguarly go bust. If were talking £20 deposits its probably more than 30 times at a conservative estimate. If were talking bigger bankrolls when i first started i remember coming 2nd in a freeroll for £800 and having more than £1k in my account before bustoing it. I then ran $3 into more than £4k before going busto. That one probably hurt the most because i finally thought i figured it out but then 5/10nl got the better of me. I almost busto'd a 17k bankroll one time playing 10/20 and 25/50 but stopped with about 2k left and havent been broke since then.
I have to say though those were some dark times. Over time you learn to cope with downswings and bad beats but back then i had zero tilt control and it took a log time to get over losing that much. Probably the perfect example of how not to build a bankroll. Also a perfect example of someone wiith zero 'natural ability' for poker i guess. I had zero tilt control, no BRM skills, terrible at math and i lost consistently for years. Im a strong believer that anything is possible though if you set your mind on it and work hard enough.
Transitioning from tourney to cash you have to accept that a successfull tournament strategy is probably not gonna be the right way to win at cash. In tournaments youre constantly trying to risk the least amount of chips and pick up the blinds etc. and play smallball while waiting for a big hand where as in cash youre looking to get max value from every hand.
In cash you are gonna be put in the exact same situations as your opponents over and over. If you only get 2 streets of value with tptk and everytime they have tptk they get 3 streets of value from you youre not gonna be making much money in the long run. So dont be scared to get the money in when you have a big hand or dont expect other people to build pots for you.
This is really fascinating. A tale is emerging of a bloke who was useless at poker, & useless at Bankroll Management. As such, skinto was inevitable.
And yet, somehow, out of that mess, he sorted himself out, turned it all round, & now makes a nice little living by sitting at home & playing a game, & a (relatively) high-stakes game at that.
Tell us more about that transition, how you got from A to B?
In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT : I started off playing $5 or $10 sitnogos. I think when i tried out cash it was at 100nl, i had zero clue about bankroll management and would reguarly go bust. If were talking £20 deposits its probably more than 30 times at a conservative estimate. If were talking bigger bankrolls when i first started i remember coming 2nd in a freeroll for £800 and having more than £1k in my account before bustoing it. I then ran $3 into more than £4k before going busto. That one probably hurt the most because i finally thought i figured it out but then 5/10nl got the better of me. I almost busto'd a 17k bankroll one time playing 10/20 and 25/50 but stopped with about 2k left and havent been broke since then. I have to say though those were some dark times. Over time you learn to cope with downswings and bad beats but back then i had zero tilt control and it took a log time to get over losing that much. Probably the perfect example of how not to build a bankroll. Also a perfect example of someone wiith zero 'natural ability' for poker i guess. I had zero tilt control, no BRM skills, terrible at math and i lost consistently for years. Im a strong believer that anything is possible though if you set your mind on it and work hard enough. Transitioning from tourney to cash you have to accept that a successfull tournament strategy is probably not gonna be the right way to win at cash. In tournaments youre constantly trying to risk the least amount of chips and pick up the blinds etc. and play smallball while waiting for a big hand where as in cash youre looking to get max value from every hand. In cash you are gonna be put in the exact same situations as your opponents over and over. If you only get 2 streets of value with tptk and everytime they have tptk they get 3 streets of value from you youre not gonna be making much money in the long run. So dont be scared to get the money in when you have a big hand or dont expect other people to build pots for you. Posted by offshoot
hiya Jon your sitting in a cash game theres a player constantly raising into you your card dead,is there a point you fight back with a2c or do you jusr re-raise straight away with a2c anyway just to let them know you wont be bullied thx m8 sean..
i remember a couple of years ago when i played recreationally i met you at the 50nl games. how long did you grind at this level for and what bankroll rule did you set yourself for moving up the levels? also when your say 10+ tabling, are you still able to think about what you are doing for what reasons etc or is it a case of playing dependant on your cards/position and the notes you have on the player(s)? Posted by hurst05
yeah near the end of 2009 i dropped down to 50nl after a rough downswing. Not really for bankroll reasons but more because i was pretty much sucking and had been playing terribly for a while. I wasnt even sure i could beat 200nl anymore. I would say i grinded 50nl exclusively for like 2 months, then did 100nl and 50nl for the next month or so. In that time i think i improved my game massively and totally changed my game. i didnt really set myself any rules on when to move up and in fact i was quite content to stay at 50nl as long as i was winning. I played about 8 hours a day non stop and after 2 months felt like i was playing well enough to jump up and try 100nl+ again. Ive never set myself bankroll rules but i guess a 30 buyin rule is ok. I think its more being comfortable at the level your moving up to that you can still play your A game and not feel the pain of losing multiple buyins. I think aggressive shot taking is the way to go if you have the discipline to set a stoploss and move back down if it doesnt go well.
When multitabling i would say over time my thought process just got up to speed with how many tables im playing. I had the same thought process when 5 or 6 tabling as i do now when playing 12+tables i just am able to process all the information quicker. What position im in, what the action has been, who's to act after me etc. Sometimes i make mistakes i wouldnt 4 tabling but on the whole i think i play the same.
I find it helps to think through a lot of 'what ifs' aswell like if he calls my bet on the flop am i gonna bet turn, what if he raises? a lot of the time they will fold and its easy but its good to have a plan for the hand if you get put in awkward spots because you can be thinking about this stuff while your making all the standard decisions on the other tables.
Notes are handy for randoms but i dont take notes on regs usually.
Jon How many tables do you play comfortably when multi tabling? How long are your sessions? Do you support a football team if so which? Gl mate Posted by a00rock
i usually open up all the tables that are running 100nl and above. 12 is comfortable, i can manage upto about 16 before things get a bit hectic.
I try and play at least 2 hours a day, i usually get to about 3 hours and then i start making more mistakes so usually quit. Im gonna start trying to play at least 5 hours a day but i dont like playing during the day when there arent many tables running. Last month was the highest Cash4Points total ive ever got, 36k, and i played 84 hours last month. Im gonna try and start getting that every month(not this one though).
Whos your best mate on here? how many hours roughly do u spend playing a weel? Posted by YOUNG_GUN
i have a irl friend who plays microstakes but thats about it, dont really talk to anyone else much on here. I prefer not to be friends with people i have to play against.
i usually play somewhere between 60-80 hours a month
hiya Jon your sitting in a cash game theres a player constantly raising into you your card dead,is there a point you fight back with a2c or do you jusr re-raise straight away with a2c anyway just to let them know you wont be bullied thx m8 sean.. Posted by stokefc
the joy of cash games is you can wait for a hand. I wouldnt re raise them straight away until i knew for certain they were getting out of line. i mean someone could raise you 3 times in a row but have it every time. If i raise and keep getting re raised then i would just adjust what hands im willing to stack off with. If someones consistently re raising then i can say well i have no problem getting it in with AJ here because my opponent is probably re raising me with worse.
Hi Offshoot. What book were you reading in Oz? How much did it help you? Do you eat porridge now you live in Scotland? Posted by DrSharp
it was called something like "the idiots guide to poker". It just taught me the basic rules and stuff, not that helpful really. To tell the truth i havent really read any poker books. Ive read maybe half of Harrington on Holdem and bits and pieces of super system, this was still when i wasl a losing player but i dont think i absorbed the information well or was able to apply it to my game. I think i was weaktight then aswell, i sometimes knew it was right to raise but i was scared to do it in case i lost my money.
It wasnt really books that helped me, I actually remember watching a point where it clicked is when i found a video on 2+2 that someone had posted of themselves playing poker, must have been before youtube was popular cos it took ages to download but just watching someone actually raise, cbet and take down pot after pot was a revelation. I'd read thats the correct strategy but whenever i tried it i still seemed to lose but now i actually had proof that it worked, i could see it with my own eyes. The guy bet with nothing and everyone folded, i was always certain if i bet people would know i had nothing and raise me.. So next time i played i stuck with it and kept cbetting and it started working. now i didnt even have to wait for a hand to make money! Ive realised since then that if you wanna get better, just look at the people who seem to be winning all the money, and try to figure what theyre doing that youre not. Theres always someone better than you no matter how good you thin k you are.
Living in Scotland my diet consists solely of haggis.
In Response to Re: In The Well # 2 - OFFSHOOT : it was called something like "the idiots guide to poker". It just taught me the basic rules and stuff, not that helpful really. To tell the truth i havent really read any poker books. Ive read maybe half of Harrington on Holdem and bits and pieces of super system, this was still when i wasl a losing player but i dont think i absorbed the information well or was able to apply it to my game. I think i was weaktight then aswell, i sometimes knew it was right to raise but i was scared to do it in case i lost my money. It wasnt really books that helped me, I actually remember watching a point where it clicked is when i found a video on 2+2 that someone had posted of themselves playing poker, must have been before youtube was popular cos it took ages to download but just watching someone actually raise, cbet and take down pot after pot was a revelation. I'd read thats the correct strategy but whenever i tried it i still seemed to lose but now i actually had proof that it worked, i could see it with my own eyes. The guy bet with nothing and everyone folded, i was always certain if i bet people would know i had nothing and raise me.. So next time i played i stuck with it and kept cbetting and it started working. now i didnt even have to wait for a hand to make money! Ive realised since then that if you wanna get better, just look at the people who seem to be winning all the money, and try to figure what theyre doing that youre not. Theres always someone better than you no matter how good you thin k you are. Living in Scotland my diet consists solely of haggis. Posted by offshoot
Do you prefer clockwise Haggis or anti-clockwise Haggis?
Hi mate My question is: What advice would you give to young players who think they can play the game full time and see poker as a profession? Posted by pryce6
You say that you have only played live once and didnt cash. Did you not enjoy the experience ? What do you see yourself doing in two years time ? Still grinding away at cash, but making money even quicker ! ? Or do you have other poker ambitions ? How quickly can you assess the ability of a newbie on a table ? Do you regularly review your own play, or only when you have had a poor session ? Have you ever read the ingredients of salami ? Posted by penguin7
i didnt enjoy the experience much tbh. I hadnt got much sleep so was extremely tired, i was card dead all day, made some rookie mistakes and then i shoved Q6 into JJ and was out. The only positive was that i got to play with Liv Boeree.
In 2 years time?i will most likely still be grinding away at cash. Hopefully still making good money. Ive not really thought about it tbh, maybe i should set some goals to achieve. Its hard to say what poker will be like in 2 years time though.
Usually if someonee sits down at my table and i dont recognise their name i assume theyre an amateur, you can usually tell straghit away if someones good by how often they raise/3bet/how much they bet. Bad players give themselves away straight away by limping/minraising/calling too much. It only takes a few hands to categorise someone i think, then you can obviously change you opinion if they arent bad or whatever but thats rarely the case.
i review my play in my head but never look at hand histories or anything. Im too lazy. I will usually just go over specific hands that i remember which i feel i played badly and think about what i did wrong and how to prevent it in the future. Or thiink about general overall strategies to turn things which i think, or my opponents think are my leaks, into postives.
i havent read the ingredients. I prefer to be ignorant. Im sure theyre terrible but all that really matters to me is what it takes like. If it tastes ok then im not fussy.
Comments
I do remember though on one of the other site they have those jackpot sitngos where you have to win 5 in a row for $15k, i won 4 in a row then got beat in the 5th HU QQ vs A7 or something, felt like smashing the computer up but used the $200 consolation prize to start playing a bit of cash and started playing cash pretty much all the time from then on.
I would say sitngos are probably quite a good way to build your roll at the microstakes though if you take the time to learn basic strategy.
I pretty much play on Sky all the time now but have played on most of the major sites at one point or another, nowadays its usually when theres no games running on sky or im tilted.
Ps Im sure Rich wont mention this during the next live show will you Rich?? Hint Hint
I have to say though those were some dark times. Over time you learn to cope with downswings and bad beats but back then i had zero tilt control and it took a log time to get over losing that much. Probably the perfect example of how not to build a bankroll. Also a perfect example of someone wiith zero 'natural ability' for poker i guess. I had zero tilt control, no BRM skills, terrible at math and i lost consistently for years. Im a strong believer that anything is possible though if you set your mind on it and work hard enough.
Transitioning from tourney to cash you have to accept that a successfull tournament strategy is probably not gonna be the right way to win at cash. In tournaments youre constantly trying to risk the least amount of chips and pick up the blinds etc. and play smallball while waiting for a big hand where as in cash youre looking to get max value from every hand.
In cash you are gonna be put in the exact same situations as your opponents over and over. If you only get 2 streets of value with tptk and everytime they have tptk they get 3 streets of value from you youre not gonna be making much money in the long run. So dont be scared to get the money in when you have a big hand or dont expect other people to build pots for you.
This is really fascinating. A tale is emerging of a bloke who was useless at poker, & useless at Bankroll Management. As such, skinto was inevitable.
And yet, somehow, out of that mess, he sorted himself out, turned it all round, & now makes a nice little living by sitting at home & playing a game, & a (relatively) high-stakes game at that.
Tell us more about that transition, how you got from A to B?
your sitting in a cash game theres a player constantly raising into you your card dead,is there a point you fight back with a2c or do you jusr re-raise straight away with a2c anyway just to let them know you wont be bullied
thx m8 sean..
When multitabling i would say over time my thought process just got up to speed with how many tables im playing. I had the same thought process when 5 or 6 tabling as i do now when playing 12+tables i just am able to process all the information quicker. What position im in, what the action has been, who's to act after me etc. Sometimes i make mistakes i wouldnt 4 tabling but on the whole i think i play the same.
I find it helps to think through a lot of 'what ifs' aswell like if he calls my bet on the flop am i gonna bet turn, what if he raises? a lot of the time they will fold and its easy but its good to have a plan for the hand if you get put in awkward spots because you can be thinking about this stuff while your making all the standard decisions on the other tables.
Notes are handy for randoms but i dont take notes on regs usually.
I try and play at least 2 hours a day, i usually get to about 3 hours and then i start making more mistakes so usually quit. Im gonna start trying to play at least 5 hours a day but i dont like playing during the day when there arent many tables running. Last month was the highest Cash4Points total ive ever got, 36k, and i played 84 hours last month. Im gonna try and start getting that every month(not this one though).
I support man u.
What book were you reading in Oz?
How much did it help you?
Do you eat porridge now you live in Scotland?
What do you see yourself doing in two years time ? Still grinding away at cash, but making money even quicker ! ?
Or do you have other poker ambitions ?
How quickly can you assess the ability of a newbie on a table ?
Do you regularly review your own play, or only when you have had a poor session ?
Have you ever read the ingredients of salami ?
i usually play somewhere between 60-80 hours a month
It wasnt really books that helped me, I actually remember watching a point where it clicked is when i found a video on 2+2 that someone had posted of themselves playing poker, must have been before youtube was popular cos it took ages to download but just watching someone actually raise, cbet and take down pot after pot was a revelation. I'd read thats the correct strategy but whenever i tried it i still seemed to lose but now i actually had proof that it worked, i could see it with my own eyes. The guy bet with nothing and everyone folded, i was always certain if i bet people would know i had nothing and raise me.. So next time i played i stuck with it and kept cbetting and it started working. now i didnt even have to wait for a hand to make money! Ive realised since then that if you wanna get better, just look at the people who seem to be winning all the money, and try to figure what theyre doing that youre not. Theres always someone better than you no matter how good you thin k you are.
Living in Scotland my diet consists solely of haggis.
My question is: What advice would you give to young players who think they can play the game full time and see poker as a profession?
Your advice above on playing rag aces is golden.
OK, couple of well questions (hope you haven't answered these earlier)
What is the single biggest pot that you have been involved in on Sky and did you win or lose it ?
Is there any current sky cash regular who you really fear and avoid playing with/against ?
(You don't need to name him / her)
Thanks
Bryan
In 2 years time?i will most likely still be grinding away at cash. Hopefully still making good money. Ive not really thought about it tbh, maybe i should set some goals to achieve. Its hard to say what poker will be like in 2 years time though.
Usually if someonee sits down at my table and i dont recognise their name i assume theyre an amateur, you can usually tell straghit away if someones good by how often they raise/3bet/how much they bet. Bad players give themselves away straight away by limping/minraising/calling too much. It only takes a few hands to categorise someone i think, then you can obviously change you opinion if they arent bad or whatever but thats rarely the case.
i review my play in my head but never look at hand histories or anything. Im too lazy. I will usually just go over specific hands that i remember which i feel i played badly and think about what i did wrong and how to prevent it in the future. Or thiink about general overall strategies to turn things which i think, or my opponents think are my leaks, into postives.
i havent read the ingredients. I prefer to be ignorant. Im sure theyre terrible but all that really matters to me is what it takes like. If it tastes ok then im not fussy.